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So Many Men's Rooms, So Little Time
Slate ^ | Sept. 3, 2007 | Christopher Hitchens

Posted on 09/07/2007 8:33:59 PM PDT by Lorianne

Why men like Larry Craig continue to court danger in public places

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: christopherhitchens; craig; downlow; foottapping; hitchens; larrycraig; widestance
The brevity of the excerpt will be apparent if you read the article.
1 posted on 09/07/2007 8:34:02 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne

The thought of seeking a cheap, meaningless, temporary thrill in a public restroom has honestly never occurred to me; however, I would like to think that if I were ever driven to such an act, I’d begin my search in the lady’s room....


2 posted on 09/07/2007 8:37:57 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Lorianne

Bizarre but, I suppose, informative.


3 posted on 09/07/2007 8:40:09 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Lorianne

No appropriate force stoping them?


4 posted on 09/07/2007 8:42:36 PM PDT by kinoxi
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To: Lorianne

Born in Idaho, but reared in Minnesota.


5 posted on 09/07/2007 8:43:01 PM PDT by umgud
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To: Lorianne
Larry Craig...Slime....Hypocrite...Politician.

I’m shocked to see that he is apparently going to be the last one to realize these are all equivalent.

Go away and good riddance.

6 posted on 09/07/2007 8:46:24 PM PDT by Radix (Nothing else to do but raise eyebrows and wreak havoc on FR.com)
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To: Cicero

Makes me never what to take a good honest crap in a mens room again.


7 posted on 09/07/2007 8:46:44 PM PDT by CJ Wolf (eeew!)
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To: umgud
Born in Idaho, but reared in Minnesota

I saw a bumper sticker once that read, "Idaho, We don't want our Mountain Men Mounting Men"
8 posted on 09/07/2007 8:47:28 PM PDT by elizabetty (Ron Paul - Because Moonbats Need Choices Too!)
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To: Lorianne

A lot of assumptions are made here, and how many of them are true? As a judge you have to hear both sides. I wonder how many of the articles written have the author being unbiased and seeking both sides before printing. Haven’t seen one yet! So is any of it true? other that the pleading of guilty! Perhaps the cop was lying? Seen that yet? I have to agree with Ben Stein, Gestapo, until I see the facts from court!


9 posted on 09/07/2007 8:48:23 PM PDT by gbs
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To: Lorianne
Why men like Larry Craig continue to court danger in public places

Strange question coming from Slate when they could have just phoned David Brock for some insight.

10 posted on 09/07/2007 8:51:11 PM PDT by RoadKingSE
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To: elizabetty

Gud one!


11 posted on 09/07/2007 8:57:48 PM PDT by umgud
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To: RoadKingSE
other that the pleading of guilty

yes, there is that little thing.

12 posted on 09/07/2007 8:58:34 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for SSgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: gbs
You will never see "facts in court." Remember that Craig pleased guilty, precisely to avoid a trial. I worked with Craig on a major conservative issue (Balanced Budget Amendment) for about a decade.

The signs were there. I added it all up, as soon as I heard about the Minnesota arrest. Craig's been doing this for decades. He just finally got caught. (Actually, he was caught two decades ago, but he lied his way out of it. Happened at the same time as the Studds matter.)

Craig wasn't railroaded or tricked. He was simply caught.

Congressman Billybob

Latest article, "Support the National Party of the United Race?"

13 posted on 09/07/2007 9:08:47 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (2008 IS HERE, NOW. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: gbs

other than the pleading of guilty. . . Did you really intend that phrase?


14 posted on 09/07/2007 9:18:51 PM PDT by healy61
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To: Congressman Billybob

Should I believe you? Why? If I am to, then that can mean that what ever is put in print is true. And would you want me to believe that? I don’t think you do. Sooo, a conundrum, I am at the end of the table, unbiased, I have read numerous articles on the “Larry Craig” debacle. (Oh by the way, I don’t care about him one way or the other). So speak your factual piece, which I am sure is documented and backed by reputable sources. And would those sources stand up to scrutiny.


15 posted on 09/07/2007 9:20:22 PM PDT by gbs
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To: healy61

Yes I did.


16 posted on 09/07/2007 9:25:25 PM PDT by gbs
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To: Congressman Billybob

Take your time on the reply. I’m going to bed, it’s 9:34PM here in Seattle, I’ll read your reply and respond tomorrow.


17 posted on 09/07/2007 9:35:53 PM PDT by gbs
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To: gbs

Amen. Gestapo is right.


18 posted on 09/07/2007 9:41:14 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: Congressman Billybob

WHat were the signs you saw?


19 posted on 09/07/2007 9:42:21 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: gbs
Let's just put it this way. Over the years I spent in Washington, I learned a lot about many people. Some of that would destroy lives, if it came out. Therefore, it will not come out from me, except where it concerns someone who made it a public issue, because of his position. That is Craig's position.

Parts of what I know was reported, though not taken as true, in small articles in ancient newspapers. Anyone can find those references and decide whether they are believable, now. But the other part, what I know from talking to people and listening to them, what about that?

I am not going to damage other people to "prove" my point. Believe me, or don't believe me, based on the reputation I have built here over the last decade. But do not ask me to betray confidences and harm people who did not ask for it. That's where I stop.

I hope that's satisfactory for you. I have nothing more to add.

Congressman Billybob

Latest article, "Support the National Party of the United Race?"

20 posted on 09/07/2007 9:44:51 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (2008 IS HERE, NOW. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: Lorianne

I read the first part of the article but quickly felt like I needed to wash myself with a harsh abrasive soap and a wire brush.


21 posted on 09/07/2007 9:45:59 PM PDT by Rembrandt (We would have won Viet Nam w/o Dim interference.)
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To: Congressman Billybob

You wrote: “Craig wasn’t railroaded or tricked. He was simply caught.”

I agree with you, in the extent that Craig is guilty as charged, and likely a habitual offender as Hitchens has described the type.

However, I wonder if he was, in the Union Square incident, not tricked but stalked.

I’ve been suspicious about the motives of the gay man who claimed to have hooked up with Craig in the Union Square bathrooms, then turned around and immediately went to Michael Rogers and ‘reported’ the incident.

Michael Rogers, after all, contacted ex-interns and put them up (in my opinion) to flirting on line with Rep. Foley. It would not be outside his capability to engage a ‘hunky’ gay man to follow Craig into the men’s room.

The story as Rogers’ tells it, that the gay man just happened to realize that it was Craig and happened to know to contact Rogers, beggers belief. It’s akin to the person who just happened to pick up Newt Gingrich’s car phone conversation on a 2 way scanner and ‘happened’ to turn over the tape to the democrats.


22 posted on 09/07/2007 10:08:12 PM PDT by WL-law
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To: Lorianne

That was informative. It explains why the cop said Craig’s left hand was visible as the wedding band is apparently seen as an added bonus to those involved in such encounters.


23 posted on 09/07/2007 11:00:40 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Pope to politicians: "(Do) not to allow children to be considered as a form of illness.")
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To: Lorianne
Next time you hear some particularly moralizing speech, set your watch. You won't have to wait long before the man who made it is found, crouched awkwardly yet ecstatically while the cistern drips and the roar of the flush maddens him like wine.

This seems to be the depressing truth. When I hear someone who spends a lot of time going on about the evils of homosexuality, I have to wonder why he's so interested in the subject in the first place.
24 posted on 09/08/2007 1:31:13 AM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: Lorianne
Larry was on the " down low ", yo, word!

Frequently Asked Questions About The Down Low

25 posted on 09/08/2007 4:31:24 AM PDT by csvset
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To: Lorianne
That's why I'd rather walk into the woods and pee on a tree. Keeps me away from the perverts. I hate public rest rooms, they are smelly, dirty and weirdos hang out in them. Urinating in them is bad enough. But a bowel movement? I'd rather spend three hours in a bed with Madeline Albright than to squat on a public toilet. In the rare occasions that my bowels leave me no other choice, I put at least five layers of toilet paper around the stupid thing and try to get it all out in about 60 seconds. Sometimes the toilet won't even flush afterwards. And what is it with bathroom graffiti on the stalls? Is every male in the world except me obsessed with receiving oral sex from some guy named Bob? And do all the phone numbers written on those stall walls actually get called? I shudder just to think about it.

Then washing up is just as disgusting. There is always a pubic hair in the sink. How does it get there? I don't want to know. Even washing your hands in a reasonably clean sink, you get a dirty, unclean feeling in those places. I usually grab a napkin to touch the door handle on the way out so I don't re-contaminate myself. Then what do I do with the napkin once out of the rest room? They should put a wastebasket just outside the men's room door for this purpose.

Public rest rooms are sheer hell. Anybody "cruising" for sex in such a filthy, degraded environment deserves whatever happens to them. They should lock them all up and throw away the key. Then maybe we'll have reasonably clean public rest rooms.

26 posted on 09/08/2007 4:56:20 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (I am 79 days away from outliving Freddie Mercury)
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To: gbs

While you’re waiting for the Congressman to respond, you ought to read the police report as well as the transcript of Craig’s statement to police. I have and it’s available on-line. I’ll tell you, if I came out of airport bathroom stall and a poiceman told me I was under arrest, my immediate response would be a demand to know what for. Interestingly, that wasn’t Craig’s response; in fact, I think you’ll find his response supports Hon. Billybob’s conclusion. You sound like someone who wants to be informed of all the facts before making a conclusion, so I’d say get busy reading. Cordially, A.


27 posted on 09/08/2007 4:58:30 AM PDT by Ahithophel (Padron@Anniversario)
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To: SamAdams76

McDonalds always has the cleanest bathrooms!


28 posted on 09/08/2007 4:59:01 AM PDT by Paulus
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To: Ahithophel

make that “policeman”


29 posted on 09/08/2007 4:59:50 AM PDT by Ahithophel (Padron@Anniversario)
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To: Paulus

Yuck. I disagree. They’re nasty.

However, McDonalds restaurants in Europe look like you could perform brain surgery in there. They’re antiseptic!


30 posted on 09/08/2007 9:18:47 AM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Congressman Billybob

“Some of that would destroy lives, if it came out.”

After reading that I had several thoughts. 1: that it’s good you left because knowing things could “destroy your life”. 2: that that comment just reinforces my and many others opinions of the so called elected officials that make law in this country. 3: that having to live with this knowledge would compromise your own values and morals. Which leads me to believe that it takes a saint to stay clear of all the corruption. What a mess!
I have to admit that what you say is persuasive, I am leaning a lot harder towards the belief that Craig is a pervert, but also feel that he created his own bed and now lies in it. No compassion for him here, but the way the police handled him was questionable too. All of this is disgusting!
Take care Billybob, I wish you good nights of sleep knowing the things you live with!


31 posted on 09/08/2007 11:23:33 AM PDT by gbs
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To: Ahithophel

I have read what you suggest> But I also know that with the past several years of corruption in just the GOP that even the slightest inuendo of questionable behavior by a senator or congressman could cause a ton of fear for someone in that position(guily or not). Don’t get me wrong here, perverts and corrupt politicians have NO BUSINESS representing us. But witch hunts do us no good either.
He said he was guilty to one charge and that he would leave, I hope he does what he says, just to realize some vestige of dignity. Corruption is so rampant now that the cry of wolf brings almost instant guilt. But these politicians have created the world they live in. Sad state of affairs!


32 posted on 09/08/2007 11:38:24 AM PDT by gbs
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To: gbs
I did not say "things that would destroy my life." I was referring to others. This is not just a matter of strange sexual habits.

For instance, as a lawyer I have read the autopsy records for two sisters whose Mother I represented. She asked never to see those records, and I kept them from her. When you have survived 64 years, and you've paid attention to the people around you, you acquire information you'd rather not know.

But there is no way to unring a bell. What you know, you know. Lastly, this is not a product of Washington culture -- thought there is more corruption, pound for pound, there than in the small town I live in now.

But, there are secrets here, too. When you develop a pattern of listening to other people with care, information flows downhill. It just happens. In a few instances, I've found out about the end of stories which began two or three decades ago.

Recently, I've made friends with two retired doctors who live in Highlands, NC. We're in a writing group together, and they are founts of incredible stories. We always change the names and stories, not to protect the innocent, but to protect the guilty.

I am certain that all professionals who have spent a career dealing with other people, have collected a box full of stories like these. It goes with the territory. And the process of learning to be a lawyer, or doctor, etc., includes learning to process that information. When the burden gets too heavy, you walk away.

A good friend of mine spent decades working as an EMT for a Volunteer Fire Department. Then, they answered a call for an auto accident where a mother had inexplicably made a sudden turn into the path of a tractor trailer. She and three of her children were killed on the spot. One was cut out of the wreckage in critical condition.

That day, he resigned from the Fire Department. He walked away when he knew he needed to. If I ever reach that point, I will do the same with no regrets. Until then, this is just part of my ordinary life.

That's a long response to a post on FR, but you raised a very thoughtful point.

John / Billybob

33 posted on 09/08/2007 11:53:34 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (2008 IS HERE, NOW. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: Lorianne

Always the master of metaphor, never a slave to style, Hitchens skips down life’s lanes, brush held slyly grand, painting all he sees in even hand.


34 posted on 09/08/2007 12:18:48 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Let me ask you this. If you were younger say, late 30’s early 40’s with higher aspirations in DC and know what you do, would you consider yourself a target? That’s what I meant when I said “things that would destroy your life”, and perhaps in the permanent sense. If so, where would the value be in a life of that, once it reached that point?


35 posted on 09/08/2007 2:34:11 PM PDT by gbs
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To: gbs
I've been threatened with death only once -- by the local Mafia in Baltimore. I kept a loaded shotgun under the sofa in my living room for six months, but I did not change my life in any way. (The man who'd threatened me, committed suicide rather than go to jail for 20 years, and that was the end of that.)

I have never evaluated how I was living my life, based on any threats from other people. That's no way to live, looking over your shoulder all the time.

John / Billybob

36 posted on 09/08/2007 2:54:26 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (2008 IS HERE, NOW. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Fine answer! My father once said to me about living with right and wrong,”that you have to look at yourself every morning in the mirror when you shave, what do you see, a man or a boy?”. I’ve lived pretty well with that philosophy and it’s sounds to me that you have as well. Regards, Gary.


37 posted on 09/08/2007 3:00:54 PM PDT by gbs
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To: Congressman Billybob

Hello. Fellow N. Carolinian here. I have always respected your opinions and your writings.

However, I would like to know what specifics you know about the Senator because I am convinced he was NOT doing what the airport policeman arrested him and implied he was doing, even though he plead guilty to only disturbing the peace and peeping. (Yet he said he was waiting for the guy in the stall next to the cop to get out because he had been waiting and that stall was finally being freed up).

The Idaho Statesman newspaper did an indepth report on the Senator going back 40 years in his life and talking to HUNDREDS of acquaintances of the Senator and they could not come up with what you are saying you know about the Senator.

Maybe they tried to talk to others in the Senate/Congress and they like you would not say anything for the reasons you have mentioned.

But it seems to me if it was common knowledge that Senator Craig had this particular perversion or something similar that many people knew about, that this reporter would have uncovered at least ONE person to make such charges.

He did not.

He found 1 “anonymous” guy who claimed he was “certain” it was Senator Craig who had oral sex with him in a bathroom in Union station - something the Senator firmly denied.

That was the ONLY such charge that ANYBODY in these hundreds interviewed could come up with.

So, with all due respect, and because I am certain all those who are in Congress/Senate are prime targets for blackmail and bribery because of who knows what kind of actions they have done or continue to do (which is why those Hillary owned FBI files have been so effective in keeping certain Congress people “in line” on certain votes).....I really want to know of any specific SUPPORTABLE charges of misconduct by Senator Craig in this type of perversion.

Could you freepmail me any info you know about - you don’t have to say who gave you this information of course - or you can post it here.

I just want the truth.


38 posted on 09/08/2007 4:02:21 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: SamAdams76
Public rest rooms are sheer hell.

Mere relief for many, however some dare to call it 'heaven'


39 posted on 09/08/2007 4:27:13 PM PDT by whatisthetruth
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt
Your review was not thorough enough. As I said, at the time of the Gary Studds disgrace, a black, teenaged page said that Larry Craig had had sex with him. The boy was dismissed as a liar and left Washington in despair. That charge is a matter of public record.

As for what I know that is NOT a matter of public record, I've stated my reasons for not harming any private citizens by saying what I know. That conclusion is final -- not in a post, not in a Freepmail, not in a private conversation. If I am ever under oath and asked a relevant question, I will of course answer it.

That's the end of my discussion of this issue.

John / Billybob

40 posted on 09/08/2007 4:27:22 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (2008 IS HERE, NOW. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Ok, will research more about the page at the time of the Studds affair. Did not know about that charge. Yet I do know that if Sen. Craig did such things, that page would not be the only one so charging him. Look at the Priests who have been uncovered having sex with young people, or at the school teachers. Most of those who have been so charged have had multiple victims, not just one.

You brought up the information you knew - wish you had not mentioned it if you did not want to provide the specifics of the charges others have made.

Either Senator Craig is a criminal pervert or he is not. If he is, he should not be in the Senate and I would be the first to call for him to resign immediately.

But so far I haven’t found anything that is credible to warrant such charges. All rumor, hearsay, innuendo, and some foot tapping in a men’s bathroom in Minnesota!


41 posted on 09/08/2007 4:51:19 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: Lorianne

This whole thing WAS and IS more than I ever wanted to know... I wish IT and HE would just go away.


42 posted on 09/08/2007 4:53:23 PM PDT by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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