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Calif. Gray Whale Shot With Machine Gun
AP ^ | 9/9/07

Posted on 09/09/2007 6:30:36 AM PDT by Mr. Brightside

Today: September 09, 2007 at 5:5:7 PDT

Calif. Gray Whale Shot With Machine Gun

NEAH BAY, Wash. (AP) -

An injured California gray whale was swimming out to sea Saturday after being shot with a machine gun off the western tip of Washington state, officials said.

Coast Guard Petty Officer Kelly Parker said five people believed to be members of the Makah Tribe shot and harpooned the whale Saturday morning. The extent of the whale's injuries were not immediately known.

Tribe members were being held by the Coast Guard but had not been charged, said Mark Oswell, a spokesman for the law enforcement arm of the National Marine Fisheries Service.

A preliminary report said the whale was shot with a .50-caliber machine gun, Oswell said.

Coast Guard officials created a 1,000-yard safety zone around the injured whale, which was shot about a mile east of Neah Bay in the Strait of Juan de Fuca. The whale had begun heading to sea Saturday afternoon, Oswell said.

Although the tribe has subsistence fishing rights to kill whales, Oswell said preliminary information indicates the whale may have been shot illegally.

"We allow native hunts for cultural purposes. However, this does not appear to be of that nature so far," he said.

The Makah Tribe has more than 1,000 members and is based in Neah Bay.

A call to tribal officials was not immediately returned on Saturday. Tribal Chairman Ben Johnson told The Seattle Times that the tribe has been seeking an exemption from the federal Marine Mammal Protection Act so that it could take up to five gray whales per year. However, Johnson said the tribe had not yet secured that exemption for a new hunt.

--


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: animalcruelty; animalsarepeopletoo; banglist; civildisobedience; coastalenvironment; environment; indiantreatyrights; machineguns; nativeamericans; nukethewhales; whale; whales; whaling
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1 posted on 09/09/2007 6:30:37 AM PDT by Mr. Brightside
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To: Mr. Brightside
The only .50 cal machine gun I know of is the Ma Duce.

An Indian Tribe running around with a boat mounted Ma Duce and the Feds are worried about gun shows?

Of course it could all be bad reporting from the MSM.

2 posted on 09/09/2007 6:35:56 AM PDT by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: Mr. Brightside

The whale has died from it`s wounds as it tried to swim back to sea.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/151452.html


3 posted on 09/09/2007 6:44:25 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: Mr. Brightside
"We allow native hunts for cultural purposes.

 

If a culture involves .50 caliber machine guns it must be a very polite culture

 

4 posted on 09/09/2007 6:44:39 AM PDT by grjr21
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To: grjr21

“We allow native hunts for cultural purposes.”

What a crock. Thats the same copout Japan uses. They do it for “cultural reasons.”


5 posted on 09/09/2007 6:47:23 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: Mr. Brightside
"We allow native hunts for cultural purposes. However, this does not appear to be of that nature so far," he said.

Hmmm -- was a boat mounted 50 cal machine gun part of their cultural history or are those cultural harpoons just too hard to handle???

6 posted on 09/09/2007 6:47:59 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: PeteB570
Of course it could all be bad reporting from the MSM.

Probably a bolt action Barrett .

But the MSM probably figures "50 caliber" equals "machine gun."

7 posted on 09/09/2007 6:58:01 AM PDT by Solitar ("My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them." -- Barry Goldwater)
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To: PeteB570
Of course it could all be bad reporting from the MSM.

The last pictures I saw they were using one of the five shot semi-auto's currently made in Tennessee.

8 posted on 09/09/2007 7:11:17 AM PDT by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: Solitar
Probably a bolt action,

Link to M107 semi-auto

Barrett .http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_M107,,00.html

9 posted on 09/09/2007 7:19:51 AM PDT by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: Mr. Brightside

“We allow native hunts for cultural purposes.”

What a joke they have not received a whaling permit in five years by the IWWC


10 posted on 09/09/2007 7:21:18 AM PDT by Shots
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To: Mr. Brightside

I could write a book called ‘Why I hate people’.


11 posted on 09/09/2007 7:24:09 AM PDT by Fawn (http://www.brightlion.com/InHope/InHope_en.aspx)
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To: Fawn

“I could write a book called ‘Why I hate people’.”

I am with you Fawn... not all people... but enough of them that it boggles the mind.

LLS


12 posted on 09/09/2007 7:28:18 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Support America, Kill terrorists, Destroy dims!)
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To: grjr21

“If a culture involves .50 caliber machine guns it must be a very polite culture”

I lived in Alaska for many, many years. The thing that always got me about “native culture” hunting and gathering is/was how the natives will scream about their right to hunt, fish and gather becuase of tradition, but will use every mondern method to make it easier. It is all B.S.


13 posted on 09/09/2007 7:30:09 AM PDT by Bogtrotter52 (Reading DU daily so you won't hafta)
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To: Fawn
I love people, but then they wander into my field of vision....or speak.
14 posted on 09/09/2007 7:30:57 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: chessplayer
"What a crock. Thats the same copout Japan uses. They do it for “cultural reasons.”"

Nonsense. It is in their culture. You just don't like it.

15 posted on 09/09/2007 7:33:11 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets
Nonsense. It is in their culture. You just don't like it.

So you don't have a problem with Michael Vick because dog fighting is part of his "culture"?

16 posted on 09/09/2007 7:35:15 AM PDT by dfwgator (The University of Florida - Still Championship U)
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To: Bogtrotter52
"I lived in Alaska for many, many years. The thing that always got me about “native culture” hunting and gathering is/was how the natives will scream about their right to hunt, fish and gather becuase of tradition, but will use every mondern method to make it easier. It is all B.S."

It is their tradition. The use of improved tools does not change that fact. When they don't eat what they take, then the foundation of the tradition is gone and you'll have a point.

17 posted on 09/09/2007 7:40:24 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: chessplayer

our local paper screwed up the headline - “....Gay Whale”


18 posted on 09/09/2007 7:41:36 AM PDT by ErnBatavia (...forward this to your 10 very best friends....)
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To: dfwgator
"So you don't have a problem with Michael Vick because dog fighting is part of his "culture"?"

Irrelevant. The whaling was traditional in both Japan, and with these natives. The purpose was food and other utilitarian reasons. The natives had a treaty with the US since 1855 to ocntinue the hunt, which they suspended when the whales became endangered. Once the whales were off the list, they sought to hunt them again. Looks like these 5 were just fed up with the BS from the anti-hunting crowd and the 9th circus.

Dog fighting is forcing animals to kill each other to entertain humans. It's not comparable to food.

19 posted on 09/09/2007 7:47:58 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: Mr. Brightside
""We allow native hunts for cultural purposes."

Using that logic, Michael Vick and his compatriots shouldn't have to do jail time. The only requirement is that they should learn to eat a steady diet of Pit Bull.

Quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of this "tribal" and "cultural" thing. How about a little "civilized" for a welcome change.

20 posted on 09/09/2007 7:48:22 AM PDT by davisfh
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To: dfwgator

There is a big different in hunting a whale and fighting dogs.

I recently saw a show on the Travel Channel by Andrew Zimmern. He went to Alaska to show the native cuisine. I have to say that it was the most disgusting food I have ever seen.... And I’ve eaten chicken and pigeon heads, chicken feet, duck tongue and jaw, and beef tendons. When I saw the Alaskan food I actually gagged.

One of the things was whale fat placed in a jar. The jar was shaken until the oils separated. They then let the remaining fat and oil sit in the jar for weeks until it was ripe. They put it on everything. They also ate deserts that looks like about 95% lard mixed with berries and sugar.


21 posted on 09/09/2007 7:50:16 AM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: Bogtrotter52

If they want to adhere to tradition, then they should hunt with spears.
I suspect that Native Americans in the lower 48 would have eventually decimated the buffalo with just horses and rifles. Sorta like fishing with dynamite — or whaling with artillery (not that a 50 cal is artillery, I’m referring to the gun-fired harpoons with explosive heads).


22 posted on 09/09/2007 7:52:58 AM PDT by Solitar ("My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them." -- Barry Goldwater)
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To: Solitar

Im not one of these Peta geeks or wack jobs- but this does not make sense. A 50 cal although formidable is not a whale gun. It would be like becuase my culture has involved deer hunting since I was young to go out with a bb gun or 22 cal hunting. Sure if real real lucky the animal might go down. Most likely its just gonna get pussed up because of wounds and die from complications. They should have just went to the trading post and bought a can of salmon and sat around smoking the friggin peace pipe. Stupid attempt with stupid results. The indians lost in this and the whale. Mostly the whale.


23 posted on 09/09/2007 8:07:31 AM PDT by racnpartsales4u ("His sex organs took the heaviest blow," an unidentified nurse told the newspaper.)
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To: spunkets

You are correct, sir. I don’t like their “culture”. Some “cultures” engage in pedophilia, but we have laws against it. A “culture” is not necessarily equal to others. This is the truth, but you might not like it.


24 posted on 09/09/2007 8:11:03 AM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: grjr21

Article in post #3 above says the initial report of a machine gun was bogus as most of us suspected.


25 posted on 09/09/2007 8:13:29 AM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: racnpartsales4u
Sure if real real lucky the animal might go down. Most likely its just gonna get pussed up because of wounds and die from complications.

You're right about that. This reminds me of a documentary which included the fate of an Orca or Killer Whale which had been shot with a common caliber hunting rifle. Eventually (weeks?) it died from complications.

26 posted on 09/09/2007 8:15:07 AM PDT by Solitar ("My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them." -- Barry Goldwater)
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To: Solitar
"If they want to adhere to tradition, then they should hunt with spears."

There's nothing in their tradition that respects the luddites, or their philosphy.

"I suspect that Native Americans in the lower 48 would have eventually decimated the buffalo with just horses and rifles. "

You be wrong. They hunted the buffalo for food, lodging, clothes, tools and furnature. Their spiritual culture considered the animals sacred and they didn't kill them for the sake of killing.

27 posted on 09/09/2007 8:25:03 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets
They only quit driving buffalo herds off cliffs to get their supplies when the white man brought the horse to the Americas.
28 posted on 09/09/2007 8:33:44 AM PDT by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: racnpartsales4u
"this does not make sense. A 50 cal...

They line speared it first. The traditional way is repeated spearing afterwords. The 50 was used instead of the repeated spearing, because it's much quicker. They didn't finish and retrieve the whale, because the coast guard interfered. Notice the whale died shortly after the coast guard came.

29 posted on 09/09/2007 8:34:10 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: Mr. Brightside
Lock up Geoduck and Crowbar, seize their boats, and charge every Makah with conspiracy; that’s just of starters. These guys really make me sick - they fretted and moaned until they got the OK for their last whale, talking a good game about respect for the prey, bringing back tribal pride, so on and so forth, but when they finally drug the poor creature back to the beach, guys were doing backflips off of it. They cut it up so people could throw the meat away in the privacy of their own homes, and let the rest rot. One old timer got run out of town when she complained. My dad’s 1/4 Arapaho so I’ve got nothing against Indians, but some of those toothless drunks up in Neah Bay might make you think that Phil Sheridan was right.
30 posted on 09/09/2007 8:37:02 AM PDT by stormer
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To: spunkets
You be wrong. They hunted the buffalo for food, lodging, clothes, tools and furnature. Their spiritual culture considered the animals sacred and they didn't kill them for the sake of killing.

Indians are humans -- their individual and tribal selfishness would have overwhelmed their considerations of the animals being sacred and they would have exploited their commons. Even without white Americans involved beyond being a source of rifles and ammo, the Indians would have hunted the buffalo (for food, lodging, clothes, tools and furniture) until there were too few buffalo to support them. That is the all too common population boom during followed by a crash after they decimate their prey.

31 posted on 09/09/2007 8:37:08 AM PDT by Solitar ("My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them." -- Barry Goldwater)
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To: Mr. Brightside

Maybe it was a Dillon Aero M134 minigun...

Watch the video here:

http://dillonaero.com/videos.html

(click on M134 Highlight Reel)


32 posted on 09/09/2007 8:41:05 AM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: spunkets

We live along the Upper Yukon and Indians here ignore everything the feds & state attempts to tell them concerning fish & game. They hunt like they always have, that means no closed season. They use to move seasonally to harvest fish & game but feds took their kids all off them until they started living in permanent villages. Had something to do with land ownership & taxes.

They figure it was the whites that came into their country and screwed it all up. You won’t find 50 bucks of white mans food in any of their cabins, except maybe booze. They really still live off what the land & river provides. Why they are so sensitive to enviro changes as they starve when it occurs. Most us Whites are pretty ignorant about Indians until you have spent a year as only white boy in a village; they you kinda figure them out, see all the good rather than just the bad.

Bottomline is I kinda like how they refuse to adhere to govt law. Without voluntary compliance, govt can’t control anybody. Maybe we could learn a little from them Indians.


33 posted on 09/09/2007 8:44:00 AM PDT by Eska
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace
"I don’t like their “culture”. Some “cultures” engage in pedophilia, but we have laws against it."

Hunting is not comparable to pedophilia.

34 posted on 09/09/2007 8:45:47 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: chessplayer

Are you speaking ill of our Native American brothers?!? Don’t you know they can do no wrong.


37 posted on 09/09/2007 8:53:34 AM PDT by DryFly
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To: Solitar
"Indians are humans -- their individual and tribal selfishness would have overwhelmed their considerations of the animals being sacred and they would have exploited their commons."

That's not true in general. They were more, or less aware of the problems with the commons and took care to farm and use their resources wisely. The fact that they noted the problems caused by the widespread slaughter of the buffalo proves that.

38 posted on 09/09/2007 8:55:41 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: Mr. Brightside; Liberty Valance
Did you notice whether they were using some of those "cop killer" depleted uranium rounds? If they did, then everything in the ocean out there will soon be dead from radiation poisoning. Sarcasm Off
39 posted on 09/09/2007 9:13:05 AM PDT by Brucifer (G. W. Bush "The dog ate my copy of the Constitution.")
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To: spunkets

I think you are correct. This is the usual bs from the media. They probably harpooned it and then tried to use a single shot 50 BMG for the final “put it out of it’s misery” shot.

The media heard or asked what BMG stood for and then had their headline.


40 posted on 09/09/2007 9:14:20 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Hunter '08)
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To: Mr. Brightside
Our Indians in East Texas have given up on harpooning whales and have gone back to the old habits of wanting gambling casino's. We are trying to stop them and force them back into hunting whales and drinking booze. We cannot allow Texas Indians to get back into their casino ways. Who knows what would happen next?

At least when they were killing whales, we were giving them food stamps, housing, education, and free medical care. If they start fending for themselves, they may make their own way into the world. Jeeessshh!

41 posted on 09/09/2007 9:34:06 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: LibLieSlayer; Fawn

LOL, I have to admit that if I get a chance to choose between dog heaven and people heaven, I am going where the dogs go.


42 posted on 09/09/2007 11:07:54 AM PDT by Sender (There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. -Ben Williams)
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To: Mr. Brightside

If they want to kill whales for cultural purposes the OK, but that goes both ways. They have to do it from a canoe or kayak and using nothing more than a spear like their ancestors did.


43 posted on 09/09/2007 11:11:38 AM PDT by BuffaloJack (Before the government can give you a dollar it must first take it from another American)
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To: spunkets; Solitar

“That’s not true in general. They were more, or less aware of the problems with the commons and took care to farm and use their resources wisely. The fact that they noted the problems caused by the widespread slaughter of the buffalo proves that.”

That varied from tribe to tribe. Some were far better and more efficient than others. Those that used the tactics of driving buffalo herds off cliffs for example, killed far more buffalo than they could make use of, resulting in tremendous waste.


44 posted on 09/09/2007 11:33:20 AM PDT by neutronsgalore (Nature, getting rid of Muslims one tsunami at a time.)
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To: Dutch Boy
deserts that looks like about 95% lard mixed with berries and sugar.

Yum. But it will help fuel your internal furnace in the arctic or sub-arctic winter.

45 posted on 09/09/2007 11:47:29 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Mr. Brightside
Although I do not condone what has happened here with this whale, in all honesty, I read more than a few years ago that the Pacific Grey Whale has recovered and is in fact back to the numbers of before it was endangered. Not a good thing but one whale is not a catastrophe.
46 posted on 09/09/2007 11:50:51 AM PDT by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: Solitar
I suspect that Native Americans in the lower 48 would have eventually decimated the buffalo with just horses and rifles.

Not likely, they hunted for food, although they used everything. If they killed all the Bison, what would they eat? The white market hunters killed just for the skins, and sometimes the yahoos on the railroads killed just for fun.

If the Indians numbers increased to the point where the wild Bison populations were threatened, they'd probably have done what other peoples did to other ungulates, domesticate them. They are pretty much like large furry cows anyway.

47 posted on 09/09/2007 11:51:55 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: Sender

I pray to God every day to send me to pet heaven. I’ll clean litter boxes...anything.


48 posted on 09/09/2007 11:54:05 AM PDT by Fawn (http://www.brightlion.com/InHope/InHope_en.aspx)
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To: chessplayer

Shot up to 21 times? With a .50 BMG rifle. I’d say that .50 BMG is not enough gun for gray whale. Once they’d harpooned the beast, they were probably trying to put it out of its misery and/or get it to stop fighting. Sounds like they need a bigger boat, or more boats, the latter is probably the way it was done in the Old Days.


49 posted on 09/09/2007 11:57:14 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: PeteB570

In the article at post #3, it confirms that the initial reports of a machine gun were false. They were using a .50 caliber rifle.


50 posted on 09/09/2007 12:03:16 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson (The Hunt for FRed November. 11/04/08)
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