An electric car no less
Posted on 09/14/2007 1:23:39 PM PDT by COBOL2Java
Just about every month, CNW Market Research meets with a group of would-be car buyers and plays a trick on them.
Sometimes the company, which specializes in auto sales trends, takes a Toyota Camry, removes any identifying logos, and tells them it's a new model from one of the U.S.-based auto makers. Or it takes a domestic car and tells them it's a Toyota or another import make.
Either way, the result is the same. "If they think it's an American car, the perception of the vehicle falls dramatically," said Art Spinella, vice president of the Bandon, Ore.-based firm. "Detroit really gets a bum rap in the U.S."
The main reason import intenders stay away from domestic cars, Mr. Denove said, is that "today's consumer doesn't yet believe the Big Three have improved quality to the point where they are on par with the Japanese manufacturers."
That drives Ford, GM and Chrysler executives crazy. Independent quality studies show they've narrowed the gap with Toyota. Just a few weeks ago, J.D. Power's long-term dependability study reported that GM's Buick brand had tied Toyota's Lexus, which had stood alone on top for the past 12 years.
A Toyota spokesman acknowledged the quality of Detroit's vehicles is closer to Toyota's, but added that Toyota continues to improve its quality as well. "Our problems per vehicle is still going down. It's continuous improvement," the spokesman said.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
The last care I bought was the family minivan. We looked at the domestic lineup and then Toyota and Honda. The domestics just weren’t in the same league. Sad but true.
They need to hire better designers and engineers and keep them.
A would be car buyer can’t tell a Camry? Where do they get people this stupid?
A lot of the cars look pretty much alike any more. And Camry buyers, generally, as a group, aren’t real car nuts. They’re looking for reliable transportation.
Five years ago I accompanied my wife to a Ford dealer to help her choose a car. The salesman asked if I wanted to see the engine. Sure, why not? The he had big trouble getting the hood up, due to a hood latch defect. My wife said, “Let’s go. If they can’t get a simple latch right, what about the rest of the car?”. That day she bought a Honda which has served her very well.
The US companies should continue to improve their quality. But if they really want attention they should put much longer warranties on their cars. Maybe 7 years/100,000 miles would be a good number. If the car is well built it won't cost the car company much. If not, then maybe it is time to go back to the drawing board.
One problem I think the US companies have is too many car lines. If GM wants to keep differentiation between Cadillac, Buick, Saturn, Chevy (and whatever else they still have) they can't make the Chevy as good as the Cadillac even if it just simple stuff like using a 10 cent seal which fails after a few years instead of a 1 dollar seal that lasts forever. That leaves a bad impression with future buyers. I was worried that the Japanese companies were going down that path when Acura, Infiniti and Lexus came out.
For Ford: "Quality is Job One" - this time we really mean it!
For GM: "Drive a GM car today! It's not as sucky as you might think!"
For Chrysler: "OK, the Germans ditched us. But it wasn't our fault!"
My gripe to them was, I WANT to buy a GM and move away from Toyota and you offer me nothing and the guy that doesn't want to buy GM gets 2k. Very frustrating.....
My current vehicle, an ‘04 Chrysler Concorde, has 110,000 on it and I’ve had no problems, other than having to have the brake rotors turned once. My last vehicle was an ‘07 Dodge Dakota which I bought new and sold with 255,000 miles on it, and I think I replaced the water pump once and had the tranny rebuilt at around 220,000. I think Japanese quality and engineering are awesome, but the US car companies have come a LONG way since the ‘80s.
My 2000 Ford died last summer at 84K. In hind sight the probles surface following the 60K checkup.
I now have a Honda. Will never own another American car made by UAW’s.
The test would be to check resale values for recent models. If the US/Jap spread is still wide, that’s all you need to know.
255,000 miles on an 07? You must drive a lot.
NURSING AMBITIONS In Shift, Auto Workers Flee to Health-Care Jobs
...Those benefits have made Detroit's labor costs the highest in the auto business: The three makers estimate that unionized workers cost them more than $70 an hour, factoring in benefits and retirement, compared with $40 to $45 for Honda and Toyota. Health-care costs alone increase the price of Detroit-brand vehicles by as much as $1,000 to $1,500 compared with a U.S.-made Toyota, they estimate.
Note to the Big Three: I ain't paying for that.
A recently deceased friend was absolutely “Buy American” but staunchly anti-union. When I showed him my new Honda Element, he turned his nose up at that “Japanese piece of #%&!.” When I told him it was built in Marysville, Ohio by non-union American workers, he didn’t know what to think.
Every time I buy a new vehicle, I always give American cars a try. I haven’t bought a new American car since 1991.
But I’ll give ‘em another chance when the Honda drops dead.
should have been ‘97. Sorry.
traitors
Maybe he meant 1907
:-)
“Where do they get people this stupid?”
They use Oprah’s magazine subscriber and viewer lists, I believe.
An electric car no less
Competition works. Labor needs it too.
I still have the old one, too -- with 325,000 miles on it.
Competition works. Labor needs it too.
The same truth can be applied to our public schools...
Yep. A union's a union.
You hit on the other factor, design, that isn’t in the survey.
I like my 2001 2-wheel drive which I bought for an excellent price just as it was coming off the the 36,000 mile warranty. Paid for an extended to 100,000 miles which I used only for a water pump and for an A/C sensor. Now at 117,000 and the driver-side door power lock actuator and fuel gauge are acting up. At seven years old, still get between 16 and 18 mpg which for a full-size P/U is good. Get to drive at 70-75 mph on the roads out here and is very comfortable. I may retire before I buy another P/U, but if I did, I'd get a new Silverado with the active fuel management (shuts down four-cylinder firing if not needed).
Why not just take your friend to the dealer with you. Use his coupon, buy and title the vehicle in your name, pay your friend $200 for his time and take he and his wife to dinner.
Not hardly, unless it's a very, very early hybrid!! (Notice the hand crank in front and the text says it has dual carbs.)
The Japs give better customer service at U.S. dealerships than do the Big 3 U.S. carmakers.
One time I told a guy here that I had a W02 sticker on my car. Oops should have been W04. Anyway I bet it had a 318. My 92 Dakota had around 179,000 on it and was still running good when Katrina took it away from me. My current 95 or 96 Dakota, can’t remember which year it is, has around 110,000 on it but it has one of those Magnum V6’s in it. Seems to be doing fine.
Yep! The 318 is a tough little motor.
I’ve suspected this for a long time. I recently bought a new car and had narrowed it down to four vehicles, the Toyota Camry, The Honda Accord, the Hyundai Sonata and the Ford Fusion.
I ruled out the Camry because I’m sick to looking at them and their indifferent handling. The Honda Accord scored an A- and I liked it a whole lot (but I do not like the bloated new 2008 styling). The Hyunda Sonata is everything the Accord is and possibly a little more. The resale is not yet there but I believe it will come along as more people look at and drive them. There is a lot of car there. I had previously looked at about three Fusions and ruled it out as my wife didn’t like the dash. Drove into the big city to take a good long test drive of both the 2007 Accord and Sonata. Liked them both just fine and the prices were quite competitive. Frankly, I really couldn’t make up my mind. The Sonata’s trunk mechanism is superior to the Honda but the Honda’s resale and bulletproof reputation is indisputable. On the way back home I decided to drive by the local Ford dealership and just take one final look. That day a new 2008 Fusion SEL rolled off the transport that caught my eye and the 2008 incorporated some previous options now standard in the base price. Looked at the sticker and called the dealer to let me drive one one more time.
Guess which one I bought. I’ve had it for three weeks now and 1100 miles. No regrets.
Until one of the Japanese auto makers comes out with a muscle car I will be taking a serious look at the new Challenger SRT-8 and Camaro SS.
Greedy american Unions...........killed the US auto industry
The same place they get the salesmen. Who often have the same problem.
Car dealers really hate it when the customer knows more about what they're selling than they do. ;-)
Japanese car owner since '72, married into a GM family.
Impressed with American improvements (from wretched mid-70s Fords to fair late-90s GM), but am sticking with Japanese cars, which I generally retire at 250k miles. After 30 years of driving Hondas am letting go of same because it costs way too much to maintain their cars. They gouge, I go -- and it will be a long time until I return, if ever.
Suzuki (Geo) my transport right now. Approaching 140k miles, a rough point where multiple things fail, they're being tested. If they pass the test, I'll stay with them for years (and maybe another mini-SUV, because they got this one right). If they don't...
Your statement is correct, just not broad enough in its scope. I enhanced your post a bit.
I use rentals on business travel, invariably domestic and they’re ok. The issue isn’t initial quality so much as reliability and durability.
In 1992, the two most popular cars in America were the Taurus and Camry. How many 1992 Tauri are still on the road?
We recently took delivery of an ‘07 Outlook and got the $1000 incentive because the ‘08s had just come out. Shopped foreign and domestic in the SUV/crossover class, looking to replace out beloved Durango that got totaled in an accident. The Saturn won hands down.
I believe GM has a real winner in their new Lambda platform. Very good power (Cadillac DOHC V-6) and road manners, comfort, and the fit and finish is impeccable, probably the best I’ve seen in a GM vehicle. As it has broken in, the mpg is approaching that listed on the “real world” EPA window sticker. I aim to surpass that with a K&N air filter and switching to synthetic oil after 1000 miles. BTW, the Outlook was thousands less than the sister Lambdas GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave.
“Until one of the Japanese auto makers comes out with a muscle car I will be taking a serious look at the new Challenger SRT-8 and Camaro SS.”
Why? Do you live in a trailer park?
Are you as ignorant as you sound? The new Challenger SRT-8 and Camaro SS will cost in excess of $40k.
I love my 2002 Silverado 3500 dually Extended cab with the 8.1 (496 CID) engine 4x6 that has been customized heavily with all lights LED, 6 HID lamps in the headlights and fog lights, Pioneer sound system and of course the truck was fully loaded with heated seats and accessories from the instrument panel and outside dimmable mirrors from an Escalade. There is a lot more items like sequential LED lights under the tailgate and numerous show truck items from my years when I built custom show cars.
Exactly. I purchased a Ford in the 80s back during the "Quality is Job One" ad campaign. Actually believed their claim. The engine developed problems after about a year (yes, I followed maintenance procedures). Got rid of it after three years of "Fix Or Replace Daily". Went next for a Toyota that gave me 10 years of reliable service.
In the 90s, I fell for the Saturn advertising (a "new" company, built new from the ground up) and got an SW2. Engine was fine, but it was plagued by electrical problems after about a year.
Replaced it with another Toyota, and I ain't looking back. EVER.
In fairness, my daughter had a 2001 Corrolla that had a leaky oil pump that led to a wrecked engine. Bernardi Toyota (Framhingham, MA) stood tall and rebuilt it. (I personally think she may have been doing 75 with the red “OIL” light on, but Toyota took the hit.) A lot of Corollas had the same problem, most of the owners probably got them fixed before disaster struck, i.e., fixed the leak before the engine blew up.
By the way,the price is why I went with Saturn because the GMC Acadia was always pricing out at about 1200 more no matter how I did it. FWIW...I went with White Diamond Tri-coat,advanced audio,19" polished wheels and captains chairs/cloth.
Thanks for proving my point. If these car buyers are looking for reliable transportation, then chances are they are doing some research.
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