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Posted on 09/15/2007 2:40:29 PM PDT by UKrepublican
MADELEINE: 'BODY THROWN INTO THE SEA'
Police fear that the body of Madeleine McCann will never be found and only a confession by her parents can convict them of killing her.
The startling revelations came as officers told of their worries that her body was dumped far out to sea in a bag weighted down with stones. Detectives are convinced she is dead and believe her remains are now gone for ever, a vital piece of missing evidence which seriously weakens their case against Kate and Gerry McCann.
For the first time, police chiefs in Portugal are admitting that the allegedly damning DNA evidence they have gathered in the couple’s apartment and hire car may not be enough to bring charges against them. A senior source in the Policia Judiciaria, which has led the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine on May 3, 135 days ago, said only a confession could now bring a conviction.
Investigators believe the body of the youngster, who would now be four years old, was most probably thrown off a British-owned yacht out at sea after being moved from a hiding place. They are now working on the theory that Kate and Gerry McCann, both 39-year-old doctors, received help from accomplices to move the body and cover up the crime, despite intense scrutiny.
The seven friends on holiday with the McCanns at the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz are expected to be questioned again by detectives investigating the accomplice theory. All the friends deny any wrongdoing.
The news came amid startling developments yesterday, including the apparent discovery of blood in an apartment next door to that used by the McCanns. Detectives believe the apartment holds the key to where Madeleine’s body could have been stored in the hours after she went missing.
The discovery was revealed after reports claimed that Madeleine died following an overdose of sedatives. Police are working on the theory that the youngster was repeatedly drugged by her parents – an allegation Kate and Gerry McCann vehemently deny.
Detectives have asked British forensic experts to look for evidence the toddler was given pills on the night she disappeared and earlier occasions.
As Kate and Gerry McCann left their £600,000 home in Rothley, Leics, for a meeting with their solicitors in London, a senior Policia Judiciaria officer told of his misgivings about the case. The officer, who declined to be named, revealed that the absence of a body meant detectives only had forensic evidence and information from interrogations to build a case.
The admission comes only two days after the McCanns went on the offensive after being named official suspects, issuing a challenge to detectives: “Find the body and prove we killed her.”
The senior officer in the Policia Judiciaria admitted that the McCanns’ stance could destroy the case because detectives have “nothing concrete”. He admitted officers were still struggling to piece together events on the afternoon and evening of May 3. In particular, detectives have so far been unable to uncover the chain of events from 2pm until 10.41pm when the police were eventually called after Kate McCann said her daughter was missing.
“There are a lot of clues, signs and indications, but without more elements it’s impossible for us to determine what happened in those vital hours,” the officer said. “Even if the blood and traces gathered in the car or the apartment were confirmed to correspond 100 per cent to the little girl’s DNA, that wouldn’t prove anything.
“Those elements could only confirm – and at the moment we don’t even have that – that the little girl was in the apartment, which is plainly obvious, and in the car. In either of the cases, nothing would prove homicide, just that the body of the little girl had been transferred in the vehicle.”
The officer admitted that a number of fundamental questions remained to be answered, confirming the views of the McCanns’ high-powered legal team that the Portuguese authorities are a long way from presenting a strong case.
The officer went on: “We don’t know if Madeleine is dead and, if she is, how it all happened. Was she strangled? Could she have been beaten? They are all questions only the parents could clarify in an eventual confession.”
Kate and Gerry McCann strenuously reject claims of being involved in Madeleine’s death and disposing of her body, and challenged detectives on Wednesday to find their daughter and prove they killed her. A close friend said: “The legitimate question to ask Portuguese police is: Where is the body? Where is the evidence that Madeleine is dead?”
The case against the McCanns detailed in a dossier now before Judge Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias appears to rest mainly on potentially damaging forensic test results. These are said to include Madeleine’s DNA in traces of bodily fluid, as well as a mass of hair, discovered in the McCanns’ hire car which was rented 25 days after she vanished.
Portugal’s attorney general has indicated the investigation still has some way to go and suggested stricter bail conditions could be imposed on the couple. On Tuesday public prosecutor Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses ordered the 10 police files in the case to go before the judge.
In an effort to find a body, it is expected that fresh searches will be ordered in Praia da Luz, focusing on areas where roadworks were taking place when Madeleine disappeared. Officers are also expected to begin searching several sea-front locations, including caves and grottoes.
Police have already investigated a vessel owned by an English sailor in Lagos, 15 minutes’ drive from Praia da Luz. A source close to the case said: “One of the most credible possibilities would involve the body having been thrown in a sack of stones from a yacht.”
The yacht which came under police scrutiny was investigated after a computer owned by the only other suspect, expat Robert Murat, 33, was analysed and found to mention the sailor. Other theories suggest Madeleine’s body was disposed of at one of several waste incinerators.
The McCanns have already been advised by their British lawyers that the Portuguese would have difficulty prosecuting them if they do not find their daughter’s body. Portuguese police admit they fear no judge will allow the case to go to court without that key piece of evidence.
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If the parents killed Madeleine, why wouldn't they kill her siblings?
Suspect that they were stupid to go off to have tapas without getting a babysitter, but that they didn't murder their own child.
I was under the assumption that the dna taken from the body fluids found in the trunk of the car would divulge proof that the child was deceased when placed in the car.
Nobody knows if the child was murdered. But it was rumored [never proven] that the parents, both doctors, sedated the children to keep them quiet while they went out.
Nobody knows if the child was murdered. But it was rumored [never proven] that the parents, both doctors, sedated the children to keep them quiet while they went out.
Oh, and that Madeleine over dosed.
The theory is they may have accidently overdosed her with sleeping pills.
There was a childminding services - which they never used.
There’s plenty of reason to suspect them.
I have a feeling they had something to do with it, but I have a feeling it was an accident that they/or one of them has covered up.
I think this is weird: “The admission comes only two days after the McCanns went on the offensive after being named official suspects, issuing a challenge to detectives: ‘Find the body and prove we killed her.’”
Find the body? If it were my child and I didn’t murder him or her, I’d be so insulted that the police were narrowing the investigation and concluding that she was dead. If I didn’t kill this little girl and I had nothing else to go on, I’d be thinking Madeleine was maybe still alive. I wouldn’t be able to bring myself to tell someone, “Find the body.”
There’s a lot of speculation.
Rumour is that alot her hair was found in the boot, right in the spare tyre compartment.
“body was disposed of at one of several waste incinerators. “
Tossed in the sea? Incinerators?
wow , they really have it narrowed down.
PS - why would they wait 30 days to dispose of the body? why dont they test the other kids for the same sedative which presumably they also would have been administered.
I haven’t followed this case that closely up to now, but have the parents volunteered to take (or taken) a lie detector test?
To me, this is one of the scenarios that makes the most sense to me. I don’t think the parents killed the child on purpose - it seems logical to me that she might have accidentally died from an overdose of drugs given to her to make her sleep while they went off and had dinner. Because they are doctors, they realized that an autopsy would show this to be the cause of death & they decided to hide the body and report that she was “missing”. If friends helped them, then that would explain why the girl’s body wasn’t found during a search after the police were called.
That makes sense to me, because the parents obviously weren’t candidates for “Parents of the Year” by leaving 3 very young children alone while they went out to dinner with friends. It makes more sense than any other explanation does.
Appreciated. Your information does explain how they could have unintentionally killed their kid—and now they’re not brave enough to own up to it.
That is the disconnect that I see in the story.
By hiding the body for a month and disposing of it elevates the crime. I’m having a hard time imagining it.
That does seem strange, and doesn’t look good for the parents (challenging the detectives to find a body). Parents should hope that their child is still alive if there is a chance of that, and even if they are extremely cynical, they should want the return of their child’s body for burial or cremation (seems popular in the UK—solely from BBC readings).
I have heard on FR that they refused a polygraph. But I have not read it yet in the news.
Yeo - You’ve got to consider also - it would have to be an extraordinary coincidence that their child is snatched on the ‘apparently’ onwe night they leave them alone (oh and left the door unlocked and all the other locks in the apartment):
Either
a) A tragic coincidence that some sicko stumbles upon their unlocked apartment and home alone children
b) Some sicko has actively stalked them and taken advantage of their stupidity.
I just can’t believe that is what happened.
- Why were the doors unlocked?
Why did she clean that toy? (phycologists say most parents wouldnt’ - because they want the smell of their child nearby)
- Why did she straight away say ‘someone has taken my child’
- Also, why did it take nearly 40 mins for them to call the police?
That’s the tip of the iceberg for me.
It just doesn’t add up, and our media has been kissing ass for too long and not asking these tough questions.
It seems no other (outside of the family) DNA was found in her bed, and the only reported dna that has been found is in a hire car they used AFTER she dissapeared, reportedly in the boot.
More than likely they would lose their other children.
That’s an overwhelming motive, IMO.
They really don’t have a clue what happened, do they.
That's an admission of guilt in my book.
Selfish beyond words.
Excellent point!
What a crock. The corrupt Portugese police using rumor and innuendo to deflect their own imcompetence.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=461111&in_page_id=1770
The detective leading the hunt for Madeleine McCann has sensationally been charged over his conduct in another missing child case.
Goncalo Amaral, head of the regional Judicial Police, is one of five officers accused over the beating-up of a suspect during questioning.
[dna taken from the body fluids found in the trunk of the car would divulge proof that the child was deceased ]
To my knowledge, DNA provides no indication of life/death status.
But the article says the hair was found in a car not rented until 25 days after the girl disappeared...where could they hide a body for a month? They would have had to have access to a freezer.
It is bothersome that the mother reportedly said that "they took her". Most people would probably say 'missing' or 'we can't find her', indicating some sort of search.
The rental car stuff makes no sense. Very strange indeed.
You are exactly right. Same reaction I had. They are covering something.
I don’t believe anything the police say in this case. They assume so much with questionable proof...
They don’t seem to consider that this child very well could have been snatched as part of a child dirty deeds ring..
Can we say Aruba? Smacks of the same degree of bungling.
One theory is that they used the church some how.
They were granted 24 hour access to the place - often on their own.
I’ve no idea how they did it, and a part of me still wants to believe she is still alive. But the more I learn the more I fear.
And I’ve not jumped on the media band wagon - I had little sympathy for the parents because of my anger at their complete stupidity.
Also there was an idea she was tossed in a sewer hole.
The McCanns went to the press and complained about their incompetence...and it made them furious.
IMO
The truth will come out....it always does.......whoever helped them will talk...or one of them will crack....
Sure, there are people who could find someone, no doubt about it. But I look at those two and... It's just very hard to believe.
Well, you know, strangers. They may harm the children.
HOWEVER, it's possible this challenge was made because they were reacting to the police repeatedly accusing them of murder. Between a sensationalist media and police bound and determined to pin the murder of their child on them, the quote is probably out of context.
When was the last time that someone besides the parents saw the little girl (time lapse between her being seen in public and the time the parents claim she disappeared)?
Any speculation on what the sedative might have been (if at all)? Are we talking high power stuff that might have left a paper trail in procurement? Or over the counter stuff? I don’t know about the UK but in Portugal I think there is pretty good access to strong meds over the counter. If they obtained drugs through their medical practice wouldn’t there be some record of that in the UK?
This whole police scenerio is ridiculous. First if she died of a drug overdose, where do the specks of blood come from? Do you bleed out when you o.d.? Losing your bowels and urinating I would understand, but blood? How did they hide the child that quickly and then let it sit for days? I would imagine the odor from a decomposing body would be pretty strong. I for one know I could never ever in a million years be able to function if I were covering up the death of a child, accidental or not. Family member or friend, it would not matter. I would be a complete wreck and not be able to live with it. You are not going to tell me now that there are multiply people involved in this cover-up, all parents themselves and none of them cracked already. How could a persons own DNA not be a 100% match? I read that the DNA was in the 88% range, that to me would most likely be a relative. These detective seem to me to be grasping at straws.
Well, it's been four months and they've had time to get used to the idea she's dead, so their going on to worry about their own well-being isn't too hard to understand.
And that worry may be justified: the way the Portugese authorities are mentioning both drugs and blood (neither of which follows logically from the other) makes it look like they're desperately manufacturing a case from whatever scraps come to hand.
I just don’t know what to think about all this. I do know that leaving the children alone is unforgivable.
In a month, one could eat a small child. I am not suggesting that this is what happened, just saying...
It's location gives a pretty good indication.
Agreed. Another thing which is glaringly out of place: doctors are generally fairly smart people.
When my son was 3 he hid on me in a grocery store. First I tried to find him, then the workers tried to find him, before it was all said and done, customers left their carts and were going through the parking lots and adjacent stores. I’m not sure how much time went by but it wasn’t the instant that he went missing that we were calling the police. When the store manager started to panic and was dialing the police we found him. My thought was someone took him. How else would you explain a 3 yr. old vanishing?
Two questions -
1) How long did it take to find him?
2) How long before he was able to sit down again?
Since the Portugese police have repeatedly demonstrated incompetence, is it really wise to place any faith in their allged forensic evidience of hair and DNA match.
I’ve read elsewhere that it’s only an 88% match. What does that mean? What’s the margin of error in their testing procedures, how do we know it wasn’t contaminated samples, either negligently or intentionally?
If it was me, I might issue such a challenge as “Find the body and prove it”. It’s apparent that the police have quit looking and are now focused on trying the parents in the court of public opinion hoping to cause a break in the “conspiracy”. The parents have nothing left to motivate the police into doing their jobs except to challenge them in the media.
Madeliene is gone and only Deux ex machina will reveal the truth and it may not be in this temporal reality.
Very good points. The article doesn't say whether the parents confessed to sedating their children....though if that part is true, it shows a rather cavelier attitude toward their children's long term well being. That doesn't mean they murdered their child. Though they could have accidentally caused her death.
It sounds like they were involved in transporting and hiding her body after she went missing. Even though THAT in itself might be provable by the evidence the Portuguese police do have, as this article clearly states, that does not prove murder. (Is there a law against transporting a missing dead child??)
Adding the circumstantial stuff to this forensic evidence, though, it seems the McCanns left a crying, upset 4-year-old girl alone previous nights for their dining pleasure. When the neighbor complained, that might have given them reason to inject or dose the little girl with MORE sleep-inducing meds to give them more peace from the pesky little one who threatened to ruin their tapas and wine. I guess the dose was just right for the twin babies. But they may have overdosed the older girl and she died accidentally.
What kind of “friends” are those who help you move the body??
Anyway, it might not have gone down that way, but if it did, I do hate that these smug murderers know that they have forever gotten away with this. What a reason to die. Not an illness or an accident, but “Mummy and Daddy need their happy hour.” Sheesh.
He’s 15 now and a great kid. With three kids I have only had the pukey feeling twice. That was the first time. One of the customers found him in the produce department under a cart of cantalopes, it had a skirt stapled to it so you couldn’t see underneath it. Talk about bi-polar emotions, on one hand I wanted to spank him silly the other hand I was crying with relief because we found him. I think he was missing for almost 15 minutes. I remember watching a show on child abductions where they talked about a 15 minute window of time to get the police involved and it was approaching the 15 minute mark, cause I was freaking out.
There are just too many unanswered questions in the reporting of this sad story. For example, when was the last time the child was seen by anyone else besides the parents? How do we know that the child was safe and asleep in the room when the parents went to dinner? If the police emphasis is on sleeping pills as the cause of the child’s death, why the focus on blood and blood dna in the hotel room? If the little girl’s body was concealed, where was it concealed? After all, that is a resort and lots of people go just about everywhere all the time! If others helped to conceal the body, why would they have done so? Who would want to step out of ‘ordinary life’ to get involved in that kind of crime? If the body was moved to a secondary location, how was that done unobserved? Surely, the parents were under close watch throughout. No? Why not? If the car rented by the parents showed the girl’s dna in the trunk (boot), how long had it been there? If the parents rented that car 25 days after the girl’s disappearance, where was that car for the 24 days prior to the parents’ rental? And who were the renters of it? Wouldn’t responsible reporting have answered those questions by now?
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