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Climb On Board The 'Ron Paul Revolution'
TheDay ^ | 9/16/2007 | Marc Guttman

Posted on 09/16/2007 8:53:29 AM PDT by NapkinUser

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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

You need to read it again. I wrote, at the end of the comment, that I would NEVER vote for rudi.
I don’t need for you to comment to me again. Have a nice life.


281 posted on 09/16/2007 5:20:05 PM PDT by gate2wire
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To: George W. Bush
But bringing them out of the Reserves when they've chosen to leave the military simply because we have failed to adequately enlarge the size of the military when it was so obviously necessary given the operations we'd already begun in Afghanistan and Iraq isn't exactly kosher either.

1. Does the government have the authority to do this when they decide it's necessary? (One assumes so, else it wouldn't have happened and we wouldn't be talking about this)

2. Are people in the reserves aware of this possibility, or ought they be?

Not sure what else there is to discuss.

Are you one of the reserves who was affected in this way? If not, it would seem we have yet another case of a person doing complaining in inverse-proportion to the effect something's had on him. What is it about Iraq that causes this inverse-complaining anyway?

Our present situation is our own fault.

What "situation"? Anyway, okay, sure, it's our own fault. Not sure what that proves.

Bush and Rumsfeld had years to increase the size of the military and they should have done it at least three years ago.

Oh right, because of that provision in the Constitution that says that the President and Secretary of Defense dictate how big the military shall be. Congress has nothing to do with it. Also, it's very easy to change the size of the military; all the President would have had to do - "three years ago" - would have been to say "Let's make the military have N instead of M people in it" and then it would have happened. And therefore no reserves would have been necessary in Iraq today.

282 posted on 09/16/2007 5:24:26 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: mylife
We all hate war.

Could have fooled me. The way some act, they won't be happy until that part of the world has a big stamp on the map that says USA Approved.

The Muslims started this conflict

They did? I thought it was a terrorist group called Al Qaeda that started this latest battle. Now it's the whole Muslim world? Are we going after the whole Muslim world next? Suppose we have to since they're going to establish a caliphate here pretty soon....

What are they grousing about? they’d still be bedouins had we not showed them they were rich with oil.

'We' didn't show them anything. For the record the a Brit discovered it IIRC. And I'm not exactly sure how you believe they thought they would be 'rich with oil' considering the Brits and the French already had plans by 1916 on how the ME was going to be split up with the oil companies owned for the most part solely by Western companies. Think they should be thankful of the creation of territorial lines that didn't exist before? Damn ungrateful Arabs. The French and the British tried to bring 'civilization' to them and they wanted to throw it off eh? (here's an interactive map of the region if the other one is too hard to understand..)

They want war? I say give them bloody red war

The West has only been mucking about in the region for the past 500 years trying to.....what were they trying to do again, oh yes, 'civilize' them...it just doesn't even cross your mind that perhaps as a people they want to be left alone or treated as perhaps not equals but business partners of a sort.

What is it with nations that believe everyone should act as they do, have the same standards as they do, even down to the same form of government, and its citizenry becomes upset when some in said territory don't want the same?

283 posted on 09/16/2007 5:28:17 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: billbears
The West has only been mucking about in the region for the past 500 years trying to.....what were they trying to do again, oh yes, 'civilize' them...it just doesn't even cross your mind that perhaps as a people they want to be left alone or treated as perhaps not equals but business partners of a sort.

Yes we have been, and it wont end anytime soon. Ron Paul may wish it away but the western world has been embrioled with this since Saladin waged war on the west.

Oh, we have tried to live in peace, but these aholes just dont stop. Hand them their asses

284 posted on 09/16/2007 5:35:22 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: SJackson
BTW, I said General Eisenhower, who marched the civilian population of Europe through the death camps to see what they'd done, after the war was a Chamberlain.

Do you refer to me as having shit-eys because of that, or do you dispute that they were death camps?

I'm disputing that the quote shows that he was "a Chamberlain".

Adios bozo, don't waste by time with soundbites.

If all that Americans want is security, they can go to prison. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

285 posted on 09/16/2007 5:38:38 PM PDT by JTN (If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.)
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To: billbears
What is it with nations that believe everyone should act as they do, have the same standards as they do, even down to the same form of government, and its citizenry becomes upset when some in said territory don't want the same?

Bill, I used to think I knew you. Some society's suck

286 posted on 09/16/2007 5:39:14 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: I see my hands
You're like a Lefty. Just say any stupid thing and believe your 'tude provides substance. Just so you can't say you've never been told.. it doesn't.

You sure do hate getting busted.

287 posted on 09/16/2007 5:40:42 PM PDT by JTN (If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.)
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To: dighton

That Night Train’s a mean wine.


288 posted on 09/16/2007 5:41:14 PM PDT by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: mylife
but the western world has been embrioled with this since Saladin waged war on the west.

Yes because Saladin invaded the West so many times. Oh that's right he didn't did he? To get this straight, Crusaders came to the Holy Land, embroiled themselves in a war that was not their own, but Saladin 'waged war on the West'. Gotcha.

Oh, we have tried to live in peace, but these aholes just dont stop

I agree!! Repeatedly invading their region for the past 800 years. Seriously!! What could they be upset about?

289 posted on 09/16/2007 5:44:02 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: padre35
I.E Congressmen Hyde basically just acknowledged that he is not, nor should the Federal Govt be, bound by either the Constitution nor an Oath to the Constitution....

And yet, all these FReepers who go on and on about how terrible they think Ron Paul is, let Hyde's betrayal of his oath to the Constitution go by with silence. It doesn't matter to them one bit.

290 posted on 09/16/2007 5:44:53 PM PDT by JTN (If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.)
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To: mylife
Look I'm not saying their form is right. I don't even agree with it. But what I've seen from some is the attitude that they should have this form of government, even if at the end of the barrel. We don't disagree the region should change. The disagreement is in how it should come about.

My only point is occupation has been tried multiple times. Perhaps Rep. Paul is not completely off track that perhaps trade could work better

291 posted on 09/16/2007 5:45:54 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: JTN

And people think I’m nuts for supporting Ron Paul...


292 posted on 09/16/2007 6:09:10 PM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile.)
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To: JTN; SJackson

“All of us have heard this term ‘preventative war’ since the earliest days of Hitler. I recall that is about the first time I heard it. In this day and time... I don’t believe there is such a thing; and, frankly, I wouldn’t even listen to anyone seriously that came in and talked about such a thing.”

Could there be a time when a pre-emptive strike is absolutely necessary in order to prevent an imminent strike against us? I believe it possible.

With this in mind, if there were credible evidence that Iran was building nuclear weapons, and I MEAN CREDIBLE, then should we make surgical pre-emptive strikes on such facilities in any nation that is threatening the destruction of these United States? I believe we should.

I don’t think Islamists are like the russians. Islamists share no mutual regard for human life. Islamists live to die for allah and his promise of virgins. Begs the question, are there no virgins in Islam that they can enjoy now? Or is it that male islamists are greedy little pigs who have a policy of virgins only for their pompous romps?

So now, how can I justify my support for Ron Paul who is against pre-emptive strikes? Well, it’s one thing to be against them, it’s another thing to refuse to act when there is credible evidence of an imminent strike. I believe RP a reasonable man inspite of the childish rants we witness here. He was reasonable when it came to getting OBL wasn’t he?. He voted to “authorize” the President to go get OBL in Afghanistan. No doubt this was a just cause. I believe he still wants OBL like the majority of us. But I don’t think he is convinced the current administration shares the same desire with the same passion as many of us.

Would a Pres Paul throw anyone out who came to him with credible evidence of an imminent strike against our nation?
I don’t think so. His service to our nation in the Air Force, his congressional record, his committment to this nation, and our Constitution says he would do what is in the best interest of this nation under the prevailing circumstance of an imminent threat. Since even RP has admitted Iran may be something we have to deal with.

I trust RP to do the right thing based on his life’s experience, his trust in God, his devotion to family, his education, and his unrelenting and unrepentant service to our nation in the Air Force and to our Constitution in congress.

That’s how.


293 posted on 09/16/2007 6:29:09 PM PDT by takenoprisoner (Can you hear that whistle blow? I can. I'm on the freedom train. Don't miss it.)
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To: JTN
Nah, I sure like knowing who is who.

294 posted on 09/16/2007 6:30:30 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: NapkinUser

Throw Momma From The Train!


295 posted on 09/16/2007 6:32:34 PM PDT by Scarchin (+)
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To: NapkinUser; All
Damn, I have been out all day and have missed another blessed gift from the mighty Paulinati!

A thread, another opportunity to mix with the gods of Olympus!

I will now eagerly dig through the multitude of blessed posts and divine enlightenment.

296 posted on 09/16/2007 7:06:07 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (I don't use a sarcasm tag, it kills the effect...)
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To: JTN; SJackson
Actually, Ike made three different statements from what I've discovered. 1946, 1953, 1954. For some context, let's look at Reason.com:

Dwight Eisenhower, for all his rambling amiability, was capable of vehemence. He showed it memorably at a news conference on August 11, 1954. Ray L. Scherer of NBC asked him about "increasing suggestions that we should embark on a preventive war with the Communist world, some of these suggestions by people in high places." Scherer was talking about Red China, which was rattling its sabers at Taiwan (then called Formosa) and would soon begin shelling Taiwanese forces in what would rapidly become a full-fledged crisis.

In those days, Communist China was the closest thing to today's Iran: a rising regional power, radical, ideological, antagonistic, and increasingly bold. Ike's secretary of State called the Chinese "an acute and imminent threat," and compared their "aggressive fanaticism" to Hitler's. Hawks clamored for action, saying that if the U.S. failed to defend Formosa, it would have to defend San Francisco later.

Reason Magazine - Learning From Ike



This is the full quote in the 1954 press conference transcript from an academic website.

Q. Ray L. Scherer, National Broadcasting Company: Mr. President, there seem to be increasing suggestions that we should embark on a preventive war with the Communist world, some of these suggestions by people in high places. I wonder, sir, if you would care to address yourself to that proposition.

THE PRESIDENT. All of us have heard this term "preventive war" since the earliest days of Hitler. I recall that is about the first time I heard it. In this day and time, if we believe for one second that nuclear fission and fusion, that type of weapon, would be used in such a war--what is a preventive war?

I would say a preventive war, if the words mean anything, is to wage some sort of quick police action in order that you might avoid a terrific cataclysm of destruction later.

A preventive war, to my mind, is an impossibility today. How could you have one if one of its features would be several cities lying in ruins, several cities where many, many thousands of people would be dead and injured and mangled, the transportation systems destroyed, sanitation implements and systems all gone? That isn't preventive war; that is war.

I don't believe there is such a thing; and, frankly, I wouldn't even listen to anyone seriously that came in and talked about such a thing.

Dwight D. Eisenhower: The President's News Conference of August 11th, 1954



297 posted on 09/16/2007 7:09:14 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

My post to someone came after they wanted to know why didn’t Bush repudiate Saudi Arabia. Hence, my question was fair even if annoying.


298 posted on 09/16/2007 7:21:06 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (RUN Paul - a man proudly putting al Qaeda's interest ahead of America's.)
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To: George W. Bush

Thank you, GWB. Nice work.


299 posted on 09/16/2007 7:22:29 PM PDT by JTN (If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.)
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To: billbears

The only thing that muslims understand is force.


300 posted on 09/16/2007 7:30:02 PM PDT by End Times Crusader (TehRon Paul - domestic enemy of America)
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