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Blackwater license being pulled in Iraq
Associated Press ^ | Sep 17, 2007 | BASSEM MROUE

Posted on 09/17/2007 4:34:26 AM PDT by decimon

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To: Half Vast Conspiracy
Why not? The US Government ‘outsources’ to private firms/contractors all the time. Why not outsource to a firm comprised largely of ex-military, ex-government employees, expert in their field, who have a bit more leeway in their ROE and can do what must be done but which is stymied by PC?
51 posted on 09/17/2007 6:28:09 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: Sarajevo
The original comment I made was in reference to the authors poor research of the subject matter. He should know his area of operations and the players better.

I don't see how that applies to this news article. Other than the quote below it seems straight news reporting.

"...as the country has plummeted toward anarchy and civil war."

52 posted on 09/17/2007 6:29:16 AM PDT by decimon
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To: Thermalseeker

Roger that.


53 posted on 09/17/2007 6:34:54 AM PDT by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Little Ray
Maybe ‘cause the military doesn’t want protect the whiny stripped pants pukes from the State Department?

If JSOC got Blackwater's contract I'm sure they wouldn't care if they were wearing clown suits and cummerbunds.

54 posted on 09/17/2007 6:35:59 AM PDT by angkor ("Everyone is super stoked on me, even if they don't know it." - Al Gore, South Park 10.6)
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To: LadyNavyVet

Dynacorps is another outfit that provides highly paid jobs to americans who have LE experience. They pay 100K a year or more depending on where you deploy. If hired you go to training in Texas, then go to Kosovo, Iraq, etc and train the locals in LE.


55 posted on 09/17/2007 6:36:32 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: Sarajevo

“You are correct about that, but this one is so poorly written and makes many assumptions that are blatantly false. The reporter should be b*tch-slapped.”

This is entertaining, and a compelling statement on the ineptness and dishonesty of the media. Watch the video clip all the way to the very end for the bloopers. He suggests pretty much the same thing you did in the credits at the end...it’s good for a laugh.

YouTube alternative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2sAFHBptJE


56 posted on 09/17/2007 6:37:04 AM PDT by AprilfromTexas
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To: angkor

Malaki is a front man for the Shia and Iran.

He wants the sectarian violence as long as it benefits the Shia/Iran and everyone knows that.

He is very upset at the surges effect.. Which has been to reduce sectarian violence.

I know the method used is temporary the way it has been conducted but it real.

This whole idea of massive pay increases for “Operators is occuring right now and I can thing of few things that are more morally repugnant.

It would cost 10x or more to provide the same level of security.

The State Department has their own Security Personell and they are very good they simply need to be supplemented.

BW does a darn good job for light guys and we are fortunate to have them there. For my money they have saved countless GI’s Lives.

Finally they are almost all former GI’s or Allied first person shooters who are better that the average bear at the job because of experience, aptitude and they shoot first when confronted with danger while active US Forces have to take it on the chin first.

W


57 posted on 09/17/2007 6:37:29 AM PDT by WLR
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe; Michael Barnes; Eagle Eye
I admittedly don’t know much about Blackwater, so I guess I’m in for an education on this thread.

I was not aware that they take an oath, but I’m not sure that means as much for a contractor. I also don’t care for a team that “flys under the radar” and “have a bit more leeway in their ROE.” Would you all feel the same way with a Dem in office?

As far as Blackwater doing planned ops, I have no proof that they have. I've only seen a You Tube video of their snipers picking off targets with much glee. perhaps I assumed incorrectly.

Finally, you all can certainly distinguish between contractors cleaning toilets or slinging hash and getting into the shooting war, right?

58 posted on 09/17/2007 6:40:53 AM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (I made a prank call...pretended I was a mime.)
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To: Half Vast Conspiracy

If you don’t think that civilians have been shooting and running operations for years you are naive.

The US govt sends people to Ranger School, etc so that they can run paramilitary operations in many places just so that we don’t have actual military involved.

I have no problem at all with a true mercenary force. None.


59 posted on 09/17/2007 6:47:40 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (If you agree with Democrats you agree with America's enemies.)
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To: decimon
He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to media.

Good to see he takes his responsibilities seriously.

60 posted on 09/17/2007 6:50:41 AM PDT by CaptRon (Pedicaris alive or Raisuli dead)
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To: Eagle Eye
If you don’t think that civilians have been shooting and running operations for years you are naive.

Two points: 1) Doing it for years doesn't make it right. 2) I was naive once, but 26 years of military service wore that out.

61 posted on 09/17/2007 6:51:57 AM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (I made a prank call...pretended I was a mime.)
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To: WLR; Thermalseeker; Little Ray; mad_as_he$$

My comment in #3 was rhetorical but badly written.

What I meant is that Maliki can complain all he likes about regrettable (and alleged, not proven) civilian casualities. But he is the Iraqi authority who presides over Baghdad’s chaotic and deadly security environment, and IMO it’s his fault and that of the Iraqi people that Blackwater (or any other PMC/PSC) must be used to protect the lives of consular officers on a 20 car minute car trip inside the city.

And so my also-rhetorial suggestion was to do away with the PMCs/PSCs and hire them all as DoD contract personnel. DoD would be happy to take the contract money, JSOC (or whatever) might benefit from experienced (and now well-paid) personnel, and Maliki could claim victory in ousting PMCs from Iraq.

Finally, CENTCOM might finally be forced to reconsider its insane rules-of-engagement.


62 posted on 09/17/2007 7:05:32 AM PDT by angkor ("Everyone is super stoked on me, even if they don't know it." - Al Gore, South Park 10.6)
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To: reagan_fanatic
Thousands of Iraqi citizens are being murdered every year by terrorists, many of them from Iran and Syria, and the Iraqi Government is getting its panties in a wad over the actions of a few Blackwater contractors?

Muslims being killed by Muslims is accepted. Muslims being killed by infidels is unacceptable to them

63 posted on 09/17/2007 7:13:06 AM PDT by PapaBear3625
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To: reagan_fanatic
the Iraqi Government is getting its panties in a wad over the actions of a few Blackwater contractors?

My **only** complaint about using PMCs in Iraq is that their mere presence offers your average conspiratorial, delusional, reality-challenged Arab politician with the opportunity to indulge in even more conspiracy theories and to distract from the overwhelming reality of Muslim-on-Muslim murder, mayhem, torture, discrimination, and violence.

64 posted on 09/17/2007 7:15:58 AM PDT by angkor ("Everyone is super stoked on me, even if they don't know it." - Al Gore, South Park 10.6)
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To: Sal

Yes, that works for me.


65 posted on 09/17/2007 7:16:57 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Guns themselves are fairly robust; their chief enemies are rust and politicians) (NRA)
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To: decimon

IMO, this is just an extortion play by high level Iraqi officials. As soon as Blackwater makes a cash injection into secret bank accounts they’ll be back on their feet.


66 posted on 09/17/2007 7:21:09 AM PDT by Rb ver. 2.0 (Reunite Gondwanaland!)
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To: decimon
I’m back.

If I’m reading it right, Blackwater doesn’t pay taxes on it’s workers, because of how they classify them (i.e. contractor vs. employee).

Even though they’re doing the exact same thing as Triple Canopy, they don’t pay any taxes.

So they always have the low bid on a government contract, while not paying taxes to the government on the money.,

It’s a loophole that, IMO, should be closed.

If it’s an American company awarded an American government contract, why are they allowed to be tax free, simply because of how they word their workers?

67 posted on 09/17/2007 7:26:30 AM PDT by airborne (Proud to be a conservative! Proud to support Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: airborne
If it’s an American company awarded an American government contract, why are they allowed to be tax free, simply because of how they word their workers?

Two things: 1) The dipwads at the DoD should have had this worked out before now. 2) Tax-wise, it should be a wash as the taxes not paid by Blackwater should be paid by its contractors.

68 posted on 09/17/2007 7:39:58 AM PDT by decimon
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To: airborne

they pay taxes. It depends on how long they are deployed overseas.


69 posted on 09/17/2007 7:53:46 AM PDT by RDTF (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, but Democrats believe every day is April 15th. - Reagan)
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To: airborne

What they do is not uncommon throughout the business world.

Instead of hiring employees and paying benefits and matching payroll taxes, they hire Independent Contractors who are supposed to be responsible for their own taxes and benefits, as well as tools and equipment.

In construction its the difference between hiring painters/drywallers/etc yourself and keeping them on payroll or subbing it out sometimes to IC tradesmen.

Yes, it certainly can get abused, but done properly it has legit uses and benefits to all.


70 posted on 09/17/2007 7:55:01 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (If you agree with Democrats you agree with America's enemies.)
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To: Eagle Eye

The difference between ‘Contractor’ and ‘Employee’ sounds like the difference between ‘Security Agent’ and ‘Mercenary’


71 posted on 09/17/2007 8:02:25 AM PDT by BritExPatInFla
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To: Rb ver. 2.0

Exactly. This is a baksheesh call if I ever saw one. And, at the same time, boob bait for Iraqi bubbas. The local average joes think the goverment’s being tough on the big bad American contractors, while the bureaucrats get an extra payday.


72 posted on 09/17/2007 8:11:53 AM PDT by LadyNavyVet
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To: airborne
If it’s an American company awarded an American government contract, why are they allowed to be tax free, simply because of how they word their workers?

Because that's the way it should be - for all of us. Gotta start somewhere.

73 posted on 09/17/2007 8:14:47 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: BritExPatInFla

Could be.

The IRS has a short list of points on IC vs Employee and the burden of proof is on the employer.

Done properly it works out well for all, as in the IT consultant that works for a fee or rate but is not an employee.

Done improperly you get employers who don’t pay taxes or insurance and end up screwing over the guys they hire.

*Some* security contractors have left their guys holding the bag when things go wrong because they don’t *owe* the same allegiance to ICs that they would to employees.


74 posted on 09/17/2007 8:39:13 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (If you agree with Democrats you agree with America's enemies.)
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To: angkor

>>Of course this begs the question why Blackwater et al are needed to protect U.S. State Dept. convoys, as this incident clearly demonstrates.

Fine, replace them with official U.S. military ops teams, train them to do force protection and force protection only, pay them the private contractor rate, and see the results change. Maybe, maybe not.<<

If you believe the CNN “expert” the U.S. has about 180,000 mercenaries in Iraq and that not one has ever been charged with anything... The implication is that the mercs can do things that troops are not allowed to do.


75 posted on 09/17/2007 9:44:59 AM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: gondramB

Not totally inaccurate.


76 posted on 09/17/2007 11:05:28 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (If you agree with Democrats you agree with America's enemies.)
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To: decimon

I’m not an expert on all this, but I trust the source of what I’m being told.

In the end, Triple Canopy will prosper from Blackwater’s demise.

But it doesn’t change the fact that a loophole exists.


77 posted on 09/17/2007 11:37:09 AM PDT by airborne (Proud to be a conservative! Proud to support Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: ryan71
By kicking out Blackwater, they might be cutting their own throats, literally.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Which is why it won't happen.

78 posted on 09/17/2007 11:40:59 AM PDT by Candor7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghdad_(1258))
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To: RDTF
they pay taxes. It depends on how long they are deployed overseas.

Which is it? Do they pay taxes,or do they come home every 6 months and avoid being taxed?

79 posted on 09/17/2007 11:41:10 AM PDT by airborne (Proud to be a conservative! Proud to support Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: Eagle Eye

From what I’m being told, the system is being taken advantage of, with Blackwater getting preferential treatment.


80 posted on 09/17/2007 11:43:39 AM PDT by airborne (Proud to be a conservative! Proud to support Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: decimon
An embassy official provided no information about Iraqi casualties but said no State Department personnel were wounded or killed.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Mission Successful.

A job well done, and what they were hired to do.

81 posted on 09/17/2007 11:44:55 AM PDT by Candor7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghdad_(1258))
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To: Eagle Eye

I think you said it right.

At least that’s what I’m getting from what I’ve read and heard.


82 posted on 09/17/2007 11:46:09 AM PDT by airborne (Proud to be a conservative! Proud to support Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: TLI
"What's the problem? Sombodys "cousin" was in the ambush with the bad guys and got aired out?"

Ha! My first thought was a politician's nephew must have been splattered attacking that convoy.

83 posted on 09/17/2007 11:47:03 AM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Eagles Talon IV
Keep in mind this is an AP story.

As evidenced by the editorial comment in following paragraph:

"The contractors, including many Americans and Britons, provide protection for Westerners and dignitaries in Iraq as the country has plummeted toward anarchy and civil war."

84 posted on 09/17/2007 11:51:31 AM PDT by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, but DemocRATs believe every day is April 15th. - Reagan)
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To: Half Vast Conspiracy
I'm not comfortable with a private firm doing what the military ought to be doing.

Me neither, but this is an inevitable outcome of attempting to run and police the world on the cheap, with a military about half as big as it should be for such an enormous job.

85 posted on 09/17/2007 1:19:44 PM PDT by jpl (Dear Al Gore: it's 3:00 A.M., do you know where your drug addicted son is?)
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To: TLI
What's the problem? Sombodys "cousin" was in the ambush with the bad guys and got aired out?

More like it's been building up for a while now. Some FReepers posted early this year that Blackwater had caused some problems for some US troops and I had read on private forum that some US military commanders were not happy with them. The implication was that Blackwater did something stupid and the locals tried to take it out on American troops.

To be honest, I've been uncomfortable with us relying more and more on contractors in Iraq for these kinds of functions. I understand that we don't have enough troops there to do everything (and I definitely understand that some of the duties that contractors handle, our troops would not have been trained for).

Still, Blackwater knew the rules, it wasn't like this came out of nowhere.
86 posted on 09/17/2007 1:30:03 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: LadyNavyVet
That being said, I would also like to see a larger military doing these sorts of jobs, but that is highly unlikely to happen as it would require greatly increasing the overall size of the military and the numbers on the ground in Iraq. Just imagine the screaming from the Dems and their minions in the press.

Bush had that chance for several years, with a Republican Congress. After 9/11, many of us scratched our heads, wondering why he refused to boost the military when it was clear we'd be involved in a war that would go on for years.

For example, one has to dig around a bit to find out how many Blackwater employees have lost their lives in Iraq, while one can get the latest military body count in seconds from any news outlet.

On the other hand, Blackwater and some of the other companies have made it difficult to find out such information. I mentioned that a FReeper was talking about Blackwater a few years ago - they were implying that finding out such counts, as well as how people died, was very difficult to get out of Blackwater.
87 posted on 09/17/2007 1:41:52 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: decimon
Blackwater’s site seems to be down for me, is everyone having the same problem?
88 posted on 09/17/2007 2:46:17 PM PDT by mnehring (Thompson/Hunter 08 -- Fred08.com - The adults have joined the race.)
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To: mnehrling
Blackwater’s site seems to be down for me, is everyone having the same problem?

Could be overloaded due to the publicity. Or I did a dos on them with this thread. I'm going to go hide now. :-)

89 posted on 09/17/2007 2:50:16 PM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon
I have two friends who work for Blackwater training policemen in Iraq, I like to keep up with what is happening. It does sound like a lot of people are cutting off a valuable resource.
90 posted on 09/17/2007 2:52:36 PM PDT by mnehring (Thompson/Hunter 08 -- Fred08.com - The adults have joined the race.)
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To: af_vet_rr

We agree. There were a lot of things that DIDN’T happen after 911 that should have. Increasing the size of the military is one. Now it’s too late. Bush is a lame duck and there’s no way he could get end strength increases through Congress without another 911-style attack.

As for Blackwater’s secrecy, what you say is absolutely true. As a privately held company, it is under no obligation to release personal information on its employees to the press.


91 posted on 09/17/2007 2:56:34 PM PDT by LadyNavyVet
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To: airborne
Do they pay taxes,or do they come home every 6 months and avoid being taxed?

By current IRS policy, cited in IRS Form 673 (Statement for Claiming Exemption From Withholding on Foreign Earned Income Eligible for the Exclusion(s) Provided by Section 911), a taxpayer must qualify under the Bona Fide Residency Test, or the Physical Presence Test.

 This form allows the company to reduce your Federal tax withholding based on your intention to qualify for the Internal Revenue Code Section 911, which consists of a foreign-earned income and housing exclusion.  For 2008, the annual foreign-earned income exclusion is $85,700 and the annual housing exclusion is $24,720 of which $13,712 is a base amount.

To qualify for the deduction, the taxpayer must physically be outside of the US for 330 days out of  consecutve 365 day period.

That having been said, there are ways around this.

 
From what I’m being told, the system is being taken advantage of, with Blackwater getting preferential treatment.

Eric Prince is a friend of Bush.
 
 

92 posted on 09/18/2007 12:04:43 AM PDT by Sarajevo (A journey of a thousand miles begins with a cash advance.)
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To: decimon

BTTT


93 posted on 09/19/2007 7:07:12 AM PDT by MilspecRob (Most people don't act stupid, they really are.)
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