Essay Links (School)Vouchers to Saving Mormon Culture

KSL/Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 09/16/07

[colorcountry]

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- A conservative think tank is distributing a lengthy essay on the history of education in Utah that implies that if Mormons don't vote in favor of the state's school voucher law that they could face cultural extinction.

The Mormon-oriented Sutherland Institute bought advertisements in Utah's two largest newspapers to publish its essay, which says public schools were introduced in Utah by federal officials who wanted to end The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' control of the state.

"The object was to provide a broader context, not just for the voucher debate but for education reform policy debates across the spectrum," Mero says. "The paper was written with the hopes that we can lessen the contentiousness."

Utah passed the nation's broadest private school voucher program, giving parents $500 to $3,000 per child to attend private school. Voters will decide whether to keep the program Nov. 6.

Voucher opponents say they are appalled by some of the essay's statements, including author Paul Mero's assertion that public schools historically have been part of the federal government's campaign of "cultural cleansing" of minority groups.

Mero stands behind the statements and says it applies to Mormons, American Indians and other minority groups. "I've just written what the history is," he says. "I'm not making stuff up." Voucher advocacy group Parents for Choice in Education would not comment on the essay. The unofficial blog of Senate Republicans, www.senatesite.com, features the essay on its site and calls it a "striking analysis ... offering historic context for the voucher discussion."

Senate Republicans voted in favor of the voucher law and working to rally support for it before the November referendum.

Opponents of vouchers say the essay is an attempt to convince Mormon voters that their forebears would want them to join the voucher cause.

"No honest person who has studied the historical record of Utahns prior to statehood could conclude anything other than that they would have embraced what we now call vouchers," the essay says. "I shook my head when I read it," said Rep. Sheryl Allen, R-Bountiful, who is Mormon and a voucher opponent. Allen said that if Mero's argument is that because 19th-century Mormons relied on private schools, state government should provide vouchers today, "Then we should also go back to polygamy, too."

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints stopped sanctioning polygamy in 1890 as a condition of statehood. Harvey Kantor, chairman of the University of Utah's Department of Education, Culture and Society, says it is dangerous to try to compare historically distant societies. "He's trying to apply the practices of a 19th-century society to the concerns we have today. We are talking about two very different societies," Kantor says. "The only people that would make sense to would be fundamentalist Mormons."

Fundamentalist Mormons continue to practice polygamy, believing mainstream Mormons betrayed their faith by abandoning the practice because of pressure from federal authorities. "It was not meant to flush out the good Mormons and call them to the cause," Mero said. He says it was intended to say that those familiar with state history shouldn't fear vouchers.

Kim Burningham, a voucher opponent and chairman of the Utah Board of Education, worries the essay will increase religious contention in the state. "If there's anything Utah doesn't need in the 21st century, it's more divisiveness between Mormons and non-Mormons," Burningham said. "Our current (public education) system provides an excellent compromise - seminary . . . that allows the LDS faithful to obtain daily religious instruction."

Voucher opponent Rep. Carol Spackman Moss, D-Holladay, says the Sutherland essay is deplorable. "It was almost sacrilegious. He's implying that somehow the church is approving of vouchers because of how they conducted school in the early days. He is trying to connect it to the Mormon religion," she said.

Church spokesman Mark N. Tuttle issued a two-sentence response to the essay, saying the church hasn't taken a position on school vouchers.

Frederick Buchanan, a retired University of Utah professor who has written extensively on the history of Utah education, questions the idea that the public school system threatens Mormon culture in Utah. "That's nonsense. The public school system reinforces the LDS values at every turn," he said.

That's one reason, Buchanan says, there are so few Mormon parochial schools. The Catholic school system is the largest private school system in Utah.

When the federal government pushed Utah to establish public schools to replace the Mormon church-controlled system, he says, Mormon leaders decided "We'll make them our schools."

[Hi Heels]

Ah! The daily I hate Mormons thread. What WOULD we talk about if not for this?

[ElkGroveDan]

It’s not just Mormons who should feel this way. Christianity is threatened by the official government reeducation camps.

[colorcountry]

You’re right.

[MeanWestTexan]

I was looking at it as an excellent example of how to flee the disgusting public schools system, myself.

I (and my company) pay north of a hundred thousand a year in property taxes and have never expose a child to public school; nor would I voluntarily.

[colorcountry]

I saw this as a conservative/education/voucher thread.

It just so happens that my local news is from Utah, which often focuses on the predominant religion of the area. It seems you have a problem with that.

[Osage Orange]

Ah! The daily I hate Mormons thread. What WOULD we talk about if not for this?

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

I didn't read it that way........

[ElkGroveDan]

Want to see an example?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1896642/posts

While this admittedly begins in Canada note the cultural trend that has taken over about unwritten behavior in society. Note how many Freepers have been completely absorbed by the “don’t criticize anything gay” message that’s been beaten in by the public schools.

After that go look for a thread on recycling and see how many people here treat it like something sacred — a civic duty instead of the leftist agenda item that it is.

[Hi Heels]

Let’s wait and see, shall we?

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

which says public schools were introduced in Utah by federal officials who wanted to end The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' control of the state.

Actually, they probably are right about that. The Catholics said the same thing, that the government schools were being used to "Protestantise" their children, which is why there was a boom in sectarian schools starting later in the 19th century. Indeed, the public schools were a way to assimilate the huge scads of Irish, Italians, and other (largely Catholic) immigrants who came to our shores between 1850-1920.

Interesting note - the rubbish about separation of church and state as it applies to the schools started as an effort to hinder the rise of the Catholic school movement.

[achilles2000]

The author of the essay is right. The entire history of government schooling is one of using compulsory “public education” to promote the worldview of whatever group happened to be in control. Initially, the public schools were first sold and then used as a way of “Protestantizing” Catholic children, which is why a Catholic school system was created so rapidly in the 19th Century. Following 1865, the Peabody Foundation and Jabez Curry, known as the “Horace Mann of the South” forced the New England model of government schools on the South for the purpose of “reeducating” the next generation of Southerners into a proper understanding of the Constitution and the union. Our so-called “public school educators” have always had a messianic obsession about remaking society through schooling - creating a utopia that just happens to resemble their own views. Just take a look at the NEA’s most recent resolutions....Government schools are necessary as a mechanism of control for the liberal elites who control the system, but they are unnecessary for education. In fact, they are an impediment to education. Except, of course, for all of the government schools that are different - which would be any government school someone on FR sends his children to attend or works in.

[JRochelle]

“Voucher opponents say they are appalled by some of the essay’s statements, including author Paul Mero’s assertion that public schools historically have been part of the federal government’s campaign of “cultural cleansing” of minority groups.”

I support vouchers but that statement is just plain hogwash.

[colorcountry]

Personally I believe our spublic edumacation school system is being used to liberalize our children. They are a seed-bed of atheistic, liberal, keep-the-masses-stupid, communist re-education camps, that have been set-up to benefit the Teacher’s Union and not the students. JMHO

[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

I would agree, which is why, when my kids come along, they will be home-schooled. My soon-to-be-wife and I will be jointly giving them an education in everything that the dumbed-down-homosexual-loving-left-wing-drivel-spewing-condoms-on-bananas PC crowd doesn’t want them to learn: the classics, Western literature, classical liberal and classical republican political philosophy, etc. etc.

[colorcountry]

My kids were taught in the public education system. It was almost a full time job re-educating them each evening when they got home.

Since that time, they’ve done well with life and higher-education in general. We taught them to see through the bull-crap agenda that permeates everything from the mass media through the education system.

Congratulations on the decision to be responsible in raising your children with brains and values!

[MHGinTN]

When the public school system diverted from teaching the three "R's" into teaching all manner of societal engineering crap promoted by liberalism and secular humanism, the public school system became a propaganda arm of the secularizing of America, so your observation is most keen!

If households spend a significant amount of time teaching family values to their children, the secularizing effects of the public indoctrination program would be much less transformative. Alas, the more parents try to get into educating their children in family values, the more the society promotes crap like soft porn and self-indulgence, corroding even the values the family tries to teach at home. Frankly, Mormons have a stronger family institution and thus have been less effected by the secularization, but they have not been totally immune.

[colorcountry]

Being active and involved with your children is the best tool against brain-washing there is.

(New tagline)

[BlackElk]

Ping for later

[batter]

I agree that the author is probably correct. The problem I see, however, is that most parents/voters don’t consider this an issue (I haven’t seen or heard much chatter about vouchers as a way to preserve religion). He would have been better to have focused on how vouchers would allow preservation of values by using Utah and National history (and current events) on values manipulation. Ultimately, I think his article will not help - it diverts attention to a perceived “non issue” instead of staying focused on parents rather than government choosing you child’s eduction.

[batter]

Here's a link to the essay (in pdf):

Vouchers, Vows, and Vexations - It runs about 44 pages.

[colorcountry]

Thanks for the link.

I’m on the Sutherland Institute’s mailing list, so I got the booklet. I didn’t realize they had a website.

[MHGinTN]

I spent years listening to Through The Bible Radio during my daily routine in sales. McGee is one of those whom I will seek out when I get to Heaven, to thank him personally for his faithfulness which helped me so much.

[colorcountry]

I love him.

At first I thought he was a funny, quirky sounding, red-neck. But first impressions can be decieving. He has perfect knowledge.

[ASOC]

Respectfully - you, Sir, have missed the point.

In Alaska, yhe Native culture was all but destroyed by the Federal (BIA) school system.

Now the only place children can learn the language of thier forefathers is local schools that offer language arts based on Native culture.

And yes, they also teach English and have access to the ‘Net.

[Cymbaline]

Strange that they would write this from a “Mormon Culture” perspective, since school vouchers (and home-schooling) would benefit all religious cultures.

And to think Mormon Culture in Utah of all places is in danger, is laughable.

[JRochelle]

I will grant that there are minorities that have suffered because of the federal gov. But that would have happened regardless. Thats what happens when another culture takes over/wins the war, etc.

Do you think the minority was being destroyed when a few God-hating people threw God out of the public school?

[Elsie]

Essay Links (School)Vouchers to Saving Mormon Culture

Dang!

I didn't know it was LOST!!

[Elsie]

 Note how many Freepers have been completely absorbed by the “don’t criticize anything gay” message that’s been beaten in by the public schools.

 

 

Dang!!!

 

I'll have to correct that!!!

---

---

 

Genesis 13:13       Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

      More?

 

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

---

---

2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

---

---

 

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

---

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....

Genesis 13:13       Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psalms 12:8      The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

      More?

 

Isaiah 3:9   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b  Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

 

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

---

---

2 Peter 2

 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
 13.  They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

---

---

 

But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
     Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

---

If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....

[tracer]

Be patient. You’ll see......

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Did you attend public schools on tax payer money?

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Now the only place children can learn the language of thier forefathers is local schools that offer language arts based on Native culture.

Are there no descendents in those families who speak the native tongue?

Many of the families that have moved to America and are within my circle of friends speak their native tongue, and their children learn English in school... which the parents augment with further English spoken in the home to assist their school-age children. Thus, these children are bilingual.

[MeanWestTexan]

No.

I attended (ironically) a Roman Catholic school, then a private religious school in Israel.

[Osage Orange]

Be patient. You’ll see......

Be patient?

I specifically replied to the post. Did you see anything remotely like attack/hate in the original posting?

Seemed to me the poster was trying to gin up, something that wasn't there.

FWIW

[FastCoyote]

“Ah! The daily I hate Mormons thread. What WOULD we talk about if not for this?”

It would be a minor issue except that Mitt is running - now the can of worms has been opened.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I went to public schools and private Catholic University and college.

I know the public school system is a problem that needs great attention.

But my husband and I also firmly believe in at-home-instruction.

I’m unable to homeschool. BUT, we spend a great deal of time teaching the children ourselves. We do not believe in just handing our kids over to the public schools without monitoring their instruction AND influencing the way our children view the world.

[ASOC]

Few, mostly Elders. The school system punished the students for speaking in a Native tongue.

Now, there are classes taught in the Native language, even adults attend. Much of the old culture is not good for today - unless you desire to live a subsistence life.

Other parts, like respect for Elders, avoiding conflict, support of each other, are very much needed today.

Specifically:

Inupiat Ilitqusiat

Every Inupiaq is responsible to all other Inupiat for the survival of our cultural spirit, and the values and traditions through which it survives. Through our extended family, we retain, teach and live our Inupiaq way. With guidance and support from Elders, we must teach our children Inupiaq values:

Knowledge of Language
Knowledge of Family Tree
Sharing
Humility
Respect for Others
Love for Children
Cooperation
Hard Work
Respect for Elders
Respect for Nature
Avoid Conflict
Family Roles
Humor
Spirituality
Domestic Skills
Hunter Success
Responsibility to Tribe

I have worked for several Native Corporations - very family focused and good employers.

[Utah Girl]

My sister put her children in a charter school a couple of years ago. They are getting a great education. I support vouchers because it gives parents freedom to select a school for their children. My sister got tired of having her children dumbed down. One of her daughters is a child prodigy and was continually correcting the teacher about dates in history (the teacher didn’t know when the Renaissance occurred. My sister also got tired of discussing the teachers and principals who were terrible teachers and administrators. It took her neighborhood 4 years to get the Jordan school district to move a principal, and they just transferred the principal to another school. They just move incompetency around.

The thing she likes about the charter school is that the teachers are held accountable for their teaching. It is a structured curriculum. My nephew had a teacher who couldn’t keep up, and in four months, she was a teacher’s aide, and her contract wasn’t renewed for the next year.

[Osage Orange]

J. Vernon...!! OH YEAH!! Can't hardly get better than him!! Listened to him often when I was just a baby Christian.

Loved his teachings.

Had a patient in the hospital awhile back whose husband sounded just like McGee.....Brought back memories.

Best FRegards,

[Rameumptom]

The Church used to operate the schools. Here is a link about Higher Univ. Education. I assume the 1890 act turned not just some universities but elementary and secondary schools to the govt?

Encylopedia of Mormonism - Academies

Between 1875 and 1910, the LDS Church sponsored thirty-three academies for secondary education in seven western states, Canada, and Mexico. Factors contributing to the development of the academy system were (1) the lack of public educational facilities in Utah before 1900; (2) the influx of a non-Mormon population with the accompanying establishment of academies by other denominations, schools that attracted many LDS youth; and (3) the need to provide schools in areas newly settled under the colonization program that the Church carried out in the western United States, Mexico, and Canada....

...Some of these schools succumbed to the widespread economic depression following the Panic of 1893 and to the rise of public schools in Utah Territory after the free school act of 1890. Twenty-two of the academies, however, continued to thrive during the early twentieth century, constituting the only secondary schools in many LDS communities until after 1911.

By 1927 the Church had closed or turned over to the states all but eight of the academies. Six remained as accredited normal schools or two-year colleges, one as a university, and one as a secondary school. By 1934 only three—Brigham Young University, Ricks College, and Juarez Academy—continued under Church sponsorship. All three are presently operating (1991).

Factors leading to closing or transferring the academies to state education systems included the burden of financing two competing systems as public high schools emerged and the success of church-sponsored seminaries and institutes in supplementing secular education with religious training.

During the mid-twentieth century, schools similar in purpose and scope to the earlier academies were established in the South Pacific and elsewhere administered by the Church Educational System.

In 1953 legislation was passed in Utah as part of a cost-reduction effort to return Weber, Snow, and Dixie Colleges to the Church, but in a statewide referendum Utah voters rejected the proposal and the colleges remained with the state.

[NucSubs]

What is the race in Utah looking like? Any chance of vouchers passing?

[SoftballMominVA]

I was looking at it as an excellent example of how to flee the disgusting public schools system, myself. I (and my company) pay north of a hundred thousand a year in property taxes and have never expose a child to public school; nor would I voluntarily.

The language of the bill makes it quite clear that to qualify for any voucher money at all a child must be enrolled in a public school system and must meet some educational need standard. IIRC, anyone in the public schools can get $500, but the 3k goes to those who can show they need the money.

If a child is currently in a private school or home school setting, they qualify for $0 to attend a private school of their choice.