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My Prediction if the Fairtax is passed

Posted on 09/22/2007 7:18:53 PM PDT by netvictory

Conservative Movement

Rush Limbaugh accuracy rating is lowered to 10% because he totally missed the biggest political paradigm change in history, which destroyed liberalism in America.  

Democrat party fails to elect anyone to Congress because they opposed the Fairtax and kept trying to change it. 

Union membership drops to less than 1% because Union leadership runs the Democrat Party.Joe Morecraft III and Walter Williams start a movement to replace the Fairtax with the head tax. No one listens or cares about the head tax, except for Rush Limbaugh who jumps on board. Rush's accuracy rating is lowered another 5 points.

Every Evangelical pastor, conservative leader and Republican candidate claims he was for the Fairtax when the Fairtax wasn't cool.

Christian Life

Christian tithing increases because people now have 22.65% to 34.65% more spending money in their paychecks. Church would then have more resources to spread the Word of God. The beginning of the largest and longest Revival occurs.  

Resurgence in Christians Hospitals occurs, driven by the increase in church revenues, Christian thrift, and Evangelist community outreach both at home and abroad. Americans Christians become known worldwide for Christian Medical missions. 

The study of Latin and Greek reappears in American as a part of a normal private school K-12 education. A restoration of Puritan values sweeps America as communities began devote their lives to promoting Crown Rights of King Jesus. 

The Family meal time is restored because people want to save money, work at home, home school, or sends their children to private neighborhood schools. 

The number abortions drop because women and families get more money in their prebate checks for each child in the family. 

Pro Life supporters’ demand the Fairtax prebate starts at the point of conception and the limit on children in a family be removed. Abortion becomes obsolete and is banned. 

Pastors under the Fairtax can say anything they want from the pulpit without fear of losing a tax exempt status, including endorsing candidates and political parties.

Membership in the Democrat Party or in a union is consider Satanic by most churches, and preached against in the pulpits of Evangelical Churches.

Almost every Bible Believing Church has a K-12 school they support or run.

Government

Americans learn the value of saving money and demand Congress and state legislators cut spending.   

Elected officials now have twice as much time to address the spending side of government because the Fairtax, which has become the Third Rail of politics, can not be touched. The Sixth Amendment becomes obsolete and no longer talked about. 

One half of the lobbyist in Washington and in every state capital lose their jobs and go home and look for real jobs because there is no tax code to play with. 

Local and state property taxes are eliminated from the American society, because the Fairtax is a broader base sales tax then any current state sales tax, and it can replace both property and income tax systems at the same percentage rate of most current state sales tax.  

The United Nations is kicked out of the United States. The League of Fairtax Nations takes over the building.  Nations must have a Fairtax and an American Bill of rights to join the new League of Fairtax Nations.

Home schooling and the number of private schools increase because education is consider an investment and not tax under the Fairtax. 

The money spent on government schools is rolled into the state prebates checks because Americans began to despise socialism. Government schools become obsolete and Teachers Colleges go out of business across America. John Dewy spins faster in Hell.

Economy

Personal debt is no longer the number one marketed product in America. Most people have access to their prebate through a Debt card, and use it only in emergencies, automatically transferring excess money over to a mutual funded each month.

The average person who starts work at 15 years of age can retire by 35 years of age, with or without a college degree. Most college graduates go back to school by age 30 and have two or three different professional careers in their lifetime.

Everyone who wants a job has a job. The economy is booming!

Corporations are moving their headquarters and manufacturing back to the USA!

American products, for the first time in history, are shipped out of the country tax free.

American products, for the first time in nearly 100 years, have equal or better advantage in the American market place. Currently, idiots run the country.

We get to keep 100% of our paycheck! Currently, idiots run the country.

Social Security is on stable footing for the first time in years! It eventually becomes an obsolete government program no longer wanted or needed.

Medicare is paying its own way and is no longer in danger of default! It eventually becomes an obsolete government program no longer wanted or needed.

The Corporate taxes and costs of compliance hidden in both wholesale and retail prices no longer exist! Even with the Fairtax prices are nearly the same as before the Fairtax.

We love our monthly
prebate check! The lower income people pay no taxes because of this and the rest of us get a free ride up to the amount of the poverty level!

This means we can save more, faster and have more money available for education, home ownership and retirement!

We don’t have to fill out those stupid IRS forms anymore! We save a total of $250 billion or more (about 3% of the GDP).

The government wins too! They get the same amount of revenue they are used to getting! Currently, idiots run the country and want to keep the seesaw tax reform debate going and do not support the Fairtax. The Fairtax is not tax reform, it is tax replacement.


And guess who has to start paying taxes for the first time in their lives? Illegals, prostitutes, drug dealers, the porn industry, criminals, plus all of the other under-the-table transactions that take place! Currently, idiots run the country


The IRS and the tax code is eliminated, except as punishment for those who try and cheat on the Fairtax,.  It is later ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court because it is deem cruel and unusually punishment.

Note: Part of the list was stolen off a blog. My apologies to the owner of that blog.

 
Thanks,
James A. Hodges  

Podcast: gopwing.podomatic.com 

Memberships:



TOPICS: Government; Political Humor/Cartoons; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: fairtax; fairtaxorglimbaugh; pipedream; predictions; putdownthebong
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1 posted on 09/22/2007 7:18:57 PM PDT by netvictory
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To: netvictory; ancient_geezer; Taxman; pigdog; Principled; EternalVigilance; PhilWill; kevkrom; ...
Linder Announces 65th Co-Sponsor For FairTax Bill (64th signed 9/10/07)
2 posted on 09/22/2007 7:26:24 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: netvictory

Aren’t the Democrats trying to pass a tax increase they’re calling the “Fairer Tax”? /sarc


3 posted on 09/22/2007 7:28:15 PM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: netvictory

What is the over/under for the amount of time before the attacks begin?


4 posted on 09/22/2007 7:29:21 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: coconutt2000

I think we should give total war a chance to bring peace. It work in WWII.


5 posted on 09/22/2007 7:29:50 PM PDT by netvictory
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To: coconutt2000
Aren’t the Democrats trying to pass a tax increase they’re calling the “Fairer Tax”? /sarc

The Fair Flat Tax Act of 2007 (S.1111.IS) /no sarc
6 posted on 09/22/2007 7:32:15 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: netvictory

Thanks anyway but I’ll bet on Rush’s accuracy.


7 posted on 09/22/2007 7:34:30 PM PDT by traderrob6
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To: traderrob6

Me, as well. He has missed on occasion, but has a pretty good track record.


8 posted on 09/22/2007 7:37:37 PM PDT by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
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To: netvictory
Home schooling and the number of private schools increase because education is consider an investment and not tax under the Fairtax.

Yes; the site FairTax.org has a good document on the impact of the FairTax on education at http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/TheImpactOfTheFairTaxOnEducation.pdf.

9 posted on 09/22/2007 7:49:38 PM PDT by snowsislander
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To: netvictory

Well .. the fairtax might produce all that stuff .. but I don’t believe it would catch El Rusbo off guard.


10 posted on 09/22/2007 7:49:41 PM PDT by CyberAnt (America: THE GREATEST NATION on the face of the earth!)
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To: netvictory

This is the misguided ranting of someone, and I’ve known several of the type, who:

1) Are jealous of anyone’s success other than their own
2) Want to be the only one who is “right”

A lot of gold bugs are like this.


11 posted on 09/22/2007 7:49:50 PM PDT by Eccl 10:2 (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem - Ps 122:6)
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To: netvictory
Christian tithing increases because people now have 22.65% to 34.65% more spending money in their paychecks.

Now there's a load of crap!! FairTax does nothing but shift tax liabiliy to the end user and if you think businesses are going to provide wholesale price reductions to consumers you know nothing about business.

12 posted on 09/22/2007 7:51:44 PM PDT by A_Tradition_Continues (THE NEXT GENERATION CONSERVATIVE)
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To: Eccl 10:2

Add:

3) Probably thinks his church is the only one who’ll get to heaven. I’m guessing KJV is the only Bible allowed.


13 posted on 09/22/2007 7:54:02 PM PDT by Eccl 10:2 (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem - Ps 122:6)
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To: A_Tradition_Continues

“FairTax does nothing but shift tax liabiliy to the end user”

The current tax system already taxes the end user, but it taxes the other end: Your income rather than your consumption. In the end, under any tax system, all taxes are paid by individuals.


14 posted on 09/22/2007 8:03:34 PM PDT by navyguy (Some days you are the pigeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: navyguy
The current tax system already taxes the end user, but it taxes the other end: Your income rather than your consumption.

It also taxes consumption because hidden taxes are factored into the price.
15 posted on 09/22/2007 8:07:40 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: netvictory

And then the whole thing crashes when the Democrats and free spending Republicans realize that they still need the income tax after all, in addition fair tax.

When the economy slows, they raise the fair tax to pay for socialized medicine and universal preschool.


16 posted on 09/22/2007 8:07:41 PM PDT by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: netvictory
Oooh, such a picturesque world you present... My predictions: 22% of small businesses go under in the first two months of FairTax as all utilities, rent, leases are taxed at a 30% rate, followed by half of small business dying within the first year. Credit card transactions come with a built in fee to cover the tax portion of the bill as remaining small businesses try to not lose any more money.

As small business represents the largest segment of employment, the economy immediately spirals into the largest recession in modern US history. New home sales tank as the 30% tax immediately improves the value of any used property. Used car lots become the thing to invest in as new cars overnight go up in price by 30%. Employer provided health insurance immediately tanks as that too goes up 30% overnight.

On the plus side, an incredible resurgence in the value of not making disposable products and re-creating the appliance repair market as repairing an item finally once again becomes cheaper than replacing it. Imports drop dramatically as people seek out repairable products, and look more to durability than to price.

Economies in the most liberal of states with the most stringent of requirements for employers tank the hardest, especially in RomneyCareLand where required health insurance no longer has the stick of denial of personal exemption from tax returns - it's cheaper to not worry about the exemption than it is to pay the tax on health care.

And six months in, Congress is faced with an incredible flood of cash, the largest they've ever had, as the ill thought out FairTax rate proves to far exceed government expenditures, leading to even more socialization with a New New Deal supporting liberals to one of the largest landslides in election history as people throw out the people who brought this inanely huge tax rate onto every purchase, everywhere.

17 posted on 09/22/2007 8:14:55 PM PDT by kingu (No, I don't use sarcasm tags - it confuses people.)
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To: Man50D

When the FairTax is enacted is the day the Stanley Cup finals will be held in Hell.


18 posted on 09/22/2007 8:17:57 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Hillary Clinton is the most corrupt presidential candidate to ever run for office)
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To: netvictory
Who are you? Are you a commentator?
19 posted on 09/22/2007 8:18:27 PM PDT by elizabetty (Don't Taze Me Bro')
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To: dangerdoc
And then the whole thing crashes when the Democrats and free spending Republicans realize that they still need the income tax after all, in addition fair tax.

That wouldn't happen considering FairTax legislation does three things that effectively dismantle the income tax: (1) it abolishes the IRS, (2) it repeals all statutory language having to do with taxing income and payroll (i.e., the Internal Revenue Code), and (3) it eliminates the filing of annual income tax returns to the federal government for over 140 million Americans. Fair Tax FAQ #50.

When the economy slows, they raise the fair tax to pay for socialized medicine and universal preschool.

Attempting to raise The Fair Tax would backfire. The transparency of The Fair Tax due to the rate printed on every bill of sale would make every taxpayer immediately aware of such ans attempt as opposed to the income tax and all its exemptions, loopholes and hidden taxes. More importantly raising the rate too high will discourage people to spend. Consequently Congress would collect less tax to fund the federal government and force them to lower their spending. Founding Father and first Secretary Of The Treasury Alexander Hamilton raise this point in his Federalist Paper #21:

"It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption that they contain in their own nature a security against excess. They prescribe their own limit, which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed-that is, an extension of the revenue. When applied to this object, the saying is as just as it is witty that, "in political arithmetic, two and two do not always make four." If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds. This forms a complete barrier against any material oppression of the citizens by taxes of this class, and is itself a natural limitation of the power of imposing them. "
20 posted on 09/22/2007 8:20:09 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: netvictory

lets see:

Democrats demand a ever increasing PREBATE to adjust for cost of living EVERY SINGLE ELECTION CYCLE.

Every single business now has a NEW BURDEN of being a sales tax collector for the federal government.

There is a whole new federal bureacracy swelling the ranks of the federal employee union.

Illegal aliens sue to obtain their “justice” share of their prebate.

Democrats push for a prohibition of prebate for those who earn more than 50 thousand dollars.

Busniesses flood OUT f the USA because of the absurd tax burden.

State income and sales taxes are 100% unaffected.

The REALIZED tax burden to the average citizen jumps above 60% when totalled.

Seniors who planed for retirement are penalized as their tax exempt retirement expenditures on goods and services are taxed at rates higher than if they had done nothing.

Retirement planing goes EVEN LOWER. (why bother)

Outsourcing expands as corporations flee to spend their now taxed service dollars ANYWHERE else.

== == == ======

The fair sales tax is a snake oil scam and worse than the bad system we have now.

If anything the sum of its parts is WORSE than the individual elements taken seperatly. (The prebate is the biggest boneheaded idea and about as harmless as “social security is only a supplement not a pension”.)

The pundits and leaders are WISE to stay FAR away from this delusional wet dream.

(oh and for those who advocate it....scientology likes it)


21 posted on 09/22/2007 8:21:35 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Man50D
It also taxes consumption because hidden taxes are factored into the price.

And you think corporations are going to "unhide" this factor and lower the price?
22 posted on 09/22/2007 8:21:58 PM PDT by elizabetty (Don't Taze Me Bro')
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To: longtermmemmory
Illegal aliens sue to obtain their “justice” share of their prebate.

Don't forget for illegal aliens suing for the right to vote in federal elections as they are taxed without representation.

23 posted on 09/22/2007 8:34:00 PM PDT by kingu (No, I don't use sarcasm tags - it confuses people.)
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To: kingu

so how quickly would this fair tax become an internet sales tax? about .0000000000000000000000000000001 nanoseconds.

Fair tax will torpedo the US ecconomy as internet based sales flood offshore.

HECK even internet banking will go offshore to avoid the burden of this joke.


24 posted on 09/22/2007 8:38:11 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Man50D

Very true... so we’re getting it from both ends.


25 posted on 09/22/2007 8:40:22 PM PDT by navyguy (Some days you are the pigeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: elizabetty

If the income tax is removed, and the law says that you are now entitled to that money, and the business doesn’t give it to you its called theft.


26 posted on 09/22/2007 8:42:17 PM PDT by navyguy (Some days you are the pigeon, some days you are the statue.)
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To: longtermmemmory
Every single business now has a NEW BURDEN of being a sales tax collector for the federal government.

Businesses already do... Try not collecting FICA or SS for your employees, and not turning in W2s...

27 posted on 09/22/2007 8:43:48 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Tagline: Kinda like a chorus line but without the legs)
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To: kingu
My predictions: 22% of small businesses go under in the first two months of FairTax as all utilities, rent, leases are taxed at a 30% rate, followed by half of small business dying within the first year. Credit card transactions come with a built in fee to cover the tax portion of the bill as remaining small businesses try to not lose any more money.

Guess again. Business to business taxes will be abolished. Fair Tax FAQ #1

New home sales tank as the 30% tax immediately improves the value of any used property.

Fallacy #2. You forget several key points. The effective rate(after the prebate) will lower the tax burden as people will not be taxed on necessities up to the poverty level. Only the wealthiest of the population will pay close to the maximum rate but they will be able to afford big ticket items. People will have more purchasing power with the elimination of federal income taxes from their paychecks. Interest rates on mortgages will drop due to the elimination of corporate taxes and much lower compliance costs. Businesses will be forced to pass those cost savings onto the consumer or lose business to their competitors.

Used car lots become the thing to invest in as new cars overnight go up in price by 30%.

This ignores the facts any used time has a much shorter life span than a new item. People will be able to afford new cars for the same reasons states above for homes.

Congress is faced with an incredible flood of cash, the largest they've ever had, as the ill thought out FairTax rate proves to far exceed government expenditures, leading to even more socialization with a New New Deal supporting liberals to one of the largest landslides in election history as people throw out the people who brought this inanely huge tax rate onto every purchase, everywhere.


The only point your missing is the fact The Fair Tax is revenue neutral It will collect the same amount of tax as the income tax. Fair Tax FAQ #6. No more and no less. You should read the The Fair Tax Act Of 2007 and read information at the Americans For Fair Taxation website before making anymore wild assumptions that clearly reflect you don't have any knowledge about The Fair Tax.
28 posted on 09/22/2007 8:45:54 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: navyguy
If the income tax is removed, and the law says that you are now entitled to that money, and the business doesn’t give it to you its called theft.

Profit is called theft? If a company is charging $10 for a Widget today they can charge $10 for it after the Fair Tax is enacted.

I will give you a real life example. Some dog food companies sell a 40 pound bag of dog food for X price. They will reduce the amount of food to 38 or 35 pounds, not so much you would notice, and keep the price the same. Then several months later they will label their bags "New 40 pound Size" and up the price.

Are they thieves?
29 posted on 09/22/2007 8:51:23 PM PDT by elizabetty (Don't Taze Me Bro')
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To: elizabetty
And you think corporations are going to "unhide" this factor and lower the price?

They will be forced to pass on the cost savings due to competition. You only need to look at the airline industry as one example. As soon as one airline lowers its fares the rest follow.
30 posted on 09/22/2007 8:51:49 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: navyguy
Very true... so we’re getting it from both ends.

Yep.
31 posted on 09/22/2007 8:52:39 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: Man50D

All the retirees living on savings will love paying taxes when they spend their already taxed nestegg.

It is a stupid idea.


32 posted on 09/22/2007 9:09:31 PM PDT by nvcdl
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

go flames! no pun intended


33 posted on 09/22/2007 9:22:12 PM PDT by Disciplinemisanthropy (...and that, friends, is what grinds my gears.)
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To: Man50D
Guess again. Business to business taxes will be abolished. Fair Tax FAQ #1

Factory leases are not taxed, but any normal 'business expense' including advertising, retail store leases, utilities, are all, according to even the FairTax organization, subject to taxes. Only raw materials, store stock, or any other item which is transfered at the time of wholesale purchase is exempt. Oh, and shipping is taxed.

You forget several key points. The effective rate(after the prebate) will lower the tax burden as people will not be taxed on necessities up to the poverty level.

As the vast majority of Americans are far above the 'federal poverty level', the prebate covers a minority of their tax burden.

This ignores the facts any used time has a much shorter life span than a new item. People will be able to afford new cars for the same reasons states above for homes.

Been absolutely uninvolved in retail sales, I see. People will drive 25 miles to save a dollar, far exceeding the savings in gas usage and time. Go ask any auto mechanic how many 'rebuilds' they sale vs 'new parts'. Oh, wait, that's not on the FairTax faq.

The only point your missing is the fact The Fair Tax is revenue neutral It will collect the same amount of tax as the income tax. Fair Tax FAQ #6.

As the majority of the FairTax Faq is written by people who are armchair economists who depend upon the grossly underreported and underrepresented Federal GDP numbers, I contend that the FairTax, even if it has only a 20% fraud rate by retailers, will result in a net increase of income for the federal government of seventy percent. Even if /every/ item a small business uses in the course of retail sales becomes exempt, which the law, as written, does not currently exempt.

Oh, and for whomever pointed out that businesses have to file W2's already anyway, well, every property owner in the US who rents out property will also have to file a monthly form, as well as businesses who at present only have to file quarterly returns. The burden of paperwork dramatically increases under these new laws, not reduces, and as well, all businesses with employees continue to be required to report income yearly for their employees.

34 posted on 09/22/2007 9:24:56 PM PDT by kingu (No, I don't use sarcasm tags - it confuses people.)
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To: CyberAnt

By Rush’s own definition of what a conservative should do, stand on principles, Rush should be supporting the Fairtax.

Rush is not supporting the Fairtax because he thinks it will never be passed.

If Rush listened to himself, he would support the Fairtax, because it is purist definition of conservatism wrapped up in a house bill which addresses taxes.


35 posted on 09/23/2007 12:03:05 AM PDT by netvictory
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To: CyberAnt

By Rush’s own definition of what a conservative should do, stand on principles, Rush should be supporting the Fairtax.

Rush is not supporting the Fairtax because he thinks it will never be passed.

If Rush listened to himself, he would support the Fairtax, because it is purist definition of conservatism wrapped up in a house bill which addresses taxes.


36 posted on 09/23/2007 12:03:15 AM PDT by netvictory
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To: nvcdl

You are a moron because retirees are pay imbedded tax now on what they spend. Products will not cost anymore than they do today. Go to the fairtax.org website and read. You might learn something, maybe.

You have never been to Fairtax rally or meeting and seen on the grey hairs running around. I’m 48 years old and usually the youngest guy standing around.

Pull you head your head out your... and go see for yourself.


37 posted on 09/23/2007 12:08:44 AM PDT by netvictory
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To: netvictory

Three new predictions.

George Soros commits suicide.

Divorce is cut in half because American families now have 22.65% to 34.65% more spending money in their paychecks and are starting to learn how to save. Focus on the Family’s, Dr. Dobson, repents of evolution and accepts the Bible’s account of creation.

The most effective sign seen in front of George Tiller’s Clinic, “Don’t Abort Your Prebate Check”.


38 posted on 09/23/2007 12:11:28 AM PDT by netvictory
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To: longtermmemmory

You have not read anything about the Fairtax have you. You are just talking out your ass because it’s what you do.


39 posted on 09/23/2007 12:15:01 AM PDT by netvictory
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
When the FairTax is enacted is the day the Stanley Cup finals will be held in Hell.

There are three ice rinks in Miami and that's damn close.

40 posted on 09/23/2007 1:39:06 AM PDT by cowboyway (My heroes have always been Cowboys)
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To: netvictory
The Fair Tax is not fair and it will never happen. The basic problem is, it does not terminate the existing tax laws before enacting the new law.
41 posted on 09/23/2007 3:12:29 AM PDT by tiger-one (The night has a thousand eyes)
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To: netvictory
There's a lot of appeal to the FairTax, most particularly the promise it holds out for the abolition of the IRS and its anti-Constitutional privileges. But one must try to look at the bad as well as the good:

I think I'd support the FairTax, but I'd also accept a Constitutionally fixed Flat Tax a la Steve Forbes, provided we could guarantee that no ball-hidden-under-the-jersey loophole for increasing it or adding other taxes to it lurked behind it.

Don't let the best be the enemy of the good, guys and dolls.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Eternity Road

42 posted on 09/23/2007 3:28:32 AM PDT by fporretto (This tagline is programming you in ways that will not be apparent for years. Forget! Forget!)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

When the FairTax is enacted is the day the Stanley Cup finals will be held in Hell.
********************************************
Didn’t Tampa Bay win a few years back?? Thats a pretty far cry from Alberta..


43 posted on 09/23/2007 3:31:25 AM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: fporretto
But one must try to look at the bad as well as the good:

If the shift from the Income Tax to the FairTax were immediate, there would be huge dislocations in our economy.

Based on what facts do you make this statement? This vague statement lacks any credibility without any detailed facts to backup your claim. Based on what facts do you make this statement?

If the shift were gradual, those who favor the Income Tax (and Big, anti-Constitutional government) would be able to find a way to keep them both.

Three reason why that won't happen: (1) it abolishes the IRS, (2) The Fair Tax repeals all statutory language having to do with taxing income and payroll (i.e., the Internal Revenue Code), and (3) it eliminates the filing of annual income tax returns to the federal government for over 140 million Americans. Fair Tax FAQ #50. Also House Joint Resolution 16(HJR16) will repeal the 16th Amendment.

There would, of necessity, be a new bureaucracy at the federal level, whose mission is FairTax collection and enforcement. That bureaucracy would likely have the same powers as the IRS -- but over businesses this time.

This is flat out wrong. The already existing Treasury Department will be the taxing authority and will not have the same powers as the IRS. You forget the IRS goes after individuals because their income is taxed. Abolishing the income tax will end that practice since people will be paying a consumption tax at the point of sale. The government will only be assessing businesses, not individuals.

We would have to find something to do with a quarter million tax lawyers and a half million tax accountants -- and weighing then down with concrete blocks and dumping them into the ocean would upset the hell out of the greenies.

We would have to? People who are laid off are required to find their own jobs. I've been laid off and always had to take the initiative to find another job. There maybe assistance to help them find jobs but there is no requirement. Regardless of that fact, you're talking about well educated, highly trained individuals seeking employment in an expanding economy due to the implementation of The Fair Tax.

I think I'd support the FairTax, but I'd also accept a Constitutionally fixed Flat Tax a la Steve Forbes, provided we could guarantee that no ball-hidden-under-the-jersey loophole for increasing it or adding other taxes to it lurked behind it.

There are four Flat Tax related bills before Congress. The most number of Cosponsors anyone of them have is four. The Fair Tax has 65 and consistently growing. It is becoming more likely The Fair Tax has a much greater chance of passing. The Flat Tax will retain the IRS including at least some of the loopholes and exemptions you don't want. The Fair Tax will eliminate exemptions and loopholes.
44 posted on 09/23/2007 5:15:36 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: kingu
As small business represents the largest segment of employment, the economy immediately spirals into the largest recession in modern US history. New home sales tank as the 30% tax immediately improves the value of any used property. Used car lots become the thing to invest in as new cars overnight go up in price by 30%. Employer provided health insurance immediately tanks as that too goes up 30% overnight

My contention also.

We've seen how the home sales market affects the economy in general. The Fair Tax will kill it.
New construction and the auto industry will die.

Anyone who thinks mfgrs. will pass on their savings in 'hidden' taxes to the consumer are smoking some good stuff.

I give you, as an example the 'sugar crisis' circa mid 70's.
Sugar prices went sky high.
Soft drink companies raised the price of a soft drink exponentially, including artificially sweetened drinks.
When sugar prices returned to normal, guess what, soft drinks stayed at their high levels.

I contend the same logic will be used again by companies.

45 posted on 09/23/2007 6:24:46 AM PDT by Vinnie (You're Nobody 'Til Somebody Jihads You)
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To: netvictory

by Rush’s own statements the OVERWHELMING INCREASE in government intrusion and INCREASING in taxable goods and services will be ANTI-conservative.

The prebate ALONE is a communist agenda item. A prebate to each according to their needs, a prebate taken from each according to their abilities.

It is PURE insanity. OVERNIGHT every single renter will have their taxes SHOOT UP to cover the fair tax. Most ALL residential and commercial leases have passthrough clauses for taxes.

Why would Rush support ANYTHING that taxes Rush 24/7 subscriptions when the tax is zero now.


46 posted on 09/23/2007 6:27:15 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: netvictory

I have actually read the materials.

In fact it is mostly supporters who have convinced me to go from “whatever” to very against the Fair Sales Tax scam.

It is the constant lies and deciet of supporters of this scam, their refusal to acknowledge the SERIOUS flaws in their system.

Given their delusional support, I would submit there IS credence to the fact fair tax supporters are connected to scientologists given their mental behavior.


47 posted on 09/23/2007 6:30:32 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Vinnie

if double taxation is a problem now, consider when EVERY SINGLE raw material purchase is taxed along the production line.

The oil is taxed when made into plastic is taxed to make the switch is taxed when sold to the car maker is taxed when the car is sold to the consumer. QUADRUPPLE.


48 posted on 09/23/2007 6:35:11 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Man50D
If the shift from the Income Tax to the FairTax were immediate, there would be huge dislocations in our economy.

"Based on what facts do you make this statement? This vague statement lacks any credibility without any detailed facts to backup your claim. Based on what facts do you make this statement?"

Are Sunday mornings difficult for you, sir? The American economy is a wealthy economy, a very large percentage of which is made up of "luxury" industries kept in business by wholly discretionary spending. Such industries possess elastic demand curves; changes in price produce swift, proportional changes in demand. If we were to transfer the tax burden immediately from incomes to sales, the "luxury" industries would suffer an immediate, sharp increase in the effective prices of their wares. The "necessity" industries -- food, clothing, shelter, fuel, and the like -- are highly inelastic; their demand curves would not be nearly as greatly disturbed. A little economics is all it takes to proceed from there.

If the shift were gradual, those who favor the Income Tax (and Big, anti-Constitutional government) would be able to find a way to keep them both.

"Three reason why that won't happen: (1) it abolishes the IRS, (2) The Fair Tax repeals all statutory language having to do with taxing income and payroll (i.e., the Internal Revenue Code), and (3) it eliminates the filing of annual income tax returns to the federal government for over 140 million Americans. Fair Tax FAQ #50. Also House Joint Resolution 16(HJR16) will repeal the 16th Amendment."

My word, some people really should learn to read before they attempt to write. The very first words of my statement were "If the shift were gradual." That presumes that your Utopian scenario, in which the income tax and the IRS are iummediately abolished, does not arise. If the income tax and a federal sales tax were allowed to coexist for a few years, you can bet your bottom dollar -- probably all the rest of them, too -- that powerful forces would marshal in an attempt to keep them both. No government in history has ever surrendered any aspect of its power of taxation without being displaced by a revolution, which makes this a particularly ominous possibility.

There would, of necessity, be a new bureaucracy at the federal level, whose mission is FairTax collection and enforcement. That bureaucracy would likely have the same powers as the IRS -- but over businesses this time.

"This is flat out wrong. The already existing Treasury Department will be the taxing authority and will not have the same powers as the IRS. You forget the IRS goes after individuals because their income is taxed. Abolishing the income tax will end that practice since people will be paying a consumption tax at the point of sale. The government will only be assessing businesses, not individuals."

Yet another demonstration of willful incomprehension. The existing Treasury Department is far too small to provide the tax police required by a law that mandates tax collection from America's four million businesses. Businesses are likely to mandate more scrutiny and enforcement than individual income taxation ever did, because their largely unmonitored cash flow is traditionally the vehicle by which the well-to-do have evaded taxation. Even in your optimum scenario in which the IRS vanishes and all income tax collection ends at once, that will require a massive new agency of assessment and collection -- and it might well have the same anti-Constitutional coercive power as the IRS. This is what thinkers call a consequence. Look into the concept; you might find it useful.

We would have to find something to do with a quarter million tax lawyers and a half million tax accountants -- and weighing then down with concrete blocks and dumping them into the ocean would upset the hell out of the greenies.

"We would have to? People who are laid off are required to find their own jobs. I've been laid off and always had to take the initiative to find another job. There maybe assistance to help them find jobs but there is no requirement. Regardless of that fact, you're talking about well educated, highly trained individuals seeking employment in an expanding economy due to the implementation of The Fair Tax."

We're talking about well educated, highly trained individuals who share two other characteristics as well:

That makes it likely that any law that greatly alters the tax system will be written to incorporate some sort of subvention for them. It's not absolutely certain, but it's something to watch out for.

Be an enthusiast for the FairTax if you like -- as I wrote above, I support it myself -- but be a realist about political dynamics and the likelihood of unintended consequences. Oh, there's that word again. Anyway, I'd like to recommend that you acquire a book, a very special book: Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language. I find it invaluable. It's not profusely illustrated, but you'll probably get some use out of it even so.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Eternity Road

49 posted on 09/23/2007 6:37:01 AM PDT by fporretto (This tagline is programming you in ways that will not be apparent for years. Forget! Forget!)
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To: netvictory; Man50D
Please tell me this article is satire : )

In some ways I like the fair tax because it seems to be functionally equivalent to the VAT, but I will never, never, never support it unless the amendment to the constitution for income taxes is repealed, first.

The last thing in the world that I want to see is two tax systems. Yes I know the fair taxers want to do away with the income tax, but this is just a bill, like any others before congress. It can be modified and changed 10 minutes after it has been passed.

50 posted on 09/23/2007 6:44:22 AM PDT by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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