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Green Berets Face Hearing on Killing of Suspect in Afghan Village
New York Times ^ | Published: September 18, 2007 | PAUL von ZIELBAUER

Posted on 09/23/2007 6:40:25 AM PDT by bigheadfred

FORT BRAGG, N.C., Sept. 17 — From his position about 100 yards away, Master Sgt. Troy Anderson had a clear shot at the Afghan man standing outside a residential compound in a village near the Pakistan border last October. When Capt. Dave Staffel, the Special Forces officer in charge, gave the order to shoot, Sergeant Anderson fired a bullet into the man’s head, killing him.

In June, Captain Staffel and Sergeant Anderson were charged with premeditated murder. On Tuesday, in a rare public examination of the rules that govern the actions of Special Operations troops in Afghanistan, a military hearing will convene at Fort Bragg to weigh the evidence against the two men, both Green Berets.

The case revolves around differing interpretations of the kind of force that the Special Forces team that hunted and killed the man, Nawab Buntangyar, were allowed to use once they found him, apparently unarmed.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; davestaffel; fortbragg; iskandriyah; oef; sgtevanvela; snipers; troyanderson

1 posted on 09/23/2007 6:40:29 AM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred

This is exactly the type of missions my nephew has been engaged in, in Iraq. He is also being charged with premeditated murder, etc.


2 posted on 09/23/2007 6:44:05 AM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred
I suppose this says it all:

"In an interview, Mr. Waple said that General Kearney proceeded with murder charges against the two soldiers even after an investigation by the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command concluded in April that the shooting had been “justifiable homicide.”

Also the comment by the defendants atty that this had a "whiff of politics"seems obvious given his recent promotion.

This kids will be exonerated but that will be buried in the back section of the slimes somewhere it will least be noticed.

I seriously cannot understand how the heroes in uniform find the will to carry on given their constantly being undermined by scumbag like this damn fool of a General.

3 posted on 09/23/2007 6:48:51 AM PDT by Eagles Talon IV
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To: bigheadfred

I think it’s disgusting that they second guess our MILITARY, our POLICE & those in authority who are doing their JOBS.


4 posted on 09/23/2007 6:52:27 AM PDT by FES0844 (FES0844)
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To: bigheadfred

“SUSPECT?”

Very peculiar and inappropriate word to use in reference to the enemy.

This is a war, not a criminal investigation or a police matter.

In wars , there have “enemies”. In police work, there are “suspects” and “actors” and “witnesses”.

Too many just can’t adjust to the paradigm of being at war.


5 posted on 09/23/2007 6:54:09 AM PDT by I_Like_Spam
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To: bigheadfred
From the article

Mark Waple, a civilian lawyer representing Captain Staffel, said the charges against his client and Sergeant Anderson carry a whiff of “military politics.” In an interview, Mr. Waple said that General Kearney proceeded with murder charges against the two soldiers even after an investigation by the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command concluded in April that the shooting had been “justifiable homicide.”

And...

Also scheduled to testify is Sgt. First Class Scott R. Haarer, a paralegal on General Kearney’s staff last October who, as part of the military justice procedure, signed the forms that charged Captain Staffel and Sergeant Anderson with murder.

In a notarized statement, Sergeant Haarer told defense lawyers last week that he would not have accused the soldiers of any crime if he had known that the Criminal Investigation Command had determined that the shooting was justified.

Sounds as if somebody has a personal axe to grind against other persons.

My son heads to Afghanistan sometime after the new year. On top of everything else, he doesn't need this kind of $#!t.

6 posted on 09/23/2007 6:56:07 AM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: FES0844
I think it’s disgusting that they second guess our MILITARY, our POLICE & those in authority who are doing their JOBS.

No, it is not disgusting. On many fronts it is a good and necessary thing. Special Operations frequently examines and critiques their operations. They do this to increase the efficiency of their operations, and avoid mistakes. They even taped the Jessica Lynch rescue operation.

This team was second-guessed by the proper authorities...and their actions were found to be justified.

It appears that somebody at higher command level has some personal problems, and his actions need to be second-guessed.

7 posted on 09/23/2007 7:01:27 AM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: bigheadfred
Political correctness on the battle field is a recipe for defeat. Military leaders who put PC above the safety of our troops are traitors, and they should be court marshaled.
8 posted on 09/23/2007 7:01:50 AM PDT by vox humana
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To: I_Like_Spam

Here is a link to my nephew’s plight.
http://sergeantevanveladefensefund.org/ Also some of his story. http://www.freerepublic.com/%5Ehttp://warchronicle.com/TheyAreNotKillers/Iskandariyah/DefendOurTroops.htm


9 posted on 09/23/2007 7:03:44 AM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord

This cases is causing quite the stir with Military Moms. They are hearing a lack of confidence in General Kearney’s political motivations. Troops are calling mom and dad to complain.


10 posted on 09/23/2007 7:05:41 AM PDT by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: bigheadfred

We can start redeployment by bringing the JAGS home or reassigning them to a new MOS, rifleman. Even better we can send them out unarmed to check for IED’s at night along the Iranian border.


11 posted on 09/23/2007 7:07:59 AM PDT by Steamburg (Your wallet speaks the only language most politicians understand.)
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To: Steamburg
We can start redeployment by bringing the JAGS home or reassigning them to a new MOS, rifleman. Even better we can send them out unarmed to check for IED’s at night along the Iranian border.

Just leave them alone, and let them do their job---serving arrest warrants at suspects' compounds....

12 posted on 09/23/2007 7:19:53 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: bigheadfred

Harry Truman said, “The buck stops here.”

A president is bound to have a few bad apples in his administration. We are talking about millions of people working under him. But there are patterns here, and Bush has done NOTHING to correct them.

The FBI continues its clintonoid mission of going after corrupt Republican politicians but ignoring the Democrats.

The CIA is stuffed full of leftists who leak vital national secrets to the press and the enemy and constantly undermine the administration.

The military legal staffs are full of vile, anti-war clintonoids. They did this to the Haditha marines, and now are doing it again. The assumption is that some of the leaders are bad apples. Well, why are they not being demoted or punished for this behavior? Why does the chain of command sit by while they are rewarded?

Where is our President?

Much as I despised clinton, at least he had the good sense to keep his administration in line and fire anyone who was disloyal. If a criminal leader can do that, why can’t it be done for the sake of right and justice? Or at least more than feebly attempted?


13 posted on 09/23/2007 7:24:41 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: ApplegateRanch

Good one. Sadly, I’m afraid that they will require direction to the compounds that contain “suspects” instead of friendlies.


14 posted on 09/23/2007 7:28:07 AM PDT by Steamburg (Your wallet speaks the only language most politicians understand.)
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To: bigheadfred
Far too many liberal lawyers have been layered throughout our Pentagon, State Department, and our Military. They do not understand war and are busy appeasing the Lamestream media. By doing so, they are appeasing the enemy.
15 posted on 09/23/2007 7:31:38 AM PDT by Paige ("Facts are stubborn things." President Ronald Reagan)
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To: Cicero

This Army General, Kearney, needs to be brought to the White House and fired face-to-face. He is a lackey of a former General (and Democrap candidate for President)who was fired after his screwups in Bosnia. They are all part of a liberal cabal that has infected our military and were promoted by the Clintons. President Bush owes it to the troops to stop this constant B.S. by Kearney and his flunkies, and start acting as Commander-in-Chief.


16 posted on 09/23/2007 7:33:22 AM PDT by geezerwheezer (get up boys, we're burnin' daylight!!!)
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To: bigheadfred; 1stbn27; 2111USMC; 2nd Bn, 11th Mar; 68 grunt; A.A. Cunningham; ASOC; ...
In a notarized statement, Sergeant Haarer told defense lawyers last week that he would not have accused the soldiers of any crime if he had known that the Criminal Investigation Command had determined that the shooting was justified.

Lt. Gen. Peter W. Chiarelli, concluded in the Haditha case, that senior officers failed to follow up on inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the initial reporting of the incident that should have raised questions.

And Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis, the commander of the Marine Corps Forces Central Command, determined that the three officers’ (General Huck, Colonels Davis and Sokoloski) “actions, or inactions, demonstrated lack of due diligence on the part of senior commanders and staff.”

How can men who have been cleared keep being charged? JAGs continue to step over the line.

17 posted on 09/23/2007 7:33:50 AM PDT by freema
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To: Steamburg

We can start redeployment by bringing the JAGS home or reassigning them to a new MOS, rifleman. Even better we can send them out unarmed to check for IED’s at night along the Iranian border.

Experience of some kind should be a prerequisite. In my nephew’s case , his JAG’s were inexperienced and incompetent, having him waive his Article 32 hearing and pressing for him to take the 17 years in Leavenworth. Putting a gun in their hands would probably result in a lot less JAG’s.


18 posted on 09/23/2007 7:37:11 AM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: freema

There are too many people in positions of power who ain;t worth the paper they are printed on.


19 posted on 09/23/2007 8:07:24 AM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: freema
How can men who have been cleared keep being charged? JAGs continue to step over the line.

From what I've read about this case in Afghanistan it's Lt. Gen. Kearney that insisted these soldiers be charged with murder even after Army Criminal Investigations declared the shooting proper, sounds like Kearney is in the CYA mode. Don't know if any responsibility lies with JAGs or not but in my view Kearney doesn't give a damn about his troops.

20 posted on 09/23/2007 8:23:14 AM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.com)
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To: jazusamo

That’s a very good point. Yet it seems the Sargeant had the leeway to not bring these charges, by his own notarized statement.


21 posted on 09/23/2007 8:59:37 AM PDT by freema
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To: freema
"How can men who have been cleared keep being charged? JAGs continue to step over the line."
Surely no one could argue with your point.
22 posted on 09/23/2007 9:15:39 AM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Duncan Hunter for POTUS)
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To: freema

That’s a good point too, Ma. I wondered about the Sergeant’s statement also and don’t know if it means someone else would have if he hadn’t or if no charges would have been filed. It’s not clear the way it was written.


23 posted on 09/23/2007 9:18:25 AM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.com)
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To: jazusamo; bigheadfred

slim pickings in finding background on Kearney

http://www.isrjournal.com/story.php?F=1754965

http://www.aogusma.org/soc/italy/

http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/ask/ask9.asp
(scroll down about 40% to the post from “COL FRANK KEARNEY”.....this page is about blackhawk down, the author taking questions.....)root page is here:
http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/

http://magickingdomdispatch.blogspot.com/2004_06_27_archive.html
scroll 40% to the paragraph that begins with:
To First Sergeant P’s left is A Company commander Francis “Frank” Kearney. Kearney “broke down” during the raid on Point Calivigny,snip

(now that I know his true first name is Francis, maybe will be easier to track)


24 posted on 09/23/2007 9:32:08 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: Eagles Talon IV
"In an interview, Mr. Waple said that General Kearney proceeded with murder charges against the two soldiers even after an investigation by the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command concluded in April that the shooting had been “justifiable homicide.”

In a war where the other side does not wear uniforms, has no strictly military bases, stuff like this is going to happen. CID shouldn't be involved, and they sure as heck shouldn't be ruling "justifiable homicide", which a criminal ruling, but rather something more like "in the line of duty".

25 posted on 09/23/2007 9:32:29 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: jazusamo; bigheadfred

bingo

http://www.google.com/custom?domains=magickingdomdispatch.blogspot.com&q=kearney&sa=Search&sitesearch=magickingdomdispatch.blogspot.com&client=pub-0398241691851515&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en


26 posted on 09/23/2007 9:36:45 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: armymarinemom
Bill O’Reilly has had several segments about this case on his show. I think that if he continues to spotlight it, the charges will be dismissed. It’s sad that it takes media coverage to get such a terrible mistake rectified, but apparently, the big cheeses in the Pentagon can’t take care of business in-house. I wish to heaven that these idiot paperpushers would stop embarrassing our troops on the international stage. There’s a war on, ya know!
27 posted on 09/23/2007 9:48:13 AM PDT by ishabibble (ALL-AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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“Navy lawyer balks at testifying at hearing”
http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=272750

snip

Mark L. Waple, who also is a lawyer for Staffel, said he has an e-mail from Lt. Gen. Francis H. Kearney III indicating that the general directed that charges be initiated because Fort Bragg would not do it. Kearney was commander of special operations for Central Command. He is deputy commander of U.S. Special Operations Command in Tampa, Fla.

People without government security clearances were frequently asked to leave the room during testimony that deal with tactics, methods of gathering information and “rules of engagement” that govern when soldiers can use force.

During the hearing, Special Forces soldiers testified that the person who was killed had been identified as a “bad guy” and “a target we tried to find.”

Lt. Col. Jim Friend, a former staff judge advocate for U.S. Army Special Forces Command at Fort Bragg, said he did not consider Nawab to be a civilian under the Geneva Conventions.

“He was a combatant,” Friend said.

Waple said after the hearing that the guidance can constitute unlawful command influence.

“From testimony we received today, it illustrates the process was fundamentally flawed,” Overholt said after the hearing.


28 posted on 09/23/2007 10:02:21 AM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

Thanks for the links. This whole thing really stinks, IMO. It appears the general is being over zealous as to the charges, especially after CID found they acted on orders and appropriately. I will say though that we may not know all the facts.


29 posted on 09/23/2007 10:12:10 AM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.com)
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To: El Gato

Kind of like “Breaker Morant”.
When politics takes hold, abandon all hope of ever seeing the truth.


30 posted on 09/23/2007 10:21:34 AM PDT by Yorlik803 ( When are we going to draw a line a say"this far and no farther")
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

What drives me crazy is how easy it is for people to focus on individual killings. It goes back to the saying, kill one person and you’re a murderer, kill thousands and you’re a conquerer, kill millions and you’re a god... We are at war, that is the only fact I need to know. It really helps to have people in the command structure, like Kearney, running in circles trying to bite their own tails.


31 posted on 09/23/2007 10:52:37 AM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred
This General must be a Clintonite, and somebody is leaning on him to tar and feather our troops.

What the hell does he think war is? This fellow is in the wrong century---he should be fighting for the British back in 1776!

32 posted on 09/23/2007 11:00:40 AM PDT by pray4liberty (Watch and pray.)
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To: bigheadfred

Oh, so ol’ Nawab was unarmed AT THE TIME. I truly don’t care that the man is dead. If Special Forces went after him, it was for a good reason. I’m so sick and tired of hearing about our troops being prosecuted for doing their job! What the hell is going on in our government?!?!?!


33 posted on 09/23/2007 1:48:20 PM PDT by fishergirl (My warrior, my soldier, my hero - my son. God bless our troops!)
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To: bigheadfred; freema; jazusamo; armymarinemom; Vn_survivor_67-68
Kearney is the same guy that was involved in the investigation of the incident in Afghanistan with MSOC and had the whole company expelled from Afghanistan in March, 2007. I haven't heard where this case is, at this point. Ilario Pantano was involved for a bit trying to get fundraising efforts up and running. Frank Kearney kicked the very first Marine Special Operations group to deploy in combat out of the country. It was unbelievable. Here's one link at Marine Corps Times Army general kicks Marines out of Afghanistan and another Spec ops commander relieved

It seems something funny may be going on with this general. There is something fishy about this current case. It doesn't pass the smell test.
34 posted on 09/23/2007 2:04:03 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: Girlene

Several things are a possibility: a recent operation removed his “twins”; they have swelled so big he is immersed in self aggrandizemnent; he is a puppet on a string, or he is a complete idiot, or combinations thereof. He may be overreacting to the Petreaus letter: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/media/images/vox/Values/Values
-Message.pdf
Whatever the case may be, the only decision he should be making is where to go to lunch. Alone.


35 posted on 09/23/2007 2:43:09 PM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: Cicero
A president is bound to have a few bad apples in his administration. We are talking about millions of people working under him. But there are patterns here, and Bush has done NOTHING to correct them...Where is our President?

In his debate with Joe Lieberman, Dick Cheney, in response to Kilnton's abuse of our military, said to our troops: "Help is on the way." Where is that help? Where is the Commander in Chief?

36 posted on 09/23/2007 2:49:31 PM PDT by Captainpaintball
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To: Girlene

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/media/images/vox/Values/Values-Message.pdf
Reposting that link


37 posted on 09/23/2007 2:50:21 PM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred; xzins; RedRover
Here's another link that describes the other controversy in Afghanistan that Frank Kearney was involved in with the Marines Special Op guys. It has a pretty good background of what's alleged in that case. Web site to raise support for MarSOC Marines

Your link to Gen. Patreaus' letter is interesting. It may have some impact on Kearney's actions. In this current case, the alleged incident happened in Oct. 13, 2006. Haditha and Hamdania cases may also have played a part to try to get ahead of the "stink" that media and local insurgents can bring to bear. This case with Anderson and Staffel doesn't pass the smell test of a crime by any means, IMO. Here's another link to this current case On Special Forces, Snipers and the ROE's.

How's the nephew doing?
38 posted on 09/23/2007 3:14:04 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: DevSix

.


39 posted on 09/23/2007 3:29:38 PM PDT by fso301
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To: Girlene

He’s doing great, all 11 of them. lol
Thanks for the links.


40 posted on 09/23/2007 4:23:02 PM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: Girlene

One thing for sure. Kearney will never be censured!


41 posted on 09/23/2007 4:33:02 PM PDT by RedRover (DefendOurMarines.com)
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To: RedRover

They’ll probably give him another star.


42 posted on 09/23/2007 4:51:39 PM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred

Hopefully, the media attention will diminsh his chances of ever getting one. These cases never go as planned when there’s scrutiny from outside.


43 posted on 09/23/2007 5:24:23 PM PDT by RedRover
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord; bigheadfred; RedRover
On occasion a non-SpecOp type gets command in the special forces arena. That's not the case with Gen Kearney. He's an old Ranger guy who's had plenty of SpecOp experience. This doesn't add up to me. I could see the criminal guys pushing something like this, but it's really odd that it's the commander.

I thought it might be the part about his being unarmed, that maybe they wanted him as a prisoner for interrogation in such a circumstance, but that would be against the captain who gave the shoot order and not the troops on the ground.

The case revolves around differing interpretations of the kind of force that the Special Forces team that hunted and killed the man, Nawab Buntangyar, were allowed to use once they found him, apparently unarmed.

Then, I thought that this was another in a long line of CYOA activities in the US Army. There's an appearance this guy might already have been a POW with the police, but they signaled to the SF that this was the right guy, and the SF guys shot him from about a 100 yards away. But, the CID investigation would have provided all the CYA support that would be needed. They found the action justifiable.

So, if it isn't CYOA and it isn't "need to interrogate prisoner," then all that's left is conjecture.

Something personal? Something political? Kearney knows, and he should have to take the stand.

44 posted on 09/23/2007 6:45:53 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins

Maybe it is local politics, tit for tat, you give us this, we’ll give you that, or maybe he just doesn’t know what the is going on.He may be someone’s lackey, people who will go to any length to cause enough hate and discontent, to force an early withdrawal. We’ll probably be seeing more of these cases, Nazario’s as one in point, where matters that should be closed are rehashed to the detriment of everyone.


45 posted on 09/23/2007 7:48:34 PM PDT by bigheadfred
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To: El Gato
Lawyers are continually used to determine actions in this war. I’m surprised you weren’t aware of this. In any case these boys did absolutely nothing wrong and will be exonerated. Unfortunately the damage will have been done..

No question in my mind this charging of the soldiers with murder was completely political in nature.

46 posted on 09/24/2007 5:45:40 AM PDT by Eagles Talon IV
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To: Captainpaintball
In his debate with Joe Lieberman, Dick Cheney, in response to Kilnton's abuse of our military, said to our troops: "Help is on the way." Where is that help? Where is the Commander in Chief?

That's the question. We are talking about concepts like honor and loyalty, without which you can't have a real military.

Honor cuts both ways. It means that the troops serve their commander-in-chief, who represents their country, and in return he does his best for them. They are loyal to him, and he is supposed to be loyal to them.

Honor and loyalty broke down when the clintons were in the White House, with obviously malign results for military morale. How can you loyally serve leaders who clearly despise you, and who only dubiously act on behalf of their country? Who give you questionable orders and when you obey them leave you hanging out to dry?

The problem isn't nearly as bad with President Bush. He is a good man who clearly supports the troops, is patriotic, and is attempting to act for the good of the country.

Except when he doesn't. Except when he refuses to reward honor with honor, and loyalty with loyalty. A few instances might be seen as accidental lapses or inattention by a busy man with many burdens. But it happens all the time, and very publicly. And it extends to figures like Scooter Libby, too. How can you expect loyalty from the people who are working under you if you never return the favor? It almost seems as if Bush would rather give up on his real friends, who serve him loyally, than people like Teddy Kennedy, who stab him in the back.

47 posted on 09/24/2007 9:23:52 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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