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Veterans Disarmament Act To Bar Vets From Owning Guns
GOA ^ | Sept, 2007 | Larry Pratt

Posted on 09/23/2007 11:18:35 AM PDT by AuntB

Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.

How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.

This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.

The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away... forever. It is section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.

No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation.

The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY). Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.

Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.

But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you're talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans' names that are taking place under federal level. Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).

So how will this bill make things even worse? Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on veterans' gun rights.

One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.

The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser. Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).

Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed. It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred -- for life -- from owning guns.

Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.

Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong. If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.

If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: 110th; 2ndamendment; banglist; fundraisinglie; goa; gunowners; hr2640; ptsd; rkba; veterans; vets
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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I searched FR for this. Not much. It has passed the house by voice vote, so no record of the traitors.

Evidently NRA supports it and claims it will not do what GOA says. More analysis here: http://republicanmichigander.blogspot.com/2007/06/gun-bill-passes-house-hr2640.html

Here is Thomas on the bill: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:h.r.02640:

1 posted on 09/23/2007 11:18:38 AM PDT by AuntB
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To: AuntB
OMG ... can we please get past this? The GOA says that the NRA are a bunch of gun grabbing socialists, and the NRA says different.

My opinion is that the bill doesn't even begin to do what the GOA says and that this is just more of the same old GOA tactic of attacking their friends in order to drum up some cash.

It really does get old fast.

2 posted on 09/23/2007 11:25:39 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE)
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To: AuntB

It’s one reason (among others) why mental “disorders” are overdiagnosed. It disqualifies you from many things, including your rights.


3 posted on 09/23/2007 11:27:52 AM PDT by SteveMcKing
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To: AuntB

some time ago I walked out of a VA Mental hygene clinic
because the fat broad who drew me was more interested
about two things with zero relevance. The guns I own—
and my sex life. I will be writnig letters— and I will
be keeping my guns up / loaded/ and ready to rock n roll


4 posted on 09/23/2007 11:31:45 AM PDT by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: SteveMcKing
That’s not true. Medical records remain private unless you’ve been judged incompetent by a court of law. The doctor can accuse you of anything he likes.
5 posted on 09/23/2007 11:32:01 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE)
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To: tcostell

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:3:./temp/~c110FVLssV::

Read it and say the same!


6 posted on 09/23/2007 11:32:56 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
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To: tcostell

There are a million threads out there about this.


7 posted on 09/23/2007 11:33:03 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE)
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To: AuntB

COSPONSORS(17), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]: (Sort: by date)
Rep Bishop, Timothy H. [NY-1] - 6/11/2007
Rep Boucher, Rick [VA-9] - 6/11/2007
Rep Capps, Lois [CA-23] - 6/11/2007
Rep Castle, Michael N. [DE] - 6/11/2007
Rep Christensen, Donna M. [VI] - 6/13/2007
Rep Dingell, John D. [MI-15] - 6/11/2007
Rep Emanuel, Rahm [IL-5] - 6/11/2007
Rep Lowey, Nita M. [NY-18] - 6/11/2007
Rep Moore, Dennis [KS-3] - 6/11/2007
Rep Moran, James P. [VA-8] - 6/11/2007
Rep Pascrell, Bill, Jr. [NJ-8] - 6/11/2007
Rep Ross, Mike [AR-4] - 6/13/2007
Rep Schakowsky, Janice D. [IL-9] - 6/11/2007
Rep Shays, Christopher [CT-4] - 6/11/2007
Rep Sherman, Brad [CA-27] - 6/12/2007
Rep Smith, Lamar [TX-21] - 6/11/2007
Rep Wasserman Schultz, Debbie [FL-20] - 6/11/2007

THOMAS Home | Contact | Accessibility | Legal | FirstGov


8 posted on 09/23/2007 11:37:30 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
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To: StonyBurk
The guns I own—and my sex life.

The ONLY person I've met that associated guns and s-e-x was a
very bright guy from New York who was in dental school at the
University of Oklahoma at the time.

Nice guy...but somehow his time above the Mason-Dixon line gave
him some CRAZY ideas about some BIZARRE association of gun ownership
and sexual gratification.

He must have adopted the story line of The Beatles "Happiness
Is A Warm Gun" hook, line and sinker.

PS: I do remember "Stoney Burke" and Jack Lord.
And yes, that does date me a bit.
9 posted on 09/23/2007 11:37:48 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Joe Brower; B4Ranch; river rat; Squantos
Unbelievable!!


10 posted on 09/23/2007 11:41:33 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com--)
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To: tcostell

I hope you are right. Did you read the bill? The list of leftie sponsors are pretty scary.


11 posted on 09/23/2007 11:42:43 AM PDT by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: AuntB

Back Again— When I was serving on active Duty and assigned to the PCZ (Panama Canal Zone)I was given copy of an official US Dept. of State Pamphlet Living at peace in a world without war Doc. #7277 prepared for JFK setting up a new government beurocracy and three stage plan to disarm the United States—and arm the United Nations. To my knowledge this has Never been dismantled. But has been
internalized. Does seem true this bit of legislation is
proof the evil remains alive.7277 is pretty much the
dominant conspiracy theory worthy of discussion.


12 posted on 09/23/2007 11:43:36 AM PDT by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: Travis McGee

I’m still reading, but have to stop a while. I haven’t found anything in the bill yet that mentions vets and ptsd.


13 posted on 09/23/2007 11:45:29 AM PDT by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: tcostell
Medical records remain private unless you’ve been judged incompetent by a court of law. The doctor can accuse you of anything he likes.

Maybe when a few of those "doctors" get locked up for perjury and other things, they'll learn a lesson.

14 posted on 09/23/2007 11:45:29 AM PDT by darkangel82 (Socialism is NOT an American value.)
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To: AuntB

amazing!

and i know a tv-moron union democrap that would support this.

she’s a bush hater too.


15 posted on 09/23/2007 11:47:48 AM PDT by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
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To: AuntB
It seems to me like they would be able to ban all veterans from owning firearms! This would be the for the fact that they were a threat to others! Um, ah, like the enemy!
16 posted on 09/23/2007 11:51:11 AM PDT by enuf
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To: VOA
He must have adopted the story line of The Beatles "Happiness Is A Warm Gun" hook, line and sinker.

______________________________________________

"Happiness is a Warm Gun" is about shooting heroin, not firearms.

17 posted on 09/23/2007 11:53:27 AM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: StonyBurk; All

some quotes about the bill...

“Through the years, we’ve had our differences with the National Rifle Association.... Today, we write in praise the NRA.” — The San Francisco Chronicle 06/15/07

“The Virginia Tech shootings were a horrific reminder of the gaps in U.S. gun laws. The [NRA] knew its usual opposition to any and every solution we brought forward would be unacceptable to the American public so it made this concession.” — Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence e-mail alert

“For the first time [in history, HR 2640], if enacted, would statutorily impose a lifetime gun ban on battle-scarred veterans.” — Military Order of the Purple Heart 06/18/07

“The NRA has told its members in the past that Carolyn McCarthy is one of the worst of the gun banners and now the NRA has crawled in bed with her!” — Virginia Citizens Defense League

“We’re hopeful that now that the NRA has come around to our point of view in terms of strengthening the Brady background checks, that now we can take the next step after this bill passes [to impose additional gun control].” — Paul Helmke of the Brady Campaign on CNN 06/13/07

http://www.gunowners.org/ne0707.htm


18 posted on 09/23/2007 11:54:42 AM PDT by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: AuntB

BUMP


19 posted on 09/23/2007 11:56:41 AM PDT by granite ("We dare not tempt them with weakness" - JFK)
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To: AuntB

Headline:
Gunowners of American{GOA} supports supplying mental patients wit;h firearms


20 posted on 09/23/2007 11:56:56 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Hunter '08)
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To: wtc911
"Happiness is a Warm Gun" is about shooting heroin, not firearms.

You are correct. And thank you.
I should have said "adopted a chorus line of the song and subverted it
for his own anti-gun views".
21 posted on 09/23/2007 12:01:15 PM PDT by VOA
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To: tcostell

When you apply for certain jobs, you are asked if you’ve been diagnosed with anything that could impede your job duties (including mental conditions). Especially for getting a security clearance - you can’t be nuts.

ADA might give us some protection... Still, we shouldn’t expect people to have to say “that’s private, talk to my lawyer...”


22 posted on 09/23/2007 12:01:15 PM PDT by SteveMcKing
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To: AuntB

That is a dumb axe move.


23 posted on 09/23/2007 12:03:14 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys--Reagan and Bush)
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To: AuntB

My God in heaven. I’d never even heard of such a thing. This is an evil that cannot go unaddressed.


24 posted on 09/23/2007 12:04:59 PM PDT by jim35 ("...when the lion and the lamb lie down together, ...we'd better damn sure be the lion")
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To: tcostell

Please read this post.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1901053/posts?page=18#18


25 posted on 09/23/2007 12:06:40 PM PDT by B4Ranch (( "Freedom is not free, but don't worry the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share." ))
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To: Shooter 2.5

Nope. Sure don't want to disarm folks who are legally determined to pose "a tiny threat" to themselves or others.

26 posted on 09/23/2007 12:09:07 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: AuntB

PTSD is a junk diagnosis anyhow, same as ADD, etc.,..


27 posted on 09/23/2007 12:09:31 PM PDT by Mogollon
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To: VOA

I’m sure the guy was a bozo no matter what John Lennon was singing about.


28 posted on 09/23/2007 12:29:37 PM PDT by wtc911 ("How you gonna get back down that hill?")
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To: Travis McGee

Disarm America’s Veterans?
Unbelievable!
But, conceivable from the current crop of feckless imbeciles in congress and state legislatures who would see this as a step necessary to achieve the further enslavement of the population....

I simply refuse to believe there is any REAL possibility of this coming to be...

Any “government” that attempts this — will be responsible for more American deaths than most previous wars....
I for one — will resist with all the force my tired and abused old body can muster.... Our founders would have demanded no less from us..

The bastards armed me, trained me and sent me to destroy little brown folks - 10,000 miles away to “defend a nation” who later rebuked us, denied us, slandered us and insulted even our dead brothers... NOW, they can’t trust me to be armed in accordance with the 2nd Amendment?
They can all kiss my hairy ass will have to “Molon labe”!

If this shit keeps up — I’ll join the folks coming to believe that America has degenerated to the point that perhaps a catastrophic calamity is overdue to wake the bastards in this country up to the threats that lurk in the halls of Congress.

Perhaps the Islamists were meant to provide exactly that...


29 posted on 09/23/2007 1:06:20 PM PDT by river rat (Semper Fi - You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: ReignOfError

From the NRA:

Among the numerous improvements contained in H.R. 2640 are:

Certain types of mental health orders will no longer prohibit a person from possessing or receiving firearms.

Adjudications that have expired or been removed, or commitments from which a person has been completely released with no further supervision required, will no longer prohibit the legal purchase of a firearm.

Excluding federal decisions about a person’s mental health that consist only of a medical diagnosis, without a specific finding that the person is dangerous or mentally incompetent. This provision is intended to address concerns about disability decisions by the Veterans Administration concerning our brave men and women in uniform.

Requiring all participating federal or state agencies to establish “relief from disability” programs that would allow a person to get the mental health prohibition removed, either administratively or in court. This type of relief has not been available at the federal level for the past 15 years.

Ensuring—as a permanent part of federal law—that no fee or tax is associated with a NICS check, an NRA priority for nearly a decade. While NRA has supported annual appropriations amendments with the same effect, those amendments must be renewed every year. This provision would not expire.

Requiring an audit of past spending on NICS projects to find out if funds appropriated for NICS were misused for unrelated purposes.

This bill now moves to the Senate for consideration. NRA will continue to work throughout the process and vigilantly monitor this legislation to ensure that any changes to the NICS benefit lawful gun purchasers, while ensuring that those presently adjudicated by the courts as mentally incompetent are included in the system.

If anti-gun Members of Congress succeed in attaching any adverse amendments to this bill, we will withdraw support and strongly oppose it!


30 posted on 09/23/2007 1:13:21 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Hunter '08)
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To: AuntB

People with an agenda are always looking for “angles” to further their cause.

This is just another “angle” to get to their true intent, removing all guns from law abiding citizen hands.


31 posted on 09/23/2007 2:02:13 PM PDT by Red6 (Come and take it.)
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To: ReignOfError
Typical irrelevant response...

One — Your sample was no veteran.
He was a documented mental case who had slipped through the “system”.. He should never have permitted to buy a gun LEGALLY.

Two — this guy knew no one on campus would be armed to oppose him.

Three - Folks like you love to take a case where ALL the existing systems failed - and wish to expand upon those failed systems...

Your chosen “name” — ReignOfError is well chosen.

32 posted on 09/23/2007 2:02:34 PM PDT by river rat (Semper Fi - You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: StonyBurk

Vet, PTSD, and I have guns. And I will shoot anyone “grave yard dead” that comes and tries to liberate them from me.


33 posted on 09/23/2007 2:14:20 PM PDT by ImpBill ("America ... Where are you now?" --Greg Adams--Brownsville, TX --On the other Front Line)
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To: river rat
One — Your sample was no veteran.
He was a documented mental case who had slipped through the “system”

Yes. And the goal of this legislation is to make it more difficult for documented mental cases to slip through the system. Some of those, sadly but not surprisingly, are veterans. The bill does not target vets. That's the GOA's red herring.

He should never have permitted to buy a gun LEGALLY.

Nope, This bill aims to close the loophole that allowed him to.

Folks like you love to take a case where ALL the existing systems failed - and wish to expand upon those failed systems...

When the system fails, I look for a reason why and a way to fix it. I'm wacky like that.

34 posted on 09/23/2007 2:29:35 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: river rat
"If this shit keeps up — I’ll join the folks coming to believe that America has degenerated to the point that perhaps a catastrophic calamity is overdue to wake the bastards in this country up to the threats that lurk in the halls of Congress."

Welcome aboard brother! Keep your powder dry - the day is coming! And there are many of us that believe what you said that really aren't kooks or aligned with any militia type groups.

35 posted on 09/23/2007 2:32:52 PM PDT by ImpBill ("America ... Where are you now?" --Greg Adams--Brownsville, TX --On the other Front Line)
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To: AuntB

bump and forwarded along....


36 posted on 09/23/2007 2:33:09 PM PDT by Freedom2specul8 (Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~; ImpBill

Here’s a poll of interest at a local TV station. A teacher, with a concealed carry permit has gone to court to carry her gun at school because she is threatened by an x husb.

Should Teachers Be Allowed to Carry Concealed Firearms at School?
Yes 22%
No 46%
Yes, but only after special training 32%
Total Votes: 247

http://www.ktvl.com/


37 posted on 09/23/2007 2:40:07 PM PDT by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: AuntB

Well, it looks like the yea’s are winning over the nays...am glad to see that. Sickening that schools are no longer the safe havens of past days... (although maybe there were husbands threatening and hurting their wives at schools..and it just wasn’t publicized. ????


38 posted on 09/23/2007 4:15:20 PM PDT by Freedom2specul8 (Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
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To: AuntB

Good grief, these jerks just nevrer stop.


39 posted on 09/23/2007 4:45:11 PM PDT by Brandie (Duncan Hunter in 08')
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To: river rat

Yep, tell hundreds of thousands of vets they’ve lost their RKBA, and all bets are off. That would be a big bite to take.


40 posted on 09/23/2007 5:48:12 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com--)
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To: Travis McGee; AuntB; ImpBill
Disarming the former warriors is always a sign of coming fascism/suppression. I don't know anyone I could claim to be totally sane all the time...and the worst ones are those in positions of power.

Won't get fooled again - no no. Hope you folks are stocking up and preparing for what none of us wishes to see.

41 posted on 09/23/2007 6:31:32 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: NewRomeTacitus

That would be a serious mistake on the part of the grabboids.


42 posted on 09/23/2007 7:27:03 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com--)
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To: AuntB
Not much. It has passed the house by voice vote, so no record of the traitors.

They do some of their worst work that way. That's the way we got the Brady Bill/instant check in the first place, at least in the Senate.

43 posted on 09/23/2007 7:42:02 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: ReignOfError
Sure don't want to disarm folks who are legally determined to pose "a tiny threat" to themselves or others.

So much better to disarm all the law abiding people, so when one one of these nutjobs, or criminals, do get a gun (they don't obey really important laws, like those against robbery, rape and murder), they have a safe "work environment" aka "unarmed victims zone". That worked real well at Va. Tech.

44 posted on 09/23/2007 7:46:58 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: AuntB
I rented a room to a vet that should never be near a gun. He told me that when gets depressed he can do stupid things. He disappeared one day, the police found his car parked on the side of the freeway in SE Fort Worth. Later he called from the VA hospital in Dallas. He told us he was feeling down and forgot how to switch to his auxiliary gas tank so when in ran out of gas he got out and walked.

Current laws keep him from getting a gun, why do we need a new one just for vets?

Unlike the other renter who did have any diagnosed problems this was the only month he was late on his rent. A good man.

45 posted on 09/23/2007 8:04:55 PM PDT by ThomasThomas
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To: AuntB

This is just part of the plan to make only those who refuse to own guns eligible to own guns.


46 posted on 09/23/2007 8:07:53 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: El Gato
So much better to disarm all the law abiding people

Not what this bill does. What it does is try to prevent criminals and nutjobs can't stroll in and buy guns. It is not intended to disarm the law-abiding and sane. If you have specific objections, feel free to bring them -- but I find the NRA's assessment of the bill more convincing than the GOA's.

That worked real well at Va. Tech.

If there had been more guns on campus, someone would have stopped Cho Seung-Hui when he'd shot fewer people. If the background check had pinged, he wouldn't have been able to shoot any. Yes, of course there are black-market guns, but could you get one on short notice? I couldn't. I wouldn't even know where to begin to ask without risking being turned in.

(Actually, I have a couple of guns that are likely untraceable -- .32 revolvers than belonged to my great-grandfather, and probably weren't ever registered anywhere. One is in a shadow-box frame on the wall, and the other I found after my mom died. It had four rounds corroded in place, where they'd apparently been for the 55 years since he died. I gingerly took it to a gunsmith and had the rounds removed. He said the gun was fireable when he was done, but I feel no need to test the hypothesis. But yeah, I have a drop-piece, should it come to that.)

There are folks who should have guns and folks who shouldn't. I have no problem with approaching the problem from both directions, no problem with background checks. i support efforts to make them more accurate, more tightly limited to the actually unfit, and as I wrote above, I find the NRA's apprisal of this bill -- and my own reading of it -- more convincing than the GOA's take.

47 posted on 09/23/2007 8:20:53 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: ThomasThomas
Current laws keep him from getting a gun, why do we need a new one just for vets?

There is no new law just for vets. That is the GOA's distortion. The new law seeks to block the mentally unfit from buying guns, and some of those folks will be vets. Probably a disproportionate number, because they -- like cops, firefighters, ER docs, prison guards, and other folks who do the tough jobs -- receive more emotional trauma than the rest of us.

48 posted on 09/23/2007 8:26:20 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: ThomasThomas

Good lord, I actually restrained a guy who, in his flashback, thought he was killing a North Vietnamese general while actually loading and stalking General Westmoreland. I had to choose between turning this lifer over for ruination or saying I was “goofing around”.

They weren’t there while I bulldogged the man and damn near killed him after he declared the general was “a gook target worth any amount of lives to take out”. This shell-shocked master sergeant loaded a live magazine into his M-16 during a practice exercise. As Westmoreland came down the little mountain to inspect the fortifications this sergeant rushed to a targeting platform of piled slabs while instructing me to get around “Charlie” through a gully on the opposite side. I scrabbled after the sergeant saying that he was stalking an American General, but he continued trying to get a bead on the man.

While there’s a lot of citizens out there who feel that Westmoreland was directly responsible for their children’s deaths I can not apologize for protecting him in that instance. The general went on to have a natural death and “Sergent Flashback” was minded over to eventually draw an honorable retirement and the better pay that brings (the man was a Vietnam hero).

But, Thomas Thomas, I’d trust that man as my neighbor to this day over the likes of those who immediately look to the government for the right thing to do. He got needed help while the majority of our fellow citizens voluntarily give in to a fantasy that our nation is somehow advanced through overall disarmament.


49 posted on 09/23/2007 9:17:25 PM PDT by NewRomeTacitus
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To: river rat

If guns are outlawed it’s just going to make the battlefield a lot sloppier.


50 posted on 09/24/2007 3:16:41 AM PDT by Eastbound
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