Nope. Sure don't want to disarm folks who are legally determined to pose "a tiny threat" to themselves or others.
Posted on 09/23/2007 11:18:35 AM PDT by AuntB
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.
How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.
This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away... forever. It is section 102(b)(1)(C)(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.
No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation.
The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY). Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.
Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.
But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you're talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans' names that are taking place under federal level. Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).
So how will this bill make things even worse? Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on veterans' gun rights.
One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.
The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser. Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).
Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed. It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred -- for life -- from owning guns.
Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.
Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong. If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."
When you apply for certain jobs, you are asked if you’ve been diagnosed with anything that could impede your job duties (including mental conditions). Especially for getting a security clearance - you can’t be nuts.
ADA might give us some protection... Still, we shouldn’t expect people to have to say “that’s private, talk to my lawyer...”
That is a dumb axe move.
My God in heaven. I’d never even heard of such a thing. This is an evil that cannot go unaddressed.
Nope. Sure don't want to disarm folks who are legally determined to pose "a tiny threat" to themselves or others.
PTSD is a junk diagnosis anyhow, same as ADD, etc.,..
I’m sure the guy was a bozo no matter what John Lennon was singing about.
Disarm America’s Veterans?
Unbelievable!
But, conceivable from the current crop of feckless imbeciles in congress and state legislatures who would see this as a step necessary to achieve the further enslavement of the population....
I simply refuse to believe there is any REAL possibility of this coming to be...
Any “government” that attempts this — will be responsible for more American deaths than most previous wars....
I for one — will resist with all the force my tired and abused old body can muster.... Our founders would have demanded no less from us..
The bastards armed me, trained me and sent me to destroy little brown folks - 10,000 miles away to “defend a nation” who later rebuked us, denied us, slandered us and insulted even our dead brothers... NOW, they can’t trust me to be armed in accordance with the 2nd Amendment?
They can all kiss my hairy ass will have to “Molon labe”!
If this shit keeps up — I’ll join the folks coming to believe that America has degenerated to the point that perhaps a catastrophic calamity is overdue to wake the bastards in this country up to the threats that lurk in the halls of Congress.
Perhaps the Islamists were meant to provide exactly that...
From the NRA:
Among the numerous improvements contained in H.R. 2640 are:
Certain types of mental health orders will no longer prohibit a person from possessing or receiving firearms.
Adjudications that have expired or been removed, or commitments from which a person has been completely released with no further supervision required, will no longer prohibit the legal purchase of a firearm.
Excluding federal decisions about a person’s mental health that consist only of a medical diagnosis, without a specific finding that the person is dangerous or mentally incompetent. This provision is intended to address concerns about disability decisions by the Veterans Administration concerning our brave men and women in uniform.
Requiring all participating federal or state agencies to establish “relief from disability” programs that would allow a person to get the mental health prohibition removed, either administratively or in court. This type of relief has not been available at the federal level for the past 15 years.
Ensuring—as a permanent part of federal law—that no fee or tax is associated with a NICS check, an NRA priority for nearly a decade. While NRA has supported annual appropriations amendments with the same effect, those amendments must be renewed every year. This provision would not expire.
Requiring an audit of past spending on NICS projects to find out if funds appropriated for NICS were misused for unrelated purposes.
This bill now moves to the Senate for consideration. NRA will continue to work throughout the process and vigilantly monitor this legislation to ensure that any changes to the NICS benefit lawful gun purchasers, while ensuring that those presently adjudicated by the courts as mentally incompetent are included in the system.
If anti-gun Members of Congress succeed in attaching any adverse amendments to this bill, we will withdraw support and strongly oppose it!
People with an agenda are always looking for “angles” to further their cause.
This is just another “angle” to get to their true intent, removing all guns from law abiding citizen hands.
One — Your sample was no veteran.
He was a documented mental case who had slipped through the “system”.. He should never have permitted to buy a gun LEGALLY.
Two — this guy knew no one on campus would be armed to oppose him.
Three - Folks like you love to take a case where ALL the existing systems failed - and wish to expand upon those failed systems...
Your chosen “name” — ReignOfError is well chosen.
Vet, PTSD, and I have guns. And I will shoot anyone “grave yard dead” that comes and tries to liberate them from me.
Yes. And the goal of this legislation is to make it more difficult for documented mental cases to slip through the system. Some of those, sadly but not surprisingly, are veterans. The bill does not target vets. That's the GOA's red herring.
He should never have permitted to buy a gun LEGALLY.
Nope, This bill aims to close the loophole that allowed him to.
Folks like you love to take a case where ALL the existing systems failed - and wish to expand upon those failed systems...
When the system fails, I look for a reason why and a way to fix it. I'm wacky like that.
Welcome aboard brother! Keep your powder dry - the day is coming! And there are many of us that believe what you said that really aren't kooks or aligned with any militia type groups.
bump and forwarded along....
Here’s a poll of interest at a local TV station. A teacher, with a concealed carry permit has gone to court to carry her gun at school because she is threatened by an x husb.
Should Teachers Be Allowed to Carry Concealed Firearms at School?
Yes 22%
No 46%
Yes, but only after special training 32%
Total Votes: 247
Well, it looks like the yea’s are winning over the nays...am glad to see that. Sickening that schools are no longer the safe havens of past days... (although maybe there were husbands threatening and hurting their wives at schools..and it just wasn’t publicized. ????
Good grief, these jerks just nevrer stop.
Yep, tell hundreds of thousands of vets they’ve lost their RKBA, and all bets are off. That would be a big bite to take.
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