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U.S. Snipers Accused of 'Baiting' Iraqis
Yahoo News / AP ^ | 09/24/2007 | EagleUSA

Posted on 09/24/2007 7:52:42 PM PDT by EagleUSA

WASHINGTON - Army snipers hunting insurgents in Iraq were under orders to "bait" their targets with suspicious materials, such as detonation cords, and then kill whoever picked up the items, according to the defense attorney for a soldier accused of planting evidence on an Iraqi he killed. Gary Myers, an attorney for Sgt. Evan Vela, said Monday his client had acted "pursuant to orders."

"We believe that our client has done nothing more than he was instructed to do by superiors," Myers said in a telephone interview.

Myers and Vela's father, Curtis Carnahan of Idaho Falls, Idaho, said in separate interviews that sworn statements and testimony in the cases of two other accused Ranger snipers indicate that the Army has a classified program that encourages snipers to "bait" potential targets and then kill whoever takes the bait.

The Army on Monday declined to confirm such a program exists.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: fight; snipers; war; win
Well, finally. Some good tactics leak out. And the leftist media is all over how a war is fought. I wonder how these MSM cowards view the setting of IEDs that blow our boys into pieces??? A little trickery perhaps -- but the left has two standards.
1 posted on 09/24/2007 7:52:44 PM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: EagleUSA
Let's correct the headline for the MSM.

U.S. Snipers Accused of 'Baiting' Iraqis Terrorists

2 posted on 09/24/2007 7:54:54 PM PDT by mnehring (!! Warning, Quoting Ron Paul Supporters can be Hazardous to your Reputation !!)
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To: EagleUSA

Murtha ping


3 posted on 09/24/2007 7:55:38 PM PDT by RedCell (Honor thy Father (9/6/07) - Semper Fi)
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To: EagleUSA

So what?


4 posted on 09/24/2007 7:56:14 PM PDT by rusureitflies? (OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD! There, I said it. Prove me wrong.)
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To: EagleUSA

As I read this, this is these sniper’s defense. They were ordered to use “bait”. I say give them a medal!


5 posted on 09/24/2007 7:56:37 PM PDT by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG-49) Freedom's Fortress)
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To: EagleUSA

They ought to issue a marksmanship bar for that. Think about it...Master Rifleman, Master Pistolman, Master Baiter...


6 posted on 09/24/2007 7:57:42 PM PDT by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich!)
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To: RedCell

Ha!!!

If fat Jack catches wind of this.........


7 posted on 09/24/2007 7:57:45 PM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (Tracking The Flyin' Imams Since 11/20/06)
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To: EagleUSA

This is a duplicate thread.


8 posted on 09/24/2007 7:58:15 PM PDT by BuffaloJack (Before the government can give you a dollar it must first take it from another American)
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To: EagleUSA

I hope there’s more to this than just what’s described. Iraq is a dirt-poor country with high unemployment. Any random schmuck trying to feed his family might be tempted to carry off something that looks expensive and salable, ordnance or not. And I’m not sure I’d recognize det cord if I came across it and neither might some Iraqi passerby. In pictures, the stuff looks a lot like stiff rope to me. Before killing somebody just for picking it up, I’d want to be quite sure that he had bad intentions for it.


9 posted on 09/24/2007 7:59:18 PM PDT by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
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To: EagleUSA

Who cares what these leftists think? All they know are Starbucks, putting subway tokens in slots, and walking on green. If you told them you wanted to take them camping or hunting they’d turn white.


10 posted on 09/24/2007 7:59:41 PM PDT by Windcatcher
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To: RichInOC

LOL! Amen to that!


11 posted on 09/24/2007 8:03:30 PM PDT by Perdogg (Join the NCAA basketball thread - Freemail me)
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To: John Jorsett
The thought is that in Iraq, the general knowledge of this stuff is much higher than it is here...and, the "bait" is not just lying around where anyone can find it. It is intentiaonally placed in areas where terrorists and our enemies plan and carry out their attacks against our people, and then that bait is watched closely.

I do not believe that the sniper shoots just "anyone" who walks up on it. In most cases, particularly in surveillance and recon, our guys are wired and seeking and obtaining permission from their superiors based on what they see...and in many cases what their superiors also see.

12 posted on 09/24/2007 8:06:59 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: John Jorsett

My thoughts, too.


13 posted on 09/24/2007 8:07:04 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: EagleUSA

US snipers ‘bait’ Iraqis: report
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1901560/posts

US snipers ‘bait’ Iraqis: report (”National Institute of Military Justice” Deeply Saddened)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1901322/posts

U.S. Aims To Lure Insurgents With ‘Bait’
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1901274/posts


14 posted on 09/24/2007 8:08:12 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: John Jorsett

If he is picking it up before reporting it ... sorry ... he has bad intentions.


15 posted on 09/24/2007 8:13:50 PM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: RichInOC

LOL!


16 posted on 09/24/2007 8:19:22 PM PDT by Brucifer (G. W. Bush "The dog ate my copy of the Constitution.")
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To: EagleUSA
Well, finally. Some good tactics leak out. And the leftist media is all over how a war is fought. I wonder how these MSM cowards view the setting of IEDs that blow our boys into pieces??? A little trickery perhaps -- but the left has two standards.

Isn't this the same media that baited sexual perverts in televised stings?

17 posted on 09/24/2007 8:21:08 PM PDT by umgud
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To: John Jorsett

Do you really suppose highly trained, methodical snipers are really going to waste time and ammunition and expose themselves to risk firing on some random passers by? Just like any hunter, they would be aiming for the highest value targets possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipers

Snipers are volunteers accepted for sniper training on the basis of their aptitude as perceived by their commanders. ... Effective sniping in a military context may necessitate assuming a stationary position for days at a time. Fatigue and muscle stiffness often result from the mandatory immobility. Also, urination and defecation into a bag or other container may become essential. These factors alone contradict much of the glamour portrayed in popular movies.


18 posted on 09/24/2007 8:22:58 PM PDT by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: EagleUSA

I completely agree with the chocolate cake and ice cream as bait.

Next question.


19 posted on 09/24/2007 8:28:04 PM PDT by edcoil (Reality doesn't say much - doesn't need too)
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To: EagleUSA
U.S. Snipers Accused of 'Baiting' Iraqis

And? So? But? Therefore? What's the problem?

20 posted on 09/24/2007 8:30:40 PM PDT by hsalaw
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To: EagleUSA

Those poor innocent terrorists! How dare they bait them and not try talking to them and asking them if they are a good guy or bad guy!


21 posted on 09/24/2007 8:31:00 PM PDT by ropin71 (God Bless our Troops!)
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To: EagleUSA
....so their point is?

It appears that they are able to find out exactly who is placing IEDs along side the roadway to kill GIs.

What an ingenious idea!!!! Give that man(woman) a medal!!!!

22 posted on 09/24/2007 8:45:45 PM PDT by zerosix (<Native Sunflower>)
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To: PAR35; BuffaloJack
1st time I 've seen thsi thread. Glad it was posted.

As to the topic...Its called 'killing the enemy'...If it works...DO IT!

23 posted on 09/24/2007 8:58:31 PM PDT by Tainan (Talk is cheap. Silence is golden. All I got is brass...lotsa brass.)
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To: EagleUSA

Yup, you should use bait to poison rats.


24 posted on 09/24/2007 9:00:30 PM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: John Jorsett

Exactly. There are better methods that have proven successful in the past and leave less room for doubt.

Iraqi IED placers are dumb and lazy, and if a sniper watches the hole where an IED went off earlier in the day, more likely than not at night haji will come back to that spot to plant another IED. The intent of somebody digging a hole in the middle of the night next to the road is more obvious than somebody picking up what might appear to them to be a valuable piece of trash.


25 posted on 09/24/2007 9:14:42 PM PDT by SoldierMedic (Rowan Walter, 23 Feb 2007 Ramadi)
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To: EagleUSA

I guess these jackasses haven’t made any suggestions of how THEY would capture or kill these murdering bass turds. How we fight is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS. Put the morons in jail and lets get on with this war. We’ve got a war to win.


26 posted on 09/24/2007 9:21:47 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (The foreign born Soros cannot run for president so he has decided to just buy the government.)
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To: EagleUSA
It’s the old “salt lick” trick. These are Terrorists people!!!!!! Why in the hell would you think that the libs would allow us to kill them let alone cheat by using the equivalent to a “salt lick”? CHEATERS!!!!!
27 posted on 09/24/2007 10:48:17 PM PDT by Anti-Christ is Hillary (If Moreen Dowd can call herself a journalist then so can I.)
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To: EagleUSA

I thought the object WAS to kill the bad guy...who cares if we’re using snipers, tanks, helicopters, F16s...isn’t that what we do when we’re at war? Just checking...


28 posted on 09/25/2007 4:38:45 AM PDT by ripnbang ("the difference between a welfare state and totalitarianism is a matter of time")
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To: Jeff Head; bigheadfred; RedRover; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; jazusamo; Girlene; EagleUSA; brityank; ...
I do not believe that the sniper shoots just "anyone" who walks up on it.

Jeff, it is important that this thread know that freeper, bigheadfred, is the uncle of one of the accused soldiers in this incident in this story. It's also important to know that red rover, fred, and others on Free Republic have been working this case for a couple of months now when it leaked out in a story in Asheville, North Carolina. Free Republic help is the reason our snipers are NOW adequately represented in court.

First, we have 3 of our young troops accused of murder, and in my opinion, they are absolutely innocent until absolutely proven guilty.

Second, the deck is stacked against them if they don't get adequate representation. Their assigned military lawyer was prepared to send them down the river with a plea, PROBABLY because he was a newbie captain JAG who doesn't know the difference between his kevlar and his "grab it with 2 hands" yet.

Third, when adequate civilian attorneys WITH extensive military backgrounds were found to handle this case, they determined that the young JAG had even WAIVED these men's right to a preliminary hearing. (Something that is absolutely stupid for anyone to do.)

Now, the question has to do with which battlefield techniques these young soldiers were exposed to in Iraq. If they were given the impression that "baiting" was a way to get a guy that you "know that you know that you know" is an insurgent, then WHOSE lives are they saving by taking this bad guy out? And if the method is unorthodox, what difference does that really make, IF the same technique is being used elsewhere in the military?!!

I first saw this story when I was wandering into a grocery store during my vacation in the Smokies this summer. It showed a picture of a weeping mom whose son, SGT Hensley, one of the accused, is the child of this missionary to BOSNIA/Kosovo & her husband. Missionaries to Bosnia DO NOT hate Muslims. They MINISTER TO THEM. Additionally, every single person contacted from these kids' past has given glowing reports of their character, patriotism, and dedication.

Why shouldn't they get the benefit of the doubt....just like every other American?

Why shouldn't we believe that this case is another in a long line of troops who are being NIFONGED by a politically correct system that sometimes gets off track in its haste to appease islamics, media, naysayers, and purists?

Why shouldn't we give MORE credence to their side of the story than anyone else's? After all, they were the one's on the line that day.

Finally, why is it ok for the bomb and missiles services to say, when they blow up a building and DON'T get the bad guy they were seeking, "Oooops, missed that one. Sorry about all those bodies." BUT it isn't ok for ground troops to say, "Oooops, missed that one. Sorry about the dead guy or two?"

And, wouldn't it be better for them to say, "Oooops, SUCCEEDED at taking out a bad guy in an unorthodox manner?"

Why would we prosecute them for that?

29 posted on 09/25/2007 5:00:04 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins; joanie-f
Sadly, tragically, we have allowed a PC crowd, a PC think to even enter into our military. This desire by some of the JAGs, officers, and others, most of which are rear-echelon, to somehow reach into combat situations and mold those situations (usually from afar) into this PC mold are disgraceful;, apthetic, and revolting to me.

They tie the hands of our young men and women who have volunteered to do the hard work of freedom, to defend our liberty and way of life...our very lives...from anilmals who want nothing more to slaughter us. They do so (our soldiers) at extrteme risk to their own lives and in extreme conditions that most Americans can scaresly fathom.

When we routinely go after them for doing so, for taking the fight to the enemy in a hellish war situation, we severely dampen their spirits, hurt their moral, and put them all (and by extension, us all), into grave danger.

From all I have read, I pray to God that these innocent troopers will be exonerated...and that those who so callously go after them (in many cases for their own perceived professional gain), will themselves be disgraced and put in their place, as they should, and as a example to others. IMHO, this needs to happen in a number of cases, of which this one is not the least.

30 posted on 09/25/2007 5:45:54 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: EagleUSA
Sounds like An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge.
31 posted on 09/25/2007 5:50:41 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (NYT Headline: Protocols of the Learned Elders of CBS: Fake but Accurate, Experts Say)
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To: John Jorsett
Agreed. As described it sounds pretty nasty: leave some curious-looking stuff lying around, don't be surprised if any ol' schmuck picks it up.
32 posted on 09/25/2007 5:56:14 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: EagleUSA

The report states that a captain is in charge of a platoon. Is that correct? Typically, a 2nd or 1st lieutenant is in charge, and many times an NCO is.


33 posted on 09/25/2007 6:01:00 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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To: EagleUSA

The MSM believes that all of the troops should experience IEDs as the troops, being American, are baby killers who only kill noncombatants. And America sent them their so they are purely evil and deserve whatever the freedom fighters can give them. That is the general leftist take on the war and on America and MSM, being part of the Left project supports that sort of thing.


34 posted on 09/25/2007 6:07:42 AM PDT by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: EagleUSA

“Anybody who runs is a VC. Anybody who stands still is a well disiplined VC.”


35 posted on 09/25/2007 6:30:06 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: Jeff Head
This desire by some of the JAGs, officers, and others, most of which are rear-echelon,

I believe the correct term is REMF.

36 posted on 09/25/2007 6:35:54 AM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
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To: ripnbang

I thought the object WAS to kill the bad guy...who cares if we’re using snipers, tanks, helicopters, F16s...isn’t that what we do when we’re at war? Just checking...
::::::
Yes, it is a war, albiet undeclared. But it is all the left has as far an “issue” goes. They have nothing else FOR AMERICA other than radical socialism, confiscatory taxation and an all-out effort to undermine the Constitution to turn this country into another single-party, freedomless socialist state. Just put Hitlery and little Chuckie “proud-to-be-a-Socialist” Schumer together and listen to these Stalinist power mongers, as just one of MANY examples.


37 posted on 09/25/2007 6:55:00 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: xzins

Thank you oh so very much for all of those insights!


38 posted on 09/25/2007 7:12:24 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Scotsman will be Free

The platoon leader is a lieutenant. That lieutenant, however, works for a company commander, a captain, who himself works for a battalion commander, a lieutenant colonel.

It is very common for an experienced company commander to directly address one of his lieutentant’s platoons. As the company commander, it is “his” platoon.


39 posted on 09/25/2007 7:28:53 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: Jeff Head; xzins
Well said, both Jeff and xzins. There is for sure a concerted, and growing effort, not only to abandon the war effort by betraying our troops, but, as if that weren't enough, those leftists in politics, the media, and academia are determined to paint them with a black brush at every available opportunity.

And if even the hint of 'opportunity' doesn't present itself, they have no qualms about creating a scandal out of whole cloth.

The only aspect of the left's agenda that sickens me more than their insatiatble lust for elitist power is their unabashed willingness to defile, through agenda-driven lies, the most courageous and duty-bound among us, thereby emboldening our enemies and chipping away at the morale of our defenders.

If that isn't treason, then treason needs to be redefined so as to include such black and evil hearts.

~ joanie
Allegiance and Duty Betrayed

40 posted on 09/25/2007 8:45:06 AM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe that God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: EagleUSA

Like fishing for carp.


41 posted on 09/25/2007 1:20:16 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore (If it ain't Rugby or Bullriding, it's for girls.........................................)
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To: xzins

Thanks. I’m aware of the rank structure, and TO&E.(see tag line) I was confused by the mention of a captain being the leader of the platoon, because in my experience that never happened nor did I ever hear of it happening.


42 posted on 09/25/2007 1:29:59 PM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
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