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US set to violate its standards on CO2 emissions
NewScientist ^ | 9/24/07 | Catherine Brahic

Posted on 09/25/2007 1:36:29 PM PDT by ricks_place

The US may violate its own standards on water quality by refusing to limit emissions of carbon dioxide, suggests a new study modelling ocean acidification.

"About one-third of the CO2 from fossil-fuel burning is absorbed by the world’s oceans," explains Ken Caldeira at Stanford University in California, US, who led the study.

The CO2 lowers the pH of the ocean’s surface, a phenomenon known as ocean acidification. This is predicted to have dramatic consequences on marine life by dissolving the shells of tiny organisms and corals.

If governments do nothing to limit greenhouse-gas emissions, CO2 levels in the oceans will rise to a point where, by 2050, ocean acidification will reach a level considered to be industrial waste by the US’s own standards, found the study to be published on 25 September.

Industrial waste ""We need to start thinking about carbon dioxide as an ocean pollutant," urges Caldeira. "When we release carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, we are dumping industrial waste in the ocean.".

The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) water quality criteria, states that the pH of ocean waters beyond 200 metres deep should not be changed more than 0.2 units outside natural levels. Estimates put natural levels at a range from 8 to 8.25 pH. Anything beyond this is considered industrial waste. However, these standards are not enshrined in US law.

Caldeira’s team calculated how CO2 emissions from fossil-fuel burning impact on ocean acidification.

‘Dangerous interference’ "If atmospheric CO2 goes above 500 parts per million, the surface of the entire ocean will be out of compliance with EPA pH guidelines," says Caldeira. Currently, concentrations are at 380 ppm. However, computer models suggest that if governments do nothing to limit greenhouse-gas emissions, concentrations could climb to at least 760 ppm by 2100 and could reach 500ppm by 2050.

(Excerpt) Read more at environment.newscientist.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agw; climatechange; coastalenvironment; environment; globalwarming
Plug every Hydrothermal Vents!

They violate the law!
1 posted on 09/25/2007 1:36:35 PM PDT by ricks_place
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To: ricks_place

I’m still reeling over the fact that every time I exhale, I’m polluting.


2 posted on 09/25/2007 1:37:52 PM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: ricks_place
Does that mean we have to quit breathing?


3 posted on 09/25/2007 1:38:59 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: ricks_place
They violate the law!

So do volcanoes. Just a minute, I think that thing might just be an underground volcano. We must immediate cap it. Perhaps the pent up energy will cause an explosion on the other side of the world (maybe in Iran) if we work it just right.

Kill two birds with one stone. Make the global warmest feel warm and fuzzy and destroy the great satin.

4 posted on 09/25/2007 1:41:31 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: ricks_place
Plug every Hydrothermal Vents!

Kill the hydrothermals, down with underwater volcanoes!!!!

5 posted on 09/25/2007 1:42:31 PM PDT by BOBTHENAILER (One by one, in small groups or in whole armies, we don't care how we do it, but we're gonna getcha)
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To: Slapshot68
I’m still reeling over the fact that every time I exhale, I’m polluting.

There are things that you can do that pollute even worse.

6 posted on 09/25/2007 1:42:43 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: ricks_place

7 posted on 09/25/2007 1:43:08 PM PDT by traditional1 ( Fred Thompson-The ONLY electable Republican Candidate)
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To: darkwing104

Well whoop tee doo. It must not be a violation of the law when an illegal alien crosses our border? Wait....that’s why they call them ILLEGAL aliens. They break the law and nothing happens but if we exceed some CO2 limit above that of a bee fart, then we are the worse country in the world. The humanity.


8 posted on 09/25/2007 1:43:40 PM PDT by shankbear (Al-Qaeda grew while Monica blew)
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To: ricks_place
by dissolving the shells of tiny organisms and corals.

Yjat sounds like BS to me. Those organisms rely on CO2 (and calcium) in the water to form the calcium carbonate which their shells are made of.

9 posted on 09/25/2007 1:44:21 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: w1andsodidwe

“There are things that you can do that pollute even worse.”

I think you missed my point. I don’t consider breathing to be polluting, even if the SCOTUS thinks it does in terms of EPA policy.


10 posted on 09/25/2007 1:47:04 PM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: ricks_place
"If atmospheric CO2 goes above 500 parts per million, the surface of the entire ocean will be out of compliance with EPA pH guidelines,"

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Poseidon says, "The EPA bureaucraps made their ruling, now let 'em enforce it!"

11 posted on 09/25/2007 1:50:21 PM PDT by rfp1234 (Nothing is better than eternal happiness. A ham sandwich is better than nothing. Therefore...)
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To: ricks_place
US set to violate its standards on CO2 emissions

Well, we're doing our part to get us there. If the left would only chip in... As if they weren't.

12 posted on 09/25/2007 1:52:14 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Hillary has pay fever. There she goes now... "Ha Hsu, ha hsu, haaaa hsu, ha hsu...")
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To: Slapshot68
Maybe he was refering to what comes out of the other end... Ok, maybe it is just me.....
13 posted on 09/25/2007 1:55:50 PM PDT by Uriah_lost ("I don't apologize for the United States of America," -Fred D Thompson)
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To: Slapshot68

I prefer to think of it as providing a necessary ingredient for plant life.


14 posted on 09/25/2007 1:57:16 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: w1andsodidwe

Make the global warmest feel warm and fuzzy and destroy the great satin.

Is he related to the Great Santini?


15 posted on 09/25/2007 1:59:13 PM PDT by saganite
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To: saganite

Yes, I did screw up the spelling, but the spell checker didn’t notice it.


16 posted on 09/25/2007 2:01:30 PM PDT by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: ricks_place
Oh, how I love it when Leftists bitchslap each other...

CANADA SUED FOR BREACHING KYOTO

"Friends of the Earth Canada has launched a landmark lawsuit against the Government of Canada for abandoning its international commitments under the Kyoto Protocol.

Canada is second only to Austria, worldwide, in the staggering size of its failure to meet its Kyoto target, with its greenhouse gas emissions more than 34% above its 6% reduction target."


17 posted on 09/25/2007 2:03:18 PM PDT by StAnDeliver (=)
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To: ricks_place
Basic References:

Lawrence Solomon's "The Deniers" (a series of articles on the view of scientists who have been labelled "Global Warming Deniers"):

Other References:

Antarctic Temperature Trend 1982-2004:


This map (left) shows key areas of Antarctica, including the vast East Antarctic ice sheet. The image on the right shows which areas of the continent's ice are thickening (coloured yellow and red) and thinning (coloured blue). © (Left)British Antarctic Survey, (Right)Science

18 posted on 09/25/2007 2:05:37 PM PDT by sourcery (Referring a "social conservative" to the Ninth Amendment is like showing the Cross to Dracula.)
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To: darkwing104

“Does that mean we have to quit breathing?”

Only if you’re a conservative. Leftists can breathe all they want under the regulations they wrote.


19 posted on 09/25/2007 2:05:53 PM PDT by vetsvette (Bring Him Back)
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To: Slapshot68

OK all you smart people...who owns the air that we breathe here in the good ol’ USA?


20 posted on 09/25/2007 2:07:16 PM PDT by A_Tradition_Continues (THE NEXT GENERATION CONSERVATIVE)
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To: ricks_place
"Art imitates life."

"Fart irritates environmentalists."

21 posted on 09/25/2007 2:07:25 PM PDT by sourcery (Referring a "social conservative" to the Ninth Amendment is like showing the Cross to Dracula.)
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To: w1andsodidwe

Yeah, I’ve never done thet! ;^)


22 posted on 09/25/2007 2:08:04 PM PDT by saganite
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To: ricks_place; xcamel
We need to start thinking about carbon dioxide as an ocean pollutant," urges Caldeira. "When we release carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, we are dumping industrial waste in the ocean.".

Oh, good grief, give us a break already.

[Global warming PING to xcamel.]

23 posted on 09/25/2007 2:14:56 PM PDT by CedarDave (The only access Hillary-care will bring is access to a waiting list.)
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To: ricks_place; OKSooner; honolulugal; Killing Time; Beowulf; Mr. Peabody; RW_Whacko; gruffwolf; ...

FReepmail me to get on or off


Click on POGW graphic for full GW rundown

New!!: Dr. John Ray's
GREENIE WATCH

Ping me if you find one I've missed.



24 posted on 09/25/2007 2:20:21 PM PDT by xcamel (FDT/2008)
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To: rfp1234
The solution of CO2 in ocean water does NOT make the surface water acidic because water is so highly buffered that it doesn't change pH of the ocean, (make it acid)! Any water chemistry text book will explain this chemical equilibrium. This just more of the same BS that passes for science that we see every day.
25 posted on 09/25/2007 2:25:16 PM PDT by quintr
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To: w1andsodidwe

I am the worst offender.


26 posted on 09/25/2007 2:49:24 PM PDT by Rb ver. 2.0 (Reunite Gondwanaland!)
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To: Slapshot68

“I think you missed my point. I don’t consider breathing to be polluting, even if the SCOTUS thinks it does in terms of EPA policy.”

I think he was referring to a gastric exhale.


27 posted on 09/25/2007 2:50:45 PM PDT by Rb ver. 2.0 (Reunite Gondwanaland!)
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To: ricks_place

What about all those plankton in the ocean that need CO2 to survive? Will they breed out of control with the excess CO2? Will they over-populated the world’s oceans? (Semi-sarcastic.)

Aren’t plankton responsible for more CO2 - O2 conversion than plants?


28 posted on 09/25/2007 2:53:22 PM PDT by CPOSharky (An organization that kills those who do not believe it's dogma is NOT a religion.)
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To: ricks_place

“Estimates put natural levels at a range from 8 to 8.25 pH.”

“The CO2 lowers the pH of the ocean’s surface, a phenomenon known as ocean acidification.”

A substance with a pH of 7 is neutral, such as pure water. Below 7 is acidic, while above 7 is alkaline.

Considering that sea water is slightly alkaline and that supposedly the CO2 will lower the pH, this could be an alternate headline: “US CO2 Emissions Purifying Oceans.”


29 posted on 09/25/2007 3:40:12 PM PDT by OA5599
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To: OA5599; xcamel; cogitator; AFPhys; sionnsar
Sionnsar, please ping your science list and ask somebody do a “rational check” on this:

(I’ve run my numbers, but want to independently check them!)

Just HOW MANY tons of CO2 are required to raise GLOBAL CO2 from 380 ppm to 500 ppm?

How many tons of carbon are we actually burning (in the US, and internationally)?

How many tons of water are in the “surface” of the ocean (worldwide - as he is using the term. Should we assume “only” 100 feet of depth? After all, fish swim neutrally with gills much deeper than that.)

OK - Now, many tons of CO2 are required to LOWER pH from 8.25 to 8.0 pH - given the above 100 foot limit of CO2 dissolving in the ocean?

OK, given that CO2 dissolving in the ocean does lower pH (acidify it), how many tons of CO2 are needed to create “industrial waste” levels of acidity?

By the way, just what IS an “industrial waste” level of acid - if the natural seawater is ALREADY a basic solution?

Just what pH is required to ACTUALLY DISSOLVE the shells? A completely neutral solution (pH = 7.0) obviously WON’T dissolve the shells - they will sit there just fine in pure water for ever! So, just how low does pH have to go to “dissolve” the seashells?

30 posted on 09/25/2007 6:16:49 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: darkwing104

No, nothing that drastic, only that the U. S. economy must be de-industrialized, set back to, say, the status quo ca. 1810.


31 posted on 09/25/2007 6:55:01 PM PDT by Elsiejay (,)
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To: ricks_place
"About one-third of the CO2 from fossil-fuel burning is absorbed by the world’s oceans," explains Ken Caldeira at Stanford University in California, US, who led the study.

And how much of CO2 from natural sources is absorbed by the world's oceans and wouldn't this be an enormous amount in comparison that released from fossil-fuel burning? Are they saying that 1/3 of all CO2 is absorbed by the Earth's Oceans each year or that CO2 from my SUV is special? Anyway, I thought we were told that a warming ocean would release CO2.

32 posted on 09/25/2007 8:20:00 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Democrat Happens!)
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To: sourcery
NASA Researchers Find Snowmelt in Antarctica Creeping Inland


33 posted on 09/25/2007 10:10:50 PM PDT by cogitator (Welcome to my world!)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Just what pH is required to ACTUALLY DISSOLVE the shells? A completely neutral solution (pH = 7.0) obviously WON’T dissolve the shells - they will sit there just fine in pure water for ever! So, just how low does pH have to go to “dissolve” the seashells?

It's not just about pH, it's about the saturation level with respect to CaCO3 (and there's more than one form of CaCO3 formed by marine organisms, so they have varying solubilities). Changing the pH just a little alters the carbonate equilibrium substantially, lowering it moves it toward undersaturation. In general, surface ocean waters have a pH of 8.2 to 8.4, and deeper ocean waters from 7.5 to 7.8. These deeper ocean waters are undersaturated with respect to CaCO3, and therefore corrosive.

34 posted on 09/25/2007 10:16:09 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: quintr
The solution of CO2 in ocean water does NOT make the surface water acidic because water is so highly buffered that it doesn't change pH of the ocean,

It won't make it acidic but it will lower the pH.

35 posted on 09/25/2007 10:17:06 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: CPOSharky
Aren’t plankton responsible for more CO2 - O2 conversion than plants?

I think it's about 60% plankton, 40% terrestrial vegetation, but don't quote me.

36 posted on 09/25/2007 10:18:13 PM PDT by cogitator
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To: cogitator

Both data sets are consistent with each other.


37 posted on 09/25/2007 10:47:40 PM PDT by sourcery (Referring a "social conservative" to the Ninth Amendment is like showing the Cross to Dracula.)
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