UK: Seized 'art porn' owned by Sir Elton John (being examined to determine if it's child porn)

The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | September 25, 2007 | Sophie Borland and Nigel Reynolds

[Stoat]

Seized 'art porn' owned by Sir Elton John

By Sophie Borland and Nigel Reynolds
 

Last Updated: 4:49pm BST 25/09/2007

A photograph by a controversial American artist which is part of Sir Elton John's private collection has been seized by police from a gallery on suspicion it may have breached child pornography laws.

• The image, which featured two young girls one of whom was sitting down with her legs wide apart, was taken by the renowned photographer Nan Goldin.

  The shot, from the artist's Thanksgiving series, was to be exhibited at the Baltic Modern Art gallery, Tyneside, this week along with some of her other work. But the day before it was due to be viewed by the public, police came and removed the image over fears that it might be breaking the law.

  It is thought that one of the assistant directors at the centre called in the authorities last Thursday after a private view as he was concerned that the picture could be offensive.

  The picture is now being examined by lawyers at the Crown Prosecution Service.

  Officials at the gallery confirmed that the police were involved but refused to say who had decided the picture should be removed.

  Peter Doroschenko, the director of the gallery, said: "I'm afraid I can't comment on this."

  Claire Byers, the communications director, said: "The police are involved in this incident and we are fully cooperating with their inquiries. That is all I can say on this at the moment."

  The image is being examined by police and lawyers from the Crown Prosecution Service are offering preliminary advice.

  A Northumbria police spokesman said yesterday: "The circumstances around who may have been involved in the production of the image and who may have owned it or owns it forms part of the investigation.

  "We attended the Baltic Centre last Thursday at the invitation of the management who were seeking advice about an item for an exhibition prior to it going on public display.

  "This item is being assessed and Northumbria Police, in consultation with the CPS, is investigating the circumstances surrounding it. The incident is ongoing and investigations are now being carried out."

  Goldin, 54, is well known for her shots of young, semi-clothed girls.

  Thanksgiving is described by the Baltic as an installation of photographs which documents Goldin's life from 1973 to 1999 - "a micro-retrospective of her career."

  In 2001, one of her photos featuring a very young naked girl looking up between the open legs of a semi-clothed older child had been criticised for making money from exploiting children. It was published in a book alongside similar works to accompany an exhibition at the Saatchi Gallery in north London.

  Goldin was born in Washington DC, ran away from home and was fostered by several families during her childhood. She moved to New York after graduating from art school where she took became known for pictures of alcoholics, drug addicts and Aids sufferers.

  She was admitted to rehab in the 1990s and much of her work since has reflected her own experiences.

  Sir Elton John has long been an admirer of her work and is also a close friend. He was not available for comment and a spokesman referred inquiries to the Baltic.

  This is not the first time an artist's pictures of children has been stripped from a public gallery over fears that it was obscene.

[Stoat]

More:

Child porn police seize gallery art Metro.co.uk

Child porn police seize gallery art

Tuesday, September 25, 2007

 

The £46million Baltic Centre

Police have raided an acclaimed museum and confiscated a work of art alleged to be child porn.

Officers took away an image of a child from the £46million Baltic Centre in Gateshead.

Crown Prosecution Service lawyers are now considering whether the artwork breaches child pornography laws.

The allegedly offending image is not thought to have been seen yet by members of the public.

Police said they acted after being contacted for advice by managers of the Baltic Centre for Contemporary Art on Gateshead's Quayside.

Artists displayed at the venue include American artist Nan Goldin, using photos donated from Sir Elton John's collection.

The rock star bought Goldin's series of pictures called Exhibition, after attending an exhibition 16 years ago.

Fellow US photographer Kendell Geers, accused by some critics of blasphemy, is also exhibiting at the centre.

But police and Baltic bosses have refused to name the artwork seized or the artist.

The gallery has attracted an estimated 2.5million visitors since opening five years ago.

[Billthedrill]

Sir Elton is interested in girls?

[Stoat]

Sir Elton is interested in girls?

I would suggest that one possible explanation for his ownership of this item is that because he doesn't care for women, he may have a less than healthy appreciation for their honor and dignity.  Therefore, he may see nothing wrong with the debasement of a young girl.

Wouldn't it be interesting to have this lead to a wider probe into his personal collection?  Who knows what might be found there........

[Enchante]

Hey, if it’s “art” then “anything goes” - right? /s

It continues to amaze me how self-styled “artists” think that the more disgusting something is, the more avant-garde cache it deserves......

[Bigh4u2]

“Sir Elton is interested in girls?”

I think he is more interested in helping a ‘friend’ who is.

[mojito]

Do a google images search on “Nan Goldin,” and you can see what this is all about.

[Utah Binger]

Suck in all the idiots with this typical publicity stunt. Now we get to hear from Sir Elton as he makes an effort to make us all believe it is art while the politically correct idiots kiss his queer behind.

[TypeZoNegative]

Maybe.

But it’s shocking to see what passes as “art” these days. And this is coming from somebody that lives in an art hotspot and who grew up 2 miles away from a nationally renowned art museum in the Walker Art Center.

[Stoat]

Hey, if it’s “art” then “anything goes” - right? /s

It continues to amaze me how self-styled “artists” think that the more disgusting something is, the more avant-garde cache it deserves......

When someone has no artistic talent, there's always a market for 'works' whose only claim to fame is in their shock value which is of course marketed as 'edgy' , 'groundbreaking' and 'cutting edge' and so is fawned over by the effete, sissified know-nothing snobs.

Michelangelo would likely die of starvation or be forced to be a truck driver to make a living in today's 'art' market.

"sigh"

(not that there's anything wrong with being a truck driver)

 

Hey, if it’s “art” then “anything goes” - right? /s

It continues to amaze me how self-styled “artists” think that the more disgusting something is, the more avant-garde cache it deserves......

[Stoat]

Now we get to hear from Sir Elton as he makes an effort to make us all believe it is art while the politically correct idiots kiss his queer behind.

I have no doubt that he will play this for all it's worth, casting himself as a 'victim of homophobia' and how 'the evil, right-wing Neanderthal prudes' have no appreciation for 'quality art'.

Utterly sickening.

[Utah Binger]

I have always said that if I stand naked on top of my gallery building and drop $100 bills all day long, we would easily make the national press.

It’s art, not obscenity.

Problem is, I'm an ugly old fat fart.

[Hyzenthlay]

If people are paying to see or own a piece of artwork or copies of that piece, or in some cases even if it’s just being displayed as ‘art’, it definitely needs a model release, which should be signed by the girls’ parents if the girls are under 18. Therefore, the issue of whether or not the girls were underage should be easy to determine. Unless, there is no model release, in which case the artist may get in trouble for lack of a model release. The artist is only going to be completely technically innocent if she can prove that everyone in the pictures are young-looking adults.

[Leo Farnsworth]

EJ is one messed up dude. Always has been. This does not surprise...

[SWAMPSNIPER]

Goldin is not an exceptional photographer. She uses good equipment. Her fame is due to the nature of her subject matter and it’s appeal to the artsy crafty and their pervert friends. Some of her works appear, to me, to be serious mistakes, processed to look exotic. All she seems to have going for her is a strong stomach.
Any hippies in disagreement with me, please take a number, and get in line!

[Redcloak]

Sir Elton is interested in girls?

The young, boyish looking ones, it would seem.

[buffaloKiller]

There is no such thing as “homophobia”. It is a marxist agitprop term to confuse the “mush-for-brains” moderates and “died-to-God’s forgiveness” Liberals.
This post illustrates that fear and lothing of queerness is NOT irrational - phobia=irrational (unfounded) fear.
Another term needs to arise and be used that is the correct description of opposition to queerism (sexual perversaty in all its variants) - one that comes from the conservative Christian perspective.
This term would necessarily be a perjorative as the “homos” view any other position than theirs as “hate speech”.

[ninonitti]

I remember when rock was young;

Me and Suzy had so much fun......

[Brett66]

When you think about who was knighted back in the 15th- 16th century, they sure have lowered the bar. Johnny would be nothing more than a court jester back then.

[mrmargaritaville]

hey elton, prison ain’t so bad-three squares a day and all the sex you want.

[IronJack]

George Michael, Boy George, Pete Townshend, now Elton Queen. It’s dangerous to your masculinity to become a British rock musician.

[Thebaddog]

Agreed. I googled her up and came up with swamp angel images in good color.

[Stoat]

Agreed on all counts....that term has always irritated me, as there is no ‘fear’ involved, but more a visceral disgust at something that is obviously and demonstrably unnatural.

Furthermore, I would like to remove the descriptor ‘sex’ from references to any homoexual interactions of a physical nature, because there is no functional, biological component to it.

[donna]

You shouldn’t put such images in your mind.

[pianomikey]

We always seem to be pushing the envelope a little bit more every day... we need a schlafly-esque crusader to say “thus far and no farther” with respect to Art, so this crap doesn’t keep floating to the top.

[A_perfect_lady]

Why do people get such a jolly out of being creepy with kids?? I just do not get it.

[biscuit jane]

““Sir Elton is interested in girls?”

I think he is more interested in helping a ‘friend’ who is.”

I agree. He isn’t interested in girls. He likes
dudes that look like girls. But yeah he is probably
helping his friend.

And yeah I remember when Pete Townsend was “just doing research” on child porn. How many vidoes and photos for the research ??? Sick.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Coming soon to a neigborhood near you!

[pianomikey]

Just googled it... reminds me of mapplethorpe. Pretty twisted stuff.

[Rastus]

I’d love to see John go down over this.

Hmm. Maybe that’s not the best phrase where he’s involved, but you get the idea.

[pianomikey]

I have seen the photo in question. There is no doubt that they’re under 18. More like 5 year olds.

[Stoat]

George Michael, Boy George, Pete Townshend, now Elton Queen. It’s dangerous to your masculinity to become a British rock musician.

Add to that Freddie Mercury (Queen), Rob Halford (Judas Priest), persistent rumors pertaining to Mick Jagger and David Bowie as well as legions of others I'm sure.

To be fair, most British rock musicians are far better and more successful than the majority of American ones and so we're more likely to hear about the various weirdnesses from them simply because more of them are in the public eye.

If I remember correctly, FReeper ccmay has some interesting perspectives on how Socialist homosexuals have infected Government in the UK for decades.....perhaps there's a link?  Perhaps there is some sort of organized encouragement for homosexuals to get into the arts?

The queers in the USA also dominate many arenas of art, but I haven't gotten the impression that they have taken over Government to quite as similar an extent.

[maine-iac7]

It’s art, not obscenity.

As an artist, I find that anyone who hides behind art for the exploitation of children are scum who need to be separated from society - at least from any possible contact with children -

Art, it is not.,

[Gay State Conservative]

EJ is one messed up dude. Always has been. This does not surprise...

Messed up? You're being far too kind.Utterly and irretrievably amoral is more like it.

[maine-iac7]

Absolutely - would help a great deal on cutting down this diabolic trade

[Billthedrill]

Do a google images search on “Nan Goldin,” and you can see what this is all about.

I was about to complain that all I found was a collection of rather ugly adults with some serious sexual issues. But I did finally happen on the picture in question. Out of bounds, IMHO, and I'm no prude. Thing is, when that kid reaches adolescence she is likely to feel pretty seriously violated if she enounters that hanging in public. That's the problem with very young people in art - they are, in fact, people, not art.

[Hyzenthlay]

Alright, I’ll believe you cause I don’t feel like looking it up or looking at it for that matter. That stuff is so sick and twisted... ‘art’ is no excuse, I’ll even call inflated black trash bags ‘art’ before I’ll ever admit that child porn is artistic.

[Stoat]

Why do people get such a jolly out of being creepy with kids?? I just do not get it.

I have heard law enforcement officers say that much of it has to do with a desire to exert power and control over others, oftentimes by people who either have a fervent desire for power or by those who feel that they have never been able to exert power over others, and so they turn to children because they are easier for a sick, cowardly mind to manipulate than an adult.

I hesitate to get into psychoanalyzing others from afar, but in the case of a fabulously wealthy homosexual such as Elton John, my first impulse is to think that it has to do with his dislike for women.....he has no fondness or respect for them and so he has no problem with viewing them in a depraved way.  Furthermore, it may have deep-rooted relationships to his homosexuality in that because he knows, deep down, that he is mentally ill, he justifies it by demeaning young and innocent girls....by portraying them in a disgusting way, he reduces their value and in so doing legitimizes his 'lifestyle' choice..

It's all evil, pure and simple.

Ladies are the Light of the Universe and the Crown of Creation, and should be treated as such.  Woman is the bearer of Life and as such deserves the utmost courtesy, respect and reverence.

 

[pianomikey]

Yes, agree totally. We’ve lived thousands of years without a single QUESTION of whether what we were looking at is “art” or not. If authorities have to even LOOK at it to make sure it’s not child exploitation, it ain’t art. If a college kid could set it as his roommate’s desktop in order to gross him out (Mapplethorpe), it ain’t art. If I get the urge to throw up, it ain’t art.

There, problem solved.

[TFFKAMM]

And don't let's forget about (arguably) the sickest puppy of 'em all: Gary Glitter.

[Grizzled Bear]

I have always said that if I stand naked on top of my gallery building and drop $100 bills all day long, we would easily make the national press.

---

To be “Art” you have to throw excrement.

No sarc tag.

[Stoat]

And don't let's forget about (arguably) the sickest puppy of 'em all: Gary Glitter.

Oh Lawdy, talk about evil!

I suppose that for some, having fabulous wealth gives them the freedom to publicly exercise their true personas which other sick perverts have to keep hidden, as they don't have the ability to hire expensive lawyers to get them out of 'indiscretions'.

 

[MikeGranby]

> I have seen the photo in question. There
> is no doubt that they’re under 18. More
> like 5 year olds.

This puts the police in an interesting position. Given that they have charged people with the possession of child porn for having much less shocking images (eg. children on the beach) then if they let this one go, they’re rather going against the entire direction of their recent policy. And yet if the go after Sir Elton, they’ll be going after a popular figure, and they risk jury nullification...

[pianomikey]

Good point. Not sure where the line would be drawn. If I had a picture of my topless two year old niece that couldn’t possibly be considered provocative, no one would bat an eye. Had she been in a diaper? Panties? Less? I wouldn’t go there, but yeah, how young is “acceptable” for naked baby photos?? Five or six years old is obviously getting toward pedo territory, but why? It’s a tough call, but then again it’s likely that if they’re pedophiles they’ll have far more incriminating photos than the “borderline” ones. As a previous freeper posted, let’s see what turns up on his hard drive...

[Rennes Templar]

“I have always said that if I stand naked on top of my gallery building and drop $100 bills all day long, we would easily make the national press.”

Actually I think if you did that fully clothed you would make national press.

That said, I hope they nail EJ.

[Grizzled Bear]

Utah Binger is the one who wants to stand around naked throwing $100 bills (post 11). I just suggested throwing feces in post 40.

[Maelstorm]

“Why do people get such a jolly out of being creepy with kids?? I just do not get it.”

That is a very good question. It is horrible. I think it is a combination of things like control and availability. Some of the individuals think they ‘love’ the child and who in a most twisted way believe sex is the next step. That is one of the dangers of allowing sex and love become so confused in society. It helps set the stage for the awakening of monsters.

[TFFKAMM]

Also, many of them had it done to themselves as kids, and internalized it as “normal.” Truly a vicious cycle.

[Maelstorm]

Yes that is true, many abusers were abused. I’ve always been highly concerned that so many male homosexuals report that they were abused or had sex with older men while children. Not that homosexuals are the only abusers which would be farthest from the case. I do not however think many really think the abuse is normal. A person can not grow up and not know that it isn’t. I do think that the psychology of couping with abuse can sometimes be turned in on itself.

Those who are abused as children grow up with a profound sense of inferiority and powerlessness. Some find positive ways to overcome this and others find comfort and pleasure in the abuse of those who they do not feel powerless against. I think for some their abuse of children is a reflection of their own internalized self hatred that powerless child that they were.

[Paulus]

The modles remind me of the Metallica video “Whiskey in the jar”