Bin Laden may have just escaped U.S. forces

msnbc ^ | 9-26-07

[SevenMinusOne]

Bin Laden may have just escaped U.S. forces August mission in Tora Bora almost snared 'high value target'

A little more than a month ago, with the anniversary of Sept. 11 approaching and fears of a new al Qaeda attack rising, some U.S. intelligence and military analysts thought they had found one of the world’s two most wanted men just where they last saw them six years ago.

For three days and nights — between Aug. 14 and 16 — U.S. and Afghanistan forces pounded the mountain caves in Tora Bora, the same caves where Osama Bin Laden had hidden out and then fled in late 2001 after U.S. forces drove al Qaeda out of Afghanistan cities. Ultimately, however, U.S. forces failed to find Bin Laden or his deputy, Ayman al Zawahiri, even though their attacks left dozens of al Qaeda and Taliban dead.

What happened this time? Military officials admit there were unidentified "planning and coordination problems" even before it got to execution, “primarily between the operators and the generals who give the go-orders” added an intelligence official. A company of the 82nd Airborne was brought in since a Ranger team trained in special operations was not available. But the combination of the “dark side” — the SEALs — and the conventional — the 82nd Airborne — didn't work. "They didn't gel," said the military official. There was "a lack of responsiveness to the intelligence and a lack of aggressiveness."

[SevenMinusOne]

Conventional forces (and their risk adverse Gen's/JAGs) constantly strectching our OODA loop....and AQ HVTs continue to operate within in it....

[tdewey10]

Osama is dead Jim.

And has been for a looooong time.

[tdewey10]

Osama is dead Jim.

And has been for a looooong time.

[Poser]

MSNBC - Fake news.

[princess leah]

Seems to me that we need to just flatten the entire area out when we have a “good idea” where he is. Collateral damage - you bet! Wipe ‘em out - those tribal groups are sympathizers and supporters responsible for killing our guys and afghany fighters.

[AmericanMade1776]

Too bad we can not kill Bin Laden more than once though.

[Robert357]

......even though their attacks left dozens of al Qaeda and Taliban dead

Sounds like the operation had some success.

[L98Fiero]

“MSNBC - Fake news.”

No lie. What is this “may have” crap? Ridiculous.

[jveritas]

Our troops will get the evil subhuman, they will get him.

[SevenMinusOne]

No, he's alive (as is Zawahrir, M.Omar, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and another half-dozen HVTs we've been hunting in the Stan/Pak border region for the past 5 years)....

But we'll get each one of them.....in time... (Just as we did to Saddam and Zarqawi, both of which, many kept insisting they were dead or didn't even exist...until we actually killed them).

[Aria]

"a lack of responsiveness to the intelligence and a lack of aggressiveness."

Maybe they didn't want some general deciding they should be tried for murdering Bin Laden.

[Dog]

Well Dev I see our forum naysayers are out in force tonight....so many here will eat crow someday...

[umgud]

Too bad we can not kill Bin Laden more than once though.

Sure we can. Clone him and kill him and reclone him and rekill him.............

[BIGLOOK]

Just for old times sake.

[rdl6989]

...constantly strectching our OODA loop....and AQ HVT Pardon my stupidity, but what does that mean??? I find it hard to believe that Obama I mean Osama, and/or Ayman al-Zawahiri would still be around Tora Bora.

[potlatch]

The walking dead

[AliVeritas]

ping

Hey Dev, didn’t you just post that Mike S article?

[rdl6989]

Oops never mind, I didn’t read all of it.

[toddlintown]

This raghead’s taking a dirt nap.

Get over it.

[Wally_Kalbacken]

It doesn’t get much better than watching Keith Olbermann speak fawningly with Michael Scheuer, the former CIA officer in charge of locating Osama bin Laden. He sets him up for answers criticizing the Bush administration by the simple fact that they have not found/killed/captured by the time of the interview. Completely overlooking the fact that from 1996-1999 he was in charge of locating OBL himself, and failed completely in that responsibility. It’s right up there with calling in the oracle himself (John Dean) and neglecting to mention his guilty plea to a felony obstruction of justice charge (in order to avoid many felony counts of obstruction, perjury, etc.) in order to allow him more time to pour vitriol all over the Bush administration. Sheesh.

[airborne]

I read the whole story, and all I can say is, “What a load of crap this reporter is spreading!”

He wrote the headline and then tried to make the story fit.

[haroldeveryman]

MSNBC- “While the intelligence did not provide “positively identification” that Bin Laden or Zawahiri were at the scene, there was enough other intelligence to suggest that one of the two men was there.”

Freepers-
“Sounds like the operation had some success.”
“Fake news.”
“What is this “may have” crap? Ridiculous!”

I had the same feeling you guys did after reading the article. We caught a bunch of Al Qaeda with their pants down and killed them. But MSNBC just had to come up with some speculative crap that makes a success look like a failure. Classic MSM.

[theBuckwheat]

The videos that his ilk keep putting out in his name universally leave me with the impression that he has been dead for a long time.

[devolve]

.

Cute!

[potlatch]

He walks with his eyes closed!

[MrBambaLaMamba]

...some U.S. intelligence and military analysts thought... One of the officials interviewed by NBC News...admitted Tuesday that it was “possible” Bin Laden was at Tora Bora...some in the special operations and intelligence community are telling NBC News that...no one is willing to say...there was no expectation that Bin Laden or Zawahiri would be there, say U.S. military and intelligence officials ...Senior officials in the U.S. and Pakistan tell NBC News...Another official said that intelligence analysts believed... many believed it was Bin Laden...said the official...Also, locals reported the presence of groups ...“He's surrounded by the true believers,” reported Rick Francona, who worked with CIA and special ops teams in Iraq in the 1990s....One senior military official said ...One general predicts, "That's the way we'll get Bin Laden." ...Military officials admit ..."They didn't gel," said the military official....Michael Sheehan, a former Army Special Operations colonel and counter terrorism ambassador...Rangers were moved to Iraq, said a special operations officer...The 82nd, said a second special operations officer...

So, besides the two guys who did something back in the day, who did MSNBC really speak with?

[LanaTurnerOverdrive]

Osama is dead Jim.

Wishful thinking. The CIA continues to verify the authenticity of his audio. When you provide me with a reasonable explanation as to why our intelligence communities would lie to us (about this), I will be all ears.

[1COUNTER-MORTER-68]

Shahi Kot Valley~~Objective Ginger,,,I’m 90% sure...FWIW...

[Dr. Frank fan]

The CIA continues to verify the authenticity of his audio.

I know. Which is really strange. Some people may believe there's such a thing as definitively "verifying" a voice on a scratchy, noisy audiotape, but I sure don't.

When you provide me with a reasonable explanation as to why our intelligence communities would lie to us (about this), I will be all ears.

My guess is that they're not "lying", it's just that they believe too much in whatever voice-ID algorithm was written for them by some software company. "But the software says it's a Match! See? The word 'MATCH' is printed right up there on the screen!"

[VeniVidiVici]

Quite frankly even if he is alive he sure as hell ain’t enjoying himself. I’d almost prefer the status quo. He can’t sleep, can’t eat and his sheep go wanting.

[BuffaloJack]

> Osama is dead Jim.
> And has been for a looooong time.

No kidding. The only people who don’t realize this are the MSM.

Ayman al-Zawahiri on the other hand needs killing dadly.
That sewer rat is the brains behind everything and should be to top of the Pentagon’s A-list of who to bump off.

[L98Fiero]

“MSNBC just had to come up with some speculative crap that makes a success look like a failure.”

Precisely. We route some Al Qaeda and they make it look like a miss with that “may have” nonsense.

[arthurus]

Osama will always escape capture. He made his final escape years ago in those mountains. He is in a Safe Place now where the Americans can never reach him and he has his 72 Virgins to protect him.

[arthurus]

I did not see him in the video. I saw someone with no wrinkles.

[ChessExpert]

Bin Laden may have just escaped U.S. forces. Or, he may be dead.

There are a lot of mays in that article. Also a lot tightly edited quotes, many from unattributed sources. I liked this bit of Democratic party thinking: “But the bigger part of the picture is the question of allocation of resources from Afghanistan to Iraq.”

I can just see the Democratic party insisting we take soldiers out of Iraq to chase a man who has been obliterated for some time. When things work out badly, Bush will be left holding the bag. That kind of “help,” we can do without. Just my 2 cents. :)

[arthurus]

The Left/MSM has insisted all along that the only semi-legitimate reason for the war is to bring the criminal Osama to Justice. If we captured him or verified his demise the left would go all out with tremoundous amounts of Soros money to force us to quit the war because WE’VE WON! WE GOT THE PERP” BRING THE BOYS HOME! NOW! and they wuld probably get a lot more support from the non-left. That was very important a couple of years ago, less so now but it would still present a much hairier political situation here at home. When I read the CIA “authentication” it seemed to have a certain amount of fudge in it, like well yes it could be him. They didn’t say it was definitely him or even most likely him but further statements were as if it were Osama. It seemed devious.

[rawcatslyentist]

Here's who he "escaped" with.

[tina07]

coming up on NBC news at 11 - “Osama may have been spotted in his cave”...that’s what Chuck Scarborough just said as the ‘hook’ for the 11:00 news...moron that Chuck is..

[ChessExpert]

“When I read the CIA “authentication” it seemed to have a certain amount of fudge in it, like well yes it could be him. They didn’t say it was definitely him or even most likely him but further statements were as if it were Osama. It seemed devious.”

I haven’t read it, but I will take your word for it. I suspect that after Clinton’s influence, the CIA may be a little to the left of the University of California Berkeley. It seems like they’ve only been bad news for Bush-Cheney.

[do the dhue]

Seems to me that we need to just flatten the entire area out when we have a “good idea” where he is.

entire area? You mean Lake Afghanistan or Ground Zero Ocean?

[arthurus]

The CIA has always been to the left. It recruits out of the Ivy league, specifically, Harvard and Yale. Its new guys have no experience of the real world of getting and spending before they go in and they come from wealthy, usually liberal, families. They are people who make careers out of working for the government and they are mostly immune to firing. CIA has always, along with the State Department, worked to undermine unapproved Republican presidents. On top of that, Republicans do not fire all the non Civil Service employees when they get into office the way the Democrats do, so Republican appointees only last until the Democrats come back. Democrats go on forever. Tenet, even. Reagan bypassed the CIA structure to get the knowledge of the USSR’s economy that allowed him to bring it down.

[CJ Wolf]

“let’s make that about to happen”?

[CJ Wolf]

“The CIA has always been to the left. It recruits out of the Ivy league, specifically.....”

You have obviously no idea how the CIA works or what it does. That’s a good thing.

[shield]

LOL...you know how to draw ‘em in, with a thread like this. You’ve got all the ‘UBL is Dead’ crowd...and they seem to run to UBL threads....to scream he’s dead. When they’ve got NO proof whatsoever, he’s dead. ;o)

[do the dhue]

Even if UBL is dead, I don’t think we should tell anyone. The demorats and the simple minded who listen to them would think the war was over. We have a lot more terrorist to kill. If people want to give peace a chance, they should kill a terrorist. We have a lot more work to do and we don’t need to think it is over.

[do the dhue]

It was on the picture. Why wanna make it happen? Pass me the football.

[shield]

I understand that type of thinking....many have said that...but, I believe he’s alive and HAS TO keep his head down...look at the bounty on his head. Wouldn’t one think for that bounty there are true hunters lookin’ for that old terrorist, too?

[maine-iac7]

Someone posited an interesting theory to me the other day - he believes Binny may well be in the Philippines - there, the Al Queda don’t wear beards...which would account for the strange (fake) black beard?

I doubt, if he is still taking up oxygen, that he’s anywhere near Tora Bora =

[do the dhue]

We should sic the Dog on him:

[mimaw]

According to libs we diverted our best forces to Iraq. Do you see their story line now.