Posted on 09/27/2007 9:22:43 AM PDT by lady lawyer
The oldest person I ever arrested when I was a cop was probably in his 80s. I stopped Bill one afternoon on suspicion of driving under the influence.
When I asked Bill for his driver license, he picked blearily through his wallet, then handed me a Polaroid of his genitals.
I told Bill to get out of the car. Realizing his mistake - and that I was now going to want to know who he really was - Bill tried to drive away instead. An incident ensued during which Bill got a small ding in the head.
Passers-by didn't see that Bill was drunk, that he had given me a picture of his doodle or that he tried to drag me onto the highway while I leaned in the window and grabbed his keys. All they saw was a mean cop roughing up somebody's grandpa.
Fortunately, celebrity attorney and legal showboat Gloria Allred didn't find out about that. Orem Officer James Flygare isn't so lucky. Allred came to town last week to save kindly Grandma Betty Perry from Flygare and the forces of darkness.
In July, Perry allegedly became disorderly and interfered with Flygare as he attempted to issue her a citation for deliberately violating the city's landscaping ordinances. She was arrested and taken to jail.
The arrest of an elderly woman for simply failing to water her lawn horrified everyone, including Orem City, which immediately rolled onto its back and tinkled a public apology into the air.
At a press conference after Perry's appearance in court Tuesday, Allred held aloft a set of 19th-century leg irons and asked how many Orem residents would "like to have your great-grandmother taken from her home with bruises and blood, and placed in handcuffs for failing to water her lawn?"
That's one way of asking it. Another way would be to say, "How many of you would like to see a cranky old woman get what she's had coming for a long time?"
It's a fair question. With even a little digging, Perry no more resembles the average lilac-scented grandmother than a real pirate resembles Captain Morgan.
Perry wasn't arrested for failing to water her lawn. She was only going to get a ticket for that. She got arrested because she deliberately pushed it to the next level and wouldn't let Flygare write the ticket.
I suppose it's possible Jim screwed up. He's been through a lot. In 2002 he was wounded by a burglary suspect, whom he then shot and killed. He also shot it out fatally with a bank robber in 2005.
Maybe he's decided to cut back and just beat up old ladies.
But I'm betting the problem is more a matter of perception. What the public doesn't see is that Perry has long history of confrontational behavior with Orem City, her neighbors, clerks and anyone else who gets in her way.
Thanks to the media, Allred and even Orem City, the public sees Perry as a nice old lady who can't afford to water her lawn, or is too infirm or maybe just forgets. Orem City gets nasty e-mail from all over the world from people who think they know what happened.
The truth is that Perry lives comfortably enough on a retirement plan. She has an older Mercedes in her driveway, and an RV that she drives to Florida. She has a sprinkling system.
Although she can afford it, she asked to have her water shut off nearly a year ago. She just doesn't want to water her lawn, and she's said so to lots of people. Her lawn has been reseeded and had new sod put down by a local church. It was dead a month later. She became angry when someone trimmed the waist-high weeds in her backyard.
When Flygare tried to let her know about the law, she told him that she didn't care, she wasn't going to water her lawn, and moreover, she was leaving town. Then she refused to tell him who she was.
So she got arrested. It's fair. Why should age, gender or race make someone exempt from the law? If it did, you can be sure I'd use "old, fat and stupid" as a defense the next time the UHP stopped me for driving like a lunatic.
As the columns states:
"Although she can afford it, she asked to have her water shut off nearly a year ago. She just doesn't want to water her lawn, and she's said so to lots of people. Her lawn has been reseeded and had new sod put down by a local church. It was dead a month later. She became angry when someone trimmed the waist-high weeds in her backyard."
Additional facts about "Grandma Betty" that aren't reported. She has a 40-something son that lives with her part of the time, who won't do anything about the property, but could. She was such a pain and a bully at the bank where she had her money that they closed her account and refused to serve her anymore.
BTW, I couldn't help but wonder if old "Bill" described in the column is a Freeper. He seems to share the attitudes of some.
God made her. Let him judge her for having a screw loose.
Society is so impatient with the imperfect.
Indeed.
Sorry, Gloria Allred.
I know guys that have been beat cops for 20 years and never pulled their gun once.
No, I meant “Bill.” I was talking about some on this forum who automatically assume the cops are the bad guys.
You had a legitimate argument on the merits of the situation; and then you blew it with that.
It’s true. My dad was an LA cop for 20 years. He had to pull his gun, but he never had to fire it.
But then, I don’t think he ever had an armed burglar shoot at him, or confronted an armed bank robber. To both I say, “Good Riddance.”
Before you get all uppity,
the cite should have been mailed Certified, Return Receipt Requested. This was a civil matter, not a criminal one. One of the myriad little things that has caused loss of respect for the Cops and the real job they have is actions such as this, caused by political whores who think that the Public Servants are at their beck-and-call for any infraction they see.
I said “some.” If that doesn’t describe you, then you have no cause for consternation.
Nitpicking. He had a perfect right to be there at her door writing a ticket. She was the one who acted improperly.
Again, I’m glad that Orem has ordinances requiring people to keep up their property. If you want to keep your property looking like a slum, you should live outside the city limits where you don’t affect the property values of others.
Does Gloria Allred remind you of al sharpton?
They both are quite adept at conjuring, yes?
When the city begins to pay for the water, then the city can begin to require that I water my lawn. Otherwise they can just enjoy my beautiful beige yard.
If a person objects to watering their yard, they can put in landscaping that doesn’t require water. Maybe in your town, they have no landscaping standards. I’m glad they do where I live.
which immediately rolled onto its back and tinkled a public apology into the air.
That’s Pullitzer material right there!
Are you certain that the City of Orem didn't try that first?
‘But I’m betting the problem is more a matter of perception. What the public doesn’t see is that Perry has long history of confrontational behavior with Orem City, her neighbors, clerks and anyone else who gets in her way. ‘
No surprise too me at all. Its exceedingly rare a story doesn’t come out like this one did, and you DON’T learn later the ‘poor victim’ was in fact a pain in the ass to every single person in a given neighborhood.
The city doesn’t, but the HOA does. I’m glad you’re happy living where the government has the time and resources to control this particular sliver of life.
I understand if you may feel the need to defend such a comment to the death. A view from the cheap seats was all I was giving here.
the cite should have been mailed Certified, Return Receipt Requested. This was a civil matter, not a criminal one.Are you certain that the City of Orem didn't try that first?
I don't think so; he would have an arrest warrant for failing to either pay the ticket or appearing at court otherwise.
“If you want to keep your property looking like a slum, you should live outside the city limits where you don’t affect the property values of others.”
Err...I live in the suburbs, so you think my property values aren’t impacted if my neighbor decides to put 2 cars up on cinder blocks on his front lawn?
(hint: it does)
So she got arrested.
"Papieren, bitte!"
It's fair.
Only if you think it's the government's business who waters their lawn or not, or that police are entitled to demand identity papers from someone in their own home, or that failure to kowtow to the gendarmarie is an arrestable offense.
I don't care if this old bat was Mrs. Glick! The idea that she should be arrested because she refused to show proper deference to a cop is horsecrap. Cops work for US, not vice versa.
“What actually jumpled off the pages IMO, was the part where the arresting cop has killed two people since 2005.”
Actually, it was since 2002. Still, I have no problem with a cop shooting somebody who has just shot the cop or someone who is trying to shoot the cop.
Not necessarily. A personal visit is sometimes more effective -- you can't claim, for example, that you never saw the person who personally handed you a ticket.
Sounds like this lady is no sweetheart....
Of course old cars on blocks are bad news. I was thinking about rural areas. where there aren’t close neighbors.
Perhaps it’s the area one patrols. I have friends on LAPD who have to pull their gun every night. Then again they patrol at night where I would not venture at high noon.
Kudos to your Dad for protecting and serving.
Sounds like “Grandma Betty” is a cranky old bat. I think it’s pretty common for the victim in cases like these to turn out to be kooky in some way or another, because “normal people” would calculate that the costs for standing up for oneself aren’t worth it and just do what Big Brother asks. But being a cranky old bat isn’t a crime, although undoubtedly the same people who managed to legislate lawn care are working on it.
The only people who will ever know what happened between her and the police officer are, of course, her and the police officer, and neither of them can present an unbiased reporting of the facts. Maybe she fought with the cop and he hit her in self defense, and maybe not. But it doesn’t change the fact that he shouldn’t have been there in the first place. That’s the fault of the cop’s superiors and city government, not his own, but I would hope that at some point he would have the judgment to realize that this crazy person is not going to cooperate with this lawn care citation he has for some reason been asked to deliver and that walking away is smarter in this case than getting into a fight or making an arrest.
Not once did inform his reader that this all took place on the lady’s front porch; that she was responding to his arrival, uninvited, and there are no laws in Utah requiring homeowners to answer anyone’s questions.
He had a citation for the legal owner, was standing on her property so he knew the street address and the citation could have been sent registered mail.
The city codes people wanted to make an example of this person and the dumb-ass cop got caught in the middle.
LOL...thats the lawyer I want if I ever get in trouble.
BigMack
This is hard to believe. Who in the world carries a Polaroid of their genitals? A bas relief I could understand.
Still, anything we can do to get the Gloria commieAllreds out of the picture is a good thing. He got caught in the middle of the moonbats and the commissars. I wish him well.
The only landscaping that doesn’t require water is rock; after reading your posts you might have enough for the front yard if you have a smaller hat lying around somewhere.
The march toward a fascist police state continues, assisted by those who seek ‘order’ over freedom.
Assisted by many here on FR, too.
LOL. I actually worked on a case once where a male was putting polaroids of his genitals in females’ lockers at work.
Can you believe the nerve of some ornery old people! They should be SHOT! < /sarcasm>
While I accepted the citation (and did trim my hedge), the heavy-handed approach struck me as as wasteful of police resources, and unnecessarily confrontational.
It would've been a lot cheaper for the town's taxpayers, and nicer to me, if the town had simply sent me a letter saying that my hedge needed trimming to comply with local ordinances.
Now with Mrs. Perry, maybe her local gov't had atarted with the gentle approach, to no avail.
But I have to wonder about the judgment of the police and other local officials in going after this woman, this way. They have some latitude and discretion over enforcement of ordinances.
Why was is so important to have police confront somebody they knew was a dotty old bat ... when the only issue was a brown lawn, fer Pete's sake?
And this cop brought a hammer to do a sickle’s job.
So she got arrested. It's fair. Why should age, gender or race make someone exempt from the law?
I usually will come down on the side of the LEO unless there is evidence of misconduct. But in this case, I have to side with the cranky, mean old lady.
Why is failing to identify yourself when the officer is at your house an arrestable offense? Sorry, but if they wanted to cite her, they could have mailed it.
You know, like they do with the red light cameras.
She didn't identify herself. So what? The officer was there for a specific reason: her lawn. He was talking to her because he knew who she was. Him asking her to give her name was just for the purpose of writing her a citation on the spot. If she said, "I don't have to tell you!" and went inside, he could have gone back to the station, filled out the citation, and had it mailed to her.
But instead the officer (not the lady) decided to take it to the next level. He decided that she needed to be taught a lesson and be dragged to jail. He made that judgement that brought got us talking about it.
So while she was probably "that old bat" that everyone knew, the LEO was the one whose decisions brought us here.
Why on earth is any city allowed to have rules about watering lawns? You say it’s to protect land values. Well, then, should I be able to sue the city because they’re not doing enough for my property value? I think my property would be more valuable if my street had sidewalks. Can I force the city to put sidewalks in?
Why get personal? Isn’t it possible to disagree with you on this issue without being stupid?
Doesn’t everybody carry a picture of their genitals around just in case they’re stopped?
In New York, you can’t be arrested for a traffic infraction [have to be issued a summons] UNLESS you have no ID. Then it’s OK to arrest the person.
In this case, the old lady refused to confirm she was the person for whom the summons was to be issued [and if she refused to accept a certified letter, there’s no proof she got it], so as far as I’m concerned, the officer was within his rights to take her into custody.
There actually was an eye-witness. A neighbor saw the whole thing. The cop never hit her, and there never has been any allegation that he hit her, or “roughed her up.” That has been part of the dishonesty of the reporting on this matter. They keep talking about her being “bloodied,” but when you read the story, there is no allegation that the police “bloodied” her, because they didn’t.
She turned around and ran into her own front door after refusing to give her name, and got a bloody nose. Then she flopped on the ground like and NBA player and started yelling.
Exactly. The days of the friendly cop just talking to someone about a problem are gone. Now they just ticket, arrest and threaten. Sad.
Why is it relevant that the old lady is cranky or her yard does not look nice?
The lady was not arrested for lawn watering. She was arrested for not answering questions. A lot of us out here have a problem with that.
Who is this guy kidding? We have millions entering this country illegally, and the cops and government just look the other way, and in many cases coddle and pander to them, offering them money, freebies, free medical care and discounts.
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