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Myths Of British Ancestry
Prospect ^ | 10-2006 | Stephen Oppenheimer

Posted on 09/28/2007 7:42:35 AM PDT by blam

Myths of British ancestry

October 2006
Stephen Oppenheimer

Everything you know about British and Irish ancestry is wrong. Our ancestors were Basques, not Celts. The Celts were not wiped out by the Anglo-Saxons, in fact neither had much impact on the genetic stock of these islands

The fact that the British and the Irish both live on islands gives them a misleading sense of security about their unique historical identities. But do we really know who we are, where we come from and what defines the nature of our genetic and cultural heritage? Who are and were the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish and the English? And did the English really crush a glorious Celtic heritage?

Everyone has heard of Celts, Anglo-Saxons and Vikings. And most of us are familiar with the idea that the English are descended from Anglo-Saxons, who invaded eastern England after the Romans left, while most of the people in the rest of the British Isles derive from indigenous Celtic ancestors with a sprinkling of Viking blood around the fringes.

Yet there is no agreement among historians or archaeologists on the meaning of the words "Celtic" or "Anglo-Saxon." What is more, new evidence from genetic analysis (see note below) indicates that the Anglo-Saxons and Celts, to the extent that they can be defined genetically, were both small immigrant minorities. Neither group had much more impact on the British Isles gene pool than the Vikings, the Normans or, indeed, immigrants of the past 50 years.

The genetic evidence shows that three quarters of our ancestors came to this corner of Europe as hunter-gatherers, between 15,000 and 7,500 years ago, after the melting of the ice caps but before the land broke away from the mainland and divided into islands.

(Excerpt) Read more at prospect-magazine.co.uk ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ancestry; basques; british; celtiberians; fartyshadesofgreen; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; iberia; ireland; myth; portugal; scotland; scotlandyet; spain; stephenoppenheimer; unitedkingdom; wales; welsh
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I highly recommend Oppenheimer's book, Origins Of The British

85% of the DNA of the original post Ice Age settlers to Britain is still there.

I am yDNA haplogroup R1b as are 90% of the Irish. I just discovered yesterday that if your DYS-390 component is 23 instead of 24...you're likely to be German-Scandanavian. I'm probably a Viking or Anglo-Saxon invader? Still an Atlantic Modal Haplotype I believe.

1 posted on 09/28/2007 7:42:38 AM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv; Pharmboy

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 09/28/2007 7:43:18 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

<>< Must read ><>


3 posted on 09/28/2007 7:46:04 AM PDT by SnarlinCubBear ("Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." -- Thomas Mann)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: blam

This sad little lizard told me that he was a brontosaurus on his mother’s side.
I did not laugh; people who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them.
Humoring them costs nothing and adds to happiness in a world in which happiness is always in short supply.

LAZARUS LONG


5 posted on 09/28/2007 7:49:18 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
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To: blam

O’ppenheimer, a grand old Irish name!


6 posted on 09/28/2007 7:49:21 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: blam
English is a Germanic language. Why do the Basques living in England speak the language of the Anglo-Saxons? And why to the speakers of the Celtic languages live on the edges of the island, almost like they were pushed there by a successful invader? And why is the place called Angle-Land anyway?

Genetics tells one story. Language patterns tell a different story.

7 posted on 09/28/2007 7:51:11 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agamemnon dead.)
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To: blam

Oxford’s Bryan Sykes, who invented the genetic population testing method, has written some interesting books on this subject, too. In “Blood of the Isles,” he wrote that neither Anglo-Saxons nor other population groups have much impact on the genetics of the inhabitants of the UK, except for Iberians, and that British ancestry can be traced back mainly to Spain. Fascinating information. I heartily recommend his “The Seven Daughters of Eve.”


8 posted on 09/28/2007 7:54:23 AM PDT by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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To: blam

Well, at least they’re not claiming to be descendants of a full blooded Cherokee Indian princess...............


9 posted on 09/28/2007 7:55:00 AM PDT by Red Badger (ALL that CARBON in ALL that oil & coal was once in the atmosphere. We're just putting it back!)
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To: Right Wing Assault
"O’ppenheimer, a grand old Irish name!"

He's a British Jew who says his name is derived from the town name of Oppenheim, Germany.


10 posted on 09/28/2007 7:55:05 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: ClearCase_guy
English is a Germanic language

It is? How much Anglo-Saxon is left after the French invaded in 1066? It is rare to find the raw guttural, monosyllabic, Germanic words in modern English. He who rules get to set the what language is spoken.

11 posted on 09/28/2007 7:56:54 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The only good Mullah is a dead Mullah. The only good Mosque is the one that used to be there.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

I have to say that language patterns, while useful and interesting to study, are in a certain sense subjective. And anyone can learn any language, regardless of their DNA. The blood evidence, uncovered by the scientific method, is irrefutable.


12 posted on 09/28/2007 7:57:00 AM PDT by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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To: blam

Well, Buaidh no bas, anyway!


13 posted on 09/28/2007 7:57:55 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (THE SECOND AMENDMENT, A MATTER OF FACT, NOT A MATTER OF OPINION)
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To: blam

Forgot to say: great post, blam.


14 posted on 09/28/2007 7:57:55 AM PDT by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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To: blam

Bump for a later read. Someday I hope to do the DNA te$ting...right now I can’t. My late father (1st generation Irish) always said we were ‘Black Irish’ (no...not the Spanish Aramada tale, just darker hair/skin than your idea of Irish). Thanks for the post.


15 posted on 09/28/2007 8:00:21 AM PDT by PennsylvaniaMom (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean THEY aren't out to get you...)
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To: 3AngelaD
"Oxford’s Bryan Sykes, who invented the genetic population testing method, has written some interesting books on this subject, too."

I recommend Syke's newest book too: Saxons, Vikings, and Celts: The Genetic Roots of Britain and Ireland . A very good book and easy to read. Oppenheimer's is the better of the two though.

16 posted on 09/28/2007 8:00:28 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam
I am yDNA haplogroup R1b as are 90% of the Irish.

Did you use a commercial genotyping service?
17 posted on 09/28/2007 8:00:51 AM PDT by ruination
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To: blam
And most of us are familiar with the idea that the English are descended from Anglo-Saxons, who invaded eastern England after the Romans left

I thought the Romans left about 430, and the Saxons invaded when the collpase of the Pax Romanae gave them the opportunity. The Angles were there already at the start of the Roman occupation. Did not a Roman say, upon seeing their complexion and hair color, "Not Angles, but Angels?"

18 posted on 09/28/2007 8:01:17 AM PDT by Gorzaloon (Food imported from China = "Cesspool + Flavor-Straw")
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
French is a Romance language, derived from Latin. Modern English is a blend of Anglo-Saxon and French and is still considered a Germanic language, not a Romance Language.

I can't say for sure, but I've heard that Winston Churchill's soundbite "We shall fight them on the beaches, we shall fight them in the fields, we shall fight them in the hills. We shall never surrender." Is composed 100% of words derived from Anglo-Saxon -- with one exception: surrender is derived from French.

19 posted on 09/28/2007 8:02:33 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agamemnon dead.)
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To: blam

Just finished that one a couple of months ago. All of his are excellent. For my birthday I am giving myself an analysis from his group at Oxford, figuring I can share it with my sister, at least! I will have to dip into Oppenheimer.


20 posted on 09/28/2007 8:02:48 AM PDT by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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