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To: NVDave

Hydrogen cumbustion (aka ICE), not Hydrogen fuel cells. More efficient, follows the popular “fuel up and drive” idea of the gas station. Already many working prototypes. Here is an article excerpt.

Hydrogen Cars:

Hydrogen cars come in two main varieties, fuel cell vehicles and internal combustion engines (ICE). Most hydrogen cars being developed today are fuel cell vehicles using proton exchange membrane (PEM) technology as these will be, by all accounts, the cars of the future.

A few of the manufacturers, however, are using hydrogen ICE technology, seeing this as an interim step between today’s gasoline or hybrid cars and tomorrow’s PEM cars.

In fact, the hydrogen race car, the BMW H2R is both the fastest hydrogen car to date and a hybrid car as well. The BMW H2R uses an ICE powered by either compressed hydrogen or gasoline.

The other hydrogen hybrid currently touring the concept market is the Mazda RX-8 with RENESIS Hydrogen Rotary Engine. The Mazda rotary engine lends itself well to hydrogen with less backfiring than traditionally converted ICE vehicles.

Here is a list of some of the hydrogen cars currently being shown off by manufacturers:

BMW H2R - has set nine international and FIA-ratified land-speed records for hydrogen cars and can use both hydrogen and gasoline with the flip of a switch.

Mazda RX-8 Renesis - rotary duel-fuel engine capable of using both hydrogen and gasoline.

General Motors Sequel - crossover H2 concept vehicle has a range of over 300 miles and will accelerate from 0 - 60 in 10 seconds.

Mercedes F600 Hygenius - H2 hydrogen crossover vehicle with emphasis on luxury for the whole family.

Mercedes F-Cell - Mercedes-Benz A-class vehicles are being used as company fleet vehicles by Deutsche Telekom and BEWAG/Vattenfall.

Ford Focus FCV - uses a Ballard 902 Fuel Cell and fleet evaluation vehicles have already been delivered to cities in the U. S., Canada and Germany.

Honda FCX - current concept car that Honda has announced will go into production in Japan in just 3 - 4 years.

Toyota Fine-S - built using some of the same technology from the Prius hybrid car.

Besides this list some of the other past hydrogen cars include GM HydroGen3, Hyundai Santa Fe FCEV, Reva Hydrogen, Toyota FCHV, Nissan Effis, Volkswagen Touran HiMotion, Toyota MTRC, Morgan LIFEcar, BOC Ech2o, Ford U Concept and H2 Hummer.

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25 posted on 09/28/2007 9:49:00 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black

DETROIT – With a cat-like predatory stance, forward-thinking freestyle door system and enough room for four, not two, adults to enjoy all its benefits, the Mazda RX-8 has set itself apart from the pack. But if the recently introduced RX-8 production sports car truly is unique thanks, in large part, to its rotary engine, the RX-8 Hydrogen Rotary Engine (RE) concept, showcased this year at the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS), takes “unique” to all new levels.

Featuring a fuel system that consists of a high-pressure hydrogen tank, the vehicle balances the needs of the driving enthusiast and the environmentalist with a blend of alternative power and the exhilarating driving experience for which Mazda is known.

As the auto industry turns its attention to hydrogen fuel as a gasoline alternative, the RX-8 Hydrogen RE offers a hydrogen-powered version of RENESIS—Mazda’s next generation rotary engine that was introduced last year in the all-new RX-8. By virtue of its smooth performance, compact size and impressive driving characteristics, RENESIS was named International Engine of the Year in June 2003.

The RENESIS Hydrogen RE allows the RX-8 concept to run on either hydrogen fuel or gasoline and capitalizes on all the advantages of the rotary to assure RX-8’s ease-of-operation and reliability.

The RENESIS Hydrogen RE incorporates an electronically controlled hydrogen injector system, with the hydrogen injected in a gaseous state. The system draws air from the side port during the intake cycle and uses dual hydrogen injectors in each of the engine’s twin rotor housings to directly inject hydrogen into the intake chambers.

Because it offers separate chambers for intake and combustion, the rotary engine is ideal for burning hydrogen without the backfiring that can occur in a traditional piston engine. The separate induction chamber also provides a safer temperature for fitting the dual hydrogen injectors with their rubber seals, which are susceptible to the high temperatures encountered in a conventional reciprocating piston engine.

Also helping to maximize the benefits of the rotary engine in hydrogen combustion mode, the RENESIS Hydrogen RE features adequate space for the installation of two injectors per intake chamber. Because hydrogen has an extremely low density, a much greater injection volume is required compared with gasoline, thus demanding the use of more than one injector. Typically, this can be difficult to achieve with a conventional reciprocating piston engine because of the structural constraints that prevent mounting injectors in the combustion chamber. However, with its twin hydrogen injectors, the RENESIS Hydrogen RE is both practical and able to deliver sufficient power.

In addition to the revolutionary hydrogen-powered RENESIS rotary engine, the Mazda RX-8 Hydrogen RE concept benefits from improved aerodynamics and optimized tires and weight-saving measures. A fast-fill tandem master cylinder reduces brake drag and friction hub carriers help cut power losses.


27 posted on 09/28/2007 9:54:32 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black

All very good, but it still doesn’t change the fact that in both fuel cells and hydrogen ICE’s, the result is H2O at the tailpipe, and given that water vapor is responsible for about 70% of all greenhouse effects, it will still come as a proctological inconvenience to the AGW hysterics.

The exact type of hydrogen combustion aside, there still remains the fact that hydrogen is not a viable fuel, because there exists no source of free H2 in nature. We have to manufacture H2 from something else, which (if we’re not using reformers and liberating H2 from CH4), require copious amounts of energy. Therefore, in the environmentalist nirvana, H2 becomes a lossy energy transfer mechanism, not a fuel.

H2 powered cars are the most recent incarnation of the same idea that spawned the battery-powered “zero emissions cars” of the 90’s: a hugely expensive and futile distraction.


34 posted on 09/28/2007 10:14:11 AM PDT by NVDave
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To: Jack Black

All very good, but it still doesn’t change the fact that in both fuel cells and hydrogen ICE’s, the result is H2O at the tailpipe, and given that water vapor is responsible for about 70% of all greenhouse effects, it will still come as a proctological inconvenience to the AGW hysterics.

The exact type of hydrogen combustion aside, there still remains the fact that hydrogen is not a viable fuel, because there exists no source of free H2 in nature. We have to manufacture H2 from something else, which (if we’re not using reformers and liberating H2 from CH4), require copious amounts of energy. Therefore, in the environmentalist nirvana, H2 becomes a lossy energy transfer mechanism, not a fuel.

H2 powered cars are the most recent incarnation of the same idea that spawned the battery-powered “zero emissions cars” of the 90’s: a hugely expensive and futile distraction.


35 posted on 09/28/2007 10:14:41 AM PDT by NVDave
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To: Jack Black

where can I get a can of compressed hydrogen for the trip to the lake???


57 posted on 09/28/2007 3:48:04 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (A few Rams must look after the sheep 'til the Good Shepherd returns...)
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