Christian leaders threaten to abandon Republicans

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | September 30, 2007

[Man50D]

WASHINGTON – Some of the top leaders in Christian pro-family activism – including James Dobson of Focus on the Family – met in Salt Lake City yesterday to plot a strategy if Rudy Giuliani or another supporter of legalized abortion is nominated by the Republican Party as its presidential candidate.

Not only was there a consensus among activists to withhold support for the Republican nominee, there was even discussion about supporting the entry of a new candidate to challenge the frontrunners.

It's no secret that Dobson, founder of one of the largest Christian ministries in the country, has no use for Giuliani.

In June, he said: "I cannot, and will not, vote for Rudy Giuliani in 2008. It is an irrevocable decision. If given a Hobson's – Dobson's? – choice between him and Sens. Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, I will either cast my ballot for an also-ran – or if worse comes to worst – not vote in a presidential election for the first time in my adult life. My conscience and my moral convictions will allow me to do nothing else."

Dobson reportedly drove from his headquarters Colorado Springs to the private meeting, held between sessions of the Council for National Policy in Salt Lake City this weekend, just to weigh in with other leaders of family groups, including the Family Research Council, Bott Broadcasting, Capitol Resource Institute, Salem Communications, Eagle Forum and Concerned Women for America

[Man50D]

This is certainly not a surprise considering the GOP has been incrementally and gradually abandoning Conservative core principles for more socialistic values in the name of appeasement and compromise with the Socialist Democrats. The hypocrisy is Democrats never had sacrificed or will sacrifice their values. The end result is the GOP has increasingly aligned itself with tthe Socialist Democrats. We have essentially only a one party system in this country. Conservatives will only have their core values represented by leaving the GOP and uniting with the large number of unaffiliated Conservatives.

[Glenn]

It is important that Dobson understand that electing Clinton by throwing away Republican votes will bring his heart misery he has yet to imagine.

[Northern Yankee]

Bingo!

[nathanbedford]

I think it is also important to understand that abortion is a transcendent issue. We are not talking tax cuts or healthcare but we speak of killing babies.

It is perfectly understandable for Dobson to take this position on a matter of such fundamental principle. Dobson is speaking in the grand Protestant tradition, " here I stand, I can do no other."

[writmeister]

Dr. Dobson and his associates should announce who they would support for President and why they support them. That would be more helpful than passively leaking that they cannot support a certain candidate without saying why.

[roamer_1]

we speak of killing babies.

I can think of no better way to ensure the blessings of liberty to our posterity than to stop killing them before they are even born.

Choice, indeed.

[writmeister]

I understand why core Conservatives reject Giuliani. It is hard to think of any issue which he shares with the party base (other than national security). The opposition of Dr. Dobson and his associates to the other candidates needs to be spelled out since the reasons are not as obvious.

[Man50D]

It is important that Dobson understand that electing Clinton by throwing away Republican votes will bring his heart misery he has yet to imagine.

It is important for GOP leadership to realize they it's time for them to appease Conservatives instead of the Socialist Democrats by restoring core Conservative values in the party if they expect Conservatives to support them. Electing someone like Guiliani is tantamount to voting for socialist Clinton. Conservatives will be throwing their votes away if they vote for Guiliani.

[Ben Ficklin]

What's new?

Karl Rove: Stayaway Christians Almost Cost Bush Election

[Glenn]

Electing someone like Guiliani is tantamount to voting for socialist Clinton.

Do you really believe that? If so, you don't understand the seriousness of the situation.

There will be no groundswell for a third party that can get organized, funded, populated and vote with unity by November 2008. Reality is reality.

[lonestar]

I make my own decisions when voting.

[HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath]

Only a massive catastrophe, or a massive revival, will fundamentally change the course of our government. I strongly believe we will see both.

[Man50D]

Dr. Dobson and his associates should announce who they would support for President and why they support them.

On the contrary. People in the GOP should demand why their leadership is increasingly supporting socialist values and demand they restore Conservative values instead of blindly following them like lemmings to the sea.

[SengirV]

Enjoy the Democrtic Party instead, they appear to be MUCH closer to the Christian Ideal.

< / sacracm >

[seemoAR]

Amen.

[Man50D]

Do you really believe that? If so, you don't understand the seriousness of the situation.

Do you really believe I would make such statements if I didn't mean it? I understand the Republican party is decreasingly representing Conservatives. The list below show the similarites between Socialist Hitlery and Socialist Rudy.

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

[Man50D]

Enjoy the Democrtic Party instead, they appear to be MUCH closer to the Christian Ideal.

That doesn't say much for the GOP.

[Coldwater Creek]

It is never wrong to act on your convictions, no matter the outcome. Dobson is right on this one.

His view is to do what is right and let God sort out the mess. Mine as well

Anyone but the Hildabeast is not the answer to our nation’s problems.

CC

[Glenn]

between Socialist Hitlery and Socialist Rudy

There is a difference. If Rudy gets the nomination (big 'if' at this point) you can trust that he will defend the country. The same cannot be said about Hillary.

[Coldwater Creek]

They can’t do that and still maintain tax free, unlike their Dem counterparts.

[Bulwinkle]

To follow what Gary Bauer said recently,

The true nightmare is Hillary taking the oath of office...
followed Hillary’s two to three Supreme Court picks...
followed by another 100+ federal judge picks by Hillary that have been stuck in the Senate

[johnny7]

Dobson’s disgust... if acted upon... will turn into LIVING HELL.

[Man50D]

There will be no groundswell for a third party that can get organized, funded, populated and vote with unity by November 2008. Reality is reality.

The reality is there has been and is a groundswell of support in the GOP to continually appease the socialist Demorats, leaving the GOP without any principles.

[roamer_1]

you can trust that he will defend the country.

I can do no such thing.

[Jim Noble]

This is certainly not a surprise considering the GOP has been incrementally and gradually abandoning Conservative core principles for more socialistic values in the name of appeasement and compromise with the Socialist Democrats.

What does any of that have to do with Christianity?

[roamer_1]

Dobson’s disgust... if acted upon... will turn into LIVING HELL.

Dobson is not alone... it is ever so close.

I will wait out the primary season, but I am already fairly certain to withdraw from the party. It represents very little of what is important to me.

[calex59]

Dr. Dobson and his associates should announce who they would support for President and why they support them. That would be more helpful than passively leaking that they cannot support a certain candidate without saying why.

Excuse me but their "why" was announced loud and clear, killing babies is something they will not stand for in a presidential candidate, so therefore they will not vote for a pro-abortion candidate, such as Rudy for example.

[Man50D]

If Rudy gets the nomination (big 'if' at this point) you can trust that he will defend the country.

Oh really? The WOT is not fought only in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is a global problem, including on our border with Mexico. It is a fact terrorists have entered this country though the Mexican border posing as illegal aliens and yet Guiliani supports granting amnesty to illegals. Two weeks ago he went as far as to say Illegal immigration is not a crime! His inconsistent stance on WOT is dangerous at best. God help us all if you truly believe he is any different than Hitlery and becomes the Republican nominee.

[Man50D]

What does any of that have to do with Christianity?

You don't see a connection between Christianity and Conservatism?

[Glenn]

God help us all if you truly believe he is any different than Hitlery and becomes the Republican nominee.

What I believe isn't all that powerful, is it?

Look, Dobson is trying to sway the primary vote with this. I recognize that and I hope it works. But the fact is, if it comes down to a vote for Hillary or Rudy, most of us will vote for Rudy.

[randita]

Dobson, like all of us, can cast his vote based on what principles are most important to him.

I, too, am pro-life but I will vote for Giuliani over Clinton any day because I think the defining issue of our time is the WOT.

When it’s the choice two not so good candidates, I will always vote for the lesser of two evils. I’m not going to throw my vote away or stay home and let the worst candidate triumph. That’s like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[Man50D]

To follow what Gary Bauer said recently,

The true nightmare is Hillary taking the oath of office...

The true nightmare is a Socialist taking office regardless if it is Hitlery or Rudy.

[armymarinedad]

you can trust that he will defend the country

No, I can trust he will defend Rudy's best interests. I don't think he gives a rip about the Constitution. I am not sure there is a statesman in the bunch.

[roamer_1]

You don't see a connection between Christianity and Conservatism?

Too many don't see the connection- That is the root of the problem.

[Just mythoughts]

It is important that Dobson understand that electing Clinton by throwing away Republican votes will bring his heart misery he has yet to imagine.

The same could be said of the moderate, centrist, but supposed mainstream elite that claim to be fiscal conservatives but are socially liberal, they hold the same responsibility.

Going Clinton lite under the guise of a moderate supposed mainstream candidate with a liberal congress will have the same results of a Clinton figure head. Just look at what a 'big tent' republican congress that got replaced by a pretend to be more conservative but in fact liberal congress has done to President Bush.

Oh and I do not get my 'doctrine' from Dobson or any of these other 'religious' figureheads. Deuteronomy 27:16-26 lays out what the cursings of a people will be upon a nation if thy shalt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 28: tells exactly what the voice of the LORD thy God requires to be a blessed nation.

Irony how much these words still apply to US to this day, so which candidate defines they have a clue as to where our BLESSINGS actually come from???

[John Leland 1789]

“It is important that Dobson understand that electing Clinton by throwing away Republican votes will bring his heart misery he has yet to imagine.”

---

In the social and moral health of the nation, there could be no short or long term practical difference between a Clinton and and a Giulliani administration.

[Pinkbell]

I was at a Republican group meeting the other night, and minority leader Boehner was there to speak. My cousin asked him about getting back to the social conservative roots. He said they have to get moderates and independents to vote, and the social conservatives will vote for the GOP because usually their candidates are socially conservative. My cousin pointed out that’s not happening as much, and he still said they have to pull the moderate and independent to vote. My cousin remarked that the social conservatives are the strong base that faithfully gets out there and works for the candidate, and a lot of them are getting frustrated about the drift from social conservative values. She said one of the candidates they won’t get behind is Guiliani. He seemed to disagree, and he proceeded to talk about how social conservatives love Guiliani (not this one) who he said will move further to the right. Basically, it didn’t feel like she got anywhere. He seemed to think social conservatives will continue to stay loyal as they appeal to the moderates and independents to pull them under the tent, but my cousin and I both disagree. There is only so much social conservatives will take before they split off and form a new conservative party or join a more conservative party like the Constitution Party.

[Melas]

It is important for GOP leadership to realize they it's time for them to appease Conservatives instead of the Socialist Democrats by restoring core Conservative values in the party if they expect Conservatives to support them. Electing someone like Guiliani is tantamount to voting for socialist Clinton.

The problem with this and all like statements is that it leads one to believe that the GOP leadership selects the candidate. It doesn't. The candidate is chosen by Republican voters at the polls. I have no idea who's going to actually be the guy, but if it is Guiliani it will be because Republican voters chose him in a primary election, not because some shadowy leadership gave him the nod.

[central_va]

PRIMARIES: I am an arch conservative voter

GENERAL: I am a pragmatic republican voter

No other way....

[WildcatClan]

You make a very good point. I am not sure if that can be done because that may be in conflict with his tax-free status or something. I am not sure of his particular groups status so I am not sure, just a thought.

[Jim Noble]

You don't see a connection between Christianity and Conservatism?

Nope.

[Man50D]

too, am pro-life but I will vote for Giuliani over Clinton any day because I think the defining issue of our time is the WOT

That is a poort definition to base your support for Rudy. WOT is not just a problem in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is a gobla problem, including our southern border with Mexico. It is a fact terrorists have entered this country posing as illegal immigrants and yet Rudy supports amnesty for illegals! He even went as far to recently claim Illegal immigration is not a crime! It's self defeating purpose to fight terrorists at the front door while allowing them through the back door. There couldn't be a more dangerous policy.

When it’s the choice two not so good candidates, I will always vote for the lesser of two evils.

It is that type of appeasement, compromising thinking that has devolved the GOP into a more socialist party.

[mware]

Talk about buying a pig in a poke.

Wish I could look in a crystal ball and see what kind of judges Rudy would appoint.

I know what kind Hillary would appoint.Matter of fact it is almost a given that she would pull a Bill Clinton and fire the judges like he did.

[AmericanInTokyo]

I can hear it NOW, right here on FR, next year. (If one of these pro-abortionists wins the GOP nomination in cahoots with the Country Club Establishment of the RNC).

"But...But....But.....YOU'LL PUT HILLARY IN THE WHITE HOUSE!", they will scream to (try to) convince us to vote for one pro-abortionist over another, as if that is any kind of relief.

This vote here of AiT's, delivered by absentee ballot if I am still over here at that time, will definitely go to a Third Party Conservative or Indpendent if RUDY, McCAIN or any of his ilk get the GOP nomination somehow. They can take that to the bank over at the RNC. There are millions of us Christians just like that.

[John Leland 1789]

“Dr. Dobson and his associates should announce who they would support for President and why they support them.”

---

Perhaps the man of their choosing is not yet in the running. And when their choice is on the scene, the remainder of the Republican Party may turn around and ask, “Why did we not tap men like this before (?) — why did we waste our time, energies and emotions on the current field?”

I don’t know that that will happen, but it certainly could. And that answers to the statement in the article that the Democratic Party will not compromise their principles (if you can call them principles!), but have forced the Republican Party to compromise THEIR principles. The Republican Party is the one being drug under in the social and moral arena.

[Man50D]

The same could be said of the moderate, centrist, but supposed mainstream elite that claim to be fiscal conservatives but are socially liberal, they hold the same responsibility.

Going Clinton lite under the guise of a moderate supposed mainstream candidate with a liberal congress will have the same results of a Clinton figure head. Just look at what a 'big tent' republican congress that got replaced by a pretend to be more conservative but in fact liberal congress has done to President Bush.

I couldn't agree more! This wishy washy, sacrificing of principles will only result in a person getting the type of candidate they don't want.

[Jim Noble]

My cousin remarked that the social conservatives are the strong base that faithfully gets out there and works for the candidate, and a lot of them are getting frustrated about the drift from social conservative values. She said one of the candidates they won’t get behind is Guiliani. He seemed to disagree, and he proceeded to talk about how social conservatives love Guiliani (not this one) who he said will move further to the right. Basically, it didn’t feel like she got anywhere.

Your cousin isn't wrong, exactly, but the social conservatives don't understand that they cannot elect (look, they can't even nominate a Republican candidate, for heaven's sake) on their own.

What they will do to go into coalition with non-socon Republicans is unclear, has always been unclear, and represents the downfall of Roveism.

[John Leland 1789]

“Enjoy the Democrtic Party instead, they appear to be MUCH closer to the Christian Ideal.”

---

As far as closeness to the Christian ideal, there is virtually NO difference anymore between the two major parties, and the RNC leadership doesn’t really care anymore.

[RushLake]

While I hate Guilani's positions on abortion and firearms rights, he has been consistent on the most important issue of our time which is winning the war against islamic terrorism. He also seems not to be afraid to engage her highness in battle. Like many others, I would prefer someone else with the right conservative credentials, but we will never achieve our goals if Hillary Clinton becomes president with a democrat house and senate.

Mr. Dobson should look around his fundamentalist congregations very closely and realize that many of those alleged fundamentalists are consistent democrat voters and always have been. I do not understand how one can be a fundamentalist evangelical and support the party that renders more unto Caesar than that which is Caesar's, the party of baby killing, the party of special rights for homosexuals, the party that hates America. Dobson has some work to do in his own house before he condemns the work that we might do not in his house.

[Just mythoughts]

There is nothing conservative about a social liberal. It is a deception to claim one is fiscally conservative but socially liberal. To play means someone pays and that is what social liberalism preaches: freedom to play and then when the destruction of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness results, a government FUNDED program of non-judgmental tax burden must be shared by ALL.

It will not matter which party the candidate claims to be representing....