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The unspeakable American culture (The journalistic elite vs. patriotism)
The Los Angeles Times ^ | October 2, 2007 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 10/03/2007 1:02:19 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

In a recent speech at the National Press Club, Katie Couric expressed somber disapproval of the jingoistic excesses after 9/11. Among the things that vexed her: "The whole culture of wearing flags on our lapel and saying 'we' when referring to the United States." From what I can tell, nobody among the journalistic swells bothered to ask, "Who isn't 'we,' Kemo Sabe?"

I don't want to revisit those supposedly Orwellian flag pins, which sat so heavily on so many journalistic lapels. But it's worth recalling that during World War II, civilian correspondent Walter Cronkite -- whose anchor job Couric now holds -- gladly wore a uniform, not just a pin, and subjected himself to military censors. He also used, I'm sure, the word "we" when referring to the United States.

To be clear, I have no interest in "questioning" Couric's patriotism. Rather, I'm interested in questioning her definition of it.

I've come around to the view that the culture war can best be understood as a conflict between two different kinds of patriotism. On the one hand, there are people who believe being an American is all about dissent and change, that the American idea is inseparable from "progress." America is certainly an idea, but it is not merely an idea. It is also a nation with a culture as real as France's or Mexico's. That's where the other patriots come in; they think patriotism is about preserving Americanness.

Yet the strangest and most ironic aspect of our national culture is that we have an aversion to talking about a national culture.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 911; antiamerican; cbs; democratparty; democrats; dinosaurmedia; iraq; journalism; katiecouric; mainstreammedia; marksteyn; media; msm; oldmedia; seebs; wot
Good article.
1 posted on 10/03/2007 1:02:22 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
America's Muslim community has remained overwhelmingly peaceful. Why?

Because they are waiting for Obama to get elected.

2 posted on 10/03/2007 1:12:48 AM PDT by donna (Obama is a Moslem.)
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To: donna

Or they fear the smackdown that result if they weren’t peaceful.


3 posted on 10/03/2007 1:14:29 AM PDT by rdl6989
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To: rdl6989; 2ndDivisionVet
The US, as opposed to much of Europe, has a tradition of personal firearm ownership. If it is perceived, by the majority of the citizens, that a group of people are an active threat to the community, the citizens will react to that group with deadly force. I think that the instigators in the Muslim community realize this fact so they have not tried to incite mob violence within the recently immigrated Muslims against the US.
4 posted on 10/03/2007 1:28:07 AM PDT by Talking_Mouse (O Lord, destroy Islam by converting the Muslims to Christianity.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The only value in the continuing existence of Katie Couric is that she leads the decline of CBS News.


5 posted on 10/03/2007 1:32:54 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: donna

Goldberg is RIGHT ON with this one!!


6 posted on 10/03/2007 2:34:25 AM PDT by Mobile Vulgus
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Egptians, Congolese, Paraguayans and Cambodians are encouraged to be greatly proud of their nations and cultures, but it is an offense against decency for those of western cultural heritage (by any objective standard a far more productive one), especially Americans, to take pride in their’s.

This is not a rational position.


7 posted on 10/03/2007 2:40:19 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
To be clear, I have no interest in "questioning" Couric's patriotism. Rather, I'm interested in questioning her definition of it.

Couric's fealty is that of a "citizen of the earth." She serves herself alone; anyone in the way gets to taste those stiletto heels (delivered with a perky smile).

8 posted on 10/03/2007 4:09:00 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Duncan Hunter for President)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Her mind is as disfigured as her face.


9 posted on 10/03/2007 4:09:09 AM PDT by isrul (Lamentations 5:2)
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To: donna
You are going to want to read this -

America's Leftists: "Persona Non Grata"

10 posted on 10/03/2007 4:14:03 AM PDT by expatguy (Support Conservative Blogging - "An American Expat in Southeast Asia")
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To: donna
Make sure and read all the links - you are going to be surprised how all of this self-hatred is affecting us overseas.

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

11 posted on 10/03/2007 4:15:32 AM PDT by expatguy (Support Conservative Blogging - "An American Expat in Southeast Asia")
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To: Talking_Mouse

“We cannot invade the United States. There will be a rifle behind every blade of grass” - Adm. Yamamoto, 1942

Somebody once posted a chart on FR showing percentages of muzzies in society (10, 20, 30, 40%) corresponding with the increasing levels of trouble they cause as they become more numerous.

I guess we infidels in America are at the less than 10% muzzie level. I live across the street from a mosque and they are just as quiet as churchmice (heh, heh). They even quit doing their calls to prayer.

Must be because this is South Carolina.

Allahu fubar, y’all.

;^)


12 posted on 10/03/2007 4:22:57 AM PDT by elcid1970
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To: expatguy

For some reason your link failed but I got it here:

America’s Leftists: “Persona Non Grata”
http://laotze.blogspot.com/

Also, I only got Ramsey Clark’s name because the list has been removed (gee, I wonder why, LOL).

This quote is how I feel sometimes, too:

The blacklist however is only just the tip of the iceberg. Other countries who have a stake in the “war on terrorism” have found themselves bewildered by the tone of the ongoing “political debate” in the United States.


13 posted on 10/03/2007 9:21:57 AM PDT by donna (The United States Constitution and the Koran are mutually exclusive.)
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To: donna; Califreak; Diddle E. Squat; Flyer; Xenalyte; Eaker; humblegunner; PetroniDE; Humidston; ...
I have a copy of the list. I'll see what I can do to upload it somewhere - not sure where atm.

In any event it's immaterial really with what I have to say.

Donna, rather than writing out a big opus I think I will just bid my farewells here - this thread seems fitting enough to be honest with you - I've pinged a few people but since you are the last FReeper I'm writing to I hope that you will be so kind as to say good bye to the others for me.

I joined FR over 6 years ago thinking I could make a change - I thought I could speak out and possibly forewarn my fellow countrymen about the dangers posed by Islamic totalitarianism. I thought with 20 years under my belt in a Muslim country that I knew what the hell I was talking about - but in the end I've failed. Now days I feel like I'm simply pissing in the wind. I'm tired, tired of shouldering some of the risks that I do at times for nothing more than to inform. And like I said - I don't really feel that I'm making a difference.

My biggest regret though is that in all those years I have never met a fellow FReeper.

I'm not sure what I'll do with the blog - it is a liability in many ways and Im not sure I can justify doing what I do anymore. I was "talked" to about it once over here - I actually started it so I would not have to keep writing the same things in multiple threads here - it was a service but it's been all risk without reward - if I was Stateside it might be different - I might be back to lurk, I'm not sure but for the moment I think I really have done all I could.

I wish you all the best. Take care FRiends.

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

14 posted on 10/03/2007 9:47:46 AM PDT by expatguy (Support Conservative Blogging - "An American Expat in Southeast Asia")
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To: expatguy
You are one of the few on FR that I really respect. It is distressing to see that you are leaving.

I truly hope you will have a change of heart.


- Kevin
15 posted on 10/03/2007 9:53:09 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Ron Paul put the cuckoo in my Cocoa Puffs)
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To: donna
they are waiting for Obama to get elected.

I'll take an Irishman with a tan over an emerging dictator any day. Anybody but Hillary!

16 posted on 10/03/2007 9:59:45 AM PDT by Reeses (Leftism is powered by the evil force of envy.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
...for the only "we" that counts is that of "we are the world."

That's it in a nutshell. Liberals have become relentlessly and unquestioningly globalist in their political alignments under the presumption that being broadminded enough to question one's own country's policies inoculates them from an equally unthinking allegiance to an internationalism that is, frankly, worse.

There is, too, a distinctly elitist tendency at work here. "We" in that context means "we opinion-makers" and "they" is the rest of us. The furor drummed up over the reporter killed in the middle of the battle for Baghdad at his hotel window is a case in point. Here were soldiers who were getting shot at excoriated for inadvertently killing one of the enlightened world's chosen darlings and most of the U.S. media played right along. Makes you wonder.

17 posted on 10/03/2007 10:20:58 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: expatguy

I saw how the media self hatred was affecting us during a trip to New Zealand in 2001. I watched CNN International for the first time and it made me sick. I also talked to people and I was shocked at the things they said about us.

please don’t go........


18 posted on 10/03/2007 12:36:43 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: expatguy

I always check out your posts and learn something from them and your site. I can certainly understand your discouragement at this time. We seem to be living in a time bubble and I suspect there are a lot of smart people like you just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

In fact, I stopped posting here for about 5-years because no one wanted to hear my opinion and in fact wished to get me banned.

I’ve been wondering if the outlet of talk radio has diverted our normal common sense response to terrorism because we just let off steam and feel better - no action taken.

Perhaps the people who can see what is coming due to experience and intelligence must always suffer this problem - no one wants to hear it until a building falls on them!

Bide your time for awhile (and keep safe) - you’ll have an opportunity to share your knowledge soon enough. Especially if Hillary is elected.

In the mean time, ping me to anything you find interesting and I’ll give you some feedback. I’m full of opinions, LOL.


19 posted on 10/03/2007 12:47:06 PM PDT by donna (The United States Constitution and the Koran are mutually exclusive.)
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To: expatguy

Don’t go and don’t give up! You’re right on the money, and people need to hear what you’re saying!

I’ve been real busy lately. Your ping was the only one I read tonight, because you are always right about how we’re ruining ourselves with the PC BS, and inviting the hostile takeover that the fuzzy mundies so desire.

I’m terribly curious as to who’s on that list....

At any rate, if you do fade into the background, which I could understand your doing for security reasons, take care and stay safe.


20 posted on 10/03/2007 10:03:39 PM PDT by Califreak (Go Hunter!)
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