Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

North and South secessionists sit down to talk
ap wire ^ | Oct. 3, 2007 | ap

Posted on 10/03/2007 8:22:09 AM PDT by varina davis

By BILL POOVEY, Associated Press Writer Wed Oct 3, 3:15 AM ET

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. - In an unlikely marriage of desire to secede from the United States, two advocacy groups from opposite political traditions — New England and the South — are sitting down to talk.

ADVERTISEMENT

Tired of foreign wars and what they consider right-wing courts, the Middlebury Institute wants liberal states like Vermont to be able to secede peacefully.

That sounds just fine to the League of the South, a conservative group that refuses to give up on Southern independence.

"We believe that an independent South, or Hawaii, Alaska, or Vermont would be better able to serve the interest of everybody, regardless of race or ethnicity," said Michael Hill of Killen, Ala., president of the League of the South.

Separated by hundreds of miles and divergent political philosophies, the Middlebury Institute and the League of the South are hosting a two-day Secessionist Convention starting Wednesday in Chattanooga.

They expect to attract supporters from California, Alaska and Hawaii, inviting anyone who wants to dissolve the Union so states can save themselves from an overbearing federal government.

If allowed to go their own way, New Englanders "probably would allow abortion and have gun control," Hill said, while Southerners "would probably crack down on illegal immigration harder than it is being now."

The U.S. Constitution does not explicitly prohibit secession, but few people think it is politically viable.

Vermont, one of the nation's most liberal states, has become a hotbed for liberal secessionists, a fringe movement that gained new traction because of the Iraq war, rising oil prices and the formation of several pro-secession groups.

Thomas Naylor, the founder of one of those groups, the Second Vermont Republic, said the friendly relationship with the League of the South doesn't mean everyone shares all the same beliefs.

But Naylor, a retired Duke University professor, said the League of the South shares his group's opposition to the federal government and the need to pursue secession.

"It doesn't matter if our next president is Condoleeza (Rice) or Hillary (Clinton), it is going to be grim," said Naylor, adding that there are secessionist movements in more than 25 states, including Hawaii, Alaska, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Texas.

The Middlebury Institute, based in Cold Spring, N.Y., was started in 2005. Its followers, disillusioned by the Iraq war and federal imperialism, share the idea of states becoming independent republics. They contend their movement is growing.

The first North American Separatist Convention was held last fall in Vermont, which, unlike most Southern states, supports civil unions. Voters there elected a socialist to the U.S. Senate.

Middlebury director Kirpatrick Sale said Hill offered to sponsor the second secessionist convention, but the co-sponsor arrangement was intended to show that "the folks up north regard you as legitimate colleagues."

"It bothers me that people have wrongly declared them to be racists," Sale said.

The League of the South says it is not racist, but proudly displays a Confederate Battle Flag on its banner.

Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, which monitors hate groups, said the League of the South "has been on our list close to a decade."

"What is remarkable and really astounding about this situation is we see people and institutions who are supposedly on the progressive left rubbing shoulders with bona fide white supremacists," Potok said.

Sale said the League of the South "has not done or said anything racist in its 14 years of existence," and that the Southern Poverty Law Center is not credible.

"They call everybody racists," Sale said. "There are, no doubt, racists in the League of the South, and there are, no doubt, racists everywhere."

Harry Watson, director of the Center For the Study of the American South and a history professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, said it was a surprise to see The Middlebury Institute conferring with the League of the South, "an organization that's associated with a cause that many of us associate with the preservation of slavery."

He said the unlikely partnering "represents the far left and far right of American politics coming together."

___

On the Net:

Middlebury Institute: http://middleburyinstitute.org/

League of the South: http://www.leagueofthesouth.net

Second Vermont Republic: http://www.vermontrepublic.org/


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: meeting; secession; talk; tennessee

1 posted on 10/03/2007 8:22:14 AM PDT by varina davis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: varina davis

Well, next step is for these secessionists to as the UN to recognize their independence. Its the same stupidity the US forced in the Balkans. What goes around comes around.


2 posted on 10/03/2007 8:29:07 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: varina davis

Just think...a US Senate without Sanders and Leahy!!! I believe we still have a flag pattern with 49 states.


3 posted on 10/03/2007 8:39:23 AM PDT by A_Tradition_Continues (THE NEXT GENERATION CONSERVATIVE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: varina davis
Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, which monitors hate groups...

The attorney general needs to shut the SPLC down. They are just a gang of extortionists.

4 posted on 10/03/2007 8:44:31 AM PDT by antinomian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: varina davis
...while Southerners "would probably crack down on illegal immigration harder than it is being now."

I find some humor in the statement. These poor folks don't realize that post secession they too would become subject to harsher immigration laws.

5 posted on 10/03/2007 8:44:36 AM PDT by A_Tradition_Continues (THE NEXT GENERATION CONSERVATIVE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: varina davis
If they seceed I say we send in the Army. We burn their houses. We burn their crops. We burn their cities.

Then we place them under a military governor. I think that General Karpinski would be a good choice.

Then in a few years we can consider letting them have self-determination back.

After all, fair's fair.

6 posted on 10/03/2007 8:51:51 AM PDT by Knitebane (Happily Microsoft free since 1999.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ma bell; Diocletian; kosta50; Bokababe; kronos77; DTA; F-117A; Balkans

This movement has not teeth but interesting none the less.


7 posted on 10/03/2007 8:54:36 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Knitebane

The Serbs were bombed to hell for attempting to stop a secession, don’t let the UN hear you speak like that.


8 posted on 10/03/2007 8:57:49 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: varina davis

Is this the Naylor who was on Laura Ingraham with Heather MacDonald this morning?


9 posted on 10/03/2007 9:01:15 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Knitebane

Don’t have to. With all the federal aid cut off they will starve. Do not trade with them.


10 posted on 10/03/2007 9:07:32 AM PDT by 70th Division (If we loose the Republic we have lost it all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: montyspython
*Related: It has been twelve years since the Republic Of Texas movement started and ended shortly there after. Many went to prison and a few were killed off.

http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=95

Some of the guys are still around and laying low in the East Texas woods.

11 posted on 10/03/2007 9:15:08 AM PDT by Deaf Smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: varina davis
I don’t know why anyone should be surprised at this. During the decade before the Civil War, radical abolitionists despaired at the prospect of ending slavery in the US. They realized, as did anyone with a political sense, that the prospect for ending slavery peacefully and within the Constitution was remote. Consequently, they began to press for a break-up of the Union. One went so far as to burn a copy of the US Constitution. They demanded that the stars representing slave state be removed from the flag. Only the foolishness of Southern leaders in seceding from the Union prevented the radical abolitionists from pressing their demands on the Congress.
12 posted on 10/03/2007 9:16:24 AM PDT by quadrant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: varina davis
I don’t know why anyone should be surprised at this. During the decade before the Civil War, radical abolitionists despaired at the prospect of ending slavery in the US. They realized, as did anyone with a political sense, that the prospect for ending slavery peacefully and within the Constitution was remote. Consequently, they began to press for a break-up of the Union. One went so far as to burn a copy of the US Constitution. They demanded that the stars representing slave states be removed from the flag. Only the foolishness of Southern leaders in seceding from the Union prevented the radical abolitionists from pressing their demands on the Congress.
13 posted on 10/03/2007 9:16:46 AM PDT by quadrant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Deaf Smith

Well, I would like to see the Federal response to such a declaration.


14 posted on 10/03/2007 9:25:13 AM PDT by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: varina davis

Hurrah for the Bonnie Blue Flag that bears a single star.

15 posted on 10/03/2007 9:59:27 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: varina davis

Those who don’t learn history are doomed to repeat it...

Hey guys—ever heard of this thing called the Civil War? Thirteen states tried to leave the union and it didn’t work.

Though I can’t say I’d be sad to see Vermont go...


16 posted on 10/03/2007 10:13:46 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (Know thy enemy. Learn Farsi.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
That sounds just fine to the League of the South, a conservative group that refuses to give up on Southern independence.

These are not real conservatives. REAL conservatives are patriotic and love the ENTIRE country and will not pull away from it to serve their own interests.

When I say "love the entire country" I don't mean they love the liberal BS present in many states, but those states are part of the union and aren't going anywhere. We hate the ideologies in some states, but we don't want to break up the union. America is America, and true conservatives try to fix liberal screw-ups and make the US a better nation rather than leave and start their own country.
17 posted on 10/03/2007 10:20:04 AM PDT by G8 Diplomat (Know thy enemy. Learn Farsi.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: varina davis
"The U.S. Constitution does not explicitly prohibit secession, but few people think it is politically militarily viable."

Fixed it.

18 posted on 10/03/2007 10:38:46 AM PDT by Dr._Joseph_Warren
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: varina davis

You know, I’d support secession if we could gather them all up in one state (how about Maine?) and summarily eject them from the union. Sort of like a congregation seceding from the Episcopal church. Go ahead, but the property belongs to the denomination, not the congregation. So folks, if you don’t want to be Americans, we’ll be happy to buy you tickets to anywhere else.


19 posted on 10/03/2007 10:39:54 AM PDT by Doug Loss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: G8 Diplomat

“Hey guys—ever heard of this thing called the Civil War? Thirteen states tried to leave the union and it didn’t work”

hmmm - but these guys don’t approve of war, so I wonder what their game plan is.


20 posted on 10/03/2007 10:49:55 AM PDT by HollyB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Deaf Smith

“Republic Of Texas”

Are they the same group that have the ROT bike rally in Austin every year?


21 posted on 10/03/2007 11:37:06 AM PDT by wolfcreek (The Status Quo Sucks!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: wolfcreek
The radicals are dead or in prison.

Anything now (ROT) would be respectful for our state.

22 posted on 10/03/2007 12:40:22 PM PDT by Deaf Smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: G8 Diplomat
"Though I can’t say I’d be sad to see Vermont go..."

Or Massachusetts.

23 posted on 10/03/2007 1:05:04 PM PDT by jackibutterfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur

Now, would be a good time for one of those lengthy posts of yours about Texas v. White. :>)


24 posted on 10/03/2007 1:10:36 PM PDT by carton253 (And if that time does come, then draw your swords and throw away the scabbards.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: carton253
Now, would be a good time for one of those lengthy posts of yours about Texas v. White. :>)

That would all depend on how they planned to go about it, wouldn't it?

25 posted on 10/03/2007 1:13:23 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: varina davis

“can save themselves from an overbearing federal government. “

I want to do this also, but as part of a 50 state United States of America.
People need to get involved and get a return to limited govt


26 posted on 10/03/2007 1:16:58 PM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Westerners continue to explore the expanse of space...meanwhile, Muslims continue to sit in the dirt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur

To you, it does. To others, not so much. You should not let such details stop you. This is a tailor-made opportunity for you to share your wisdom about the legality of sucession with a wider audience. The Civil War threads are usually just the same small bunch of Freepers having the same argument over and over again. (The last seven years according to my calculations) LOL!


27 posted on 10/03/2007 1:19:41 PM PDT by carton253 (And if that time does come, then draw your swords and throw away the scabbards.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: HollyB

Yeah that thought crossed my mind too


28 posted on 10/03/2007 1:32:55 PM PDT by G8 Diplomat (Know thy enemy. Learn Farsi.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: G8 Diplomat

absorb Vermont into NY State...whats a few more liberals on the side of Spitzer matter anyways?


29 posted on 10/03/2007 1:56:49 PM PDT by ma bell (bollocks... its just bollocks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: varina davis

The major question is, whether the People’s Republic of Massachusetts and Hillary’s New York will allow overflights for attacking the Vermin of Vermont...


30 posted on 10/03/2007 3:47:09 PM PDT by FDNYRHEROES (Always bring a liberal to a gunfight)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 70th Division
"...Don’t have to. With all the federal aid cut off they will starve. Do not trade with them...."

Actually, the demographic shift that would surely occur would put us pretty good stead. And...who do you think produces most of the oil in the USA? (Hint: It ain't Vermont)

Seriously, someone tell these loons we tried that once and it didn't work out so well.
31 posted on 10/03/2007 4:01:45 PM PDT by Islander7 ("Show me an honest politician and I will show you a case of mistaken identity.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: varina davis

bump


32 posted on 10/04/2007 2:23:49 AM PDT by AnimalLover ( ((Are there special rules and regulations for the big guys?)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson