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The Values Test [Dobson Will Back Third-Party if Giuliani is Nominated]
The New York Times ^ | October 4, 2007 | JAMES C. DOBSON

Posted on 10/04/2007 10:19:26 PM PDT by Soft Bigotry

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To: SoConPubbie
We are not just worried about this election, but the following elections that will not be won by Republicans if they nominate Rudy because they will have lost the trust and respect of their most committed members.

It will still be the Republican party but it will be replete with socialists and devoid of Conservatism. The GOP might as well merge with e socialist Democrats if Giuliani is nominated.
101 posted on 10/05/2007 12:52:38 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68

Then I take it FR is in for an even greater split than has already occurred.
It’s gonna get ugly in here.


102 posted on 10/05/2007 12:53:26 AM PDT by Soft Bigotry
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To: frankiep
The only way we will win the election and prevent the Clinton’s from waltzing right back into the White House is if we all get behind whomever the Republican nominee happens to be.If it is Rudy then you better believe that I will be voting for him.

You won't be winning anything if Giuliani is nominated. You will have one socialist running against another but in the end a socialist will still be running the country. Some people need to take off the blinders by understanding the R or D title alone is irrelevant nowadays because the GOP has incrementally has been merging with the socialist Democrats by replacing core conservative values with socialism.
103 posted on 10/05/2007 12:59:40 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: I still care
First thing Hillary will do is run to find another Ruth Bader Ginsberg. That chills my

A socialist is a socialist whether it's Giuliani or Clinton.
104 posted on 10/05/2007 1:00:57 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: babygene

If hillary is our first female president, all her screw ups, and there will be many, will be glossed over BECAUSE she’s the first female president and the liberal media loves her. Hillary’s ego and lack of expertise will set this country back a hundred years. She may not care, and I’m sure she won’t since the liberal media/historians/educators will be so focused on her being the first female president they’ll ignore/gloss over all her screw ups, she’ll come out looking good no matter what she does.

Hillary as the first female president of this country would be a grave mistake for this country. Hell, at this point, just about any female in that kind of power would suck for this country. We need a Margaret Thatcher type as the first female POTUS.

My husband is convinced that if Hillary is the dem ticket, the repub would win by a landslide. I completely disagree. I think she’d win. The soccer moms who voted for Clinton and who became the security moms and voted for Bush would then vote for Hillary BECAUSE and only BECAUSE she’s a woman.


105 posted on 10/05/2007 1:02:07 AM PDT by Twink
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To: I still care
Rudy’s not my first choice, but I’ll vote for him. First thing Hillary will do is run to find another Ruth Bader Ginsberg. That chills my blood.

Guess what? Rudy considers Ginsberg acceptable. Look it up.

106 posted on 10/05/2007 1:02:58 AM PDT by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will ENERGIZE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: frankiep
The only way we will win the election and prevent the Clinton’s from waltzing right back into the White House is if we all get behind whomever the Republican nominee happens to be.

the only way to keep Hillary out of the White House is to nominate a true conservative. It is imperative that we get centered behind a far-right candidate NOW.

107 posted on 10/05/2007 1:03:04 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Vote for FrudyMcRomson -Turn red states purple in 08!)
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To: Dustbunny
So, I guess you intend to help Hillary, who is pro choice, win the election by voting for a third party just to make sure that Giuliani is not elected. That is totally illogical!

It is totally illogical to potentially nominate one socialist against another. Voting for another party will be the second party as the GOP is aligning itself with the socialist Democrats.
108 posted on 10/05/2007 1:03:46 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: Soft Bigotry
If you subscribe to “I didn’t leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me,” you’ll get left behind entirely, and take the country with you.

The GOP should have stuck to its core conservative base over the years instead of spending time trying to appease the socialist left. Any blame for the country going down will be laid squarely at the feet of the GOP, not conservatives.
109 posted on 10/05/2007 1:07:36 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: Man50D

The GOP should have stuck to its core conservative base over the years instead of spending time trying to appease the socialist left.


The conservative base is not the majority of the party.


110 posted on 10/05/2007 1:12:48 AM PDT by durasell (!)
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To: Man50D

I agree but the GOP is made up of people so WE can change that. You made valid points and I agree. However, we control it all so we have to change.

Guiliani isn’t the best nom for our party but he’s better than any dem running and we have to acknowledge that.

This year, or this POTUS election year, I see very little difference between any of the repub candidates and the dem candidates, esp on social issues. however, there’s a HUGE difference on their foreign policy, military, etc. So that’s how I’m voting.


111 posted on 10/05/2007 1:12:51 AM PDT by Twink
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To: Man50D

If the last couple of elections haven’t made it abundantly clear, neither side can win the White House with just its base. You’ve got to be able to pull in independents, too.


112 posted on 10/05/2007 1:15:23 AM PDT by Soft Bigotry
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To: Soft Bigotry

Then I take it FR is in for an even greater split than has already occurred.
It’s gonna get ugly in here.
~~~
It won’t last long,,,And,,,

I see no “split” on Fr...


113 posted on 10/05/2007 1:17:48 AM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: 1COUNTER-MORTER-68

Maybe you should read the thread.

No one here likes Guiliani; the question is, is the site willing to split with the Republican Party over it?

That is the “split” to which I refer.


114 posted on 10/05/2007 1:21:19 AM PDT by Soft Bigotry
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To: scarface367
Statement like this simply show that you are basing your arguments on emotion, not facts. There is a huge difference between the parties. Your failure to recognize such shows that you have been fed talking points from who knows what source and cannot realistically look at reality.

here's some reality for you. The leader of the GOP, George Bush,worked with socialist Teddy Kennedy to push amnesty for illegal aliens down our throats. Bush now wants to pass the UN supported Law Of The Sea Treaty that would cede at least some of our national sovereignty to the UN. Throw in the likes of Arlen Specter and John McCain on the national level just to name a few along with Schwarzenegger in California and Republican socialist Governor Jodi Rell in Connecticut on the state level and you have a party clearly moving towards socialism. Not to mention Lincoln Chafee who has become such a flaming socialist he had to leave the GOP because it was too conservative for him. Those are facts, not emotions talking.

You need to wake up and take off the blinders the GOP is not what it was many years ago. Your incorrect assumptions only show you have no idea what I'm thinking or the fact I reached these conclusions by dealing with facts and reality head on instead of burying my head in the sand.
115 posted on 10/05/2007 1:22:19 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: Soft Bigotry

If you take FR as any indicator, there are three options:

A) Vote for Rudy or someone like him who does not have the blessing of the values voters.

B) Don’t vote because none of the Republicans are worthy of the vote.

C) Vote a hopeless third party candidate.

Any guesses as to which party wins given such a split among conservatives?


116 posted on 10/05/2007 1:23:55 AM PDT by durasell (!)
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To: Twink
Guiliani isn’t the best nom for our party but he’s better than any dem running and we have to acknowledge that.

Voting for a socialist to prevent a socialist from taking the White House is a zero sum gain at best. It only begets more socialism. It is that type of compromising thinking that has put the GOP in its current dilemma.
117 posted on 10/05/2007 1:26:19 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: durasell

Yeah, my point exactly.

Sounds like maybe FR isn’t the worry; this is something already happening with conservatives all over the country.


118 posted on 10/05/2007 1:27:25 AM PDT by Soft Bigotry
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To: Dustbunny

Ditto on the current POTUS race. Rudy’s not my choice no matter how I like his foreign policy in some areas. But if he wins the primary, if he’s the nom, I will vote for him in the general election. Heck, I’d vote for McCain in teh general election and I really really don’t want to do that.


119 posted on 10/05/2007 1:32:29 AM PDT by Twink
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To: Soft Bigotry
If the last couple of elections haven’t made it abundantly clear, neither side can win the White House with just its base. You’ve got to be able to pull in independents, too.

A large number of those independents are conservatives. They choose not to belong to either party for the very reason the GOP has been trending towards the socialist Democrats ideology. The only way to bring Conservatives into the GOP is to return to its core conservative values by not giving socialists such as Giuliani the opportunity to represent the party.
120 posted on 10/05/2007 1:32:59 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: Soft Bigotry

From what I can tell, the majority of the squishy “fence sitter” middle has already gone to the democrats. The hardcore conservative values voters are disgusted because they’ve finally figured out that politics is (gasp!) a dirty game. And the rest of the Republicans are left squabbling over scraps.


121 posted on 10/05/2007 1:34:16 AM PDT by durasell (!)
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To: Man50D

Oh I completely agree with what you said. However, I do think we still have a better shot with a repub than a dem because the dem will have the extreme leftists on their side, and hounding them constantly and as we all know, most dem politicians can’t fight the fringe, move on crowd. Pelosi, Reid, etc come to mind.

So two socialists and it’s down to the one who will fight for this country, WOT, etc. and one who will sell it out. I’m not a guiliani supporter anymore like I was at first, heck I don’t really support any of them and I’m disappointed in our choices this election. I know Rudy is not a social conservative. Neither is Romney but I’d still vote for him if he were the repub nominee. I like all of Hunter’s ideals but I don’t see him winning the nom. I like a ton about Tancredo but again I don’t see him winning the nom.

ITA. The repubs today have more in common with the dems, socialists. And we do need another party but one that can win. I don’t think any 3rd party can win today and I’m not willing to trhow away my vote this election. Get another repub president, one who values the military since no dems do, or more imporantly a repub congress, and let’s keep working on a real conservative party. That’s how I see it.


122 posted on 10/05/2007 1:45:58 AM PDT by Twink
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To: Soft Bigotry
I myself have gone with "the lesser of two evils" over the last few Presidential elections.

Been there. Done that.

This time, 2008, will be different.

I have made up my mind.

I will be doing something else, if a conservative fails to get the GOP Nomination and the thing ends up being run by a RINO at the helm who will bring us socialism and a borderless North American continent, only a little more slowly than the Democrats will do.

It is like having to chose between catching a ride home with a pal who will be driving who has had 7 beers and a pal who has had 5.

What is really the difference at the end of the day??

123 posted on 10/05/2007 2:12:38 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Visit this thread 1-hour from now. In that time, an average of 416.6 more ILLEGALS will be in the US)
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To: Twink
The only possible benefit (for at least a little while) will be for the troops. For the moment that woman raises her hand and swears the oath, you are going to see a PROFOUND turnabout in the major US national media, and they will fall in line FIRMLY behind our US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Just watch. They will do it.

Of course, they will get screwed in other ways, by merit of a Clinton Administration.

124 posted on 10/05/2007 2:15:49 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Visit this thread 1-hour from now. In that time, an average of 416.6 more ILLEGALS will be in the US)
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To: Man50D

I understand the concept. I know History (and not the socialist/liberal history being shoved down students throats today).

And I disagree. I don’t think the problem with the GOP is based in socialism or even in the splitting of the party because of whiners who won’t support any candidate if that candidate doesn’t support their *issue* totally. Even though some do vote on one issue. Most voters today don’t know a darn thing about history: world history, US history, US Constitution, politics, government, etc. We don’t educate our kids, the next generation or generations, all they’re learning now is pop history, propaganda, media history which has no basis is facts. Take a look at the public (and that means ALL) school curriculum and it’s way different than what we were taught - most of these kids who support the Right to Choose have no idea about that SC case or about the people involved. Or how the woman recanted. Most of these kids are being educated, by our tax dollars, to lean toward a certain political agenda and there’s very little anyone can do about it. Sure we fight it but then we get sued, our twp/sch dis gets sued which costs us more money. We’re in this situation now with Garden State Equality suing our sch dis because we fought the That’s A FAmily video - a pro homo vid being taught to 8 yr olds/3rd graders. Cos homosexuality and transgenderism is normal and anyone who doesn’t believe that is odd. RME.

The GOP is this in current dilemna, imo, because it doesn’t fight back. It’s afraid. Maybe it’s part of the culture or fad today that if a lone nut case or two lone nut cases start shooting at you or your classmates, well then duck or hide rather than fighting back - because law abiding citizens can’t carry guns and all that. And honor means nothing and it’s ok to hide or run to save ourselves even when the chances point in the favor to the nut case and maybe storming him could save a few lives. But, we’re now taught to hide or don’t do anything to set a nut case off when they’re already set off. ??? Remember how scared certain senators became when we fought back about the Amnesty bill for illegals? We won that round. We wouldn’t have a fighting chance if those senators were dems.

The GOP is in this dilemna because we allowed this to happen and we can change it. There won’t be a change, drastic change, before 2008 election so I’m notwilling to throw away my vote. The change is happening now from what I’ve seen on this conservative board.

So if the election comes down to a repub nom who values our military and understands this war on terror and Islam to another who hates America, hates our military and doesn’t understand the War we’re fighting then yeah, I’ll vote for the former in a hearbeat. We won’t have any social issues to fight for or any freedoms if we lose this War.


125 posted on 10/05/2007 2:20:09 AM PDT by Twink
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Dear Dr. Dobson:

I realize that Mrs. Bill Clinton has your FBI file. I also realize that you probably have skeletons in your closet that you want kept there. Mrs. Bill Clinton’s only hope for election is to have a third party candidate siphon off enough votes to get her the electoral vote she needs to win. Ross Perot did this for her husband twice. Mrs Bill Clinton is not bright enough to think up a new plan; she will use the same one he used.

My question for you is simple. Is your personal life so important that you would sacrifice this country’s future in order to help Mrs Bill Clinton win? Are you that vain?

If the answer is “Yes”, may God have mercy on your soul, because history won’t.


126 posted on 10/05/2007 2:27:06 AM PDT by american_ranger (Never ever use DirecTV)
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To: american_ranger
George Bush senior and Bob Dole are probably the most to blame for their consecutive losses to Clinton.

One who's heart was hopelessly not in it, and the other one as exciting as a TV test pattern at 3:00 in the morning.

This can be avoided by the GOP doing "the right thing". There is still time.

127 posted on 10/05/2007 2:30:26 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Visit this thread 1-hour from now. In that time, an average of 416.6 more ILLEGALS will be in the US)
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To: Soft Bigotry

Good for Dobson... Finally a Christian leader getting some nads..


128 posted on 10/05/2007 2:33:28 AM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: XeniaSt

.........”Dobson needs to seek the face of the L-rd.
He needs to address issues and not people.”..........

HE MAY HAVE, HAVE YOU???????

THE ISSUES ARE IN THE PEOPLE.


129 posted on 10/05/2007 2:34:33 AM PDT by Lily4Jesus ( Jesus Saves)
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To: Timbo64

.....”Rudy can beat Clinton in 2008.”..........

NO THE CAN’T

DON’T WASTE YOUR TIME


130 posted on 10/05/2007 2:36:36 AM PDT by Lily4Jesus ( Jesus Saves)
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To: cherry
Christians are becoming the wimpiest bunch of whiners.....we don't get our way we would rather have the whole entire country ruined and infiltrated and controlled by Satanist then to either shut the heck up or support the most reasonable, conservative, rational, logical and respected person out there and that is not the Hitler.....

Romans 3:8 (King James Version)

And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

I think my damnation comes first... before thinking what the world thinks of me. But thanks for trying...

131 posted on 10/05/2007 2:37:00 AM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: Soft Bigotry; chaos_5; All
You all make very good points. I'm furious and frustrated with Rep. leadership that we are being put in this position at all. I have three sons and two nephews in the military. I have a very personal stake in who the CIC is. I also have a moral code that prevents me from casting a vote for anyone who supports abortion and the gay agenda. This presents me with an unacceptable quandary. Glenn Beck says go by the 80% rule: if you agree with a candidate at least 80% you can vote for him. But if the 20% means abortion on demand, gay marriage, and unchecked illegal immigration?

I feel certain, considering the political climate and the role of the media in politics, once we let go of family values they will disappear from politics for good. Any progress we've made in restricting abortion and holding off the gay agenda will be lost. Moral relativism will rule the land. Once the Republican Party believes they can force us to compromise they will write us off for good. We (Christians and pro-lifers) must stick together and vote for what we believe, not against Hillary. If we turn out in the primaries we can make sure Rudy doesn't get the nomination. It's not like we don't have any other choices!

132 posted on 10/05/2007 2:37:35 AM PDT by athelass (Proud Mom of a Sailor and two Marines! Frodo Lives!)
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To: Timbo64
Rudy can beat Clinton in 2008.

Maybe, but he will have to do it without my family's vote.

133 posted on 10/05/2007 2:47:57 AM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: athelass

SPOT ON!! And VERY well said, I might add!


134 posted on 10/05/2007 2:48:28 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Visit this thread 1-hour from now. In that time, an average of 416.6 more ILLEGALS will be in the US)
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To: american_ranger

Dear Mr. Ranger...

“Why do you help wicked people and love those who hate the LORD? The LORD’s anger is directed toward you because you have done this. 2 Chronicles 19:2


135 posted on 10/05/2007 2:54:06 AM PDT by LowOiL (Duncan Hunter .. a man you're not ashamed to support full heartedly..)
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To: Dustbunny; P-Marlowe
I think that Dobson must be a closet Democrat if he pulls a stunt like this.

BULL!

If the Republicans nominate a pro-abortion candidate then they must have a desire to elect Hillary. That is the only rational conclusion.

They will, in effect, be saying to us conservative Christians: "If you will only agree with us to murder our children, then we can win the presidency!"

I will not put my eternal soul in jeopardy with such a deal. No sane person who understands what we believe would ask me to do so.

136 posted on 10/05/2007 3:13:14 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: SoConPubbie
How you can call yourself a Christian and then proclaim you would be willing to vote for Rudy is beyond me. Any candidate that believes it is a woman’s right to choose to murder her unborn child, as Rudy does, is not fit to be a leader or a softball team, much less the leader of the US. As a Christian, your moral principles are supposed to be your first priority even to the death. Otherwise, you are definitely not living a Christ-like life. You might want to rethink either your proclamation of being a Christian, or your political position

That's right for the campaign and the primary; but if the final nominees are Rudy and Hillary, you would be a self-righteous fool to try to stand on principle when the entire election belongs to "Caesar" anyway. We got Bill Clinton because of Ross Perot. Do you really want to bring an end to the United States Constitution if you can't have perfection in a candidate? Only God is perfect.

137 posted on 10/05/2007 3:17:55 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: SoConPubbie
I don’t care what Dobson has to say if he can’t even have the decency to sit down and talk to the man before he starts making statements like this. It lacks a certain Christ-like quality.

Amen to that. Dobson is politically naive. A sheep to the slaughter.

138 posted on 10/05/2007 3:19:28 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: Graybeard58; cherry; Brimack34; HockeyPop; Soft Bigotry; SoConPubbie; frankiep; babygene; ...
I will never vote for Rudy. Flame away.

You are exactly correct, GB58. I, too, will NEVER vote for Rudy for any reason. Ever.

Those who agree with killing their own children just to win the presidency are traitors to their faith in Jesus Christ. They should look to their souls for they are willing to make a pact with the devil.

I doubt the legitimacy of their faith in the true Jesus who loved little children and became angry with His disciples when they wouldn't let children come to sit with Him.

Jesus said it would be better for a person to be drowned in the sea than that he injure one of these little ones.

139 posted on 10/05/2007 3:24:47 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: Twink
"but he’s better"

Maybe, maybe not.

I am reminded of the stranglehold rats have on "minorities" and secular Jews. It always amazes me that those groups can vote for a party that does them such a disservice and holds them in such low regard.

I guess conservatives are now in the same boat and we can answer ourselves how a party can keep a group "on the plantation".

I've never appreciated a man peeing on my boot and telling me it's raining. A great many republicans have already told me that I'm a sexist and a racist, I guess I should just consider it rain and be a good slave and mash that old "R" button even thought I know it's for a party that doesn't share my values and appears to think that I'm some sort of low life. My party, right or wrong. I guess Zell Miller is the only person allowed to have standards.

Let's hope it doesn't come to this but if the republican party wants to spend the next 40 years in the wilderness so be it, I didn't leave the party, the party left me.

140 posted on 10/05/2007 3:26:49 AM PDT by Proud_texan (Just my opinion, no relationship to reality is expressed or implied.)
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To: frankiep
Look, I’m completely against abortion too but

And that "but" marks the great divide. I am with Dobson on this one. And I came to the conclusion early on - if Rudy is the nominee, I'll find a third party candidate.

141 posted on 10/05/2007 3:31:33 AM PDT by don-o (Do the RIGHT thing. Become a monthly donor. End Freepathons forever)
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To: babygene
No, if the republicans nominate a social liberal (Rudy), THEY will be handing it to Clinton...

Remember how Abraham prepared to take the knife to sacrifice his own son because he believed it was what God wanted?

Stop holding your breath and turning blue if you don't get what you think you want. Our leaders are anointed, and you have to pray for God's will to be done and then trust the Republican convention to do the best thing.

God works even through evil to achieve good. He is in charge. You have a duty to be a team player for the best person, even if the best person isn't good enough by your individual standards. Have you ever considered the sheer impossibility of leading a sinless life and also taking on all the evil in the world, as the U.S. president must do? There has only been one Man who has ever done that, and He was the very God.

There simply isn't enough unrest in the nation to pull off a third party victory. Trying to sabotage a Republican in the final election will only install Satan and Brutha Satan back in the White House.

142 posted on 10/05/2007 3:33:32 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: Ol' Sparky
Others realize that electing a liberal Republican causes far more damage than a liberal Democrat and don't want a scenario where both parties are left-of-center.

So, please enlighten us: how do you propose to fix that problem?

143 posted on 10/05/2007 3:38:05 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: inkling
The good Rev. Dobson should ask himself a question: Why would the anti-life New York Times want me to write an op-ed for them?

He is not a pastor and is not ordained. He is a licensed child psychologist.

Right now, he's having some trouble understanding the adults.

144 posted on 10/05/2007 3:40:57 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (America: “the most benign hegemon in history.”—Mark Steyn)
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To: Albion Wilde
Stop holding your breath and turning blue if you don't get what you think you want.

Comparing people standing on principles to children throwing temper tantrums is just off the mark.

145 posted on 10/05/2007 3:42:50 AM PDT by don-o (Do the RIGHT thing. Become a monthly donor. End Freepathons forever)
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To: Soft Bigotry
There are times I briefly think a Christian third party is a good idea...

then I remember we are up against Satan HERself. Anyone pushing for a third party just doesn't get it, what we are up against here.

146 posted on 10/05/2007 3:58:23 AM PDT by bigjoesaddle ("What we are making is a socialist utopia" - Jim Jones)
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To: roamer_1
It is imperative that we get centered behind a far-right candidate NOW.

I agree, but only far-right in terms of todays political climate and perceptions. This piddling around by conservatives with those in the top tier because they have been led to believe they are "electable" (medias take), will result in conservatives being on the endangered list, sooner, rather than later.

I don't think Dobson can endorse a candidate as such and it may have something to do with a tax-exempt status. I am not sure why pro-family evangelicals and everyone else isn't getting behind Hunter in a big way, but that's me.

The talk of conservatives compromising their core beliefs and the presumptive portents of who is and isn't electable and who can't and can beat Hillary; This is what will elect Hillary. Any group willing to compromise their core to get one in the win column had better enjoy that win, if it comes. What that group is left with is an empty shell and empty shells aren't known for their winning ways nor advancing their causes.

147 posted on 10/05/2007 4:05:40 AM PDT by WildcatClan (Duncan Hunter '08 -)
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To: I still care

All of the damage to the entire U.S. that even more amnesty for illegal immigrants would create thanks to a President Hillary Clinton and Democratic Congressional majorities is even scarier! The Democrats would also create legislature which would always allow illegal immigrants the right to vote throughout the U.S.!


148 posted on 10/05/2007 4:12:21 AM PDT by johnthebaptistmoore
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To: Graybeard58
I would never vote for a person that is as ugly in drag as Rootie Tootie or the Beast.

I have severe doubts about Fred. He spent too much time with the dogs in Hollywierd. I believe he has many fleas that we don’t see now. :0)

149 posted on 10/05/2007 4:13:26 AM PDT by seemoAR (Absolute power corrupts absolutely)
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To: american_ranger
Mrs. Bill Clinton’s only hope for election is to have a third party candidate siphon off enough votes to get her the electoral vote she needs to win.

The GOP has so aligned itself with the socialist Democrat ideology that the they are essentially one party. An alternative party will be the second party, not a third party.

Is your personal life so important that you would sacrifice this country’s future in order to help Mrs Bill Clinton win?

Is the GOP so bent on sacrificing conservative values that it is willing to possibily nominate a socialist like Giuliani? How is a GOP socialist any better than a Democrat socialist? Are you that naive?

If the answer is “Yes”, may God have mercy on your soul, because history won’t

If the answer is yes then we are doomed to repeat the history of the 2006 elections.
150 posted on 10/05/2007 4:18:18 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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