Skip to comments.The "Not So Poor" 12 Year Old Who Rebutted Bush on SCHIP Veto
Posted on 10/06/2007 10:42:57 PM PDT by icwhatudo
Graeme Frost, who gave the democrat rebuttal to George Bushs reasons for vetoing the SCHIP Bill, is a middle school student at the exclusive$20,000 per year Park School in Baltimore, MD.
Graeme was in a severe car accident three years ago, and received care paid for by the government program known as SCHIP-(State Children's Health Insurance Program)
"I was in a coma for a week and couldn't eat or stand up or even talk. My sister was even worse," Graeme wrote. "My parents work really hard and always make sure my sister and I have everything we need, but we can't afford private health insurance."
His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school prior to the accident meaning the family was able to come up with nearly $40,000 per year for tuition for these 2 grade schoolers. Confirmation both attended Park found here using edit-"find on this page"-Gemma. It will take you to an article in the schools newspaper about a fundraiser for Gemma class of 16, and Graeme class of 13.
Here are photos of the school's 44,000 square foot Wyman Arts Center: two galleries, an outdoor ampitheater, Meyerhoff Theater, Macks-Fidler Black Box Theater, practice rooms, rehearsal space, and ceramics, 3-D sculpture, woodworking, jewelry, painting, photography, digital graphics studios, recording studio, and keyboard lab.
In a Baltimore Sun article the family claims to be raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. "Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work."
What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company "Frostworks",since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992 so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as "bookkeeper and operations management" prior to her recent 2007 hire at the "medical publishing firm". As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.
His company, Frostworks, is located at 3701 E BALTIMORE ST. A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999. The buildings owner is listed as DIVERSIFIED INDUSTRIAL DESIGN CENTER, LLC whose mailing address is listed as 104 S Collington Ave which is the Frost's home. The commercial property he owns is also listed as the business address for another company called Reillys Designs which leads to the question of whether rental income is included in the above mentioned salary total
The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF. A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job with granite counter tops and glass front cabinets
One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home, send kids to exclusive private schools, purchase commercial property and run your own business... maybe money can be found for other things...maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.
Perhaps we need to eliminate the framing of the debate;
Insurance -vs- Government payer...
Make a different frame entirely.
Haven’t a clue what to frame it but we must fundamentally change the debate.
There are a lot of good reasons why modern high quality healthcare is expensive. I don’t see anyone dying in the streets because he/she can’t get medical care. In fact, just the opposite: I’ve seen modern medical practice keep people on expensive life support paid for by Medicare or Medicaid. Whether thats right or wrong is a whole other issue but it is certainly the fact of the matter in the US.
The Democrats really made a terrible mistake on this extending SCHIP. A whole lot of people - like me - never thought about this program and it could have gone on forever without being an issue to me. But here’s this family that is already on the program as it currently exists and I’m thinking this family is probably gaming the system and if I had all the facts, I would probably very much disapprove and now the Democrats want to extend it to millions more at higher incomes. From a non-issue, its become something I will probably decide that I’m against.
Did Bonnie have auto insurance?
And were these children wearing seatbelts???
Of course, Americans DO pay for a lot of healthcare without insurance: veterinary care for their pets. There are loads of vets around where I live but its sometimes hard to get an appointment. Its always a hefty bill to go to a vet and theres no insurance picking up any of it. Would anyone be surprised if the Frosts have pets and took them to the vet when they are sick and paid the bill themselves? But when it comes to their own children, there is a mentality of entitlement that the whole of society has a responsibility and that it would be a very good thing if medical care for your children was entirely provided by the government.
>If they can buy investment real estate, remodel kitchens, and pay 40K tuition for the kids on 45K per year, Id say we need a bill to increase funding for IRS audits.<
One or both parents probably has a trust fund. That wouldn’t show up in the income he makes from his business.
Valid point. But wouldn’t a couple of trust fund babies have enough sense to get some health insurance? Guess not.
My thoughts when I first saw this picture was “That’s a damn ice kitchen. Can’t get one like that on $45,000 a year, I know!”
My point was that if you had two children who had suffered brain injuries, you either could not get insurance for them or it would be too expensive. I DO agree that they should have had it before and it would seem to make sense for mom to find a job with insurance.
Ah, banning the freon-based, pressurized MDI’s was environmentalism stupidity run amok, but do tell me, why 5% of asthmatics can’t use the new HFA MDI’s or the dry-powder inhalers. But blame the environmentalists and DuPont big business types for banning those products.
“The Dems had to know this was coming. Its so stupid I dont know if I believe it.”
Honestly, I think it’s brazen testament to the fact that the Dems and their biatches the MSM, can put any story on the nightly news and it will be swallowed hook, line and sinker.
And if you DARE to question any of it, you’re just an unfeeling, heartless neocon.
Very doubtful; "code-pink" cindy sheehan is back again!!!
WHY should he???
According to you, then we all should have a J.O.B., makes no sense at all!!!
This caught my eye:
“The bridegroom’s late grandfather Frederick G. Frost Jr. was an architect responsible for several public buildings in New York, including Martin Luther King High School in Manhattan.. “
This says to me “Old NY Money...Big Trust Fund for poor Halsey Frost.” And he can’t pay for his own kids’ health insurance?
>(T)he Feds should not be providing medical services directly; instead, they should provide infrastructure (in the form of vouchers) good for treatment at any participating privately-owned, for-profit medical care establishment.
>This would provide a guarantee of health care for all Americans while preserving the free-market system of choice that ensures quality care.
I'm not a capitalist, but neither am I a socialist.
I call bravo sierra!
How is your infrastructure voucher idea not government-paid health care!? A socialist looks for protection from government. Your desire for government to "provide a guarantee of health care" means take from me at the point of a gun and give to you by the grace of your vote. You're sounding like a duck to me.
The high cost of Heath Insurance was caused by the government mandated and forced controls on health care that already exist, in addition to the exorbitantly excessive tort awards fomented by liberal judges and trial lawyers. When lawsuits are uncontrolled, insurers must increase costs and implement costly measures to protect against the most extreme Liability Risk. When Government forces Health care Personnel, Facilities and Institutions to provide services to various segments of society, the costs to all other groups and individuals must increase to absorb the unbridled excessive demand.
It is the proud duty of every Christian to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and care for the sick even if the needy don't deserve it.
Is it your duty also to vote to force your fellow citizen to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, and care for the sick even if they don't deserve it?
As with Marxian socialism, ideological free-market capitalism does not track with reality as experienced by human beings in the real world.
You disparage Laissez-Faire Capitalism, but how can you hold your opinion when it has never been tried. Even in the United States, our government has had varying degrees of economic control throughout our history.
Although if you consider individual circumstances, the family doctor of my youth, Dr. Stephen D. Smith, functioned pretty much in a laissez-faire fashion through the Fifties and Sixties. My siblings and I survived just fine, in rural Georgia, without government intervention other then the Polio vaccine.
This looks hugh and series. Showers for all.
I like to get the info from all sides of an argument. I found a rebuttal to this issue at
It lists some facts about the Frosts - like income, what they paid for their house, and what-not. Of course, it is full of emotion. I posted the following on that very liberal blog under the name El Conquistador. I hope they have the guts to keep it posted, and I hope some of their readers have the brains to comprehend it.
Put all emotion aside. It’s all about personal accountability. It’s all about individual choices. He chose to be a self-employed woodworker. She chose to work in her current job. If they do not make enough to provide medical coverage for their family, they need to make better choices.
Mr. Frost needs to ditch woodworking and work for someone else. It’s just not paying the bills. If he really is making less than $45k/yr working for himself, he needs to get a real job and keep woodworking as a hobby for extra income. I’m assuming he makes less than $45k/yr because the story says they live on that much, and his wife works as well, and probably doesn’t work for free. If he is a good carpenter he could make much more than $45k/yr working for a contracting firm. Is that figure net or gross? He may have to take a job he doesn’t like as long as it means paying the bills. Personal sacrifices.
Don’t live beyond your means. Cut back on the spending. Our government needs to learn this one as well. You can’t spend what you don’t have. After finding a job that pays at least as much as he made working for himself, sell the shop. Take any money left after paying off the shop mortgage and pay off the other bills you may have starting with the smallest. That would probably clear up at least a couple hundred $ per month. Now that those bills are paid, take what was being paid into the shop mortgage and the paid-off bills and put that towards private medical coverage. If you spend all the money you make, you have nothing left for the emergencies in life. Please cut up the credit cards!!! The money is there, you just need to rearrange you financial priorities. Personal accountability.
If they bought their house for $55k and it could sell for $300k (like other houses in the neighborhood reportedly do), maybe they need to sell the house and get a smaller place. Would it be tough having six in a house half the size (approx 1500 sq/ft)? Maybe. I was raised in a 900 sq/ft house with five people on less income than the Frost family. My family did it when I was a kid, and so do many others with more people in even smaller houses or apartments. Currently, I’m raising a family of four in an 80 year-old 1200 sq/ft house on $75k/yr (before taxes). Would I like a bigger, newer house? Of course. Could I afford it? Theoretically, yes. Do I want to extend myself so much that I can’t afford medical coverage? No! Personal choices and accountability.
Too many Americans think they are entitled to the 3000 sq/ft house, new cars, and plasma tv’s in every room. If you can afford that, great! But if you spend beyond your means and can’t pay for life’s emergencies, don’t go crying to the taxpayers to bail you out.
My heart goes out to these people, but there are ways to get themselves out of the mess without resorting to handouts from Uncle Sam. Most people are just unwilling to do the hard work and make the personal sacrifices to do so.
Isn't this a great country?
A postman family living in a dump in Daly City can donate $250,000 to Democratic candidates, but an independent business man (with a wife who works for a medical publisher!) living in a 3,000 SF home in a swank development can't health insurance.
In a smug, creepy way.
Uh, they can’t get health insurance because they can’t buy a private policy, because of “pre-existing conditions.”
Thank you for pointing this out. There is a lot of righteous indignation around here from those who obviously never have had to actually BUY private/individual health insurance.
Also, for those criticizing the family for sending the child to private school - the NYTImes reported this morning that the child had a scholarship.
In Massachusetts, children cannot be denied private health insurance because of a pre-existing condition. I can’t believe that Maryland is much different.
I’d want to see documentation on “scholarships” if I was a reporter and I’d want to know about the other 2 kids and where they go to school and how the Frosts got into this very posh private school in the first place. This family clearly has upper class roots -— why wouldn’t the school find kids who wouldn’t get opportunities any other way, i.e., kids from a poor or working class background.
Do any other family members donate to the school? Remember the Soprano episode where Carmela goes to lunch with the Dean at the Ivy League school Meadow goes to and he proposes a $50,000 donation and Carmela and Tony interpret it as an insurance policy to keep Meadow in good graces at the school?
There are too many gaps in this story. I was talking to my brother about it and his question was who it was that brought this particular case to the Democratic Party so that the boy could be used for the radio address.
Isn’t that chick from Air America named Randi?
Good questions. Did you get banned from whiskeyfire as I did yesterday when I asked some very polite questions about the story?
My hunch is that the Frosts are “artists” and their finances are subsidized by the children’s grandparents. Thats just my hunch but the reporters ought to ask the obvious questions to nail down why these folks are content with such a low income when they could make more. Is the $45k/yr even from work or is it from investments? I’d like to have a reporter look at the tax returns and say whats earned and whats investment income.
There is no reason to think that the children would not have had medical care for injuries resulting from the car accident without SCHIP, is there?
I don't live in MD, but to my knowledge, MA is unique in the country with the way it handles health insurance (Gov. Romney's health care reform law.) From what I understand, pretty much every other state hasn't changed - private/individual policies can be restricted to those who have no significant illnesses or pre-existing conditions.
I agree - reporters should always go for documentation.
Do you know the school? Why do you say it is "posh?"
Since when does having "upper class roots" have anything to do with the issue of health insurance? If you can't find anyone to sell you a policy (or if policies cost $20,000, or $30,000 per year - which were prices quoted in a recent Forbes article on private health insurance costs and how to lower them), then the "upper class roots" won't help, especially if your aging parents do not feel responsible for paying your family's health care bills.
No, this was true in 2005, before Romney’s “reforms”.
Their 1936 rowhouse was purchased in 1990 for $55,000. It was vacant and in a run-down neighborhood that has improved since then, in part because of people like themselves who took a chance. It is now assessed at $263,140, though under state law the value of that asset is not taken into account in determining their eligibility for SCHIP.
No, I didn’t get banned from whiskeyfire. I guess I just didn’t try hard enough. :)
I did get the usual emotional responses, though. They called me names and what-not. You know, the usual liberal responses to a well thought-out observation.
I presented facts and options to help the Frosts help themselves. The whiskeyfire crowd responded by name calling and asking for the tax-payers to save the Frosts. What’s so crazy about selling a large house, buying a smaller one, and using the difference to pay bills? I suggest that and I’m labeled as “heartless”.
From The Center For American Progress:
First, Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year. Second, the Frosts bought their “lavish house” 16 years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less safe. And finally, the Frosts make $45,000 combined and over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.
I know the experience. On another liberal forum, I was tempted to put a little aside in my comment about my view of the school lunch program when my daughter was in elementary school and 50% (!!!) of the children in that school were getting free lunch. I don’t even think they required showing your tax returns to get free lunch so probably a lot of people just lie to get the giveaway. IMO, its a terrible thing. I grew up in a working class family and we brought a peanut butter sandwich or a cream cheese and jelly sandwich to school every day and we made the sandwiches ourselves. It was very normal back then in the 50’s and 60’s. It was not a hardship.
I think the Democrats made a mistake using this 12 year old boy and then all the demonizing of anyone who questions the program. They’ve elevated the issue and now there might be some discussion of requiring the states to have an asset test for eligibility and requiring that applicants substantiate that the parents or at least one parent is actually putting in a 40 hour week.
Saying doesn’t make it so. Have you seen any documentation? A poster above found a “quit claim” on this house in 2005. What was that all about? Was this the Mr. Frost who one who bought the property in 1990 or was it quit-claimed to him and his wife in 2005 by the Frost who did buy the property in 1990? Gotta nail those things down and not take anyone’s word for it now that its all become a political issue.
I remember so many of the liberal blogs jumping into the Norman Hsu story when it first broke that it was such a smear and unsubstantiated, etc. Well, they’re not saying that any more because Hsu turned out to be a fugitive and a big crook. Gotta see the Frosts’ deeds and bank accounts and put the Dean at that private school on record for how this particular family got a scholarship (and how much? documents, please) to this plum school. The Frosts are partisans; allowing the boy to be used the way they did makes them look like extreme partisans.
“Since when does having “upper class roots” have anything to do with the issue of health insurance?” - because someone who comes from a millionaire family might be getting gifts. This family raises the suspicion of a loophole that would not have been raised without that Times wedding announcement.
Yes, its a very posh school. Posters above have noted very lavish amenities that are on the school’s website.
How ironic. Does Randy now see into the future? She named her quilts “Coming Apart” (as is...their story...at the seams) and “Almost Perfect Timing” (as in...almost, had it not been for the ever-vigilent freepers).
How ironic. Does Randy now see into the future? She named her quilts “Coming Apart” (as is...their story...at the seams) and “Almost Perfect Timing” (as in...almost, had it not been for the ever-vigilent freepers).
Hahahaha, you are now being “investigated” by the DUmmies!!!
“Dig up information on icwhatudo, this is the name that pops up over and over again.”
So I found this in TIME
It turns out, however, that not everything about the Frosts’ life pops up on a Google search. While Graeme does attend a private school, he does so on scholarship. Halsey Frost is a self-employed woodworker; he and his wife say they earn between $45,000 and $50,000 a year to provide for their family of six. Their 1936 rowhouse was purchased in 1990 for $55,000. It was vacant and in a run-down neighborhood that has improved since then, in part because of people like themselves who took a chance. It is now assessed at $263,140, though under state law the value of that asset is not taken into account in determining their eligibility for SCHIP. And while they are still uninsured, they claim it is most certainly not by choice. Bonnie Frost says the last time she priced health coverage, she learned it would cost them $1,200 a month.
I don’t understand why you’re attacking the Frost family. Seems to me you are killing the messenger.
My hunch is that the Frosts connected to the big Dems through that private school. Maybe some big Dems have their children at that school, its that fancy that it could be Pelosi kin.
Krugman’s column (NY Times) today is “The Sliming of Graeme Frost” and Tumulty (TIME) titles hers “The Swiftboating of Graeme Frost.” They are really going bonkers. Of course, none of the issues in this thread are addressed as to whether loopholes in the law make this program accessible to people who don’t have to work much because they’ve got other money. “Working” poor, right? The public wouldn’t buy it otherwise.
And if anyone is to blame for Graeme Frost being hurt, surely its his own parents and the Democrats. I saw Hillary Clinton on Olbermann last night and she goes right into slamming the “right wing” (like no one can have an opinion in this country any more if it differs from hers without being an extremist). Well, I remember very well that the Clintons shielded Chelsea when they were in the White House. It was one of the few good things I had to say about them. They did not trot her out to make political speeches. This boy is actually younger than Chelsea was. Clinton called him a “young man” and that was strange, too. Would she have called her daughter a “young woman” at age 12. No, it was the parents and her party that misused and abused this child.
Lets see where it goes. I am personally not a partisan for either party. I’d just like the truth, please.
Welcome to FR!!!! See Post #390, good investigation!!! Now, why don’t you crawl back under the DUmmie rock from which you came.
They gotta show their documents and they won’t. They’ve already declined to show tax returns. When you put yourself into this level of politics, letting your child be used to attack the other party, you have to prove everything you say because you are a partisan. For all you know, each of the Frost children has a hundred thousand dollar bank account or more. For all you know, all of the $45,000 income they show is investment income. At this point, I don’t even know if Maryland SCHIP requires you to include income from tax free municipal bonds. Thats the gist of the issue: loopholes are bad public policy because they erode confidence.
Just popping in so the DU freaks will go nuts.