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New York Times Poll: Evangelicals Agree with Dr. Dobson
CitizenLink.com ^ | 10-8-2007 | Jennifer Mesko

Posted on 10/08/2007 5:17:30 PM PDT by monomaniac

New York Times Poll: Evangelicals Agree with Dr. Dobson

by Jennifer Mesko, associate editor

Majority only will support a presidential candidate who shares their values.

A New York Times/CBS News poll shows white, evangelical Republicans agree with Dr. James Dobson.

Nearly 60 percent of those who plan to vote in the primaries said they could not support a candidate they didn't agree with on issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage. Eighty-six percent said presidential candidates should be judged on both their political record and their personal life.

Dr. Dobson has taken a beating in the media for promising to vote only for a candidate who shares his basic values, even if that means supporting a third-party candidate.

Last week, he wrote an op-ed piece for The New York Times to clarify his position: "Speaking personally, and not for the organization I represent, I firmly believe that the selection of a president should begin with a recommitment to traditional moral values and beliefs. Those include the sanctity of human life, the institution of marriage, and other inviolable pro-family principles. Only after that determination is made can the acceptability of a nominee be assessed."

Rick Scarborough, president of Vision America, a Texas-based group that has a network of 5,000 pastors willing to mobilize their churches to vote, said evangelicals are not bluffing.

“I am not going to cast a sacred vote granted to me by the blood of millions of God-fearing Americans who died on the fields of battle for freedom, for a candidate who says it’s OK to kill the unborn,” he told The Times. “I just can’t.”


WATCH DR. DOBSON ON TV
Dr. James Dobson will be a guest on Hannity & Colmes on the Fox News Channel tonight at 9 ET. The program re-airs at midnight ET. He will offer his views, as a private citizen, on the 2008 presidential election.

FOR MORE INFORMATION
Read Dr. Dobson's op-ed that ran in The New York Times last week.



TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2008; abortion; christianvote; dobson; duncanhunter; electionpresident; elections; evangelical; evangelicals; fred; fredthompson; hannity; hannityandcolmes; homosexualagenda; humanlife; killing; life; nyt; poll; prolife; religion; republicans; romney; rudy; samesexmarriage; thompson; unborn
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1 posted on 10/08/2007 5:17:34 PM PDT by monomaniac
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To: monomaniac
what is this, a loss-leader to boost their credibility?

New York Times Poll: most people fall down, not up.

2 posted on 10/08/2007 5:19:04 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (are you looking at me?)
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To: monomaniac
Why do we only hear about evangelical Christians when it is an issue that threatens to split them?

I am waiting for the article from anti war Cindy Sheehan types about it they can put their core issue aside and vote for Hillary.

It is amazing how the MSM is all of a sudden concerned about our morals. BTW.. This is one Christian who will vote for who ever the eventual nominee is.

3 posted on 10/08/2007 5:23:20 PM PDT by codercpc
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To: monomaniac
The only surprise is that the number is but 60%.

Evangelicals are principled and will vote their principles, no matter what.

That's why they are not reliable PARTY voters. Never have been, never will be. They can and will vote dem (did in the 06 elections...dims who opposed abortion and gay marriage did very well with evangelicals), GOP or 3rd party if necessary.

However, it IS possible for the GOP to form a new majority. This can be done IF the evangelicals start their own, 3rd party right away. If they don't, the GOP will lose and lose big time in 08. It'll be the congressional mid-terms before any comeback can begin.

By then the fairness doctrine and federal funding of all elections will be in place. Of course, the govt will only fund those candidates who are "mainstream".

4 posted on 10/08/2007 5:24:01 PM PDT by Mariner
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To: monomaniac
Bad choice. Not voting, or voting a third party candidate only helps the opposition. And if they think someone who differs with them on a few points isn’t better than someone who not only differs with them on every point but hates them too is not good stewardship of their vote.

It would be different if every time someone didn’t vote as a protest they took a vote away from the other side, but that’s not how it works. Failing to vote, or voting for a third party candidate is tantamount to voting for the other person. Every time I say this I get heat from those who try to explain how it’s not so, but I am not not convinced by their arguments.

No matter how much you disagree with Rudy if he’s the candidate of the party and you sit out the vote, or vote for a third party candidate, knowing full well he or she can’t win you are in essence casting a vote for the opposition.

5 posted on 10/08/2007 5:24:57 PM PDT by jwparkerjr (Sigh . . .)
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To: monomaniac

The sanctity of human life is the genesis of “Christian involvement in politics.”

One can’t underestimate the seriousness of the issue to those who are deeply committed.

People who call themsleves “evangelical” or “Christian” can drift whatever way the wind blows, but for those of us including myself the “life” issue stands out.

Politicians know how to say what we want to hear, but actions are going to make the difference in the end.

How Roberts and Alito vote on the Supreme Court will say a lot about if this involvement in politics has meant any tangible results.


6 posted on 10/08/2007 5:25:19 PM PDT by Nextrush (Proudly uncommitted in the 2008 race for president for now)
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To: monomaniac
Sorry, I am very pro-life and think highly of Dr. Dobson.

That being said, if he continues with this insanity, he will surely get a true nightmare for president, one that will hand him his worst fears (3 more Ruth Ginsburgs?). In this regard, he should keep his powder dry rather than paint himself and others in a corner so soon.

7 posted on 10/08/2007 5:26:36 PM PDT by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: monomaniac
MSM strategy:

Divide and conquer.

It's that simple and they think nobody sees through it.

8 posted on 10/08/2007 5:27:13 PM PDT by capt. norm (Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.)
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To: Lakeshark

God
Family
Country

That’s just the way it is.


9 posted on 10/08/2007 5:31:38 PM PDT by donna (Perhaps if republicans would adhere to the Bible’s first 10 Commandments they wouldn’t need an 11th.)
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To: monomaniac
Majority only will support a presidential candidate who shares their values.

I actually plan to vote for someone who is diametrically opposed to my values so I can prove the NYT's wrong

" rolling eyes "

10 posted on 10/08/2007 5:31:48 PM PDT by Popman
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To: monomaniac
This is stupid, stupid politics by Dobson, almost breathtakingly childish and naive. Now don't get me wrong, I have my pet issues as well - gay marraige is an abomination and I have trouble with 2 of the candidates with their liberal past on it.

However, I do understand that the only realiable thing I will get if I vote 3rd party is Hillary elected and Ruth Bader Ginsberg redux. But I get a Republican elected, at least I will get a seat at the table.

Harriet Miers is a great example of where conservatives had a say in the process and won out. Hillary will have no reservations about sending a modern day Roland Frieseler to the Supreme Court.

11 posted on 10/08/2007 5:38:52 PM PDT by KC_Conspirator
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To: monomaniac

I’m glad to see Dobson and the evangelical wing vetting Fred as a candidate. After what we went through here on FR when we filtered out tootyfruityRudy, we couldn’t afford an internecine war of social conservatives over Fred.

We’re in the same boat we all were when aRINOld jumped into the Kahleefornya race for guvernator. The solid, colorless social conservative, Tom McClintock had enough poll numbers and weight to win the race but the republican party abandoned him. And look what that got us in the sunshine state. So if we go for the electable name-recognition candidate, don’t be surprised if we end up with a wish-washy center-left presidency.


12 posted on 10/08/2007 5:38:58 PM PDT by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq — via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: monomaniac

With all due respect to Evangelicals...

If they keep going on like that, they’ll bring us president Hillary(TM).

*donning holy-water-enhanced fire-retardant suit*


13 posted on 10/08/2007 5:39:29 PM PDT by El Conservador ("Liberalism is the application of childish emotion to complex issues." - MrB)
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To: jwparkerjr
If you don’t want to split the coalition then do not nominate Giuliani. To most Evangelicals this is a core issue. There is no compromised here. I guess if the dems nominated a Klansman it would be the African American’s fault if they did not vote democratic and caused a Republican to be elected.
14 posted on 10/08/2007 5:40:12 PM PDT by gscc
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To: monomaniac

Pharisees killed Jesus. The NYTimes remind me of pharisical “group think” process. I would tell them that they should be ashamed of themselves.But they won’t.
I am an evangelical Christian, and a Pastor, and I won’t vote a third party at this critical juncture of the history of the Republic.
I guess if Dobson wants a Hillary Presidency he is likely to get it. He will have to live with two or three Supreme court justices who might be around for 30 years who not only will affirm Wade, but strengthen it.
Does that mean he should abandon his principle? Nope. Jesus said to give to Rome the things that belong to Rome and the things to God that belong to him. You sometimes have look at the broader wide scope. There is a theological term for it...”the teliological suspension of the ethical” it means for the greater good of society you temporarily change a course for the benefit of the society. The best known example of this was Dietrich Bonhoeffer who was a Biblical pacifist who left the security of teaching in New York to go back to his native Germany where he became involved in a plot to kill Hitler. He failed. Was arrested and was hung by the gestapo six weeks before the allies liberated his camp.


15 posted on 10/08/2007 5:40:52 PM PDT by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: donna
I have no problem with that formula.

Do you think God wants 3 more Ruth Ginsburgs on the court so we can forget overturning Roe v Wade and try to overturn things such as partial birth abortion restrictions? Do you think He wants to divide the church with Ms. Hillary and the Democrats because Dr Dobson can't understand that he is petulantly willing to elect another Clinton much like Ross Perot did?

I have been a big supporter of Dobson. In this he has simply gotten it wrong.

16 posted on 10/08/2007 5:44:26 PM PDT by Lakeshark (Thank a member of the US armed forces for their sacrifice)
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To: monomaniac

A New York Times/CBS News poll shows white, evangelical Republicans agree with Dr. James Dobson.
-

in other words they will only support a conservative candidate unless he actually has a chance of winning.


17 posted on 10/08/2007 5:50:38 PM PDT by ari-freedom (I am for traditional moral values, a strong national defense, and free markets.)
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To: Lakeshark

I think God wants you to stand up for the babies, too.


18 posted on 10/08/2007 5:54:20 PM PDT by donna (Perhaps if republicans would adhere to the Bible’s first 10 Commandments they wouldn’t need an 11th.)
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To: gscc

I think there are a lot of secular repubs that really do want to change the party back to where it was before reagan.


19 posted on 10/08/2007 5:54:37 PM PDT by ari-freedom (I am for traditional moral values, a strong national defense, and free markets.)
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To: capt. norm

You’re exactly right about Divide and Conquer .
The MSM onslaught worked in ‘06 and it will work again , unless we stay united .


20 posted on 10/08/2007 5:55:15 PM PDT by Neu Pragmatist (Unite against Rudy ! - Vote Thompson ! - It's the only way to beat Hillary !)
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To: monomaniac

Look for the slimes to run positive Christian unifying stories if Rudy gets the nomination.


21 posted on 10/08/2007 5:57:30 PM PDT by Archon of the East (Universal Executive Power of the Law of Nature)
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To: monomaniac

What I don’t understand is this: Dobson is against Guiliani, against Thompson, I’m assuming against Romney? Who is he for???? It seems he’s left himself no option but a third party candidate because he’s already dismissed the top tier as unsuitable.


22 posted on 10/08/2007 5:57:46 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: donna
God Family Country That’s just the way it is.

I wonder how a guaranteed win for Hillary Clinton is serving God? She will appoint three pro-aborts to the supreme court.

23 posted on 10/08/2007 5:59:07 PM PDT by Mogollon
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To: Lakeshark

May I remind everyone that a few weeks ago, Ann Coulter when asked who she preferred as GOP nominee she said ANY GOP NOMINEE had to be prolife and against gun control and Rudy would really have to change his tune dramatically on those issues. What’s wrong with Dobson putting his foot down? The GOP has NO backbone, maybe a kick in the rear will do the GOP some good. I don’t think Dobson is self-serving in this one....time to take a deep breath and relax.


24 posted on 10/08/2007 6:00:16 PM PDT by Taggart_D
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To: Lakeshark
It is the Republican party that is leaving the Evangelical community. To be very honest it is becoming ever more difficult to differentiate the parties, whether it is the social issues, spending, etc. It seems to me that Souter, Stevens, O’Connor and Kennedy were nominated by Republicans that were supposedly pro-life. Two of these are part of the pro-abortion minority on the bench and the other two were almost as bad. Are you telling me that Giuliani, who favors abortion, will nominate a Supreme Court Justice that will overturn Roe?
25 posted on 10/08/2007 6:00:33 PM PDT by gscc
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To: Lakeshark
It is the Republican party that is leaving the Evangelical community. To be very honest it is becoming ever more difficult to differentiate the parties, whether it is the social issues, spending, etc. It seems to me that Souter, Stevens, O’Connor and Kennedy were nominated by Republicans that were supposedly pro-life. Two of these are part of the pro-abortion minority on the bench and the other two were almost as bad. Are you telling me that Giuliani, who favors abortion, will nominate a Supreme Court Justice that will overturn Roe?
26 posted on 10/08/2007 6:00:57 PM PDT by gscc
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To: Mogollon

If God wants to stop it, He will.


27 posted on 10/08/2007 6:02:12 PM PDT by donna (Perhaps if republicans would adhere to the Bible’s first 10 Commandments they wouldn’t need an 11th.)
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To: gscc

Politics and principle don’t always dance well together, one always has to lead the other.

As for me, I cannot forsake my principles for pragmatism and this may just more rapidly precipitate the coming amicable divorce that’s already brewing. There are certain principles for which there can be no compromise:

1. Excessive taxation (theft)- are we really principled when we stand for a little less theft as republicans. Not me, I’d slash the federal spending by 65% if I could. Will RudiMcThomsoney?

2. Abortion - The pro-life movement doesn’t believe someone has a “choice” to kill someone - penumbra’s aside.

3. Gay marriage - You’re either for it or against it and you think it matters or it doesn’t.

Etc etc.

Republicans have been retreating for years and will continue, just as we did in the 30’s. Want proof - look at the 3 TRILLION dollar budget floating up there in the den of theives called the Congress. We republicans really made principled stands on the average taxpayers money didn’t we! Republicans shouldn’t puff their chests out to big because they reduced the rate of spending increase from 10% down to 6%. What COURAGE. At least FDR, LBJ and Hillary had/have the courage of their convictions. They intended and intend to bring in socialism. Do you think RudiMcThomsoney will stand forcefully on the issues I listed above and stop the move towards socialism - hardly.

Prediction: If by some odd chance that one of them wins, as typical with republicans, I can already hear RudiMcThomsoney pontificate how they won one for the average American by “forcing” the democratically held congress to only increase the federal budget by 7% instead of the 10% they wanted. And as the frogs in the kettle we are, the heat will increase another 10 degrees.

I say lets get the inevitable over with. I dare say that had the new media been around in the 30’s, we’d have been the North United States and the South United States then.


28 posted on 10/08/2007 6:04:56 PM PDT by mek1959
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To: monomaniac
Dr. Dobson has taken a beating in the media for promising to vote only for a candidate who shares his basic values, even if that means supporting a third-party candidate.

He's a damn fool. Based on his recent pronouncements, he wouldn't have supported Reagan because he had been divorced.

It's time to stop listening to preachers and acting like independent, free-thinking conservatives.

As the Gipper once said, if we agree on 80% of the issues, we are united.

29 posted on 10/08/2007 6:05:18 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: dawn53

Dobson’s on H & C right now.

He is keeping a door open for Romeny.

I can’t believe this- but he’s quite willing to give the White House to Hillary.


30 posted on 10/08/2007 6:05:36 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: the invisib1e hand

>>what is this, a loss-leader to boost their credibility?

New York Times Poll: most people fall down, not up.<<

The NYT is hoping against hope that Dobson crowd will “Nader” the Republican nominee.

And they are playing right into it by spending their time threatening to walk instead of working together to get a conservative nominated.

It is not at all unlikely the Perot, Nader and Dobson will be remembered together.

OF COURSE, we shouldn’t support abortion. Conservatives have never supported abortion, why would we start now?

But the primaries haven’t even started - this is the time to work instead of focusing on taking the ball and going home.


31 posted on 10/08/2007 6:06:23 PM PDT by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: monomaniac
Evangelicals need to go back and read about all the imperfect people that became God's greatest servants: Moses was a murder, David was an adulterer and murderer, Mary Magdalene an adultress, etc., etc.,

I don't want Rudy as the nominee either but I'm pragmatic enough to vote for him rather than let 'She Who Must Not be Named' win.

32 posted on 10/08/2007 6:06:26 PM PDT by Mogollon
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To: monomaniac
Liberals have no problem accepting incremental change. They will even accept short term set backs in the interest of achieving overall success. Conservative evangelicals cannot do this.

This will ultimately be their undoing. Many place their hopes in political institutions rather than God. They are engaged in politics which invariably involves compromise and negotiations. If one's principles trump one's politics, you will be frustrated in success and frustrated by defeat.

If one wants to play the political game, one has to play by political rules. You have to WIN elections to have a place at the table. If you consistently lose and maintain your principles you have nothing and will get nothing out of the political game. You become irrelevant.

Dobson and other evangelical who bolt and cause the GOP to lose will become less not more relevant.

33 posted on 10/08/2007 6:08:26 PM PDT by Don'tMessWithTexas
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To: monomaniac

Dobson on Hannity tonight....Hannity trying to convince Dobson is A OK. LMAO. Not happening Sean.


34 posted on 10/08/2007 6:10:28 PM PDT by Kimberly GG (Support Duncan Hunter in YOUR State....http://duncanhunter.meetup.com/1/)
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To: SE Mom

What did Dobson say about Romeny? I missed that part.


35 posted on 10/08/2007 6:11:02 PM PDT by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense? Don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: Mogollon

My pragmatism does not extend to voting for an abortionist. Sorry about yours.


36 posted on 10/08/2007 6:11:02 PM PDT by gscc
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To: Kevmo
He just told Sean Hannity he won’t back Fred.
37 posted on 10/08/2007 6:11:35 PM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: Kimberly GG

Dobson on Hannity tonight....Hannity trying to convince Dobson that GUILIANI is A OK. LMAO. Not happening Sean.


38 posted on 10/08/2007 6:11:35 PM PDT by Kimberly GG (Support Duncan Hunter in YOUR State....http://duncanhunter.meetup.com/1/)
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To: SE Mom
Let's see what's better....a guy who is with us on about 80 to 85% of what matters or get a witch who is with us on maybe 5% of what matters?

BTW, I am a Bible believing conservative evangelical and I like Dobson. But he does not speak for me and I resent any so-called christian leader who presumes to do so.

39 posted on 10/08/2007 6:12:11 PM PDT by Don'tMessWithTexas
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To: dmw

Actually- that was a reference on my part to something he said the other day when he interviewed Dobson on his radio show.

He clearly left the door open for Romney.


40 posted on 10/08/2007 6:12:35 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: monomaniac

Are we now trusting the NYT to define an “evangelical?”

Basically, they take those who agree with Dobson, and say they are “evangelicals.” The rest of us don’t qualify.


41 posted on 10/08/2007 6:13:11 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Kimberly GG

“Dobson on Hannity tonight....Hannity trying to convince Dobson is A OK. LMAO. Not happening Sean”

You mean Hannity is trying to convince Dobson that Rudy is A OK?


42 posted on 10/08/2007 6:13:35 PM PDT by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense? Don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: Don'tMessWithTexas

By nominating Giuliani it is you who will break the coalition. You know what nominating an abortion supporter will do and you are advocating it anyway.


43 posted on 10/08/2007 6:14:28 PM PDT by gscc
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To: Kimberly GG

Dobson on Hannity tonight....Hannity trying to convince Dobson that GUILIANI is A OK. LMAO. Not happening Sean

And he WON’t support Fred either!

Sean whining Hitlery will win, Hitlery will win...Everybody’s Scaredy Scaredy pants of Hitlery....geesh.

Dobson NOT backing down.


44 posted on 10/08/2007 6:14:55 PM PDT by Kimberly GG (Support Duncan Hunter in YOUR State....http://duncanhunter.meetup.com/1/)
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To: Don'tMessWithTexas

Samuel Johnston:
• “It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]


45 posted on 10/08/2007 6:15:15 PM PDT by donna (Perhaps if republicans would adhere to the Bible’s first 10 Commandments they wouldn’t need an 11th.)
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To: Don'tMessWithTexas

In my opinion- Dobson’s gone way over the top.

Every time I listen to him I become more angry.

Dobson says he knows it’s a difficult situation- but he’s lived his live on principles and he won’t stop now.

And yet he understands that this very attitude and resulting votes will give us Hillary. THEN where will he be with his principles? Satisfied, but with MORE aborted babies.


46 posted on 10/08/2007 6:17:03 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: Brilliant
I am sure that Dr. Dobson does not expect all to agree with him, and time will bare that fact out, Evangelicals are not political idiots.

They will never participate in the election of Hill and Bill for another 2 terms.

Never.

47 posted on 10/08/2007 6:17:27 PM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: SE Mom

Thanks for clarifying that.


48 posted on 10/08/2007 6:17:44 PM PDT by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense? Don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: Kimberly GG

I agree with Dobson on sticking to principles, if that means Hildebeast wins, that also means that the Republicans who ran had no core principles.

Rudy peed in the NRA face, and now we are supposed to buy a conversion to principles?

Relativism is a Hillary trait, it doesn’t suit us.


49 posted on 10/08/2007 6:19:12 PM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ No more miller brewing products, pass it on....)
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To: Kimberly GG

I don’t always go along with Sean- but in this instance- I completely agree with him.

Split the GOP vote in the general election and we WILL get Hillary.

And just what kinds of justices will she nominate for SCOTUS?

THINK ABOUT IT.


50 posted on 10/08/2007 6:19:56 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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