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Look Again At The Frost Facts...And Don't Back Down
freeper research, Baltimore Sun, Others ^ | 10-11-07 | icwhatudo

Posted on 10/11/2007 11:19:24 AM PDT by icwhatudo

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Some other things that have not been answered:

Why are neither the family home nor their commercial property listed on tax forms as being their primary residence?

Why is the family home listed as the "office" of the Limited Liability Corporation that owns the commercial property?

Why, if the family is so quick to announce how much they earn each year in every interview they do, does the family refuse the Baltimore Sun's request to examine their tax return?

Hmmmmmm, makes me wonder why the Baltimore Sun is not being accused of "attacking a 12 year old boy"?

1 posted on 10/11/2007 11:19:38 AM PDT by icwhatudo
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To: icwhatudo

I’d also like to say something to Mr. and Mrs. Frost. Maybe a media type reading this can get this to them:

I want you to know that I’m truly sorry for what happened to your family. I hope your kids continue with their recovery and I hope your business improves to the point where you will not need the S-CHIP program anymore. I’m sure you are not pleased at my interest in your finances but at the same time I hope you will see there is absolutely no attack on your son contained in my post.

You made a choice to become public figures, to allow your son to be coached to give the democrat response to president Bush’s veto of the expansion of S-CHIP. An expansion that would wind up covering my family as well. As I understand it, his veto does not take away your family’s coverage. Overturning that veto would mean my family would get that coverage.

In my opinion this would take our country further down the road to government run health care. We both have seen what the government has done running the public schools and that is why we both have opted for private schooling.

Your family opted to appear in the Baltimore Sun as a model of the type of family that currently uses S-CHIP, mine could be a model of the type that that it shouldn’t be expanded to. We have a nice home, 2 cars, all 4 kids in private school and are able to spend 2 weeks at the beach each year. I just don’t think its fair for other people to have to pay for my families health care. My wife and I would love to run our own business, but our decisions on employment are usually focused on who provides the best health care first, what we want to do second.

I thought it was important to examine what families using S-CHIP in its current form were like so we could understand if there really was a need to expand it to higher income families. You choose to be that family in the spotlight and I’m sorry you now have to face this examination.

Soon the media trucks will be gone and life will be back to somewhat normal. I keep you and your family in my prayers.


2 posted on 10/11/2007 11:21:29 AM PDT by icwhatudo (The rino borg...is resistance futile?)
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To: icwhatudo
I know nothing to little on the question I am about to ask as I haven't had such a thing happen.

But is someone is injured in a car accident, aren't medical costs from said accident covered by either their car insurance, or the other parties car insurance?

Did the Frost's fail to have insurance on their car as they are legally required to have?

3 posted on 10/11/2007 11:27:11 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: icwhatudo

IIRC, concrete counter tops have been featured on This Old House. They even did a feature on how they are made at the old Brooklyn Navy Yard in a factory built as part of the commercialization of that facility. This is not dad pouring ready-mix in a form made out of plywood and 2x4’s. It is a very nice looking product with a high recycle content (part of the show was looking at all the ground up beer bottles used to make the countertop). So don’t let “concrete” make it sound cheaper that it was. TOH does very little on the cheap.


4 posted on 10/11/2007 11:29:05 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Fred Dalton Thompson for President)
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To: icwhatudo

Excellent work, bump!


5 posted on 10/11/2007 11:30:20 AM PDT by JPJones
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To: Phantom Lord

Read on a thread yesterday. Father lost control of his car on “black ice” and hit a tree. I have no idea what type of insurance he was holding at that time.


6 posted on 10/11/2007 11:32:08 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: icwhatudo

Need to see an accident report to verify if the ‘black ice’ is even true.


7 posted on 10/11/2007 11:32:38 AM PDT by Son House ($$Proud Member of Vast Right Wing, Out To Lower Your Tax Rates For More Opportunities.$$)
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To: Phantom Lord
Did the Frost's fail to have insurance on their car as they are legally required to have?

I've seen no assertions either way on whether the Frost's vehicle insurance met the legal minimum requirements.

That said, they could have had much more than the legal minimun and it still would not have covered medical treatments for two people with severe brain injuries.

And the other "car" was a tree.

8 posted on 10/11/2007 11:34:49 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Phantom Lord
I looked into that a little yesterday. Maryland requires certain minimum coverages - described here. The MAIF is apparently the insurer of last resort but the stated coverages pertaining to injured occupants are:

PERSONAL INJURY PROTECTION (PIP): Covers medical expenses, including funeral expenses, for you and your passengers who sustain bodily injury and the loss of income of an injured income producer, up to $2,500 per person. The purpose of the provision for PIP is to assure financial compensation to victims of motor vehicle accidents without regard to the fault of the named insured or other persons entitled to PIP benefits. Personal Injury Protection can be waived at a reduction in premium but such a waiver does not apply to a relative under the age of 16 while residing in your household.

So if the Frosts had the minimum mandated coverage, they would have only received $2,500 per injured family member. If their car/truck is new, the lien-holder might require other levels of coverage.

9 posted on 10/11/2007 11:35:50 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze
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To: Son House
Need to see an accident report to verify if the ‘black ice’ is even true.

Especially as we've seen that the weather conditions in the days prior to the accident did not lend themselves to producing black ice.

10 posted on 10/11/2007 11:37:11 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: icwhatudo
Being a Canadian, I don’t know a lot about the S-CHIP issues, beyond what I've learned on FR; but, I do know about a government health care monopoly.

Ironically, if S-CHIP were expanded — or if comprehensive government medical care is introduced; families paying at least an average amount of taxes will pay more for their government insurance than they would have for private insurance.

If the Frosts had been paying higher taxes for S-CHIP, then they would not have had that money available for counter-tops and private schools. If they had chosen to forgo those luxuries in favour of buying insurance — they’d be in the same position as they would have been with the government program. Actually, they’d be better off — because they’d have more choices and probably lower costs with private insurance.

11 posted on 10/11/2007 11:37:54 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Son House
I don’t think it makes one whit of a difference if it was black ice or not.

Thats just silly.

12 posted on 10/11/2007 11:38:55 AM PDT by JRochelle ( Soros is evil.)
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To: Phantom Lord
I'll take a stab at this one but don't the the actual answers

But is someone is injured in a car accident, aren't medical costs from said accident covered by either their car insurance, or the other parties car insurance?

Did the Frost's fail to have insurance on their car as they are legally required to have?

It was a single car accident so only the families car was involved. This is important because the legally required insurance is only liability which covers other drivers if you hit them. Since this was a single car accident liability insurance would not have covered it, only comprehensive/collision would have.

Now for the sake of arguement they did have comp/coll coverage chances are they went for the minimum coverage which would put medical at about 50K I think without looking it up. Even if they had a higher coverage though auto insurance would not have covered it all and health insurance would have had to pick up the slack.

From the articles sounds like they have an SUV, living in a good part of town, in Maryland. I don't know the year and make but chances are it was a newer model. In order to only have liability insurance they would have had to either pay for the SUV in cash OR financed it extremely short term (IE 36 month paid off in 6 months for credit purposes only). Both of those cases involve a bunch of cash available that also could have been used to pay for health insurance.

Another option to all this of course is who the car actually belonged to. If the car (like the house) was registered as a business vehicle and the auto insurance was business coverage then an accident in the car during non-business use would also not be covered by the auto-insurance.

Not saying either of these is correct, just saying these are a few possibilities. I'm sure there are more out there as well.

13 posted on 10/11/2007 11:44:45 AM PDT by Domandred (Eagles soar, but unfortunately weasels never get sucked into jet engines)
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To: icwhatudo
Your original post was careful and, with this post, you've cleared up a small error and noticed a new concrete fact.

Any further criticism of your work on this Frost story will be ideologically motivated.

Well done, sir.

14 posted on 10/11/2007 11:45:34 AM PDT by snarks_when_bored
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To: icwhatudo

You are doing a great job! One guy taking on the Rat Party, George Soros, HillaryMatters, and a ton of nutroots. I hope that doesn’t make you nervous. LOL! However, I think all the shrieking on the Left means you have hit home. Don’t worry, you have a powerful ally on your side: The Truth!


15 posted on 10/11/2007 11:45:47 AM PDT by TheDon (The DemocRAT party is the party of TREASON! Overthrow the terrorist's congress!)
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To: Phantom Lord
Did the Frost's fail to have insurance on their car as they are legally required to have?

Excellent question.

16 posted on 10/11/2007 11:49:11 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Phantom Lord
But is someone is injured in a car accident, aren't medical costs from said accident covered by either their car insurance, or the other parties car insurance?

To the limits of the policy, which depends on the level of protection the policy owner purchased.

It could be as little as a few thousand dollars or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Depends on how much the insured was willing to pay, but anybody who refuses to purchase health insurance is probably going to be pretty stingy on the amount of automotive insurance they purchase as well.

17 posted on 10/11/2007 11:51:02 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: TheDon
$40,000 in tuition on $45,000 in income. IRS please pick up the blue courtesy phone. PLEASE!
18 posted on 10/11/2007 11:53:20 AM PDT by 70th Division (If we loose the Republic we have lost it all.)
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To: DuncanWaring

A catastrophic insurance policy (not health insurance) would only cost $472/per month.

I still feel that the assets should be counted toward eligibilty for all government programs. I am for “means testing.” Once assets (included in networth, which means wealth) have been exhausted then help should be available.
It isn’t right to take others property (through taxation) to preserve their property.


19 posted on 10/11/2007 11:53:47 AM PDT by griswold3 (Al queda is guilty of hirabah (war against society) Penalty is death.)
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To: icwhatudo

Keep fighting the good fight, icwhatudo!! Thanks for your research into all of this. The fact of the matter is—the main point of this whole story is that the Democrats used a little kid to hide behind and attack President Bush when he vetoed the BullSCHIP thing—THEY should have done THEIR research better and found a ‘real’ poverty stricken family to front their attacks, and not this Frost family, who may or may not be innocent in this story, who knows. I sincerely doubt that, though, the Frosts know they could have had insurance BEFORE the children were hurt, and they chose not to have it...they got help from the SCHIP program (which hasn’t been destroyed by the veto, for Pete’s sake) when, if all the facts were revealed, they probably didn’t qualify for it—let the MSM and tax-spending libs complain all they want. You uncovered facts. They don’t like that, not one little bit. Hang in there!


20 posted on 10/11/2007 11:54:08 AM PDT by pillut48 (CJ in TX --Soccer Mom and proud RUSH REPUBLICAN! WIN, FRED, WIN!!!)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
I think the original story said the mother was driving the “evil” gas guzzling SUV, not the father.
21 posted on 10/11/2007 11:54:25 AM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: icwhatudo
Concrete follow-up: Concrete's Changing Colors, By: Keith Pandolfi, This Old House magazine, July/August 2007. "... Expect to pay $75 to $150 per square foot, about on par with granite. ..."
22 posted on 10/11/2007 11:54:40 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Fred Dalton Thompson for President)
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To: icwhatudo
Does Free Republic have an annual Buckhead trophy? If it does, then you are in the lead for the 2007 one.
23 posted on 10/11/2007 11:56:56 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (May the heirs of Charles Martel and Jan Sobieski rise up again to defend Europe.)
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To: icwhatudo

Excellent posting...

I was just thinking....I pay about $500 a month toward my 401k. Sooo....with all this big government talk, I should just stop paying that and demand that my pension is paid by our most wonderful govmint. /s


24 posted on 10/11/2007 12:00:39 PM PDT by trappedinnj
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To: icwhatudo
"A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job"

I'd just avoid the entire remolding thing if I were you. A decent carpenter with the right shop equipment can build his own kitchen cabinets at 10th or less than the cost of store bought cabinets. This guy is a carpenter and has the shop tools so it's easily evening / weekend work for the cost of some lumber and hardware. Same with the concrete counters. They don't have to be store bought. A good DYIer can pour them himself.

No doubt with the real estate they own, this family's assets are much larger than a 45k yearly taxable income would typically indicate, but the kitchen remolding job means nothing in that regard.

25 posted on 10/11/2007 12:03:06 PM PDT by Ditto (Global Warming: The 21st Century's Snake Oil)
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To: Domandred
“Since this was a single car accident liability insurance would not have covered it, only comprehensive/collision would have.”

It depends on the state you live in. In Michigan under the “no fault” law all (100%) of the medical costs would be paid, plus lost wages are covered.

It doesn’t matter who is at fault.

26 posted on 10/11/2007 12:05:37 PM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: icwhatudo
Look, you've done a public service here.

At a minimum you have raised the issue of the propriety of folks with significant net worth getting public assistance.

My brother has significantly less net worth than this family of 6 and yet he not only pays for his own health insurance but he, like so many others, has to contribute to the health insurance of others with higher net worths. It is the height of absurdity.

You, my friend, have nothing to apologize for or be defensive about.

Hopefully some good will come out of this kerfluffle like asset tests and the requirement for those taking public money to supply the public with balance sheets and income statements.

Having said that I wish nothing but the best for the injured children in their efforts at recovery. It really isn't very hard to separate the children from the politics if one has half a brain, which of course rules out that half of America prone to use children to advance their politics.

27 posted on 10/11/2007 12:06:35 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: icwhatudo
So the funny thing is, according to these links, concrete counters are actually MORE expensive than granite

Absolutely correct. Granite began fading as a preference for many up-scalers who were putting in new kitchens when it became more publicized that granite can actually be pourous enough to hold bacteria. Over the past three or four years people have been opting for sealed concrete and other faux granite look-alike materials. And yeah, it's often a little more expenensive.

In any event, that's a nice kitchen the Frosts decided to put in rather than buy their own health insurance.

I keep you and your family in my prayers.

You're a lot more compassionate than I am. As far as I'm concerned, for helping the Democrats in their agenda to turn America into a Euro-style, secular-socialist welfare state the Frosts can all drop dead. Screw them.

28 posted on 10/11/2007 12:11:41 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Phantom Lord
Did the Frost's fail to have insurance on their car as they are legally required to have?

PIP in Maryland has a low minimum requirement, about 2500.00 and I think I read the maximium amount of PIP is 20,000. Nowhere near enough to pay for the injuries these poor kids suffered.

But insurance is an interesting point. I'm sure Mr Frost has insured his home, his auto and his investment property but he chose not to purchase health insurance for his children which he could have at a reasonable rate.

Perhaps the public should kick in for his property insurance as well?

29 posted on 10/11/2007 12:13:46 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: icwhatudo
By the way, from another recent thread:

Mr. Frost, also 26, is known as Halsey. He owns Frostworks, a woodworking and furniture-design studio in Baltimore. His mother, Randy Frost, is a quilt artist. His father is the deputy director of design and construction for the City University of New York in Manhattan. The bridegroom’s late grandfather Frederick G. Frost Jr. was an architect responsible for several public buildings in New York, including Martin Luther King High School in Manhattan.

Obviously, the entire greedy extended Frost family would rather reach into the wallets of complete strangers than help each other out. This is clearly not an impoverished family. They should be ashamed of themselves.

30 posted on 10/11/2007 12:22:42 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: icwhatudo
"I hope your business improves to the point where you will not need the S-CHIP program anymore."

So, you ARE trying to deny them access to S-CHIP! /S

Nice job icwhatudo. With the MSM little more than a shill for the left, it's nice that a citizen takes the time to pick up their slack.

31 posted on 10/11/2007 12:23:36 PM PDT by ETCS
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To: icwhatudo

Good investigative work, the kind that newspapers and journalists USE to do


32 posted on 10/11/2007 12:29:04 PM PDT by italianquaker (Is there anything Ron Paul doesn't blame the USA for?)
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To: icwhatudo
Well Sir,

The only reason you are taking heat from the liberals is because they were caught in a lie. One they can’t defend or spin their way out of!

Their voting base is mostly elite morons with a guilt complex and illiterate poor on public assistance.

They can’t sell this family to most of their base as being poor. It just wont work and they have to lash out at someone.

The more they try to spin, the more people will search the facts. The liberals are going to lose on this one.

33 posted on 10/11/2007 12:34:41 PM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: icwhatudo; kristinn

Ping to new Frost thread.


34 posted on 10/11/2007 12:36:17 PM PDT by palmer
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To: Beagle8U
“mother was driving”
Yeah. I think you’re right. I read an awful lotta stuff since yesterday, and don’t remember for sure. I’d like to see the accident report regarding black ice.
35 posted on 10/11/2007 12:38:35 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: icwhatudo

Good work!

“Why is the family home listed as the “office” of the Limited Liability Corporation that owns the commercial property?”

I set up an LLC to buy a small commercial property and did the same thing. Since the LLC is formed before you buy (or close on purchase of) the property, you need your home address, not the building address that you are buying, as the ‘office’ of the registering agent of the LLC.

“Why, if the family is so quick to announce how much they earn each year in every interview they do, does the family refuse the Baltimore Sun’s request to examine their tax return? “

LOL. These guys should be Republicans!


36 posted on 10/11/2007 12:39:05 PM PDT by WOSG (I just wish freepers would bash Democrats as much as they bash Republicans)
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To: icwhatudo

If he lists his home as his business address, then I’m sure he takes a business (Schedule C) offset for the space used.

There are so many things that businesses can take off the top as expenses (utilities, labor, rent, mileage, equipment, supplies, etc.) that farmers regularly are seen in large homes, driving large, new vehicles and also reporting zero income.

Every family should declare itself a business. :>)


37 posted on 10/11/2007 12:40:35 PM PDT by xzins (If you will just agree to the murdering of your children, then we can win the presidency)
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To: icwhatudo
Bttt.

5.56mm

38 posted on 10/11/2007 12:42:02 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: icwhatudo
Sierra Hotel


39 posted on 10/11/2007 12:44:20 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: Lancey Howard

Let’s be serious. They are staunch dims, proud and arrogant about every handout received. Shame or even gratitude for handouts is not on the table. They are entitled to it because it’s not your money so be prepared to part with more of it. Thank HER that SHE trusts you with some small part of your earnings and assets.


40 posted on 10/11/2007 12:47:16 PM PDT by businessprofessor
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To: icwhatudo

great job


41 posted on 10/11/2007 12:50:41 PM PDT by RDTF (Proud member of the lunatic fringe)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Being a Canadian, I don’t know a lot about the S-CHIP issues

But you do know that my Hurricanes smacked around your Maple Leafs like a read headed stepchild and tonight Montreal is getting his brothers treatment.

42 posted on 10/11/2007 12:51:35 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: icwhatudo
Dropping out of Lurk & Link Mode for a rare bit of commentary- and compliments to you.

First, the one error you made was minor, and you noticed and corrected it.

I long for the day when the Jackal Pack Press is as meticulous.

You've done good work, and I, and others, appreciate it.

Note well- our "friends" on the Left reacted with silence at first-- because they'd been caught!

Then, the predictable attack the messenger, scream "Liar! Liar!" and dodging and weaving commenced- they hope to so shout over and muddy the waters that the average person will throw up their hands in despair.

It's not working- my formerly Democrat wife- who is very apolitical- is pissed-- I mean really pissed off at this smarmy, cynical use of injured children to justify picking her pocket.

Again, thank you.

43 posted on 10/11/2007 12:52:18 PM PDT by backhoe (Just a Merry-Hearted Keyboard PirateBoy, plunderin’ his way across the WWW…)
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To: icwhatudo

How does the IRS handle a $40k scholarship?


44 posted on 10/11/2007 12:59:09 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
” I’d like to see the accident report regarding black ice.”

I’d like to know why the SUV wasn’t in 4X4 if there were ice conditions?

If it wasn’t equipped with 4X4 in a northern climate, why drive an expensive, big ugly station-wagon?

Four wheel drive WILL prevent loss of control under ice conditions 99% of the time, and anyone that says they wont has never owned one, or didn’t put it in 4X4 before they hit ice!

45 posted on 10/11/2007 1:04:31 PM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: AppyPappy

“How does the IRS handle a $40k scholarship?”
“the family paid a lower tuition amount at the exclusive Park school due to financial aid. This does not change the fact they are still paying for private school, just at a lower rate, while others are paying for their kids health care costs.”


46 posted on 10/11/2007 1:06:40 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: icwhatudo

This all have been very enlightening. Thanks for covering it.


47 posted on 10/11/2007 1:09:26 PM PDT by jennyjenny
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To: Beagle8U
“why the SUV wasn’t in 4X4 if there were ice conditions?”
I hadn’t heard that. Are you sure? I’d sure like to see the report. Tried to find a way on Dogpile to no avail. Seems to me they should be available to the public.
48 posted on 10/11/2007 1:10:30 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

So is the scholarship considered income?


49 posted on 10/11/2007 1:12:37 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: AppyPappy

I don’t know! I’m a metaproctologist, not a tax lawyer!


50 posted on 10/11/2007 1:14:50 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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