Skip to comments.Why conservatives should condemn Ann Coulter (vanity)
Posted on 10/12/2007 3:26:26 PM PDT by ChicagoHebrew
I've seen a significant amount of support on this board for Ann Coulter's recent comments on CNBC. Let me explain why that support is misplaced:
First, as an initial matter, I don't think Coulter's comments about Jews needing to be "perfected" are offensive at all. As an observant Jew, I obviously don't agree with Coulter. But Coulter's remarks here clearly represent standard Christian belief, and it's wrong and intolerant to condemn someone for her basic religious beliefs (provided, of course, that those beliefs don't cause one to do things like blow up Israeli school children or crash airplanes into buildings).
That being said, Coulter said more than standard Christian dogma. In explaining why the 2004 GOP convention was "like heaven," Coulter said "People were happy. They're Christian. They're tolerant. They defend America." That's flatly wrong and blatantly offensive -- attendees at the GOP convention included Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, agnostics and adherents of several other faiths. In defining the Republican Convention (and, tacitly) the Republican Party as Christian-only, Coulter has done a tremendous disservice to Republicans and conservatives in general. The fact of the matter is that you don't have to be Christian to believe in things like small government, strong national security, legal fidelity to the constitution, and basic moral values. No one here should defend attempts to define conservatism or the Republican Party as limited to believing Christians. . .
As an aside, please don't let this thread be dominated with replies trying to "convince" me that Christianity is right. Suffice it to say that I have heard and rejected every single one of those arguments. But, as is the nature of being a 1% minority, I -- like most Jews -- get missionized quite frequently, which we find very irritating. Kind of like door-to-door salesmen who keep showing up a few times a week and don't always take a polite "no" for an answer.
It is my conviction, as a Christian, that Christians desire that all people become Christians, but, following the example of the Messiah, do not desire to compel or force anyone to believe as they do. Attempts of misguided Christians in the past to undertake forced conversions were precisely that, misguided, and contrary to the precepts of their faith.
When Messiah came, he was rejected by His chosen people, following the example of their secular leaders and chief rabbis. It was not his intent to overthrow the Roman occupiers, as the Jews desired, and restore Israel as a powerful kingdom to be feared and respected by its neighbors. This Jesus plainly told the Jews of his time. We find their rejection deeply regrettable, and wish it had been otherwise.
My fellow Americans, I have just signed legislation to outlaw Islam. The bombing began in October 2001.
If I were to adopt this writer's arguments about why Christian arguments are not attractive to him to my relatives' real old time religion, and why they shouldn't/couldn't be persuaded to be Jewish, I bet he'd think it was a tad offensive.
Well, nevermind, Jews are newcomers in this game.
Hey Bobster, most of the RINOs aren’t really Christian even if they say they are and attend the “best churches”. Conservative Buddhist/Hindu/Jewish/Taoist/Moslem/Bahai/etc. folks shouldn’t worry about the claims to the contrary.
She doesn't use obscure words when speaking publicly.
After every book, I've learned a couple dozen new words.
I understand how Ann’s comments might seem offensive. Please don’t let the media build a wedge to further divide Republicans and conservatives. The leftist media has already gained significant ground pitting Christians against one another and I pray we can prevent any further divisiveness. Thanks for posting your thoughts on this.
Nope, you didn’t make the sale.
I don’t think she should be condemned. She is out on the front lines taking the pies from the nut jobs for the rest of us.
If people don’t like what she says, they don’t have to read her or watch her on TV.
A thread with Ann Coulter in the title and it took 62 post before a picture.
Ann has figured out what most Conservatives have not, or simply refuse to admit: No matter WHAT you do or say, no matter how innocent, you will STILL be labeled by the jack-boot Left, so she goes nuclear much of the time. I love her an encourage her....
Oh yeah...ann the anti-semite...shtuping her jewish boyfriend...
Bleh...more media doesnt matter..
Sorry, if I owned Photoshop I'd get rid of that obscene asterisk at the bottom. This website has a number of similar posters that the left-wingers probably think are hilarious, but some of them are actually pretty great. Like this one:
If the word "condemn" is too strong we could settle for "criticizing" her for looking silly.
But the point is that if a friend makes a mistake, do you point it out to her, or do you just pat her on the head and tell her to keep doing it?
DEUTSCH: Let me ask you a question. Were going to get off strengths and weakness for a second. If you had your way, and all of your forget that any of them
COULTER: I like this.
DEUTSCH: are calculated marketing teases, and your dreams, which are genuine, came true having to do with immigration, having to do with womens with abortion what would this country look like?
COULTER: It would look like New York City during the Republican National Convention. In fact, thats what I think heaven is going to look like.
DEUTSCH: And what did that look like?
COULTER: Happy, joyful Republicans in the greatest city in the world.
DEUTSCH: No, no, no, no, but Im talking about this country. You dont want to make this country its not about Republicans. Im saying, what would the fabric of this country look like? Forget that the Republicans would be running the show.
COULTER: Well, everyone would root for America, the Democratic Party would look like [Sen.] Joe Lieberman [I-CT], the Republican Party would look like [Rep.] Duncan Hunter [R-CA]
DEUTSCH: No, no, no, I dont want Im not talking about politically the landscape. What would our would we be safer? Would people be happier? Would they be more
COULTER: We would be a lot safer.
DEUTSCH: Would there be more tolerance? Would there be would women be happier, would the races get along better? The Ann Coulter subscription prescription. What tell me what would be different in our fabric of country, because
COULTER: Well, all of those things.
DEUTSCH: I can give I can give you an argument there would be more divisiveness, that there would be more hate
COULTER: Oh, no.
DEUTSCH: that there would be a bigger difference between the rich and the poor, a lot of other tell me what why this would be a better world? Lets give you Im going to give you say this is your show.
COULTER: Well, OK, take the Republican National Convention. People were happy. Theyre Christian. Theyre tolerant. They defend America, they
DEUTSCH: Christian so we should be Christian? It would be better if we were all Christian?
DEUTSCH: We should all be Christian?
COULTER: Yes. Would you like to come to church with me, Donny?
DEUTSCH: So I should not be a Jew, I should be a Christian, and this would be a better place?
COULTER: Well, you could be a practicing Jew, but youre not.
DEUTSCH: I actually am. Thats not true. I really am. But so we would be better if we were - if people if there were no Jews, no Buddhists
COULTER: Whenever Im harangued by
DEUTSCH: in this country? You cant believe that.
COULTER: you know, liberals on diversity
DEUTSCH: Here you go again.
COULTER: No, its true. I give all of these speeches at megachurches across America, and the one thing thats really striking about it is how utterly, completely diverse they are, and completely unself-consciously. You walk past a mixed-race couple in New York, and its like they have a chip on their shoulder. Theyre just waiting for somebody to say something, as if anybody would. And
DEUTSCH: I dont agree with that. I dont agree with that at all. Maybe you have the chip looking at them. I see a lot of interracial couples, and I dont see any more or less chips there either way. Thats erroneous.
COULTER: No. In fact, there was an entire Seinfeld episode about Elaine and her boyfriend dating because they wanted to be a mixed-race couple, so youre lying.
DEUTSCH: Oh, because of some Seinfeld episode? OK.
COULTER: But yeah, I think thats reflective of whats going on in the culture, but it is completely striking that at these huge megachurches the idea that, you know, the more Christian you are, the less tolerant you would be is preposterous.
DEUTSCH: That isnt what I said, but you said I should not we should just throw Judaism away and we should all be Christians, then, or
COULTER: Well, its a lot easier. Its kind of a fast track.
COULTER: Yeah. You have to obey.
DEUTSCH: You cant possibly believe that.
DEUTSCH: You cant possibly youre too educated, you cant youre like my friend in
COULTER: Do you know what Christianity is? We believe your religion, but you have to obey.
DEUTSCH: No, no, no, but I mean
COULTER: We have the fast-track program.
DEUTSCH: Why dont I put you with the head of Iran? I mean, come on. You cant believe that.
COULTER: The head of Iran is not a Christian.
DEUTSCH: No, but in fact, Lets wipe Israel
COULTER: I dont know if youve been paying attention.
DEUTSCH: Lets wipe Israel off the earth. I mean, what, no Jews?
COULTER: No, we think we just want Jews to be perfected, as they say.
DEUTSCH: Wow, you didnt really say that, did you?
COULTER: Yes. That is what Christianity is. We believe the Old Testament, but ours is more like Federal Express. You have to obey laws. We know were all sinners
DEUTSCH: In my old days, I would have argued when you say something absurd like that, theres no
COULTER: Whats absurd?
DEUTSCH: Jews are going to be perfected. Im going to go off and try to perfect myself
COULTER: Well, thats what the New Testament says.
DEUTSCH: Ann Coulter, author of If Democrats Had Any Brains, Theyd Be Republicans, and if Ann Coulter had any brains, she would not say Jews need to be perfected. Im offended by that personally. And well have more Big Idea when we come back.
DEUTSCH: Welcome back to The Big Idea. During the break, Ann said she wanted to explain her last comment. So Im going to give her a chance. So you dont think that was offensive?
COULTER: No. Im sorry. It is not intended to be. I dont think you should take it that way, but that is what Christians consider themselves: perfected Jews. We believe the Old Testament. As you know from the Old Testament, God was constantly getting fed up with humans for not being able to, you know, live up to all the laws. What Christians believe this is just a statement of what the New Testament is is that thats why Christ came and died for our sins. Christians believe the Old Testament. You dont believe our testament.
DEUTSCH: You said your exact words were, Jews need to be perfected. Those are the words out of your mouth.
COULTER: No, Im saying thats what a Christian is.
DEUTSCH: But thats what you said dont you see how hateful, how anti-Semitic
DEUTSCH: How do you not see? Youre an educated woman. How do you not see that?
COULTER: That isnt hateful at all.
DEUTSCH: But thats even a scarier thought. OK
COULTER: No, no, no, no, no. I dont want you being offended by this. This is what Christians consider themselves, because our testament is the continuation of your testament. You know that. So we think Jews go to heaven. I mean, [Rev. Jerry] Falwell himself said that, but you have to follow laws. Ours is Christ died for our sins. We consider ourselves perfected Christians. For me to say that for you to become a Christian is to become a perfected Christian is not offensive at all.
You’re in contention for stupidest post of the thread. But you have a lot of competition.
Ann gets off bigtime on driving the leftists and their media cohorts into seizure. I don’t mean that she wants to barb them in the side as Rush does... I mean Ann wants her daily mission to be driving a stake through the heart of every evilcrat... and she is as unrelenting as the Colorado River.
She cares not if she upsets those on the right... she thinks she is doing the right a favor by turning over the lake to keep it from stagnation. An example... Thursday's Fox and Friends invited Ann on to barker her book. When pressed if she supported any candidate at this point... she paid kudo’s to Hunter and said, “No... I think for now that I will just attack each one of them... one at a time”.
I am not saying that what she does is proper decorum... or even socially acceptable... but Ann’s vision of her mission is not so unlike that of Joan of Arc. Not in a religious way, but in the depth of her commitment and confidence that she is on the right side of this War. She sees herself a playing a vital role in America... she uses stinging hyperbole and sarcasm to make points... but the underlying truth is that she lives to War with the left... she truly despises them... and she will not back down.
She was at UT doing an appearance, when a leftie anarchist started attacking her in the vile satanic type rant that answer and code pink employ... She walked toward the POS giving him a barrage of scalding truth... she then asked, “Are there any Republican men in here that will help a damsel in distress”? Four guys got up... dragged the wimp outside... and came back in and sat down with most satisfied expression on their faces. Ann knighted them and continued... that is Ann Coulter. She is not anti-anything but liberal... if she dates one... she is in it for the sex and counter intel.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
Who did that? Could you post a link to a source please?
“Im shocked at some of the replies on this thread.”
Indeed. So sad.
Yeah, talking about your religion should be Verboten!! Don’t want to offend anyone, just like the old Soviet Union.
Pray for W and Our Troops
Think about this.....Ann Coulter supports Israel MORE than quite a number of so called “Jews.”
How do her supporters differ from the "moderate Muslims" who keep their mouths shut while their radical Islamic brothers commit jihad against Jews and anyone non-Islamic? Again, not very much. Except that, in this case, some of her Christian supporters aren't even keeping silent; they are openly supporting her comments, saying they agree with her.
I thought Christians were supposed to be the Jews' best friend. And yet, here they are, turning on them. This whole thing is disgusting. Christians should be ashamed to support her stupid comments.
“She would like the Jews to disappear in the same way that the Muslims would.
The only statement he did have a problem with was Ann characterizing the GOP convention as Christian. Although I think his anger over that statement is a little over the top (it was probably 95% Christian so for someone to characterize it that way may be understandable) I think anyone who is a non-Christian could be a little put off by it because it looks like they are invisible or that they and their own efforts dont matter.
It was a joke.
People who come from demographic groups that are overwhelmingly liberal or democrat (Jews, Blacks, University students, etc.) put up with a lot of crap from their own or from those in their environments for being conservative. Some have to hide it. The least we can do is try to remember they are part of our group and throw them a bone once in a while.
MY REVISION: People who come from demographic groups that are overwhelmingly CHRISTIAN put up with a lot of crap from their own or from those in their environments for being conservative. AMOST ALL THINK THAT THEY have to hide it. The least we can do is try to GIVE THEM HOPE BY SUPPORTING SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HIDE HER VIEWS AND DOESN'T PUT UP WITH CRAP.
I dont agree that Ann should be condemned for this but a gentle reminder that the GOP, though primarily Christian, is not entirely Christian and acknowledging so in public could go a long way in helping our esprit d'corps.
You should be pleased with the responses of the many non-Christians on this thread supporting Ann. I presume that you were not "shocked" by their comments.
Thank you for expanding upon your views.
"Be ye therefore 'perfected'"
I can’t tell if you agree with me or not.
Are you defending the Godless, soulless RINOs who embarrass our party with nothing but money?
As a Christian and after listening to her in context; I have no problem with her statements. To be ‘perfected’ is a common expression in theology because ALL have fallen short ALL have sinned, BUT through Christ Jesus, we are PERFECTED in God’s sight. Simple enough if you ask me -my 2cents anyway
That’s utterly bizarre.
Why not practice a little religious “charity” and give some one a break. She is doing her job when she talks like that. For crying out loud it is about freaking time people just let people be instead of each trying to make everyone else like themselves.
If all people were the same we would only need one.
Are the pics posted?
“Theologically, I agree with her. Politically, it was stupid.”
Reading the transcript, Deutsch pressed her to describe her dream, her ideal America. She then went to the Republican convention in NY, and called it Christian, since obviously, the majority of Republicans are Christian. That was not a slam at Jews, Mr. C.H., just a statistic fact.
Deutsch, pressing for controversy, asked her if she thought the US would be better if everyone were Christian. As a Christian she said yes.
That was a pure religious answer, not a political one. She was not making a political point. She was giving a genuine, sincere answer.
I can honestly believe you name.
You should read the other one about Ann. Phew. This one’s mild.
(so I can't say "Welcome to FR!" ;-)
I didn't happen to see Ann Coulter's remarks -- could you point me to a clip, so I can think it over for myself before responding either way?
If she *is* a professing Christian I hope she wouldn't be openly engaging in premarital sex.
And if she is, why isn't the lefty press excoriating her for the hypocrisy?
My dear hubby doesn’t like her at all and I do, and I hold the remote (LOL).
Go back to post 116 and read ONLY what Ann said.
Christians support Jews and Israel more than many Jews do. The Fellowship of Christians and Jews is an example of how we work together.
Ann doesn't pull any punches, and is not hindered with the need to be PC. Makes her books fun to read (it also helps that I agree with her positions), and if I pick up a few new words along the way -- that's good too...
You are really off the mark here. She supports Israel more than most Jews do nowadays. She’s not trying to do away with Jews. Honestly, you need to get a handle on that. Wanting Jews and others to be Christians is how Christians feel. Loving Jews is part of Christianity, or it should be. Don’t put words into her mouth that she never said or meant. We agree with her views because that’s what Christianity is. We’re commanded by G-d to take the gospel to all nations. We love and support Jews because you are G-d’s chosen people. We support Israel more than most people do, Christian or not.
Just be glad they weren't muslim.
But actually, Muslims don't bother to "missionize." They only demand that you convert; if you refuse, it's off with your hed.
Okay, I guess your hubby is excluded or an exception then. :)
“But Coulter’s remarks here clearly represent standard Christian belief, and it’s wrong and intolerant to condemn someone for her basic religious beliefs..”
Yep...I read just fine...he has a problem with her calling the convention Heaven...full of christians...
Here’s a clue....IT’S CALLED SARCASM..
her boy friend is jewish...look it up...
and if you think they aint doin the nasty...grow up.
Coulter is also wrong about Fred Thompson. I will not believe that the Republican Party will nominate a pro-abortion candidate. Coulter should occasionally think before she opens that mouth. And while Im at it she should lengthen her skirts. I have great legs too however, too much is too much. That also is not very Christian.
Just my opinion
want a piece of Coconut Cream Pie? EAGLES UP! FOR FRED!!!
There’s a reason it’s called the Judaeo-Christian Ethic. AC should know this.
Actually, that's not quite right. Jews believe that a righteous person of any faith is just fine by G-d. (That's the main reason Jews feel no obligation to convert others. Non-Jews can make it to their proper place just fine on their own.) Jews are chosen by G-d to live by the Torah. It's a responsibility and a gift.
(Not to sound preachy, just clearing that up.) Shabbat Shalom.