Posted on 10/15/2007 7:56:21 AM PDT by BigAlPro
You have any support for Dobson’s opposition to dancing? Drinking in moderation?
You see, this line of reasoning is ludicrous.
If you look past the next election and allow a Clinton presidency, you'll see the installation of The Fairness Doctrine, the abolition of The Electoral College and the institutionalizing of National Socialized Medicine.
The "next election" will be a Dem lock...and it will be so for decades.
Think!
You're a Clinton shill.
Not in 08. And maybe never...haven't seen the situation which would prevent me yet.
No, conservatives don't vote for liberals of either party.
We've tried your approach of voting for liberal Republicans over and over again -- from Christie Todd Whitman to Michael Bloomberg to Arnold Schwarzenkennedy -- and it fails EVERY time it is tried.
It's not possible for conservatism to advance by voting for liberals and liberal Republicans ARE greater of two evils.
Don't like the fact that millions won't vote for RINO Rudy? Then, support a conservative candidate for the Republican nomination.
So I am. But, I won't support a liberal like Giuliani if Thompson or someone doesn't win.
So, take all the accusations against principled conservatives and stick 'em where the sun doesn't shine.
That logic has given CA a *republican* governor who raises taxes/fees, increases the scope and power of government, and pushes socially liberal policies on school kids...
Why the hell should we do that at a national level..
“especially during these precarious times.”
All times can be precarious who is to say we wont have a bigger problem in 2016? Id like, at that, point to have a conservative in the general election and if we make it a habit to support gun grabbing, constitution stomping, abortion loving rinos now why would 8 years out be any different..
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..
Imagine where Christianity would be today if too many people in the past took the Dobson approach to people in positions of leadership. What if the original disciples would have stayed home just because they didn't like the way James was running things or the message Paul was preaching.
Disagreeing with our leaders doesn't give us the right to stay home or lay down. We need to do the best we can with what God gives us. Anything less represents a lack of faith and a shortage of trust.
No they aren't.
Raising taxes is evil. Tax cuts are good.
Support for partial-birth abortion is evil. Opposing it is good.
Supporting U.S. troops and their commanders in Iraq is good. Opposing them is evil.
Supporting Israel at every turn is good. To embolden Israel's enemies is evil.
Opposing National Health Care is good. Supporting National Health Care is evil.
Supporting constructionist nominees to the Federal Judiciary is good. Opposing them is evil.
Upholding The Electoral College is good. Disestablishing The Electoral College is evil.
Supporting school choice and vouchers programs is good. Opposing school choice and vouchers programs is evil.
Attacking Democrats whenever possible is good. Just being a Democrat, these days, is evil.
Rudy sides with evil way to much for my support in a primary.
Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, is so evil that anyone not voting to defeat her in a general election has by definition sided with evil itself.
Your "principles" could very possibly mean the end of The Republic. Hillary Clinton is a socialist. And lest you hurl your slimeballs at me again and accuse me of fear-mongering, be advised that telling the truth isn't fearmongering at all.
Telling the truth is telling the truth.
Right. And Fred has not come out and said he'd support a state abortion ban in Tennessee. In fact, in this youtube clip, it appears that Fred says he will not support a state ban on abortion. While Fred and Mitt are both saying the right things now, and both have excellent records in office, Mitt does support a state ban on abortion once Roe v. Wade is overturned while Fred has not stated that he would support such a ban. Fred vs. Mitt on state abortion ban explained here. See youtube clip.
This is one of the issues which has disqualified Fred in Dobson's mind. It's also why Mark DeMoss' comments make so much sense as well: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1909920/posts (Evangelical publicist sends letter to evangelical leaders urging them to rally Romney support)
I’d say that we are to act with wisdom, holding God foremost, and within the laws. Beyond that I don’t think we “have to” vote. If wisdom says “don’t vote for either of the schlubs” then we shouldn’t. I don’t think it’s likely that will be the case (I will do a write in if there is a Romney against Clinton election, but think I will pull the lever for Guilianni against Clinton if it comes down to that). I like Duncan Hunter personally.
I appreciate such a straightforward answer. Can’t agree with you, though.
let me be clear, I am not in agreement with him, just stating his position. My wife works for him, and I saw him say as much in a meeting a couple of weeks ago.
Giuliani vehemently opposed school choice as mayor of New York.
Giuliani refuses to take a no-new-taxes pledge, has hinted at raising social security taxes, ran up the second-highest debt in the nation as mayor of New York and filed a lawsuit that revoked the line-item veto passed by the Republican Congress.
He coddled illegals, filing lawsuits on their behalf.
He appointed liberal judges by an 8-1 margin.
He stripped away the rights of gun owners with gun control laws and filed a lawsuit against gun manufacturers.
He supported affirmative action, McCain-Feingold, a minimum wage increase and rent control.
HE'S LIBERAL.
The same people like you that want to live in a fantasy world and pretend RINO Rudy is a conservative are the same ones that insisted Schwartzenegger was in California.
Your strategy of putting liberal Republicans in the White House has failed EVERY time it has been tried.
Rent a brain.
I think God is showing us with the USA the absolute best humans can expect to do on their own. And while this try is better than any that has come before, it is still woefully short of what God’s will is for us.
Illegal immigration/Immigration
Immigration politics have similarly harmed New York. Former mayor Rudolph Giuliani sued all the way up to the Supreme Court to defend the city’s sanctuary policy against a 1996 federal law decreeing that cities could not prohibit their employees from cooperating with the INS. Oh yeah? said Giuliani; just watch me. The INS, he claimed, with what turned out to be grotesque irony, only aims to “terrorize people.” Though he lost in court, he remained defiant to the end. On September 5, 2001, his handpicked charter-revision committee ruled that New York could still require that its employees keep immigration information confidential to preserve trust between immigrants and government. Six days later, several visa-overstayers participated in the most devastating attack on the city and the country in history.
New York conveniently forgot the 1996 federal ban on sanctuary laws until a gang of five Mexicans—four of them illegal—abducted and brutally raped a 42-year-old mother of two near some railroad tracks in Queens. The NYPD had already arrested three of the illegal aliens numerous times for such crimes as assault, attempted robbery, criminal trespass, illegal gun possession, and drug offenses. The department had never notified the INS.
Source: Heather Mac Donald
CNN clip:
Announcer: "Back in 1996, mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants."
Rudy Giuliani: "There isn't a mayor or a public official in this country that's more strongly pro immigrant than I am. Including disagreeing with President Clinton when he signed an anti-immigration legislation about two or three years ago."
The New York Immigrant Coalition Press Release, August, 1989:
Rudy would continue to make city services available to all immigrants, regardless of immigration status.
Prohibit city workers from reporting undocumented immigrants to the INS, unless criminal activity is involved….
Make sure that city workers understand what benefits immigrants are entitled to….
Encourage outreach to immigrant communities to encourage their utilization of city services….
Support the use of interpreters and translators in city government
Support bilingual and bicultural education with goals of learning fluent English and maintaining native language skills….
Oppose making English the “official language” of the U.S.
Support adding alienage to protected class under City’s Human rights Law.
Additionally, he has supported Bush's guest worker program.
Guns
CNN clip
Rudy Giuliani: "I'm in favor of gun control"
Meet The Press:
Tim Russert: "How about registration of all handguns?"
Rudy Giuliani: "You know I'm in favor of that. I've been on your show many times."
As mayor of New York City, Rudolph W. Giuliani became the favorite Republican of gun control advocates. He spoke in favor of a licensing system for gun owners that would require trigger locks and firearms training, and he lobbied Congress to outlaw most military-style assault weapons. He was the only Republican mayor to join a lawsuit by dozens of cities against the gun industry, and he complained that Southern states had lax gun laws that fed the illegal weapons trade in the Northeast.
Abortion
As mayor, Rudy Giuliani will uphold a woman's right of choice to have an abortion. Giuliani will fund all city programs which provide abortions to insure that no woman is deprived of her right due to an inability to pay. He will oppose reductions in state funding. He will oppose making abortion illegal. New York Times, August 4, 1989
Giuliani said in a speech back in 1989: “There must be public funding for abortions for poor women,” Giuliani says in the speech that is posted on the video sharing site YouTube. “We cannot deny any woman the right to make her own decisions about abortion.”
Leaflets distributed by the Giuliani campaign .... said that he opposes restrictions to Federal Medicaid financing for abortions and opposes the Hyde Amendment, which is intended to deny support for that financing. New York Times, June 18, 1993.
On Partial Birth Abortion: Mr. Giuliani has said that New York State law should not be changed to outlaw the procedure. New York Times, January 7, 1998
"I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights,Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing," he responded." -- CNN.com, "Inside Politics" Dec 2, 1999
"I never called for the overturning of Roe vs. Wade." Rudy Giuliani, New York Newsday, September 1, 1989
On Parental notification, Giuliani says he's for it now. But read this excerpt from a New York Times article written last month:
"On a 1997 candidate questionnaire from the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League of New York, which Mr. Giuliani completed and signed, he marked ‘yes’ to the question: Would you oppose legislation ‘requiring a minor to obtain permission from a parent or from a court before obtaining an abortion.’”
As these comments from a 1989 conversation with Phil Donahue show, Rudy Giuliani is staunchly in favor of abortion:
"I've said that I'll uphold a woman's right of choice, that I will fund abortion so that a poor woman is not deprived of a right that others can exercise, and that I would oppose going back to a day in which abortions were illegal.
I do that in spite of my own personal reservations. I have a daughter now; if a close relative or a daughter were pregnant, I would give my personal advice, my religious and moral views ...
Donahue: Which would be to continue the pregnancy.
Giuliani: Which would be that I would help her with taking care of the baby. But if the ultimate choice of the woman - my daughter or any other woman - would be that in this particular circumstance [if she had] to have an abortion, I'd support that. I'd give my daughter the money for it."
From the FEC database: 04/24/1999 Donations
NEW YORK STATE NARAL INC WOMEN'S HEALTH PAC
NARAL donated exclusively to Democrat candidates with one exception----Rudy Giuliani.
Giuliani accepted $1,000 from NARAL in 1999.
NARAL gave $250 to Hillary Rodham Clinton.
NARAL gave $1000---4 times as much-----to pro-abortion Giuliani.
The homosexual agenda
Giuliani said homosexuality is "good and normal." quoting Ray Kerrison New York Post, July 7, 1989
According to the New York Times, Giuliani has attended every “gay pride” parade in New York during his eight years as mayor. In 1992, during his first run for mayor, Giuliani took part in a homosexual “pride” parade that included a contingent of pedophile activists marching behind a banner for NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love.
On Gay Domestic Partnership: "I have no objection to the concept of domestic partnership," said Rudy Giuliani on Informed Sources New York T.V. Show (PBS), May, 1992
On Gay-Rights/Gay Rights Bill: Giuliani favors extended civil-rights protection for gays and lesbians. Giuliani urged, by letter, to the New York Senate Majority Leader to pass the state's first ever gay rights bill, but did it privately. "I am writing to convey my support for the current legislation to prohibit discrimination against gays and lesbians, and to urge you to allow the bill onto the floor of the Senate for prompt action." ".......It is my belief that we can penalize discrimination [against gays] without creating any potentially objectionable special privileges or preferential treatment." New York Post, June 5, 1993
Judical appointments
A Politico review of the 75 judges Giuliani appointed to three of New York state's lower courts found that Democrats outnumbered Republicans by more than 8 to 1. One of his appointments was an officer of the International Association of Lesbian and Gay Judges. Another ruled that the state law banning liquor sales on Sundays was unconstitutional because it was insufficiently secular.
A third, an abortion-rights supporter, later made it to the federal bench in part because New York Sen. Charles E. Schumer, a liberal Democrat, said he liked her ideology.
Cumulatively, Giuilani's record was enough to win applause from people like Kelli Conlin, the head of NARAL Pro-Choice New York, the state's leading abortion-rights group. "They were decent, moderate people," she said.
Source: Ben Smith, The Politico, 3/1/07
One judge approved by Giuliani, Rosalyn Richter, had been executive director of a gay rights organization, Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, before being named to the bench. After her initial appointment by former Mayor David N. Dinkins, Richter changed the questions asked of potential jurors to be more welcoming to gay and lesbian couples. She was later reappointed by Giuliani.
Another judge, appointed by Giuliani to the criminal bench in 1996, Dora Irizarry, has called herself pro-choice and was later elevated to the federal bench with strong support from Democratic Sens. Charles E. Schumer and Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.
A family court judge reappointed by Giuliani, Sheldon Rand, was excoriated on the conservative-leaning New York Post editorial page last week for ruling that city funds be used to pay for a sex-change operation for an indigent New York resident.
And a fourth judge, Paula J. Hepner, appointed initially by Dinkins in 1995, issued a ruling that allowed a lesbian to adopt her partner's child. Four years later, Giuliani reappointed Hepner to New York's family court bench. Hepner was subsequently married to another woman in a ceremony in Canada.
Source: om Hamburger and Adam Schreck, Los Angeles Times, 3/12/07
Global Warming
"I do believe there's global warming, yes. The big question has always been how much of it is happening because of natural climate changes and how much of it is happening because of human intervention. The overwhelming number of scientists now believe that there is significant human cause." -- Rudolph Giuliani, Feb. 12, 2007.
Taxes
---"Over the objections of a furious Mayor Giuliani and city legislators from both parties, the New York state legislature has abolished the New York City commuter tax. The action, done to apparently affect a local legislative race in suburban Rockland County, could cost New York City $360 million. NPR's Margot Adler reports."--- NPR Report
---"Let's face it: Rudy Giuliani argued for the reinstatement of the tax,..."--- NY Sun report
[Giuliani] says ruling out a tax increase is "political pandering." Newsday, August 31, 1989
"When I ran for Mayor both times, I was asked very, very often to do the following:
Pledge that you will never raise taxes. I refused to do that. Pledge that you will lower taxes. I refused to do that." -- Rudy Giuliani, New York Times, October 25, 1994
Mr. Giuliani criticized Mr. Pataki’s proposal to cut taxes as “a shell game” that would hurt everyone in the state… -- New York Times, October 30, 1994
Government spending
Mr. Giuliani said the surplus from the current fiscal year, which ends on June 30, is projected to be $856 million, a record amount caused largely by higher-than-expected tax revenues from robust profits on Wall Street. He said for the first time that he wanted to use $99 million of that money to help the city adapt to the new strict Federal welfare rules by paying for child care, job training and other programs.
Source: New York Times, Clifford Levy, 5/9/97
Giuliani allowed spending to increase significantly faster than inflation during four of his last five years in office - and another big increase was in store for fiscal 2002 before the World Trade Center attack forced the city into an austerity mode.
Source: FISCALWATCH MEMO July 20, 2004
Not all that well. According to New York's Independent Budget Office, total budgeted expenditures grew from $31.8 billion in 1995 (Rudy's first budget year) to $44.6 billion in 2003, an increase of 40.3%. By comparison, the inflation rate from January 1995 to January 2003 was 20.89% according to this inflation rate calculator. Thus, New York City's spending under Rudy grew at a rate twice that of inflation.
Perhaps the biggest difference is on fiscal issues. Giuliani, who lost interest in curtailing the growth of city government in his latter years, left behind a fiscal catastrophe—a $6.4 billion deficit proportionately bigger than the hole that caused the 1975 fiscal shortfall. --- Jacob Weisberg, Slate magazine 2/21/07
Mr. Clinton is enthusiastic, and in August 1997 uses his tool for the first time to strike down a special-interest provision tucked in a bill. That provision gives New York hospitals a unique right to bilk extra Medicaid money, and the veto is expected to save federal taxpayers at least $200 million. Quicker than a Big Apple pol can say "pork," New York officials sue, challenging the line item veto's constitutionality. That suit, Clinton v. City of New York, goes all the way to the Supremes, which in 1998 put the kibosh on veto authority. The kicker? The guy who brought the suit and won--or, rather, the guy who helped stall one of the more powerful tools for reining in government spending--was none other than former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.
Source: Kimberly Strassel, Wall Street Journal, 4/14/07
School Choice
We’re going to see increased calls for privatization and for vouchers for private and parochial school education. Alternatives which in my view will weaken if not create the collapse of the New York City public school system…. I believe the voucher system in New York City would be very, very troublesome. Our system is so large that making that kind of transition would pose tremendous difficulties. Not to mention the constitutional and legal difficulties that would be entailed in providing tax relief and tax dollars for religious education.
Rudy Giuliani
Speech to Wharton Club,
New York Times, August 15, 1995
Giuliani himself was on record as repeatedly opposing a voucher system. As a candidate in 1993, he had told United Federation of Teachers’ President Sandra Feldman that he believed vouchers were “unconstitutional.”
In May 1995, he told a UFT conference that “vouchers would bleed the public schools of needed funds.”
In a speech to the Wharton Club in August 1995, the mayor declared, “Vouchers would weaken, if not create the collapse of the New York City public-school system.”
But by January 1999, Giuliani, facing term limits, was seriously thinking about running for the Senate in 2000. His advisers and pollsters were telling him that if he switched his position on vouchers, it would help him with Catholic voters upstate, and the national Republican Party.
So he slipped a favorable reference to a voucher plan into his state of the city address that month.
According to Wayne Barrett’s definitive Giuliani biography, Rudy!, following this voucher’s reference, the mayor told an alarmed Crew, “Don’t worry about it. It’s just a political thing, a campaign thing. I’m not going to do anything. Don’t take it seriously.”
The Full Rudy, pp. 52-53
"He doesn't support tuition tax credits and vouchers." Sandra Feldman, President of N.Y.C. Teacher's Union, 1993
Minimum Wage
"I favor increasing the minimum wage." -- Rudolph Giuliani, 2/6/00, CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer.
Price Controls
Giuliani to Lobby to Save Rent Control (May 24, 1997)
The Tenant/AP ^ | May 24, 1997 | staff
NEW YORK -- Mayor Rudolph Giuliani says he will go back to Albany next week to push to keep rent controls on more than 1 million apartments, and to urge Republican leaders to come around to his position.
``I believe that we should continue rent stabilization and rent control,'' the mayor said. ``I will continue to oppose'' their elimination.
On McCain-Feingold "For example, on campaign finance reform, I'm a very, very strong supporter of Campaign Finance Reform. A very strong supporter of McCain-Feingold for a long, long time now." -- 2/6/00, CNN Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer.
Disregard for Constitutional Rights Mayor Giuliani routinely disregarded the First Amendment as he rejected requests for information from news organizations and civic groups and opposed public access to city hall steps and parks for demonstrations. "Freedom is about authority," Giuliani said, responding to critics in 1998. "Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it."
War on Terror
Giuliani Defends Clinton on 9/11 Efforts
FOX News ^ | 09/27/2006 | Matt Sedensky
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani defended Bill Clinton on Wednesday over the former president's counterterrorism efforts, saying recent criticism on preventing the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks is wrong.
Political bickering over which president _ Clinton or George W. Bush _ missed more opportunities to prevent the attacks has been escalating since Clinton gave a combative interview on"Fox News Sunday"in which he defended his efforts to kill Osama bin Laden.
"The idea of trying to cast blame on President Clinton is just wrong for many, many reasons, not the least of which is I don't think he deserves it,"Giuliani said in response to a question after an appearance with fellow Republican Charlie Crist, who is running for governor."I don't think President Bush deserves it. The people who deserve blame for Sept. 11, I think we should remind ourselves, are the terrorists _ the Islamic fanatics _ who came here and killed us and want to come here again and do it."
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice challenged Clinton's claim that he did more than many of his conservative critics to pursue bin Laden, and she accused the Democrat of leaving no comprehensive plan to fight al-Qaida.
Giuliani said he believed Clinton, like his successor, did everything he could with the information he was provided.
"Every American president I've known would have given his life to prevent an attack like that. That includes President Clinton, President Bush,"the former mayor said."They did the best they could with the information they had at the time."
Welfare Reform
Rudy's Welfare Plea (Fought to keep immigrants on welfare.) New York Daily News (via LexisNexis) ^ | 03/21/1997 | Joel Siegel
Mayor Giuliani took his advocacy for immigrants to Congress yesterday, trying to derail the planned August cut-off of federal welfare benefits to legal immigrants including more than 135,000 in New York City.
He said the abrupt end of food stamps and Supplemental Security Income payments would inflict severe and unfair hardships on legal immigrants and impose financial pain on cities like New York that will be forced to step in and help those who lose aid.
The cut-off was a key provision of the sweeping federal welfare reform approved last summer. Some immigrants will begin losing their benefits in June, with all benefits to be halted by Aug. 22.
"All of these people would [lose assistance] all at once, not phased in, not done in some kind of sensible way in which citizens and states could assess, 'How do we replace these benefits?' " Giuliani said.
-and what of the personal choice of the unborn babe? -- abortion is and always has been about the murder of a baby who has NO choice in the decision....
I never said Rudy wasn't a liberal. I have stated that he is inarguably less liberal than Hillary Clinton.
I hope you like the doctor she picks out for you, chump.
I never said Rudy wasn't a liberal.
Yet, you're encouraging conservative to vote for liberal.
You're strategy has failed EVERY time it has been tried. Liberal Republicans like Christie Todd Whitman and Arnold Schwarzenegger ARE the greater of two evils.
Would you like to tell us how Arnold Schwarzenegger has been better than a Democrat in California, especially given that his election has blocked any chance even moderate conservative has of taking office for EIGHT years?
And, NO, I'm not giving up a chance to put a conservative in the White in 2012 by voting for Giuliani. Nor am I going to throw away any chance a Republican majority in Congress, perhaps as soon as 2010, by putting a liberal like Giuliani in the White House.
Giuliani will do infinitely more damage to conservatism than Hillary Clinton.
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