Posted on 10/15/2007 9:21:43 PM PDT by humint
Eastern Turkey is old Christian Armenia. Armenia is as well armed as Ukraine and they want IN bad. Smell of fresh meat and ....
In my previous comment I forgot to mention the automatic 155 gun platforms that will be forthcoming to the Kurds as all this unfolds.
So Turkey has just unleasehed the old OttomanEmpire genii and it’s going to get VERY interesting as the Christian missionaries (El Lawrance rides his camle again) arrive in Kurdistasn along with the “Israeli aide packages”.
"Our principle as the government of the Kurdish province and the government of Iraq, we are agreed ... that the territory of Iraqi Kurdistan or Iraq should not be used for any attacks on neighbouring countries, whether Iran or Turkey or any other country," he said.
"We are agreed on this principle and we will make efforts to prevent our territory from being used for any assault on Iran."
"Nechirvan Barzani, Prime Minister of Iraq's Kurdistan Regional Government, told Al Jazeera Television the problem of attacks by the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), whose rebels use northern Iraq as a base, could not be resolved militarily.
"'We, as the government of the province of Kurdistan, will not allow our land or the land of Iraq to be used for assaults on any neighbouring state,' he said in comments aired on Sunday.
"'The PKK is not just a problem for Turkey but has caused us problems in the past .... It is not true that we are benefiting from the problem of the PKK, but our view is that since this issue cannot be solved through war we should seek a political solution,' he added in comments dubbed into Arabic."
An alliance between Turkey and Iran eh? Well looks like Brazani (leader of the province of Kurdistan) has joined in. Now we got Turkey, Iran, and Kurdistan going after PKK and PJAK.
Wait! "Barzani . . . criticised the central government in Baghdad for failing to consult the regional Kurdish government before signing an anti-terrorism deal with Turkey in September, which targeted Kurdish rebels based in northern Iraq."
Add Baghdad to that. That makes four of 'em going after PKK and PJAK.
To think that the Democrats in congress have such an ignoramus leading them is beyond belief.
If Hellary and her Clinton Machine Brown Shirts get the goverment reins expect the USA to lose more than a little respect as she disassembles our military might.
The Democrats are traitors to their own country and I don’t care who knows that I think that way.
Democrats are not, I repeat ARE NOT Patriots when it comes to protecting America.
I will work with all heart, soul and what little money I can spare to see that no Democrat takes control of my country.
“Thanks, Madame Speaker. Do you have any more colossally stupid things that you wish to do?”
Sadly this will just encourage her. She is just getting started.
By going after both at the same time while thumbing their [Kurdish] nose at the central government is an incredibly shortsighted plan.
***My understanding is that the PKK has been operating for decades against Turkey. Only recently have the Kurds been operating in Iran, due to OUR prompting and furtive assistance. They are not thumbing their noses at any central guvmint, the central guvmint is simply having trouble forming a coherent entity. The only thing shortsighted that I see the Kurds doing is, well, TRUSTING US. After all, we already betrayed them once & Saddam gassed them.
I agree about Pelosi, but isn’t this a bipartisan declaration?
Armenia broke out of (rebeled as “terriorist”) Ottoman Empire and came into WWI on the Russian’s side as a way to get back their homelands. Turks did to them what Turks often do to their enemies. Armenians lost that round.
This is the next round of that continued conflict.
But where are the Serbs ?? Oh yeah, there back at home holding the fort against their local insurgent Muslim enemy.
So let’s see - Poles, Romanians, Georgians, Hungarians, Serbs. No Greeks or Bulgarians/Macedonians yet but give it time. Looking like a rematch for sure.
Not all Kurds are with the PKK element. Many of the Kurds in Northern Iraq have seen the results of capitalism. War messes with capitalism and they probably don’t want to mess with the success they are having.
But they also are really in no position to fight the PKK elements, so will end up going along. If Turkey does come in we are forced to pick who we want, and sadly though they were headed that way, this administration blew that opportunity over the last few years.... but then they did not factor in the STUPID dems messing everything up.
And I agree with A or B being how it will come out.
You're not wrong about the PKK. My comment was about their timing --- assuming the Kurdish political structure has any influence over them at all.
They are not thumbing their noses at any central guvmint
They've made some sketchy oil deals outside the authority of the central government. Given the economics of Iraq, there is no better way to thumb one's nose at their government. It's kinda like the death match for influence going on in Basra right now... Petty power grabs are costing lives.
Kurdistan Regional government is going after both Turkey and Iran?
Is that what you are suggesting? If yes.. how? If no.. I misunderstood, sorry about that.
No, it’s very partisan. Only Democraps are voting for this incredibly stupid and treacherous bill.
So why say that? It was 102 years ago. The dems should not have forced things to what will come from this stupid move.
Worse, it may have worked better than they thought. Now there might be a bigger messier war. If they were in the presidency they could fly off the B-2’s and bomb some civilians in South East Europe and call it victory.
And get back to messing with Haiti or something. Idiots.
The Kurds are all brothers when the larger conflict comes into view and will stand together when all the brown stuff gets airborne. The real unknown here is what the hell are the Israelis doing here (have been for a while) in this dogfight. The don’t waste ammo on side issues and this is definitely no longer a “side issue”.
assuming the Kurdish political structure has any influence over them [PKK] at all.
***That’s a difficult assumption to verify. If the Kurdish political structure did have influence, they would have been getting them to knock off the raids into Turkey. So it does appear that any influence is quite limited. And my impression of these kinds of groups that were originally funded by Marxists and trained by the KGB is that they aren’t really patriotic organizations. Kinda like how the KGB circumvented much of the IRA in Ireland and it took a lot of work to outmaneuver them — it only happened after KGB influence waned with the Berlin Wall coming down. So, if I were running the “Kurdish political structure”, I’d sell the PKK down the river in exchange for autonomy in eastern Turkurdistan, or whatever it’s called.
I do not know how much influence the regional Kurdish government has over the PKK or PJAK. I am not suggesting they are consciously cooperating to attack Iran and Turkey. My intent is to show how each entity is influencing the overall "Kurdish" situation. The level of control the Kurds have over their own condition is a variable open to discussion. Iranian and Turkish incursion into Iraq however has much broader consequences for Iraq and the Kurds, beyond the PKK and PJAK. These may be the sparks of a much larger conflagration.
The Israelis have been training the intelligence organizations on the peripherals of the Middle East for several years now. It’s one way they keep tabs on things.
Source:
The Spymasters of Israel (Mass Market Paperback)
by Stewart Steven (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Spymasters-Israel-Stewart-Steven/dp/0345339274/ref=sr_1_2/105-4108010-8022030?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192513427&sr=8-2
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Sadly I fear the Turks will not take time to distinguish between the PKK and the Kurdistan Regional government.
It will be amazing if we can diplomatically get Turkey to keep them separate. But I fear the PKK elements will hide out in the Kurdistan Regional government area in Iraq. Forcing Turkey to attack them too.
This will force us immediately make one of several very bad choices.
The dems blew this meddling attempt big time.
Here’s a couple of posts on another Turkey thread where it’s claimed there are Republicans sponsoring or voting for this bill.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1911227/posts
To: arthurus
“The whole Kurdish showplace of freedom and orderly development in Iraqi Kurdistan has been jeopardized just because Pelosi and the Left felt it necessary to punish Turkey for the unforgivable sin of being an ally of the United States.”
In case you don’t know, the resolution is bipartisan that has many Republican cosponsors and it’s come up every year for many years — and killed every year for one reason or another.
The fact is roughly 1.5 million Christian Armenians were murdered by the Turkish government just for being “infidels,” which Turkey has always denied.
So let Turkey be angry about it. The truth is they need our support far more than we need theirs.
162 posted on 10/15/2007 4:32:46 PM PDT by tabsternager
To: txroadkill
i’m aware of all that. frankly since there are Republicans who have signed on to this as well over the years (Dennis Hastert tried to bring it to the floor as well), i think it is more and issue of coming through for the Armenians. it has been tried and tried and tried - and never passed. no guarantee it will be this time. as much as i detest the Dems and their war against this war, i don’t this this is calculated as part of it. by the way, i have a cousin at Centcom and one in Kuwait, both in the Air Force and working hard to win this war.
42 posted on 10/14/2007 5:56:03 PM PDT by avital2
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That is a bit obvious. The PKK was probably feeding the Israeli’s intel on Irans nuke plans, and placing a volatile element on Syria’s flank.
Additionally you have not spoken to the fact yet that Israel and Turkey have been Intel and cooperative (low key) buddies for years.
They may have given them some artillery but I do not suspect they thought those pieces would be used against Turkey (or Jordan, or southern Iraq).
The signs are the dems started a domino fall that has screwed up a bunch of plans EVERYONE had counted on.
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