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Native American Skull Found At Malibu Construction Site
Malibu Surfside News ^ | 10-17-2007 | Anne Soble

Posted on 10/17/2007 2:24:12 PM PDT by blam

Native American Skull Found at Malibu Construction Site

• State Native American Heritage Commission Initiates Process for Handling Find •

BY ANNE SOBLE

A human skull unearthed at a construction site in the Paradise Cove mobile home park has been officially declared a prehistoric Native American find, and the wheels have been put in motion for the remains to be handled in accord with state law. Workers preparing the foundation for a new mobile home in the beachside complex discovered the skull during routine digging Monday at about 4 p.m. and contacted the sheriff’s department. Capt. Ed Winter of the Operations Investigations Bureau of the Los Angeles County Coroner’s Office said a “skeletal team,” including a forensics anthropologist, arrived at the scene a few hours later to study the artifact. Winter said the discovery was not surprising because there have been a number of finds of prehistoric Native American artifacts in the Paradise Cove area. The team’s consulting forensic anthropologist, Elizabeth Miller, a faculty member at Cal State L.A., said when she made the determination that the skull was a prehistoric artifact, that action took the matter out of the Coroner’s Office’s hands. Miller said her analysis was based on the age of the remains, first determined visually by “its brittleness, the morphology of the face’s ethnic characteristics and the wear on the teeth.”

The anthropologist said the teeth of most California Native Amer­icans in pre-recorded history “are worn down to little nubs” because of the “large amount of grit in their diet.”

Miller’s determination of artifact status resulted in the skull being referred to the California Native American Heritage Commission in Sacramento, which did its own analysis of authenticity and, also having determined the skull to be Native American remains, has taken over its official disposition. Larry Myers, the executive secretary of the Native American Heritage Commission, said that a member of the Chumash people, having been declared “a most likely descendent,” has been selected to work with the property owner where the skull was found. Myers said the commission has a policy of not making the name of the descendents public. He said it was likely that individual has already made contact with the property owner and the developer of the parcel, but additional information was not available as The News went to press. There may be some additional legal issues in this case concerning how final arrangements for the skull will be worked out, as the land in the park is owned by the Kissel Company and leased to mobile home owners. According to Miller, there are a number of options for ways to honor human remains of Native American ancestors. The skull is presently protected in the location where it was found until disposition has been resolved. The skull could be buried in the spot it was found, placed somewhere else on the site and covered by construction, or it could be moved to a different location for a ceremonial ritual. Miller said there probably will be a request to do further excavation at the site, but she added, “Most property owners do not allow this.”

Requests for additional study at locations of other archaeological finds in Malibu have been rebuffed by owners who are under no legal obligation to allow additional study on their land. There were reports that the people constructing the foundation for a mobile home at the find site have spent a lengthy period of time on the process and were cautiously appraising this latest development. Miller said it is against federal law to own Native American remains or artifacts, but finds can legally be covered up, and the insights they might offer into California’s prehistory could be lost. She urged people to be careful where they dig and turn all finds over to the sheriff’s department. “Each find holds the potential to answer questions about the past.”


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: 2bad; american; godsgravesglyphs; malibu; native; scull

1 posted on 10/17/2007 2:24:16 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv; Coyoteman

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 10/17/2007 2:25:55 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam
If this were an Indian casino that they were building, it wouldn't be held up for a minute, even if the shovel ran into an entire Indian graveyard loaded with artifacts.
3 posted on 10/17/2007 2:27:40 PM PDT by Plutarch
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To: blam

Mobile home in Malibu? What’s next, Porky’s in Beverly Hills? Butch’s Tatoo & Piercing Den on Park Avenue? Go-Go Rama of Beacon Hill?


4 posted on 10/17/2007 2:30:36 PM PDT by JewishRighter
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To: JewishRighter

They go for over a million dollars. Sad thing is you can see them from the restaurant there-—spoils the view (the food there is no good either though).


5 posted on 10/17/2007 2:34:53 PM PDT by Founding Father (The Pedophile moHAMmudd (PBUH---Pigblood be upon him))
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To: JewishRighter
Mobile home in Malibu?

And a very nice one it is.
A couple of years back The Los Angeles Times had a story about it.
6 posted on 10/17/2007 2:35:31 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Plutarch

Your statement is not only false but pure Bull Shiite. Where do you people come up with this endless nonsense? Look at what you wrote, think about it, do a little research, and see where and how many times what you said has actually happened. I would bet, none, never. Total Bias response.


7 posted on 10/17/2007 2:39:15 PM PDT by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: JewishRighter
This one was going for $2.2 milllion...

...But it is a double-wide.

Basically, the story is that the park has been there forever, and everyone has fixed up their trailers to the point where they're hardly recognizable as such anymore. But even at those prices, they are far and away the cheapest way to live next to the beach in the area.

8 posted on 10/17/2007 2:43:59 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: blam

kennewick man II.


9 posted on 10/17/2007 2:45:51 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
"Kennewick Man II."

Probably not.

"Miller said her analysis was based on the age of the remains, first determined visually by “its brittleness, the morphology of the face’s ethnic characteristics and the wear on the teeth.”

10 posted on 10/17/2007 2:48:54 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

This is what happens when smoking is banned in California - no one needs another ash tray.


11 posted on 10/17/2007 2:49:01 PM PDT by glorgau
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To: fish hawk

Definitions of hyperbole on the Web:

A figure of speech in which deliberate exaggeration is used for emphasis. Many everyday expressions are examples of hyperbole: tons of money ...
www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0903237.html

a deliberate exaggeration or overstatement.
www.saratogaschools.org/academic/terry/libraryresearchsite/WordDocs/Literary%20Terms%20and%20Techniques.doc

Exaggeration used for emphasis. Hyperbole can be used to heighten effect, to catalyze recognition, or to create a humorous perception. Example:
home.cfl.rr.com/eghsap/apterms.html

figure of speech in which the truth is exaggerated for emphasis or humor [Grade 9]
instech.tusd.k12.az.us/Core/glossary/writeglossary.doc

A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect.
www.necompact.org/ea/materials/GLE/GLEsFeb05/NECA%20ReadingGlossary.doc

a deliberate, extravagant, and often outrageous exaggeration: “The shot heard ‘round the world.” It may be used for either serious or comic effect.
henry.mpls.k12.mn.us/1Sep20053.html


12 posted on 10/17/2007 2:53:45 PM PDT by OSHA (Liberals will lick the boot on their necks if they think the other boot is on yours and mine.)
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To: blam
I hope Malibu's "owner" has an alibi.


13 posted on 10/17/2007 2:57:07 PM PDT by x
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To: blam; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks Blam.

Unfortunately, the skull was from last year. [rimshot!]

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

The quarterly FReepathon is underway.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


14 posted on 10/17/2007 3:17:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Tuesday, October 16, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam
when she made the determination that the skull was a prehistoric artifact, that action took the matter out of the Coroner’s Office’s hands

How do they know the skull is isn't from the Clovis people, or other pre-"indian" peoples. The Native Americans who were here when Columbus, Cortez, and the Dutch and English colonists arrived were not the "First Americans". Those earlier folks were here duing the time of the Whooly Mamouths, Saber Tooth Tigers, and Dire Wolves. Must have been right sporting getting enough to eat, and not being eaten in turn.

15 posted on 10/17/2007 4:17:50 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: fish hawk
Look at what you wrote, think about it, do a little research...

You are right, and I feel terrible. If an Indian tribe had a casino project from which they would make untold millions, they would gladly delay or even cancel the project should they come across an Indian gravesite.

I'll ask a friend of mine, who works in the legal department of an Indian casino what they would do and get back to you. No doubt he will be shocked, shocked that I would think even for one moment that the financial interests of the Tribe would take precedence over their boundless reverence for sacred remains.

16 posted on 10/17/2007 5:17:28 PM PDT by Plutarch
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To: El Gato
Recall that the early disposition of the Kennewick Man skull was that it was of an early European Pilgrim. That was because of the unmistakeable shape of the skull...it was 'Caucasian like.' This (Malibu) skull was examined and declared to be Native American.

Vintage Skulls

17 posted on 10/17/2007 5:20:17 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam
Native American Skull Found At Malibu Construction Site

evidence Streisand is a murdereress

18 posted on 10/17/2007 5:21:57 PM PDT by wardaddy (Behind the lines in Vichy Nashville)
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To: fish hawk
Your statement is not only false but pure Bull Shiite. Where do you people come up with this endless nonsense? Look at what you wrote, think about it, do a little research, and see where and how many times what you said has actually happened. I would bet, none, never.

I know of one such case, in the state of Washington.

It took an archaeologist to stop the damage and get some protection for the site. (It was a tribal lodge though, not a casino.)

19 posted on 10/17/2007 6:09:34 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: El Gato
How do they know the skull is isn't from the Clovis people, or other pre-"indian" peoples. The Native Americans who were here when Columbus, Cortez, and the Dutch and English colonists arrived were not the "First Americans".

They probably got most of the information from the age and diagnostic artifacts of the site. The age of a skull by itself is very difficult to estimate without radiocarbon dating unless the morphology is distinctly different (such as Kennewick Man).

Those earlier folks were here duing the time of the Whooly Mamouths, Saber Tooth Tigers, and Dire Wolves. Must have been right sporting getting enough to eat, and not being eaten in turn.

Actually, recent studies have suggested a more mixed, to even vegetal diet than had been thought. The megafauna was probably only an occasional treat.

And incidentally, this is the first time I have heard of a Native American skull referred to as a "prehistoric artifact" -- and I have been doing this for a lot of years, including a couple of decades examining bone finds for the local coroners.

20 posted on 10/17/2007 6:17:07 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Plutarch
If this were an Indian casino that they were building, it wouldn't be held up for a minute, even if the shovel ran into an entire Indian graveyard loaded with artifacts.

You know nothing of the sort, just spun this out of your own ignorance and resentment. Unbelievable how someone could come up with this.

21 posted on 10/17/2007 6:23:05 PM PDT by La Enchiladita
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To: JewishRighter

Yes, mobile home parks in Malibu and in Pacific Palisades and all up and down the coast... what is so strange about that?


22 posted on 10/17/2007 6:23:52 PM PDT by La Enchiladita
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To: blam
Paradise Cove

I have been there. The Rockford Files were filmed at Paradise Cove. Rockford's trailer was on the beach. Now the so called "stars" will not let anyone walk on the beach near Paradise Cove. As far as I know, it is against the law for rich movie actors and others to steal public beaches in California. They have made it off limits. They are destroying the environment in that place.

23 posted on 10/17/2007 6:26:32 PM PDT by GinaLolaB
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To: GinaLolaB
The mega-rich people there may have carried the skull in and buried it so that they can seize the property and to seal it off forever.
24 posted on 10/17/2007 6:30:32 PM PDT by GinaLolaB
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To: GinaLolaB

Do you live here? Paradise Cove beach is fully accessible and available to the public.

There are miles of public beach in Malibu, and I have enjoyed a few of them:

http://www.malibucomplete.com/mc_geography_beaches.php


25 posted on 10/17/2007 6:34:39 PM PDT by La Enchiladita
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To: SunkenCiv

The story is from last week, not last year...

http://www.canyon-news.com/artman2/publish/News_1153/Human_Skull_Found_in_Malibu.php


26 posted on 10/17/2007 6:44:33 PM PDT by La Enchiladita
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To: Plutarch
You don't have to do the research. I've already done it. They would immediately shut down the job (Indian Casino or what ever it was, white or red or black) then the Archaeologists etc. would come in and check out everything. It would shut the job down for quite a long time depending on if it was only the one skull or maybe a burial ground. If it was major they would move the building or project to a different location (Casino or not, Indian or not) IF it was minor like the skull and a few bones or sometimes even much more than that, they may move the whole burial ground content to a new location and rebury. How do I know all this stuff.

I have lived here in Hawaii for many many years and have seen this actually done. It happens quite often here. The laws are the same where this happened as in Hawaii as it is a federal law.

You can quit being a smart ass now.

27 posted on 10/17/2007 6:51:23 PM PDT by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: La Enchiladita

Sorry about your kitty.


28 posted on 10/17/2007 7:41:58 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Tuesday, October 16, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Coyoteman

I think these paleao-Amerindian skeletons should be studied scientifically.

Unless the remains are historic, i.e. within the last few hundred years, its absolute balderdash and nonesense for any tribe to claim them as their “ancestors”. Most Amerindian tribes moved around quite a bit. Take the Shawnees for example - they moved from the mid-west to the gulf coast area and back to the midwest again. The Souix originated in Minnesota and moved out into the great plains when they acquired horses. And all of this movement is within historical times.

Iroqouian lingusitic groups - found in eastern North America, speak a language most closely related to Caddoan tribes who lived in Texas. Obviously SOMEBODY moved there.

So this constant political pandering over these historical artifacts is political correctness gone insane.

This all started because in recent historical times there was a ghoulish practise among whites to exhume the remains of recenly interred Indians and put them on exhibit for the curious and idle masses, particularly those individuals who had been outstanding warriors.

The situation was allowed to escalate under the Clinton regime as certain Native Americans persist in believing their ancestors were ALWAYS here and rsent any efforts to show connections with old world ancestors from Asia or anywhere else.


29 posted on 10/17/2007 8:48:51 PM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Thank you very much. I am still calling for her and looking for her. What a purr she had ...

Thanks again.


30 posted on 10/17/2007 8:54:52 PM PDT by La Enchiladita
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To: fish hawk

Why don’t the developers just make MORE money trying to sell the land off as a do it yourself archeology dig site? Think about the profits they can make by selling dig times for 5 bucks an hour to a hundred schoolkids every hour for 8 hours.


31 posted on 10/17/2007 9:00:48 PM PDT by TypeZoNegative (If More Black People Were Like Ken Hamblin, Jesse Jackson Would Be Broke.)
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To: ZULU
I think these paleao-Amerindian skeletons should be studied scientifically.

Unless the remains are historic, i.e. within the last few hundred years, its absolute balderdash and nonesense for any tribe to claim them as their “ancestors”.

...

As far as studying them, I agree.

As far as "ancestors" -- well, that is an ambiguous term.

Many of the fossil man finds are our ancestors; do we have a claim on studying or not studying them? No.

What about the 100,000-200,000 archaic humans being found? Who has a claim to study or prevent their study?

The question is where do you draw the line. Unfortunately, that is a political, rather than a scientific, question.

If a particular Indian group has a lot of casino money, and the ear of a legislator, they often get their way. Scientists are poor at lobbying, and often poor financially as well. They frequently lose the political battles even though their arguments are better. Been there, done that.

That doesn't make the "bury everything without study" opinion right, just very powerful.

But so far, Kennewick Man is being studied as intensely as any skeleton in North America, and then well beyond. I think that what we will learn from these studies will rewrite the story of North American colonization. I am still hoping that they will get DNA from that one gorgeous third molar.

But some of our legislators have snuck a two-word change into federal law that would give Kennewick Man back to one of the local tribes -- by changing the definition currently in the law. Probably some good campaign donations there!

32 posted on 10/17/2007 9:04:37 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: TypeZoNegative
Why don’t the developers just make MORE money trying to sell the land off as a do it yourself archeology dig site? Think about the profits they can make by selling dig times for 5 bucks an hour to a hundred schoolkids every hour for 8 hours.

In California, there are state laws which kick in when human remains are found.

Knowingly disturbing human remains can be a felony. Here is one applicable law:

California Public Resources Code 5097.99.

(a) No person shall obtain or possess any Native American artifacts or human remains which are taken from a Native American grave or cairn on or after January 1, 1984, except as otherwise provided by law or in accordance with an agreement reached pursuant to subdivision (l) of Section 5097.94 or pursuant to Section 5097.98.

(b) Any person who knowingly or willfully obtains or possesses any Native American artifacts or human remains which are taken from a Native American grave or cairn after January 1, 1988, except as otherwise provided by law or in accordance with an agreement reached pursuant to subdivision (l) of Section 5097.94 or pursuant to Section 5097.98, is guilty of a felony which is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison.

(c) Any person who removes, without authority of law, any Native American artifacts or human remains from a Native American grave or cairn with an intent to sell or dissect or with malice or wantonness is guilty of a felony which is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison.

And a felony is serious stuff indeed. Not to be taken lightly.

33 posted on 10/17/2007 9:13:03 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: JewishRighter
Mobile home in Malibu?

At the risk of sounding crude and dredging up bad memories, at least there aren't any mudslides there. But, I've never actually been in Paradise Cove, so I'm not positive about that.

34 posted on 10/18/2007 12:40:40 AM PDT by KayEyeDoubleDee (const Tag &referenceToConstTag)
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To: Coyoteman

Most politician are just well-paid prostitutes. The only difference between them and honest hookers is they screw the people who DON’T pay them.

“But so far, Kennewick Man is being studied as intensely as any skeleton in North America, and then well beyond. I think that what we will learn from these studies will rewrite the story of North American colonization.”

I agree. I think early man arrived here long before Clovis and American colonization occurred in waves over an extended period of time. It is even possible early American men came from multiple sources - different areas of Asia, possibly from western Europe and possible from Africa.

To let politics block the investigations of science is nothing less than criminal. But then postitutes feel they are above the law anyway.


35 posted on 10/18/2007 8:24:51 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: La Enchiladita
Do you live here?

Actually, no, I live in Upstate NY. I visited Paradise Cove; there was a restaurant near where The Rockford Files were filmed. I saw a sign next to the damaged pier that said "No Trespassing." referring to the beach.

Thanks for the info.

36 posted on 10/18/2007 3:08:24 PM PDT by GinaLolaB
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To: blam
"A human skull unearthed at a construction site in the Paradise Cove mobile home park has been officially declared a prehistoric Native American find"

What do you expect to find in a trailer park?
37 posted on 10/18/2007 3:10:43 PM PDT by LetsRok
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To: Coyoteman
"But so far, Kennewick Man is being studied as intensely as any skeleton in North America, and then well beyond. I think that what we will learn from these studies will rewrite the story of North American colonization. I am still hoping that they will get DNA from that one gorgeous third molar."

Mexico isn't bound by the same laws...And, they have lots of 'unusual' skeletons.

38 posted on 10/18/2007 3:27:22 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam
Mexico isn't bound by the same laws...And, they have lots of 'unusual' skeletons.

Correct. And a number of skeletons were exported to various museums in Europe in the late 1800s, so they will still be available for research. Pretty sad, eh?

39 posted on 10/18/2007 3:50:21 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: GinaLolaB

Well, I learned something too... those “in the know” just go around the signs and walk down by the tideline. I guess the wet sand is public and the dry sand is private? Sounds a little kooky, but hey it’s California...my goofy home...:)

Haven’t done it for awhile, but I like to go up to Point Dume and then walk down the stairway to Paradise Cove beach.


40 posted on 10/18/2007 5:15:03 PM PDT by La Enchiladita
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To: La Enchiladita
Haven’t done it for awhile, but I like to go up to Point Dume and then walk down the stairway to Paradise Cove beach.

That sounds nice! I was only California for a couple of weeks but the beach that I liked the best was the one at San Clemente. I drove there many times from Costa Mesa where I was staying. I went to San Juan Capistrano several times also Laguna Beach, Venice Beach, Oceanside, and Balboa Harbor etc. I even was able to walk through the hills of Santa Catalina Island. Someday I hope to go back to visit the Northern half of California! (Especially the Missions)

41 posted on 10/18/2007 6:07:48 PM PDT by GinaLolaB
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To: blam

bump for later


42 posted on 10/21/2007 8:50:58 AM PDT by Ladycalif (Free The Texas 3 - Ramos, Compean and Hernandez)
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To: Ladycalif

Disturbing a sacred gravesite....Malibu’s going to burn for this!!!!


43 posted on 10/21/2007 9:00:13 AM PDT by cookcounty (Murtha, World's Dumbest Marine Officer, --He can't find Okinawa on a map..)
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To: blam

44 posted on 10/21/2007 9:03:58 AM PDT by CougarGA7 (I'm supporting a Conservative not a RINO http://www.gohunter08.com/)
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