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Georgia water shortage
Foxnews.com ^ | 10/17/07 | Associated Press

Posted on 10/18/2007 3:55:58 AM PDT by msrngtp2002

Georgia Officials Threaten to Sue Corp of Engineers Over Draining Reservoirs

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atlanta; georgia; water; waterwars
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All this finger pointing going on over water. Asking people to take shorter showers, and stop watering their lawn.

Want to conserve water? Triple the price! I have not seen anyone propose that step yet.

1 posted on 10/18/2007 3:55:59 AM PDT by msrngtp2002
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To: msrngtp2002

All our problems would be solved if we only reduce our population by 50%.


2 posted on 10/18/2007 3:58:03 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: msrngtp2002

The problem here is not that we don’t have water, it is that we are letting all that we captured go thanks to the ineptitude of the COE. Earlier this year they discovered a faulty gauge that had been over releasing millions of gallons for who know how long. Oops was all that was said or done about it.


3 posted on 10/18/2007 4:03:36 AM PDT by doodad
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To: doodad

Gotta take care of the purple bankclimber, yanno.


4 posted on 10/18/2007 4:06:24 AM PDT by Terabitten (Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets - E-Frat '94. Unity and Pride!)
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To: doodad

What should have been done about it?


5 posted on 10/18/2007 4:10:16 AM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace

How about remove their control of said facilty? I loved the quotes on the radio from the commander of the dam. How his hands were tied and they could not legally do anything etc. No common sense.


6 posted on 10/18/2007 4:11:55 AM PDT by doodad
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To: Terabitten

Hey if they were delicious and nutritious I might take heed.


7 posted on 10/18/2007 4:12:54 AM PDT by doodad
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To: doodad

It is crazy. And it was reported as a major humanitarian gesture that Stone Mountain did not make it’s snow this year! I had a lady yesterday tell me that she STILL saw a commercial site watering.

The thing is, if everyone cooperated, doing individual things, it would make a difference.


8 posted on 10/18/2007 4:17:39 AM PDT by rightthinkingwoman
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To: msrngtp2002

Or they could fire the inept public employees and get someone who knows how to do their job.


9 posted on 10/18/2007 4:22:34 AM PDT by driftdiver
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To: rightthinkingwoman

I see the same places EVERY morning watering their lawn and Old Milton Pkwy. And somehow, my neighbors plants are all blooming and healthy while my yard and car are brown.


10 posted on 10/18/2007 4:28:35 AM PDT by doodad
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To: doodad

They are saying we have 80 days of drinking water left. It took FOUR years to fill the lake up after they built the dam in the 50’s, with the dam fully closed and “normal” weather!

One of the big reasons we are being bled dry is to protect some endangered mussels in Florida/Alabama as mandated by Federal Environmental Law.

The officer in charge of
the Mobile District which include Lake Lanier is one Col. Byron Jorns. Looks like
a pretty good career officer.

http://www.sam.usace.army.mil/NewsReleases/2007/07-42%20change%20of%20command.pdf

His last command before this one was commander of the Nashville District where he
was personally named in a lawsuit by an environmental group:

http://www.kwalliance.org/news/nwp21complaint.pdf

Don’t know how it was resolved.

My guess is that he won’t stop sending water to the mussels without a change
in the law or a presidential pardon! He needs a “get out of jail free”
letter. President Bush, Help!


11 posted on 10/18/2007 4:35:35 AM PDT by Liberty Ship ("Lord, make me fast and accurate.")
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To: msrngtp2002
Domestic water use is very small compared to agricultural irrigation.

Given the water shortages in Georgia and the problems with large number of immigrants working in Georgia agriculture, they need to try to minimize farming there.

The sweet onions coming in from Mexico are better and cheaper than Vidalia.

12 posted on 10/18/2007 4:38:23 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Terabitten

There’s more to this than the purple backclimber- although Boortz keeps harping on the backclimber. Lake Lanier is not the only resevoir along the system. There is also Lake Seminole. The system also provides drinking water, agricultural irrigation and electricity to people in Alabama, South Georgia and Florida.

Ultimately it comes down to poor planning, which is the Georgia way. Everyone saw this problem coming a mile away and yet what have city and state officials done to prepare? Florida cities have been installing reclaimed systems for irrigation, and have already eliminated their combined sewer systems.

Atlanta was about as prepared for this predicatble crisis as New Orleans was for Katrina. Like Nagin and Blanco, the Georgia people are blaming everyone else.


14 posted on 10/18/2007 4:48:53 AM PDT by bobjam
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: msrngtp2002

Yesterday, here in upstate SC, we were told that we may have to “help” Atlanta with their water supply from Lake Hartwell and other water sources here in SC. Well, we are still in a battle with NC over watersheds on the border. I say lets see how GA helps itself before bleeding the Carolinas. The Governor needs to take control of the water supplies with the national guard. Of course my capitalistic selfishness says we could sell SC water to GA for a nice price, not just give it to them.


16 posted on 10/18/2007 4:50:21 AM PDT by Babsig (www.genesysitsolutions.com)
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To: doodad

You should definitely let somebody know.

I hear ya, no mums this year, just $ down the drain.


17 posted on 10/18/2007 4:59:11 AM PDT by rightthinkingwoman
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: bobjam

Concur. However, the needs other than “mussel support” would require the release of far less than the 2,000,000,000 (two billion) gallons currently being released from the reservoir daily.

And, I agree that Atlanta, and metro Atlanta, has been a ship of fools for the last 40 years. We will die at the hands of environmentalism and mindless boosterism inflicted on the region with no regard for consequence.

Extreme over development in the Atlanta region causes a dome of hot air. You can watch rain systems go around us. They keep paving and developing and the yankees keep-a-coming. I think the region should be depopulated on a last in, first out basis!


19 posted on 10/18/2007 5:02:03 AM PDT by Liberty Ship ("Lord, make me fast and accurate.")
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To: Babsig
Gov. Sonny Perdue said he will sue.

"The Corps' nonsensical action to further release vital water from Georgia's already depleted federal reservoirs must not stand," he said.

Federal reservoirs. There's the problem.

20 posted on 10/18/2007 5:02:31 AM PDT by decimon
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To: Ben Ficklin

Vidalia is in south GA where the problem is not as big. They have had rainfall and have sedimentary aquifers that they use extensively. The majority of the state is still allowed to water outdoors.


21 posted on 10/18/2007 5:02:57 AM PDT by doodad
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To: Babsig

Sorry, I meant the reply to be to ‘All’ and not to you.


22 posted on 10/18/2007 5:05:38 AM PDT by decimon
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To: rightthinkingwoman

I heard from a friend a few days ago that landscapers and nurseries are dropping like flies. My wife noticed payment problems at her work with those in the business as well.

Fascinating that the drought and downturn in real estate may accomplish what ICE and screaming have not solved. Buenos Anus amigos.


23 posted on 10/18/2007 5:07:43 AM PDT by doodad
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To: rightthinkingwoman; doodad; msrngtp2002

This is what will happen to healthcare when it is socialized.

A finite resource which people can use without regard to any personal cost or ownership, so there’s no real personal impetus to conserve it...’civic duty’ is never as compelling as the pocketbook.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons


24 posted on 10/18/2007 5:14:22 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: doodad
The problem here is not that we don’t have water, it is that we are letting all that we captured go thanks to the ineptitude of the COE.

I grew up 10 miles from Buford Dam on Lake Lanier. The original purpose for Lake Lanier was for power generation and flood control. Ditto Lake Alatoona. Drinking water and recreation are secondary purposes as cited in the original plan. The state, county and municipal governments agreed to that back in the 1950's before either lake was built. Now that the politico's have mismanaged growth for decades and they've created a water shortage, they want to blame the COE. Meanwhile, as Atlanta runs out of water, unbridled new home construction continues as it has for decades, despite water restrictions, sewer moratoriums, etc. A well placed stack of dead Presidents will get you any permit you need in the 'burbs of Atlanta and it's been that way for at least 30 years that I'm aware of. It's hard for this former Georgian to have much sympathy for those in and around Atlanta when the problems they face were almost completely brought on by their own actions. Oh, and don't expect that same COE to permit a water line from the Tennessee River. That ain't gonna happen.

Putting Atlanta's water woes at the feet of the COE is ignoring the real problem, which is too much growth with too few water resources. This has been known for at least 25 years, yet the growth was allowed to continue. IOW, the powers that be set themselves up for this water shortage.

25 posted on 10/18/2007 5:18:05 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Thinking of voting Democrat? Wake up and smell the Socialism!)
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To: arbooz
"Planning" in the true meaning of the word is not in Georgia's vocabulary.

You presuppose that the purpose of government is to make life better for the citizens. In Atlanta, nothing could be further from the truth. The sole purpose of Atlanta city government is to provide a racial spoils systems for blacks and white liberals with tax dollars and plush sinecures being given out to the friends of the administration. The late and unlamented SOS former mayor of Atlanta, Mainturd Jackson's greatest civic accomplishment was insinuating affirmative action into every city job. His daughter was given the lucrative Friday's Restaurant concession at the airport, the worlds busiest. Shirleyville's (the current name for Atlanta) police chief Richard mmmaPenningammmmaton (formerly from New Orleans where he was considered too incompetent) oversees the corruption in the Atlanta police department, rearrainging the players when they get caught doing things like charging personal trips to the taxpayers. However, he still has time to crusade actively against gun ownership, taking a taxpayer sponsored junket to Was DC when the AWB was due to expire testifying for making it permanent and expanding it

26 posted on 10/18/2007 5:21:19 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: Babsig
Yesterday, here in upstate SC, we were told that we may have to “help” Atlanta with their water supply from Lake Hartwell and other water sources here in SC.

Not likely to happen without Congressional input. Lakes Burton, Rabun, Seed, and Hartwell are all on the eastern side of the eastern continental divide. For a similar reason, water won't be taken from the Tennessee River, either. The COE's policy is to not allow water to go from one watershed to another without being replaced with something. They only thing Atlanta has to offer in return is treated sewage. Atlanta is going to have one long row to hoe to convince folks in other watersheds to take their processed turds in exchange for clean drinking water.....

27 posted on 10/18/2007 5:23:34 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Thinking of voting Democrat? Wake up and smell the Socialism!)
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To: Thermalseeker
have much sympathy for those in and around Atlanta when the problems they face were almost completely brought on by their own actions.

I must say yours is one of the most ignorant and obnoxious comments I've seen here in a while. How should the ordinary people living here accept the blame for the actions of their government? Did we elect them? Hell no. For the most part government officials are not elected, but hired by other government bureaucrats,* and if you don't like something that the government does, tough s**t, They'll do it anyway. BTW the COE is releasing water at four times the rate of what is flowing in using Lake Lanier to keep the lower river at at artificially higher level. If there were no dam at all, then the lower river would have a lot less water in it.

*Look at the federal government for example. There are about 18,000,000. How many are elected? 537.

28 posted on 10/18/2007 5:30:34 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: Babsig

You DO realize that Hartwell also borders Georgia right? You DO realize that the Dam is actually in Georgia and the main water source for the lake also comes from Georgia? I don’t think you’ll be “selling” us anything.


29 posted on 10/18/2007 5:40:46 AM PDT by fix
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To: msrngtp2002

It’s a shame they can’t get water from eastern Oklahoma. Reservoirs were rising up to 25 feet above normal out there earlier this summer. No way to release water from them without terrible flooding downstream and the rain just kept coming.

Always seems that when one part of the country is in a drought, another part is inundated with rain.


30 posted on 10/18/2007 5:42:02 AM PDT by randita
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To: msrngtp2002

Triple the price and it just hurts the poor. Rich folk do not care what it costs.


31 posted on 10/18/2007 5:44:25 AM PDT by Broker (Mabuhay!)
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To: Broker
Triple the price and it just hurts the poor.

You say this like it was a bad thing. The beloved sacred poor are coddled by everyone, paid for by the taxpayers, and live irresponsible life styles at the public's expense. Why are people poor? Because they do things that keep them poor - make repeated bad life style choices like squirting out children as fast as their reproductive systems can cycle, spending their mony on things like beer cigarettes and lotto tickets and above all not working all that much. Family income ON AVERAGE correlates to the number of hours worked in a week, with the lowest income families working 20 hours or less, middle income families working 40 hours, and higer income families working 80 or more hours a week. Let the "poor" pay.

32 posted on 10/18/2007 5:53:32 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: msrngtp2002

Georgia Officials Threaten to Sue Corp of Engineers Over Draining Reservoirs
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1912775/posts


33 posted on 10/18/2007 5:54:13 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: Ben Ficklin

The sweet onions coming in from Mexico are better and cheaper than Vidalia.

Do you shop in one of the national food chains?/ and if so, please inform me the name of the store.

I have on several occasions purchased the Texas Sweet onion and, have yet found any that will compare with the Vidalia.
A couple of years ago I purchased a forty lb. bag of Texas Sweets, had to use them in cooking they were so strong.


34 posted on 10/18/2007 5:55:09 AM PDT by buck61
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To: Brilliant

Maybe that’s why the govt wants to give birth control to middle school kids...


35 posted on 10/18/2007 5:55:19 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: doodad
Kevin on the Fish yesterday was talking about driving to work in Midtown before dawn, through the area of million dollar and over homes, (not sure what road he was talking about) and almost ALL of the irrigation systems were going. Where is the enforcement?
36 posted on 10/18/2007 5:55:45 AM PDT by georgiagirl_pam
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To: from occupied ga
I must say yours is one of the most ignorant and obnoxious comments I've seen here in a while.

Sorry you find the truth so upsetting, but my comments are based on facts and history. I was born and raised near Atlanta and I'm very familiar with the issues there. You may not like it, and you may choose to shoot the messenger, but the sad reality remains, Atlanta is running out of water and there is no simple solution now that it has been allowed to reach crisis levels. I do find it interesting, though, how you try to make it about me, rather than realizing the problems and dealing with them. Your comments are just an extension and a glaring example of what got ya'll into the problems you face now.

How should the ordinary people living here accept the blame for the actions of their government?

Um, by attending planning commission meetings, local and county commission meetings and becoming vocal about issues before they become a crisis. It's called being a citizen. You can also help by electing congresscritters that support your views. When 70% of the electorate sits out virtually every election, they have no one to blame but themselves. Funny, a few years ago when Atlanta was getting record rainfall, I don't recall anyone stepping up and calling for water restrictions then.

Did we elect them? Hell no. For the most part government officials are not elected, but hired by other government bureaucrats

Yes, you did elect them, or rather, your apathy did.

The ever growing water problems in the Atlanta metro area has been known about for at least 25 years, yet the citizens just let their gubmint continue the building boom without regard to water supply, sewer capacity and the like. Atlanta has been paying million dollar a day fines for their pitiful sewer system for years because the corrupt Atlanta government refused to fix the problem until it became a crisis.

So, no, I don't have any sympathy for Atlanta whatsoever. Deal with it.

37 posted on 10/18/2007 5:56:35 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Thinking of voting Democrat? Wake up and smell the Socialism!)
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To: sam_paine

Careful. Requiring people to internalize costs is not a popular subject, in the world at large or even on this website.


38 posted on 10/18/2007 6:01:04 AM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: Ben Ficklin
We went to Colorado this summer from Missouri. The number of irrigated fields we saw on our trip was just amazing. These enormous wheeled arms just keep going around and around and I have no idea how much water was being used.

Carolyn

39 posted on 10/18/2007 6:03:16 AM PDT by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: msrngtp2002

I have read all the post listed on this issue and, thus for I have not seen any comments pertaining to the next great war?

The next “great war” will not be fought for oil, it will be for water. I haven’t taken the time but, am sure Google will have some article pertaining to the scarcity of future water worries of the world.


40 posted on 10/18/2007 6:04:47 AM PDT by buck61
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: Publius Valerius
internalize costs...not a popular subject... on this website.

Like the people who believe you can be in a labor union and not be a socialist.

Like Larry Craig can do what he does and not be gay.

42 posted on 10/18/2007 6:06:06 AM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: arbooz
The state is occupied alright - not by miserable illegals or busybody Yankees, but rather by contemptible leftist mafia - incompetent and thieving, majority of them black.

Well said! And, that is exactly why I left the Atlanta metro area 19 years ago and why I haven't looked back once. I have fond memories of Atlanta when it was a medium sized city. In those days you could actually afford to go to a Braves or Falcons game and traffic was managable. What Atlanta and the surrounding areas have morphed into now is disgusting in the eyes of this native. Personally, I don't care to ever visit Atlanta again and I do my best to avoid it entirely.

43 posted on 10/18/2007 6:12:09 AM PDT by Thermalseeker (Thinking of voting Democrat? Wake up and smell the Socialism!)
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To: doodad
It was June of 2006. It wasn't millions. It was 22 billion gallons of water - enough for 118 days:

Corps of Engineers "Loses" 22 Billion Gallons of Water

The Governor was already complaining about Corps policy before the spill. I guess they showed him:

Governor Perdue Testifies Before the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works

"In the midst of all of this, the Corps admitted to releasing more than 22 billion gallons of water from Lake Lanier by mistake – at a time when the region was approaching what is traditionally the driest time of the year. By this mistake, they essentially created a “man made” drought on top of a natural drought."

The Corps has of course refused to compensate for their mistake by reducing the releases from Lanier.

One has to wonder at the political orientation of the Corps. The area most affected by draining Lanier is heavily Republican. Making voters miserable is a good way to unseat incumbents. Has the allegedly Republican administration even considered asking the Corps to pretty please put some of the spilled water back (by reducing the releases)?
44 posted on 10/18/2007 6:14:43 AM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: Thermalseeker
Sorry you find the truth so upsetting, but my comments are based on facts and history

So your unsupported opinion has now been raised to the level of truth.

I do find it interesting, though, how you try to make it about me, rather

I do find it interesting that you try to make it about the citizens who live there rather than the officials who caused the problem, not to mention that the COE is releasing water from the dam at foru times the rate it's flowing in. This is the fault of the citizens? Not likely.

Um, by attending planning commission meetings, local and county commission meetings and becoming vocal about issues before

What utter horse manure. By your own admission the fix is in in most of these things. A citizen getting "vocally involved" is just wasting their time unless they're pushing the preferred socialist agenda, and then they serve the role of "useful idiot"

Yes, you did elect them, or rather, your apathy did.

No I didn't elect them. I guess you're not able to do the math, but I'll say it again 99.9% of government bureaucrats are NOT elected.

because the corrupt Atlanta government refused to fix the problem until it became a crisis.

Atlanta government is voted in on a racial basis. The sole function of the Atlanta government is to dispers taxpayer loot to blacks and other friends of the black democrat crooks who run the city, so tell me how Anyone living the the suburbs can affect that. (Yeah, get "vocally involved" - my ass)

Solution: cut the runoff downstream to that which would be coming in after. Don't use the reservoir to keep an artificially high flow rate.

45 posted on 10/18/2007 6:18:41 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: ItisaReligionofPeace

The Corps should have cut back on relases to compensate for the spill (of 22 billion gallons). They should also have cut back in response to the drought. Last month, they released 35 times as much water from Lanier as flowed into the lake. We have gone well beyond the enviro wacko ideal of “no dams”. The flow would have been 1/35th as much without the dam (the mussels would all be dead).


46 posted on 10/18/2007 6:19:19 AM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: CDHart

A lot. About half of all water used (71 billion gallons out of 140 billion gallons per day) is used for irrigation. Only about 13.1 billion gallons per day is used for public and rural water supply. The rest is industry and power production.

Source: http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/387_u_s_water_withdrawals_and_consumptive.html


47 posted on 10/18/2007 6:21:12 AM PDT by Air Force Brat
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To: arbooz
The state is occupied alright - not by miserable illegals or busybody Yankees, but rather by contemptible leftist mafia - incompetent and thieving, majority of them black.

Yep one of the several occupying bodies that the rest of us would be better off without, althoug busybody yankees and illegal aliens are also in abundant supply.

48 posted on 10/18/2007 6:22:15 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: msrngtp2002

Excellent idea! If the various municipalities paid for the amount used and charged consumers enough to make a profit, other water sources would have already been tapped and there would be no problem.


49 posted on 10/18/2007 6:23:09 AM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: Thermalseeker
So, no, I don't have any sympathy for Atlanta whatsoever. Deal with it.

Atlanta has nukes.

Give us yer f&*$in' water or we'll kill yer a&&.

50 posted on 10/18/2007 6:25:35 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Why isnít this in Breaking News????)
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