Robot Cannon Kills 9, Wounds 14

Wired | 18 Oct 2007 | Noah Shachtman

[Spktyr]

We're not used to thinking of them this way. But many advanced military weapons are essentially robotic -- picking targets out automatically, slewing into position, and waiting only for a human to pull the trigger. Most of the time. Once in a while, though, these machines start firing mysteriously on their own. The South African National Defence Force "is probing whether a software glitch led to an antiaircraft cannon malfunction that killed nine soldiers and seriously injured 14 others during a shooting exercise on Friday."

SA National Defence Force spokesman brigadier general Kwena Mangope says the cause of the malfunction is not yet known...

Media reports say the shooting exercise, using live ammunition, took place at the SA Army's Combat Training Centre, at Lohatlha, in the Northern Cape, as part of an annual force preparation endeavour.

Mangope told The Star that it “is assumed that there was a mechanical problem, which led to the accident. The gun, which was fully loaded, did not fire as it normally should have," he said. "It appears as though the gun, which is computerised, jammed before there was some sort of explosion, and then it opened fire uncontrollably, killing and injuring the soldiers."

[Spktyr]

What idiot makes an automated weapons system with no kill switch???

Oh - ED209 was unavailable for comment.

[Spktyr]

Entire article link: http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/10/robot-cannon-ki.html

[SatinDoll]

I find this suspicious. It is almost as though it had been written, as a movie script, by someone in Hollywood.

[FreedomCalls]

[punster]

To err is human.

To really screw things up, you need a computer.

Other variations:

To err is human.

To really screw things up, you need a congressional committee.

etc.

[Westlander]

Actually my hometown, Detroit, could really use this.

[chaos_5]

How about a congressional committee with a computer...

[Stoat]

Oerlikon 35mm Twin Field Air Defence Gun Type GDF-005

 

Oerlikon GDF-005

 

 

---

MAIN FEATURES
• Automatic reloaders which make it possible to feed and fire all the ammunition available on the gun without manual intervention
• Computer controlled Gun-King sighting system for 3-Dimensional target tracking with laser range finder
• Optimized Oerlikon 35mm type KDC automatic cannon with breech recoil brake, rate of attenuation and firing pin lock
• Weapon cover with built in automatic breech block lubrication
• Power supply system integrated with the gun
• 1 person gun operation
• Large supply of ready to fire ammunition on gun (280 rounds)
• Integrated full camouflage available as an option

TECHNICAL DATA
• Gun - Calibre - 35mm
• Rate of Fire - 2 x 550 = 1100 rounds/min
• Muzzle Velocity - 1175 m/s
• Barrel Length (90 cal) - 3150 mm
• Weight w/ammunition - 7700 kg
• Weight w/o ammunition - 7250 kg

GUN-KING 3-D SIGHT SYSTEM
• Periscope - Enlargement - 8x
• Periscope - Field of Vision - 8 deg.
• Laser - range - 4km
• Digital Microcomputer (max hit range) - 4 km

AMMUNITION
• Types - HEI, HEI-T, HEI-P, SAPHEI-T, TP, TP-T
• Mass of round - approx 1562 g
• Mass of projectile - approx 550 g
• Length of round - approx 387 mm

 

****************************************************************************************************************

• Gun - Calibre - 35mm
• Rate of Fire - 2 x 550 = 1100 rounds/min
• Muzzle Velocity - 1175 m/s

ummmm....yep, that's something that you don't want to get in front of..

[rednesss]

"Oh - ED209 was unavailable for comment."

I do not find you amusing. Put down your weapon, you have 15 seconds to comply!

[lesser_satan]

If it's going to slaughter innocent bystanders, at least they could make it aesthetically pleasing.

[Berlin_Freeper]

> Shall we play a game?

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

Echoes of HAL....

Though 2001: A Space Odyssey was a fairly lame movie.

[rmlew]

ummmm....yep, that's something that you don't want to get in front of..
You don't want to be in anything short of a tank in front of that.

The South Africans make some beautiful wheeled LAVs, but 10mm of steel may as well be cardboard to a 35mm HEI-T or SAPHEI-T (semi-armour piercing, high explosive, incendiary tracer) round.

[Mobile Vulgus]

Is it possible to place one of these canons in Congress?

[weegee]

People have no problems with computers/robots giving traffic tickets. How many would be prepared to let an ATM shoot to kill if it suspected that you were “robbing” the machine or attempting to get money from “someone else’s” account.

[familyop]

It was probably running on Java or C#.

[Tall_Texan]

[RichInOC]

"Dick, I'm very disappointed."

[ArtDodger]

General Dichead, “Nice toy you have here. What does this button do?”

“Click”

Brrrp!

General Dichead, “Oops! I mean, I didn’t push any button. It just started shooting. Right? RIGHT??”

[DeltaZulu]

Couldn’t be Java. The gun was way too fast. Couldn’t be C# either. Gun’s probably aren’t supported hardware. Sounds more like unmanaged code like C++. This whole incident adds a completely new dimension to the term ‘invalid pointer’.

[Dumpster Baby]

"Sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that...."

[familyop]

"Couldn’t be Java. The gun was way too fast. Couldn’t be C# either. Gun’s probably aren’t supported hardware. Sounds more like unmanaged code like C++. This whole incident adds a completely new dimension to the term ‘invalid pointer’."

I was joking. ...could even have been assembly. Most civilian "embedded" (custom device oriented) projects continue to find developers who are stuck in C, although that might change as machines get much faster soon, and more projects, much larger.

And you probably already know that runaway processes can be caused by many other things, too: bad peripheral devices, climate conditions,...

[Pylon]

I had the same problem with my PC until I switched to Firefox.

[mad_as_he$$]

Software traps and watchdog timers are prudent in any system where humans can be harmed.

[Robert A. Cook, PE]

Oh Shiitte!

(Now, he wonders cynically, would the brasses’ response be different if the automatic cannon had swept through the benches and reviewing stand where the brass were standing?)

[beebuster2000]

did u notice that on full auto it can only fire for 12 seconds before dry?

[familyop]

"This whole incident adds a completely new dimension to the term ‘invalid pointer’."

Those can be really hard to catch before production use--especially without peer code reviews and much runtime testing.

[familyop]

"Software traps and watchdog timers are prudent in any system where humans can be harmed."

That's true, and thanks. ...another good reminder for newbies like me. :-)

[vetvetdoug]

In other news, James Watson is being stripped of his duties at the University he works for making disparaging remarks about ethnic intelligence.....

[Lion Den Dan]

What idiot makes an automated weapons system with no kill switch???

Ask Dr, Watson.

[SmithL]

Doncha’ just hate it when that happens?

[dfwgator]

Actually my hometown, Detroit, could really use this.

I'll buy that for a dollar.

[Trueblackman]

How did I know, when I saw this thread that ED-209 would make a guest appearance?

[MinuteGal]

Hey, guys.....you hafta aim the cannon AWAY from you.

Leni

[444Flyer]

I know this is gonna sound crazy, but I think one of those is the Governor of California!

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Though 2001: A Space Odyssey was a fairly lame movie.

Yeah, but "2010: Odyssey Two" was a hell of a good one...and it actually made sense out of the first one.

[Doohickey]

Only when attempting automation do people discover that while automation can certainly save time and resources, it will tend to be somewhat...shall we say...indiscriminate.

[Just another Joe]

It was the BAD robot from Robocop 2 – Cain!

[The_Media_never_lie]

Had the designers not seen the Terminator movies?

[Dick Vomer]

I'm sure the after action report went something like this....

Sir right before everybody died I saw this.....

[Spktyr]

More importantly, they’d never seen the “ED-209 in the boardroom scene” from Robocop.

[Calvin Locke]

I think the first robot killing a human was a screw-driver robot in Japan.

Not exactly sure of the details, such as access/entry/power restrictions, but some worker managed to get between the machine and the intended screw hole.

That was back in the 1980s.

[BBell]

Considering 2001: A Space Odyssey was done in 1968 I thought is was great.

[FreedomCalls]

I think the first robot killing a human was a screw-driver robot in Japan. Not exactly sure of the details, such as access/entry/power restrictions, but some worker managed to get between the machine and the intended screw hole. That was back in the 1980s.

And in the 70s the Russians had a tank with an autoloader mechanism that sometimes would load the weapons soldier into the breach instead of the intended shell if he got in the way in the cramped area.

[Calvin Locke]

I watched one of the shows on the Abrams tank. Not all that much clearance for the loader in position for the shot, that is the recoil.

I'm not sure how exactly the Soviet autoloader worked, but the US Army declined to add one because of the maintenance of an additional 80-100 parts.

From the cycle time of the Iraqi Soviet built tanks, 20-30 seconds, iirc, it didn't give them any advantage in a real combat situation.

[RichInOC]

“You know vat ve gonna do nowwwww?”
“Nyet...”
“Unpimp ze tank!”

[SatinDoll]

Oh My Gawd! You mean he was literally, actually, screwed with a screw-driving robot!!

[Moonman62]

Considering 2001: A Space Odyssey was done in 1968 I thought is was great.

Considering that it started production in 1964, it's even greater.

[MarkL]

Skynet???

[MarkL]

I watched one of the shows on the Abrams tank. Not all that much clearance for the loader in position for the shot, that is the recoil.

One of my co-workers used to be a loader, and yes, there's NO clearance during the recoil of the main gun. There's a safety gate, however my co-worker told me that it's not used because it gets in the way. He said that it was a very ugly way to find ones self in the hospital with numerous broken bones, and an occassional medical discharge.

He also told me of the time there was a mixup in the round loaded in the main gun, and the calibration switch on the gun sight during a live fire exercise... He told me that the round overshot the target by about 5 miles.

Mark