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Marine Dress Code Changes Communities (No Cammies Allowed Off Base)
Breitbart ^ | 10/19/2007 | CHELSEA J. CARTER

Posted on 10/19/2007 2:09:06 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd

OCEANSIDE, Calif. (AP) - The Marine Corps is taking on the role of fashion police. Earlier this year, the Marine Corps commandant updated the regulations on what Marines can and cannot wear, on duty and off, in the United States. Among the fashion don'ts: No shiny metal or gems on your teeth, no designs carved in your hair, no flashy jewelry and no bare midriffs or excessive cleavage.

But it is Gen. James T. Conway's ban on the wearing of camouflage uniforms, or "cammies," off base that is getting the most attention, changing not only the appearance of the Marines but also the look of their communities.

Under the new regulation, Marines in camouflage cannot get out of their vehicles to run an errand or grab a meal on their way to or from the base. No pumping gas, running into the post office or picking up a cup of joe, either.

Although Marines were always largely prohibited from wearing uniforms off base, they were allowed to make brief stops during their commutes. Now they can stop only for a medical emergency, a traffic accident or a breakdown.

Around Oceanside, a community about 35 miles north of San Diego where Marines from neighboring Camp Pendleton are a common sight, the most noticeable effect is at fast food drive-thrus. Long lines are forming because Marines in uniform are not allowed to get out of their cars and go inside.

John Alexander, who works at GI Joe's, a military surplus store, said customers don't drop in during the middle of the day anymore, though business picks up in the late afternoon.

"There's no such thing as a quick trip anymore," he said.

Navy Senior Chief David Matthews, 39, said the scene is the same in Jacksonville, N.C., outside Camp Lejeune. Matthews said some Marines and Navy personnel have come up with creative ways to run errands during duty hours.

"They get a buddy who has civilian clothes on to go with them. They drive and wait while their buddy gets out of the car and runs the errand," he said.

Marines caught in uniform off base can get a warning; for repeat offenses, they can be restricted to their barracks and their pay can be docked.

While the military has always had strict guidelines for what service members can wear, even out of uniform, Conway said the updated regulations are about maintaining Marine "uniformity and pride in appearance."

"It wasn't that Marines were blatantly breaking the rules. It was more of a tradition, and we just needed to get it back in the box, put it in writing and say here's the policy, here's the rules," said Staff Sgt. Jesse Lora, a spokesman at Camp Pendleton.

Earlier this year, the Marines banned extra-large tattoos below the elbow or the knee, saying such body art is harmful to the Corps' spit- and-polish image.

Some businesses are getting creative to cope with the no-cammies-off- base rule, which was issued in July.

In Oceanside, the Colimas Mexican Restaurant, popular for its takeout lunch, now runs a sort of carhop service for Marines, who call in their orders and then wait in their cars for delivery out front.

Andrea Cerda, who works at Dorothy's Military Shop, a tailor shop, said it is not uncommon to see Marines changing clothes in their car, wriggling out of their pants and boots and into civilian wear.

"You see them bending around their steering wheel or moving back and forth in the driver's seat and you know what they are doing," she said.

During a quick trip recently to drop off dry cleaning in Oceanside, Lance Cpl. Nicholas Doucakis, 20, had to change clothes on base. He said the regulation didn't bother him.

"If you are a Marine, they want you to look a certain way," he said. "I guess in a way they don't want you to look like a disgrace to society."

As for other branches of the military, Army soldiers can wear combat uniforms off base, and Navy personnel can wear some uniforms off base and off ship.

Under the updated Marine regulations, women are prohibited from baring their midriffs, wearing any lingerie-type clothing on the outside or wearing low-slung pants or blouses that show excessive cleavage.

"On the topic of wearing lingerie as outerwear, is the commandant kidding?" said TV style guru Tim Gunn of Bravo's "Project Runway." "Has this really been an issue? Surely, the Marines aren't accepting Britney into their ranks."


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: marines; usmc
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No cammies allowed off base.

I don't get it.

1 posted on 10/19/2007 2:09:15 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd
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I was in the Marine Corps from 1988-92, and we weren’t allowed to wear cammies off base. When did the rule change to allow it ???


2 posted on 10/19/2007 2:12:52 PM PDT by svanni
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To: archy; freema

Marine ping.


3 posted on 10/19/2007 2:13:01 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd
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To: Responsibility2nd
Sounds like some general has let his Politically Correct Napoleonic ego go to his damn head.

I disagree with this order and it really does make me angry.

4 posted on 10/19/2007 2:13:31 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Sounds like some general has let his Politically Correct Napoleonic ego go to his damn head.

I disagree with this order and it really does make me angry.

5 posted on 10/19/2007 2:13:39 PM PDT by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: OKIEDOC

Now we won’t get a chance to pick up the tab for them in a restaurant. One of life’s greatest pleasures.


6 posted on 10/19/2007 2:18:52 PM PDT by Wage Slave (Good fences make good neighbors. -- Robert Frost)
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To: Responsibility2nd
I don't get it

I get it. There used to be such a thing as a "Walking Out" uniform. The messiness began a long time ago when folks started going off base in BDUs.

It's like that other abomination "Office Casual." Or what Americans now wear to shop at Wal-Mart. Pierced and tattooed 250-lb teenagers with bare midriffs (both sexes) are OK at Disneyland perhaps (where no sane person of my generatiion would be caught dead anyway), but not in the military.

7 posted on 10/19/2007 2:19:37 PM PDT by Zerodown (Draft Petraeus. Or how about Pace? What do you say we win this one?)
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To: OKIEDOC
I disagree with this order and it really does make me angry

It was a standard order when I was in. Didn't bother me.

8 posted on 10/19/2007 2:20:28 PM PDT by chesty_puller (70-73 USMC VietNam 75-79 US Army Wash DC....VietNam was safer.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Back in ‘52, when the old salts got tired of us boots bitching about not being allowed to wear Levis, shirts w/o collars (no t-shirts) etc. they would tell us how—in the OLLLD Corps—at Quantico, for instance, Marines had to wear a coat and tie just to go to the base flik.

Usually, off base uniform was winter greens/summer khaki w/field scarf (no short-sleeve shirts in those days), w/barracks cap—sewed-up c-caps were out—had to show liberty cards to MPs going ashore at maingate and/or on the liberty bus. Dungarees off the base was unthinkable.


9 posted on 10/19/2007 2:20:57 PM PDT by gunnyg
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To: Responsibility2nd

I as attached to the Marines 1990-1994. No cammies allowed off base. Also no flat-tops, shaved heads (unless you were bald), tattoes not covered by the uniform ect.


10 posted on 10/19/2007 2:21:24 PM PDT by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: OKIEDOC
You have to understand, these orders always come down at the end, or near the end, of wars. During the Vietnam War, uniform restrictions remained in force but there was a great deal of evasion, which was not punished. As the War ended, the Corps began to tighten up uniform regulations, as well as restrictions governing the length of hair.
Most Marines understand the tightening of regulations and adjust. Its the public that has a hard time with the change.
11 posted on 10/19/2007 2:22:18 PM PDT by quadrant
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To: svanni
When did the rule change to allow it ???
I don't know, but it's about-damn-time they changed it back. I've seen too many Marines in cammies in public, on TV, etc., and it looks like hell.
Semper Fi ...
12 posted on 10/19/2007 2:23:22 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Both the Marine Corps and the Army seem to go through this cycle every few years.


13 posted on 10/19/2007 2:23:34 PM PDT by Rogle
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To: Responsibility2nd

While I think it’s alittle much to keep Marines from getting out of thier car with BDU’s..however here we are near an Air Force base but far enough away that the guys feel there is no need for covers or military bearing..in the case of “These” types perhaps they shouldn’t be seen representing the “Military”..(asbestos suit being put on becuase of the anti wing nut comments!)

When I was in we could do QUICK trips but no shopping at Walmart or sit down resaurants. Seemed to work for me..


14 posted on 10/19/2007 2:24:49 PM PDT by conservativehusker (GO BIG RED!!!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Unfortunately, the State of California does not appreciate the military. Camis give the distinction of being a warfighter. The American public and those who have not served however can wear any thing that looks military.


15 posted on 10/19/2007 2:26:03 PM PDT by NY Attitude (You are responsible for your safety until the arrival of Law Enforcement Officers!)
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To: gunnyg

I was in mid to late 60s and while the rules and regs weren’t quite as strict as “Old Corps” days, they were damn close. Semper Fi ...


16 posted on 10/19/2007 2:26:57 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Responsibility2nd
It’s something that comes and goes.

What happens is fatigues are allowed of post/base, many use the policy, then some start to abuse it, no hats, no jackets, boots unbloused, etc.

The Marines have cracked down for now. The troops will survive.

17 posted on 10/19/2007 2:29:51 PM PDT by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: Responsibility2nd

McDonald’s drive throughs are a result of a similar rule. The franchisee in Sierra Vista, Az, set up a drive up window after soldiers at Fort Huachuca faced a similar restriction. (mid 1970s)


18 posted on 10/19/2007 2:32:10 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Responsibility2nd

Some of you “older” jarheads may get a kick out of this one...

http://tinyurl.com/277acg
http://tinyurl.com/277acg

Dick Gaines
~~~~~~~~~~


19 posted on 10/19/2007 2:32:30 PM PDT by gunnyg
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To: Responsibility2nd

Two things, if I may.

First: When I was active “way back when” we were not allowed to wear “Statesides” or “Jungles” off base, period. Civies or Dress Uniform only.

Second: In Oceanside, the Colimas Mexican Restaurant, popular for its takeout lunch, now runs a sort of carhop service for Marines, who call in their orders and then wait in their cars for delivery out front.

I don’t remember this restaurant from my days at Pendelton, but the attitude of the day was that the locals would rather throw rocks or spit at us.

Jim USMC ‘73


20 posted on 10/19/2007 2:34:27 PM PDT by gaemes
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To: gunnyg

Navy in the early 60’s was dress blues/whites off base, no undress or dungarees.


21 posted on 10/19/2007 2:34:59 PM PDT by Roccus (Hillary........brought to you by the PRC)
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To: Responsibility2nd

My dad was career military (Airborne) and his fatigues were always starched and ironed. You could cut butter with the creases. See your reflection in his spit shined jump boots.

Damn right he wore them off base.

Airborne All The Way!!


22 posted on 10/19/2007 2:35:19 PM PDT by garyhope (It's World War IV, right here, right now, courtesy of Islam.)
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To: PeteB570

I guess.

All I know is that - living in San Antonio as I do - I see soldiers and airmen every day in various uniforms.

I’m proud to see them, and I’m sure they take great pride in doing their jobs as they proudly wear their unifirms.

I can’t imagine a Marine would show disrespect for himself or the Corps by being “out of uniform”.

Am I to guess that Marines have problems the other armed forces don’t?


23 posted on 10/19/2007 2:36:09 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd
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To: Responsibility2nd; Brucifer
No cammies allowed off base.



Don't tell Jessica.
24 posted on 10/19/2007 2:36:57 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: chesty_puller
It was a standard order when I was in. Didn't bother me

Same here.

25 posted on 10/19/2007 2:39:06 PM PDT by conservonator
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To: conservativehusker

“...Air Force base but far enough away that the guys feel there is no need for covers or military bearing.”

Air Force wears uniforms?


26 posted on 10/19/2007 2:40:46 PM PDT by dakine
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To: Responsibility2nd
It's about time the Corps started getting back to the basics. Wearing civilian clothes off base is a priviledge, not a right. Wearing cammies off base never should have been allowed in the first place. Conway and the rest of the leadership need to keep on charging, so that Marines will remember who they are and what makes them great. Acting and dressing like the rest of the branches just makes them military... not Marines.

/s/ Heldog, USMC Vet

27 posted on 10/19/2007 2:48:36 PM PDT by BigAlPro (It's time to flush the toilet of political corruption in Washington)
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To: svanni

I was active duty from ‘92 to ‘97, and we weren’t allowed then, either.


28 posted on 10/19/2007 2:50:23 PM PDT by FoxInSocks
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To: Responsibility2nd

Was that way when I was in,,probably still in the regs.


29 posted on 10/19/2007 2:54:11 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

That is how it always was when I first enlisted in 1964. I still can’t get used to BDUs in the air terminal. If they are coming back from or deploying to OCONUS, fine, but otherwise, Class B minimum or civies.


30 posted on 10/19/2007 3:00:02 PM PDT by Redleg Duke ("All gave some, and some gave all!")
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To: Responsibility2nd

What is the big deal? We were not allowed off-base in utilities (what we called them then) under any circumstance when not on duty in the 60’s.


31 posted on 10/19/2007 3:01:05 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: chesty_puller

I met Chesty Puller at Quantico in 1969. In this long life of mine, I haven’t met anyone whose mere presence was a impressive as that man. I hope you can live up to the name(just kidding, no one could)

The thought of being of base in fatigues just doesn’t seem Marine.


32 posted on 10/19/2007 3:03:38 PM PDT by Free_SJersey (THE GOVERNMENT THAT GOVERNS LEAST, GOVERNS BEST.)
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To: OKIEDOC

1961-1981, We could only travel to and from home.
NO getting out of car for any reason.

I don’t understand your problem with this order.


33 posted on 10/19/2007 3:07:50 PM PDT by TaMoDee
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To: silentreignofheroes

Thank God for the Marines.

As an old army EM, I never knew that there was such a thing as:
“excessive cleavage”


34 posted on 10/19/2007 3:07:57 PM PDT by benewton
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To: Free_SJersey
I hope you can live up to the name

Hell no! I fought war pretty well, but there ain't no Navy Crosses in my closet.

35 posted on 10/19/2007 3:08:18 PM PDT by chesty_puller (70-73 USMC VietNam 75-79 US Army Wash DC....VietNam was safer.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
This is such Bull$hit!

Since when does a Marine have to be ashamed to look like a Marine?!

I get sick and tired of the PC Liberal Pukes being offended.

Its the same sort of crap they try to force Hunter Safety Instructors to teach to young hunters...Never wear hunting cloths to the market or Restaurant, some liberal puke anti-hunter might be offended!

I say let them pukes be offended if the want! They can’t whoop nobody!

36 posted on 10/19/2007 3:08:33 PM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: Rogle
Both the Marine Corps and the Army seem to go through this cycle every few years.

The Army wears their new ACUs everywhere.

37 posted on 10/19/2007 3:10:07 PM PDT by TankerKC (32570 21R)
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To: Beagle8U

That’s the point, in camis or fatigues, a Marine can look just as sloppy as an Air Force Airman (okay, maybe not quite as sloppy unless he slept in his clothes for a week).

This is not something new, it goes with Marine tradition to not only be the proud , the few, but to look it too.


38 posted on 10/19/2007 3:28:16 PM PDT by Free_SJersey (THE GOVERNMENT THAT GOVERNS LEAST, GOVERNS BEST.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

This is stupid. At least the Navy is smart enough to allow its personnel to fill their car up on gas while on the way to base. Does it really hurt the military bearing of your service that much if you have a servicemember who is following uniform standards that goes into a gas station for 30 seconds and pays for gas?


39 posted on 10/19/2007 3:28:51 PM PDT by burzum (None shall see me, though my battlecry may give me away -Minsc)
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To: Responsibility2nd

This new rule was the old rule in 80-84.


40 posted on 10/19/2007 3:30:36 PM PDT by idkfa
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To: OKIEDOC

I don’t think we were ever supposed to wear utilities off base. This order doesn’t appear to change any rule so much as it eliminates some informal exceptions which appear to have crept in. Maybe the article isn’t clear, but Marine service and dress uniforms are deemed appropriate for off-base wear.


41 posted on 10/19/2007 3:32:26 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Responsibility2nd
The way a man looks in a Marine uniform...ALL Marines should wear 'em where EVER they go!! ...sigh...


42 posted on 10/19/2007 3:35:30 PM PDT by bannie
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To: Free_SJersey
Well, the article just came out as reading they have to hide the fact they are Marines.

I can see urging them to wear a dress uniform off base but not requiring it for a quick stop at burger-doodle.

If a solider is active duty they should look like it IMHO and that would include any issued uniform suitable for the occasion.
BDU’s should be fine for Walmart and burger doodle.

43 posted on 10/19/2007 3:42:48 PM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Under the new regulation, Marines in camouflage cannot get out of their vehicles to run an errand or grab a meal on their way to or from the base. No pumping gas, running into the post office or picking up a cup of joe, either.

No different than the 70's, I wasn't allowed to go shopping in my cammies or pump gas, just drive from base to home, that's it.

Not that we always obeyed that regulation...

44 posted on 10/19/2007 3:42:58 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty; The Pendleton 8: We are not going down without a fight)
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To: benewton

Same here,I’m an old EM,,clevage,,,clevage,never read that TM/FM/TB or change,,were we kept in the dark or what.
Some do’nt realize ,,spitting on the sidewalk,,is covered under the UCMJ..


45 posted on 10/19/2007 3:47:56 PM PDT by silentreignofheroes (When the Last Two Prophets are taken, there will be no Tommorrow!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I work full time for the Air National Guard right now. We are not ‘spost to wear our BDU’s off base except for quick stops. I wear them to Burger King or to the bank during my lunch period, but I am shocked to see people going to grocery stores and Best Buy in BDUs. One Army girl was even wearing no BDU Blouse with her BDU pants. It is pretty disrespectful to the uniform.


46 posted on 10/19/2007 3:48:24 PM PDT by psycho3lf
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To: Liberty Valance

Gives whole new meaning to: “Stand up and salute the flag”. :)


47 posted on 10/19/2007 3:48:47 PM PDT by AFreeBird (Will NOT vote for Rudy. <--- notice the period)
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To: Zerodown

SoCal hood wear meets the USMC .... surprised he did not mention slacks hanging down Homer Simpson stylie .... LOL!


48 posted on 10/19/2007 3:49:39 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Beagle8U

“If a solider is active duty they should look like it IMHO”

Again, right to the point. A Marine is a Marine and not a soldier. The U.S Army has soldiers, the Unites States Marine Corp have Marines. BIG difference.


49 posted on 10/19/2007 3:54:47 PM PDT by Free_SJersey (THE GOVERNMENT THAT GOVERNS LEAST, GOVERNS BEST.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I don’t understand the ban on uniforms, by any branch, off base. Is this a hold over from the poor treatment of military in past decades?

Are they afraid they will disgrace the uniform?


50 posted on 10/19/2007 3:57:20 PM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Truthism Watch)
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