Posted on 10/23/2007 5:29:45 PM PDT by xcamel
(New York - WABC, October 23, 2007) - Last week, The Investigators went undercover to expose a gaping loophole in New York state's gun laws. Now Governor Eliot Spitzer is promising to examine the problem more closely.
The Investigators Jim Hoffer has the story.
The black powder rifle's exemption from gun laws is one of the last remaining major gun loopholes in the state of New York. But the days of buying this deadly weapon no questions asked may be numbered.
Our undercover investigation showed with alarming clarity just how easy it is to get a black powder rifle in New York.
Be it in a department store or on the Internet, the highly powerful .50 caliber weapon can be purchased without any identification, permit or background check.
That's because the black powder gun is muzzle loaded and therefore classified as antique -- and state and federal gun laws do not include antique firearms.
We took the issue to the governor, the one most able to do something about it.
Jim Hoffer: "What if anything can you do as governor to try to close this black powder gun loophole?" Governor Spitzer: "We have a number of loophole closing gun-related bills that have been proposed. None of which has moved yet through the legislature, but I will look to see if they cover this particular situation." Hoffer: "And if they don't will you move on that do you think?" Spitzer: "Sure, it's obviously something that bears examination."
Twice in the last four months, the deadly black-powder gun made news. First, a student with a history of psychological problems carried one loaded onto the St. John's University campus. And in June, a convicted rapist with the same kind of gun shot and nearly killed a state police trooper.
"These guns can kill and they should be subject to the same restrictions that other guns are subject to," said Michael Gianaris (D-Queens).
The Queens state lawmaker says after seeing our investigation he'll be introducing legislation to close the loophole that exempts these so-called antique weapons from gun laws.
"Clearly this gun has already done harm to a state trooper, it almost caused a tragedy at St. John's and we have to act quickly to keep them out of the hands of people who shouldn't be holding guns," Gianaris said.
Assemblyman Gianaris plans to introduce the gun bill in the general assembly next week.
Oh for God's sake!
How common are cartridges powered by black powder?
Deadly! Wow, the insane gun grabbers are now going after black powder muzzle-loaders. ABC is such a pile of steaming crap.
They will want your Bows next!
ping your lists
There are no cartidges, loose powder and lead ball.
Not very.. all hand reloaded and very expensive to set up a shop to do it.
Wow I can’t even answer this thread. Brain deaaaaaad
Why are they worried about something that has to be manually loaded?
LOL
I knew this was to happen eventually. They are now after the guns used in the Revolution. Good Grief. NY is CRAZY. I can not really believe this crap.
I don’t believe there are any commercial BP cartridges sold. They exist only by being handloaded for BCPR Rifle match shooters or hobbiests. They are usually for 19th century firearms like Sharps rifles, Remington Rolling Blocks or Colt Single Action revolvers. It’s a segment of recreational shooters and hunters who are generally history buffs with an interest in old guns. Otherwise all BP guns are muzzl-loaders or cap&ball revolvers.
“gaping hole” - apparently they meant the heads of the reporters/assemblymen
Yes
Aptly named: Gun Grabbers Gone Wild
Don’t let the IDIOTS out there fool you into thinking that its “only NYC” that has the fascistic gun laws. No matter where you live in NY State, you must apply for PERMISSION just to OWN a handgun, and pay a large fee. There is also no guarantee that you will be approved.
God, neither can I!
I'm so sick to bleeding gums death of this country being ruled by panzies!
I agree.
NO RESTRICTIONS!
These drooling bed-wetters won’t be satisfied until we have nothing but rubber spoons to protect ourselves with.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD: “Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.” (A sword is never a killer; it is a tool in the killer’s hands.)
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyrrany in government,” Thomas Jefferson.
“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms ...” Richard Henry Lee.
“Americans need not fear the federal government because they enjoy the advantage of being armed, which you possess over the people of almost every other nation.” James Madison
“…The said Constitution be never construed …to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” Samuel Adams
“The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”- James Madison, in the Federalist Papers No. 46 at 243-44
“Large and permanent military establishments which are forbidden by the principles of free government, and against the necessity of which the militia were meant to be a constitutional bulwark.” - James Madison, Fourth Annual Message, November 4, 1812
“An efficient militia is authorized and contemplated by the Constitution and required by the spirit and safety of free government.”- James Madison, Eighth Annual Message, December 3, 1816
“As long as our Government is administered for the good of the people, and is regulated by their will; as long as it secures to us the rights of person and of property, liberty of conscience and of the press, it will be worth defending; and so long as it is worth defending a patriotic militia will cover it with an impenetrable aegis.” Andrew Jackson
“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms,” —Richard Henry Lee, Senator, First Congress
“I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” George Mason, during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788).
“... but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights ...” Alexander Hamilton.
“The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed,” Alexander Hamilton.
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.” Patrick Henry, during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788)
“(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” James Madison, The Federalist Papers
“Suppose that we let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal: still it would not be going to far to say that the State governments with the people at their side would be able to repel the danger...half a million citizens with arms in their hands” James Madison, The Federalist Papers
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. 2nd Amendment
“To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm . . . is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.” Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Even pacifists have an opinion; “Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.” Mahatma Ghandi
“Arms are the only true badges of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave.” Andrew Fletcher (1698)
“Firearms...are the American people’s liberty, teeth and keystone under independence...(f)rom the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that, to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 and 99-100 percent of them by their silence indicate they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence. They deserve a place of honor with all that’s good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”
George Washington
Address to the second session of the First U.S. Congress
January 7, 1790
Has there been a rash of drive-bys with flintlocks that I’m unaware of?
“Thanks for tuning in to the 11 O’Clock news. We start our broad cast with a Channel Seven exclusive....
In the movies Kevin Bacon kills a guy with a spoon. How long can we let this madness continue? All across New York unsuspecting grade school children file into their lunch rooms loaded with spoons.
State Troopers cannot walk into a restaurant without seeing spoons on the tables.
See our feature broadcast after the weather. Now it’s time not to report on the 93 year old Chinese grandmother living in a cardboard box that just donated $300,000 to Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. Instead we will feature Republican attempts to shoot helpless turkeys and deer in upstate.”
I don't know off-hand. I'd bet not, because Kyles mom seems to run that state. You might check the BP gun section in a Cabelas to see it NY is amoung the states they can't ship to. I think Massachusetts (yea I know you're shocked) and Hawaii have outlawed them.
Here’s the video of Suzanne Hupp testifying before congress.
http://www.washingtonceasefire.com/content/view/23/35/
Just one final statement.
I’ve been sitting here getting more and more fed up with all of this talk about these, pieces of machinery, having no legitimate sporting purpose, no legitimate hunting purpose, people, that is not the point of the second amendment!
The second amendment is not about duck hunting, and I know I’m not going to make very many friends saying this, but it’s about our right, all of our right to be able to protect our selves from all of you guys up there.
And nobody’s talked about that.
Dr. Suzanna Gratia, Killeen massacre survivor who watched as her parents were murdered because she obeyed Texas law and left her handgun locked in her car. Appearing before Rep Schumer’s committee hearings on the assault weapons ban
I have a Model ‘94 in .38-55 that belonged to my great grandfather. One of the best all round cartridges ever.
I envy you.
Springfield Armory 1898 Krag 30/40
I would love to get a .30-40 Krag (I'm seriously looking at doing some Spanish-American War re-enacting) but a decent one will run anywhere from $750-1200. The one in the picture is currently on Gunbroker.com with an opening bid of $700.
My BP collection currently consists of a .50cal left-handed rifle and a .44cal revolver.
The greatest threat we face isn’t crazy jihadists, it is crazier damned New Englanders! Really Dammit, I sometimes tend to appreciate mohammed more than I ever could appreciate Eliot, or Bloomie, or Rudy, for that matter.
They are all crazy and dangerous, equally!
Eliot, first damned muzzleloader I ever had, I made. First damned black powder I ever had, I made. The first damned round balls I fired, I made them too, over a charcoal forge, with lead from old car batteries, poured into a mold made from sandstone.
Eliot, you are a retard! I hope there is someone around to change lightbulbs for you.
NYS moves to disarm the populace so that when tax revenues stop covering state salaries, benefits and pensions, external troops will be able to quickly put down the uprisings.
The tree of liberty needs watering.
Why were the British concerned about what was stored at Lexington & Concord?
They won’t be legal for long if NY has its way.
There, fixed it.
The rifles the article mentioned do NOT use cartridges! As the article said, they're going after single shot, muzzle loading rifles (and I'm sure that pistols will be next).
In these weapons, you first have to pour the powder charge down the barrel, and use a ram rod to tamp it down. Next, you either insert a buffer, or a patch, or some sort of sabot, holding a projectile and tamp that down, again using the ram rod. Finally, you arm the weapon with a percussion cap, or if it's really old, add the priming charge, for a flint lock. All told, if you really practice, you can reload one of these babies in about 20 seconds.
Mark
When I lived in Minnesota, someone kill a person with an icicle. I think they should ban ice in NY.
Ahhhhggggg!
I know what you mean. I'm so fricking sick to death of these limp-wristed, whey-faced, squat-to-piss, lace pants sissy la-la's running our lives. I'm really fed-up.
I've frankly got more respect for the jihadis than the mincing, couiffured, tassle-loafered, cowering little punkasses who rule and regulate us. Aghhh!
This is my baby (closest picture) Christian Sharps 45/90 'long ranger' original - re-manufactured from an 1869 CT Arms (Springfield) 79cal paper cartridge series that was returned to CTA by the US Army because "they [the paper cartridge guns] couldn't hit a barn if they were leaning against it"
The order was bought at auction by C. Sharps for $200 for the parts and shipped to Montana, where he turned out these beauties... There are only 10 of them known left to exist.
Thanks for pointing this out. I’ll have to visit Gander Mtn. Soon
I am not convinced that all here even completely understand what they are talking about when they discuss “Black Powder” firearms.
Folks, these are hunting weapons of the purest form (besides maybe simple bow). Once you load them, there is but one way to unload them. You cannot leave them loaded because after a relatively short time, moisture does it’s business on the power and/or “firing cap” and you get a “flash in the pan.” These weapons are mostly long guns. Anyone carrying a black powder pistol with an intent to kill someone would have a knife, stone, log, bat, etc. if not the “black powder pistol.” They are a pain in the a$$ to load. They are usually pretty heavy. You must carry with you a kit to get them ready to fire. Once they are fired, it is an even bigger mess to get them reloaded and ready to fire again.
That said, these are dangerous weapons...TO THE INEXPERIENCED HUNTER CLIMBING A TREE WITH IT LOADED AND COCKED. These are a far cry from the weapon a gangsta thug is looking to purchase on the black market or illegally.
It is a pretty good bet that the politicians no as much about these “dangerous weapons” as they know about Quantum Physics. They are reciting some words to make sentences to appease somebody. I hope they are embarrassed later when someone explains to them exactly what it is they are complaining about.
Rant over.
The branches decorated, at least.
Got to give the jihadis credit for actually having some principles, even if they are wrong. They ain’t in it for the money thing, and neither am I!
Hey, I’m in CT. =p
Maybe they needed beer. :B
/s
SO?
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