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Turkey blames US Jews for genocide bill
JTA /Jerusalem Post ^ | YIGAL SCHLEIFER

Posted on 10/24/2007 11:42:45 AM PDT by SJackson

When a US Congressional committee approved a resolution recognizing the World War I-era massacre of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire as genocide, Turkey's reaction was swift and harsh: Blame the Jews.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Photo: AP In an interview with the liberal Islamic Zaman newspaper on the eve of the resolution's approval October 10 by the US House Committee on Foreign Affairs, Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan said he had told American Jewish leaders that a genocide bill would strengthen the public perception in Turkey that "Armenian and Jewish lobbies unite forces against Turks." Babacan added, "We have told them that we cannot explain it to the public in Turkey if a road accident happens. We have told them that we cannot keep the Jewish people out of this."

The Turkish public seems to have absorbed that message.

An on-line survey by Zaman's English-language edition asking why Turks believed the bill succeeded showed that 22 percent of respondents chose "Jews' having legitimized the genocide claims" - second only to "Turkey's negligence."

US Jewish community leaders reject that argument and privately say Ankara has only itself to blame for its failure to muster the support necessary to derail the resolution, which is seen in Turkey as anti-Turkish.

Resentment lingers in Washington over the Turkish Parliament's failure to approve a March 2003 motion to allow US troops to use Turkish soil as a staging ground for an invasion of Iraq.

And an official visit to Ankara in early 2006 by Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal angered many of Israel's supporters on Capitol Hill, who have been among Turkey's most vocal proponents as part of a strategy of developing strong ties between Turkey and Israel.

"The Hamas thing was really serious," said an official from a large Jewish organization. "There is less sympathy for Turkey because of what some see as an anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Jewish policy that is there."

The official added, "I think there's a sense on the Hill that Turkey is less of an ally. There is a sense that it's a different Turkey."

Soner Cagaptay, coordinator of the Turkish research program at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, echoed that thinking.

"The lingering effects of 2003 resonate," Cagaptay said. "Some people are still angry with Turkey."

Malcolm Hoenlein, executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, said the Jews should not be blamed for the Armenia genocide bill, particularly not by Turkish officialdom.

"We regret that some officials there are trying to lay the onus of what's happened on the Jewish community," Hoenlein told JTA. "They shouldn't allow some people to manipulate this initiative in Congress to the detriment of this relationship, which is beneficial for both sides."

Hoenlein, who met with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan during last month's UN General Assembly, said, "There is the same commitment on the part of the organized community to support Turkey."

Observers in Turkey say the public perception of the Jews' outsized role in the resolution's passage is based on an element of fact mixed with a greater amount of fiction.

In August, the Jewish-run Anti-Defamation League, facing pressure from grassroots activists, reversed its long-held policy of not recognizing the Armenian genocide when ADL National Director Abraham Foxman declared that what happened to the Armenians was "indeed tantamount to genocide."

But Foxman maintained the ADL's position, opposing a congressional resolution on the matter. Such a resolution would strain US-Turkey ties and jeopardize ties between Israel and Turkey, Israel's main Middle Eastern ally.

Nevertheless, the ADL's reversal was seen in Turkey as a major blow to the country's diplomatic and public-relations campaign against Armenian efforts to get a genocide resolution passed in Washington.

"Obviously the ADL's switch was not good news," said Suat Kiniklioglu, a member of the ruling Justice and Development Party and spokesman for the Turkish Parliament's foreign affairs committee.

Mustafa Akyol, an Istanbul-based political commentator who frequently writes about religious issues, said the strong reaction to the ADL's policy switch and the perception that it somehow legitimized the Armenians' claims were based on an "inflated sense" of American Jewish power among the Turkish public.

"There is a belief that [the resolution] couldn't have happened without Jewish support," Akyol said.

The House bill passed the committee by a 27-21 vote, with seven of the committee's eight Jewish members voting in favor of Resolution 106. The full House of Representatives has yet to vote on the resolution.

Yet despite the vote, US Jewish groups said they lobbied against the bill - just as they have done in the past.

"Behind-the-scenes support [from US Jewish groups] has been quite powerful" in persuading congressmen to oppose the bill, said Cagaptay. It may yet help prevent the bill from being brought to a vote in the full House.

Turkish Jewish community leaders declined to be interviewed for this story, but Turkey's Jewish leaders published a full-page advertisement in the Washington Times on the day of the vote voicing their opposition to the House bill.

"We believe this issue should be decided first and foremost on the basis of evidence adduced by historians, not on the basis of judgments by parliamentarians or Congressmen, who naturally (and understandably) may be influenced by concerns other than historical facts," the statement said. "There have been insinuations that our security and well-being in Turkey is linked to the fate of Resolution 106. We are deeply perturbed by any such allegations."

According to Cagaptay, "there is a trilateral relationship, which is Turkey, Israel and the American Jews. The relationship is about good ties between Turkey and Israel, and good ties between Turkey and the American Jewish community, which makes up for the fact that Turkey has not had, historically, a strong presence on the Hill."

This time, however, it seems Jewish opposition to the bill was not enough to overcome support by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), a longtime supporter of Armenian-American issues, who has vowed to bring the bill to a full House vote.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: armenia; armeniangenocide; israel; nancypelosi; turkey

1 posted on 10/24/2007 11:42:47 AM PDT by SJackson
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To: SJackson

Muzzies can’t “argument” without blaming the JOOOOOS.


2 posted on 10/24/2007 11:44:38 AM PDT by SolidWood ("I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.")
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To: SJackson

They should start the blame with Pelosi and Lantos


3 posted on 10/24/2007 11:44:47 AM PDT by b4its2late (~ This Tagline Intentionally Left Blank ~)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel, WOT

..................

4 posted on 10/24/2007 11:45:18 AM PDT by SJackson (every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, none to make him afraid,)
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To: SJackson

Julius Streicher would be downright proud of Nancy’s work.


5 posted on 10/24/2007 11:45:23 AM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: SJackson

Pelosi’s not Jewish...she’s Catholic.


6 posted on 10/24/2007 11:45:56 AM PDT by what's up
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To: what's up

But US Jews do vote more Democrat.


7 posted on 10/24/2007 11:48:17 AM PDT by Azeem (Only thing worse than war is peace at all costs.)
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To: Azeem
Pelosi's the one setting the agenda.

Pressured by all her constituents...gays, liberal catholics, blacks, and yes some Jews.

All of the usual anti-war crowd. They (and ultimately she)are responsible.

8 posted on 10/24/2007 11:51:03 AM PDT by what's up
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To: SJackson

Armenian anti-Semites joined leftists in blaming Jews for blockin the bill and Turkish Islamist blame Jews for supporting the bill.


9 posted on 10/24/2007 11:51:27 AM PDT by rmlew (Build a wall, attrit the illegals, end the anchor babies, Americanize Immigrants)
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To: Azeem

Surefire Nobel Prize for anyone who can explain why
American Jews vote for the Democrats.


10 posted on 10/24/2007 11:53:41 AM PDT by Hans
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To: SJackson

Pelosi is so anti-war that she started a war.


11 posted on 10/24/2007 11:55:18 AM PDT by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.))
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To: rmlew
Armenian anti-Semites joined leftists in blaming Jews for blockin the bill and Turkish Islamist blame Jews for supporting the bill.

Equal opportunity lunacy.

12 posted on 10/24/2007 11:55:44 AM PDT by SJackson (every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, none to make him afraid,)
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To: Azeem
But US Jews do vote more Democrat

So do Swedish Americans. This all about the Democraps undermning the war in Iraq. They could give 2 spits about the Armenian thing from 1906

13 posted on 10/24/2007 11:57:17 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: what's up

That is true. She’s either too stupid to understand her actions or someone is paying her a lot to act stupid.


14 posted on 10/24/2007 11:57:27 AM PDT by Azeem (Only thing worse than war is peace at all costs.)
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To: what's up
"Pelosi’s not Jewish...she’s Catholic."

Pelosi is a CINO (Catholic in name only). Standard liberal, "pro-choice" CINO like Teddy Tubby Swimmer, John "ef" Heinz-Kerry, etc.
15 posted on 10/24/2007 12:00:22 PM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (Hunter and Tancredo in '08! La Raza - the PLO of the Western Hemisphere)
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To: rmlew

As the great Tom Lehrer penned, 40 years ago

Oh the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
And the Hindus hate the moslems
And everybody hates the Jews

But during National Brotherhood week,
National Brotherhood week etc. etc.


16 posted on 10/24/2007 12:01:54 PM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: b4its2late
No better target than to blame a Jew that survived the Holocaust.
17 posted on 10/24/2007 12:02:15 PM PDT by trumandogz (Hunter Thompson 2008)
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To: SJackson

I laughed out loud when I read the title. Well, of course it’s the Jews, it’s always the Jews...the Jews did this, the Jews did that...what would the Muslims, or for that matter, the world do without the Jews to blame? America and the English would have to take all the world’s invective.


18 posted on 10/24/2007 12:03:33 PM PDT by americanophile
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To: Azeem
But US Jews do vote more Democrat.

Then the Turks are right.

19 posted on 10/24/2007 12:03:37 PM PDT by SJackson (every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, none to make him afraid,)
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To: Azeem
She’s either too stupid to understand her actions or someone is paying her a lot to act stupid

The former. All liberals are stupid.

Even the so-called liberal elites. Deep down they are stupid.

20 posted on 10/24/2007 12:05:27 PM PDT by what's up
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To: americanophile

If you recall Turkish officials implied there might be reprecussions for Turkish Jews if the resolution passed. As though that should be a consideration. They really believe the Jews control the west stuff.


21 posted on 10/24/2007 12:05:55 PM PDT by SJackson (every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, none to make him afraid,)
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To: Azeem

The most vitriolic, nasty anti-semites that I’ve ever conversed with (via message boards) are all leftists. Disgusting.


22 posted on 10/24/2007 12:08:04 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Hans
American Jews are largely pacifist...probably because of what they suffered in the holocaust. And who is the "antiwar party"? You guessed it.

Paradox is...pacifists and anti-war types actually end up causing wars.

23 posted on 10/24/2007 12:08:47 PM PDT by what's up
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To: SJackson

I understand. Jews like Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Murtha, Kerry, etc., are always stirring-up trouble.


24 posted on 10/24/2007 12:16:13 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: Azeem
But US Jews do vote more Democrat.

95% of my fellow US Jews are stupid enough to vote Democratic, robot-like, feeling so good about their superior intellects. Feh.

25 posted on 10/24/2007 12:18:16 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: SJackson

Oh no! Not the JOOOOOOOOOOO....


26 posted on 10/24/2007 12:18:32 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (Free commerce is the only just way to redistribute wealth.)
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To: SlowBoat407

....OOOOOOOOOS!


27 posted on 10/24/2007 12:18:58 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (Free commerce is the only just way to redistribute wealth.)
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To: SJackson
Perhaps Rice will take the time to explain to the Turks that do to an unfortunate mistake by our party of disaster we have a total idiot as Speaker of the House.
28 posted on 10/24/2007 12:25:10 PM PDT by ANGGAPO (LayteGulfBeachClub)
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To: All
"They shouldn't allow some people to manipulate this initiative in Congress to the detriment of this relationship, which is beneficial for both sides."

. . . "There is the same commitment on the part of the organized community to support Turkey."

Long before I read Prof. Huntington's "Who Are We?" I became disgusted and outraged at the various diasporas, their advocacy groups, and their Congressional caucuses. Prof. Huntington discussed how this has too often screwed up our foreign affairs. (I will add that it has also screwed Americans as often the diasporas lobby for their countries' advantages over America. China, India, and Mexico are the worst offenders IMO.)

Country A's citizens living here lobby and advocate publicly for penalties against country B. B fights back the same way using its citizens living here.

Enough already! Go home and fight!

29 posted on 10/24/2007 12:27:34 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Azeem

Honestly i think this is just a small piece of coordinated foreign infiltration of our political system. If the blatant chinese money in the 1996 election wasn’t enough of a warning flag, the Hsu affair should convince even some more naive observers that our government is spectacularly corrupted not only by business, but by foreign interests as well.


30 posted on 10/24/2007 12:35:10 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: what's up

“American Jews are largely pacifist...probably because of what they suffered in the holocaust.”

As I understand it, the vast majority of american jews are from families that immigrated well before the persecutions in Germany in the 1930’s started, much less the full-blown genocide and organized persecutions throughout german-controlled europe in WWII.


31 posted on 10/24/2007 12:39:54 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: SJackson

Nancy Pelosi is Jewish?

And here I’ve always thought she was just a very nice dressed beeyatch.....


32 posted on 10/24/2007 12:40:41 PM PDT by Badeye ('Ron Paul joined 88 Democrats.....")
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To: SolidWood

We do better — we just blame the Democrats.


33 posted on 10/24/2007 12:47:05 PM PDT by Goodness
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To: SJackson
Oh, brother.
34 posted on 10/24/2007 12:52:56 PM PDT by Salem (What can men do against such reckless hate? ... Ride out with me. Ride out and meet them!)
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To: Azeem
But US Jews do vote more Democrat.

Yup, but ironically, this is something the Turks and the nutroots who support the Democraps can agree about, namely it's all the Jooooos fault. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, just wade over into the nutroots and you'll see how much anti-Semetism and anti-Israel rhetoric is rampant over there.)

35 posted on 10/24/2007 12:55:30 PM PDT by piytar
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To: piytar

And yes, I’m conflating the Democraps and the nutroots: The one is wholly dependent upon the other for its current existence.

PS To any Democrap voting Jews out there, I REALLY recommend wading over into the nutroots — bring your barf bags — to see exactly what your fellow Democrap supporters believe.


36 posted on 10/24/2007 12:59:06 PM PDT by piytar
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To: Kevmo
Pelosi is so anti-war that she started a war.

Pretty much, yup. But don't think for an instance that it was an accident. She needed SOMETHING bad to happen to Iraq because the news has been too good from there post-surge (which is bad, neh AWFUL, for the Democraps), and this was an easy one for her to pull off...

37 posted on 10/24/2007 1:00:44 PM PDT by piytar
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To: Salem; SJackson

Oh brother ditto


38 posted on 10/24/2007 1:07:20 PM PDT by HockeyPop
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To: SolidWood

Muzzies can’t “argument” without blaming the JOOOOOS.

who is ghost writing for the turkish muzzies....herr pat buchanan???


39 posted on 10/24/2007 1:23:29 PM PDT by nyyankeefan
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To: SJackson

Wasn’t the Armenian Genocide a pogrom against the jews?


40 posted on 10/24/2007 1:28:58 PM PDT by ichabod1 ("Self defense is not only our right, it is our duty." President Ronald Reagan)
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To: SJackson
"The Turkish government has spent millions of dollars on lobbying against the resolution since it was introduced in late January by Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D), whose Southern California district contains one of the nation's largest ethnic Armenian populations."

Turkish Jews Decry Armenian Genocide Bill

41 posted on 10/24/2007 1:44:11 PM PDT by kabar
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To: SJackson

Turkey’s army won’t invade

“With the threat that the U.S. House of Representatives will approve a resolution that accuses Turks of genocide against ethic Armenians nine decades ago, this is a particularly inopportune moment for the two countries to be at odds over Iraq.”

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20071024a1.html


42 posted on 10/24/2007 1:47:08 PM PDT by Milligan
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To: WoofDog123
Nonetheless, it would have been impossible even for these Jews to have been unaffected by the Holocaust as most would have friends and/or family who would still have been in Europe.

In addition, the Jews had no military for centuries. Thus, they had to resort to pacifistic means to get ahead. Another factor that results in much of their anti-war mentality today.

43 posted on 10/24/2007 1:59:09 PM PDT by what's up
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To: what's up

“Nonetheless, it would have been impossible even for these Jews to have been unaffected by the Holocaust as most would have friends and/or family who would still have been in Europe.”

A more revealing sample of Jews impacted by the holocaust might be the european jewish immigrants to palestine/israel post-WWII.


44 posted on 10/24/2007 2:07:45 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: WoofDog123
I believe there were 2 types. Those who became more entrenched in pacifism, and those who were intent on forming their own country, which of necessity included forming a military.

The US got the pacifistic Jews.

45 posted on 10/24/2007 2:10:36 PM PDT by what's up
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To: SJackson

I thought Turkey and Israel had water sharing treaties.

Besides the real issue is the current historic revision not the actuall deed. (kind of like what Iran does with Holocost denial)


46 posted on 10/24/2007 2:13:00 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
I love Tom Lehrer also!

But this is kinda spooky:

"We have told them that we cannot explain it to the public in Turkey if a road accident happens. We have told them that we cannot keep the Jewish people out of this."

That sounds eerily similar to an old quote:

"If international finance Jewry in and outside Europe should succeed in once again plunging the nations into a world war, then the result will not be the victory of Jewry, but rather the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!"

--Adolf Hitler, Reichstag speech, January 30, 1939

It was Hitler, and Hitler alone, that wanted WWII, but the war would also provide the perfect cover for getting rid of his bete noirs, the Jews. And it's possible the Turks will turn on Turkish Jews they way they did on the Turkish Christian Armenians 90 years ago.

'Rational' people couldn't take Hitler's threats seriously, and it's hard to think now that the Turks would start murdering Jewish Turks. But if I had any Jewish family in Turkey, I'd be yelling and hollering at them to get out!

47 posted on 10/24/2007 4:01:49 PM PDT by xJones
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To: xJones

Good analysis. I forget which year Erdogan got in, but the party line was “don’t worry - even though the islamic party is now in control not much will change - Turkey will remain moderate and secular”. I didn’t believe it then and I don’t believe it now. Whenever the ROP takes over a country, there is *always* bad news to follow. This never fails.


48 posted on 10/24/2007 4:50:17 PM PDT by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: SJackson

You’ve got to check out this post, priceless:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1916037/posts


49 posted on 10/24/2007 10:16:37 PM PDT by americanophile
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To: SJackson

The lousy Turks show their true colours - again.


50 posted on 10/25/2007 4:12:48 AM PDT by M. Espinola (Freedom is never free)
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