Posted on 10/25/2007 4:46:52 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued
I read this sort of thing and I just do a slow burn.
In the end, though, I couldn't sacrifice my son to an education system that seems at best inefficient and at worst willfully corrupt. As much as I admire Mayor Fenty, I can't help noting that his children go to a private school. And if he doesn't send his kids to D.C. schools, why should I?
The more interesting question is why should all of the parents who don't have the choice to send their kids to a private school, or move to the suburbs? How do you write an article this long without noting that there are a whole lot of parents in the DC school district, each with their own child just as precious and unique and worth saving as David Nicholson's kid, who don't have any choices? How does the word "voucher" not appear once?
I very rarely get angry about politics. But every time I see some middle class parent prattling about vouchers "destroying" the public schools by "cherry picking" the best students, when they've made damn sure that their own precious little cherries have been plucked out of the failing school systems, I seethe with barely controllable inward rage. It is the vilest hypocrisy on display in American politics today. Now, I don't accuse David Nicholson of this particular sin . . . yet. Right now he's only guilty of the lesser sin of viewing real estate purchases as the natural vehicle through which one should excercise educational choice. Perhaps he favors vouchers to help the kids he's left behind. But if he does, I sure wish he'd mentioned it.
(Excerpt) Read more at meganmcardle.theatlantic.com ...
Not only are these problems proof of the validity of vouchers, they’re also yet another reason to homeschool.
Liberals would never stoop to a double standard, and would never tell a lie.
Naw, there are lots of them. But this is a pretty good one.
It amazes me that the blacks of DC vote overwhelmingly for DemocRATS when they are their oppressors.
And the faculty exists for the benefit of the government.
If individuals receive federal funds (vouchers) to place their children in private schools, what happens to the administration of those schools that accept the children with those federal funds?
Would it be possible that the NEA could force their agenda through an otherwise exempt education community this way? This is something anyone who pushes for vouchers ought to think about. 
The school think the students belong to them, it’s a socialist ideal, but that’s all you get in govt schools.
Vouchers is the wrong word - I prefer property tax rebates or deducations.
But you know, it’s muddying the waters to say that vouchers would necessitate government control. The degree to which they exercise control over the funds they disperse varies greatly from stipend to stipend. It’s a two-pronged battle: free the tax dollars AND cut the gordian knot of micro-management.
Can a person receiving disability not buy food from a Jewish deli? Or purchase stuff from a religious bookstore?
[...”destroying” the public schools by “cherry picking” the best students...]
This statement doesn’t mean what most people think it means.
The term “best students” in this case has been expanded to include any child that is capable of learning, willing to learn, and willing to accept discipline. It doesn’t mean “the smartest kids”.
What public schools are afraid of is that they’ll be left to wallow in the mass of undisciplined students that any private school would either expel or insist on corporal punishment to keep in line.
They won’t use that group as the reason, though. Instead, they’ll claim the “special-ed” kids that have actual handicaps will bankrupt the public school system if it loses all the “good-kid” money to vouchers.
Why should we be upset that our kids are nothing but placeholders to ensure enough funding for the problem children ?
SPOT ON.
Hello, California? SB777? Caving to the gaystapo? Banning “mom” and “dad” from public schools?
And, NOTE that the law INCLUDES any PRIVATE school that either A) receives state money, OR B) enrolls students receiving State money (e.g. vouchers).
If we passed a voucher system into Law in CA, no private school wanting to shelter it’s curricular offerings from State meddling would accept students trying to use them.
The result would be a no-gain for the prospective students, and a no-loss for the private schools. The students not now going to private schools because of money issues, STILL wouldn’t be. The students currently able to get together the money to go to private schools STILL would be.
The only differnce would be in those private schools that agreed to BOTH accept voucher-funded students, AND conform their curriculae to the debauched State requirements. Which begs the question, “Why would anyone spent that kind of money getting their kid out of the public school, only to put them into a private school that teaches the same garbage??” Insanity, would be my first guess.
THIS is why vouchers are a non-starter. Most people who’ve seriously considered the idea, have thought it all the way through to the Land of Consequences and realized they’re a trap.
Well, I have no damned idea what that is.........but I'm all in favor of it.
D'oh - I meant deductions, but I like my typo better. It sounds like it could mean something.
Trust me to treat myself to one martini with dinner...
All school expenses should be deductible from federal, state and local taxes.
Personally I use education augmentation approach. Can’t afford to live in a MacMansion and pay the high prop taxes, and at the same time save for my son’s college and my own retirement simultaneously. So I live below my means by using my income as a basis and save everything my wife makes. I would analyze my son’s education and augment its shortcomings with tutor, summer tutoring and reinforcement classes. I get to strengthen his public education with summer classes and tutor services in key areas. Seems to work. Not everyone can homeschool, not everyone can pay the high property taxes and then pay for private school tuition. By the time vouchers are acceptable politically, my son would be out of college. I like to see conservatives create a tutoring service that help strengthen public education students. Parents can tailor the modules (employ the ones needed or they can afford). These tutor services not only strengthen the student’s academic skills but also raise the issue why these subject matters, effective techniques are not employed by the public schools to whom the parent’s are paying property taxes for??? Finally, parents really control and influence their kids. Kids spend about 1 percent of their time in church (assuming they attend church) 13 percent in school and under 87 percent of their time at home. Talk to any Asian parent who has high performing and discipline children. They are taught the same PC values which conflict with their familly centered Confucian values, yet most of their kids do not end up screwed up. The secret is parents exercising their authority over their kids. Good book to read is by a Korean American call “Being Number One” which explains why Asian students are high achievers. It is not because they have superior genes, they have a strong parental system. Ever spoken to a Korean who lived during the time that Japan annexed and made Korea part of their Empire from 1911 to 1945. Japan instituted mandatory education and Koreans were taught only Japanese language, history and etc, and enything Korean was forbidden under severe punishment. Japan could not stamp out the Korean culture, neither did the Soviets when they subjugated the Czechs, Poles, Hungarians, Germans and etc. Parents’ simply deprogrammed their children when they got home. If these people can do that under a true police state, our leftwing PC idiots are a piece a cake. I tell my son just nodd your head in agreement in order not to jeopardize his grade, but within his heart he knows otherwise. Let the liberals think they control the kids, when in reality their control is hollow. In a democracy, at the right time we simply sweep them away at the ballot box.
I does not have to be that way. The GI Bill used Federal dollars to send soldiers to public or private universities without attempting to control the schools. It can be done. Will it?
Do NOT attack vouchers simply because your own Cali lege is passing bad laws in an environment without school choice. this is kind of like saying that tax reform is a bad idea because of the stupid ‘tax reform’ tax hike that Charlie Rangel proposes.
The fact is that school choice is a fundamental necessity for real school reform.
It’s a further fact that school choice means going in the opposite direction of more socialist government meddling. It means giving students and parents more say and makes the system more effective and accountable.
The Cali lege is run by anti-voucher anti-homsechooling anti-private school liberal Democrats anyway. Maybe there you’ll have to take some baby steps: Start by making sure that they *DONT* over-regulate private schools and/or hamper them in any way, repeal state mandates that ruin local control and/or push the PC agenda, give the right of students in failing schools the ability to choose another. *THEN* propose charter schools that operate in school districts and serve a role of public-chartered schools that have less regulation. This gives some of the benefits of vouchers (not all) but is less controversial.
Here in Texas, we have gotten several key reforms under way - charter schools, and ‘virtual schools/classes’ - along with a very friendly approach towards homeschooling. The caharter schools get about 80% of the funding of public state-run schools and perform as well or better.
Vouchers are a natural evolution in bringing choice and accountability and a child-centered education to the fore. They should be done right, meaning they allow private institutions to take in students and get compensated for the public service they provide in educating the child. Those private insitutions shouldnt be hampered by red tape that is irrelevent to the central mission in educating children.
- Texas Policy Foundation:
http://www.texaspolicy.com/commentaries_single.php?report_id=1271
- CONFíA National Hispanic Organization supporting school choice: http://www.confianow.com/news.php?id=19&PHPSESSID=f4af505231fd6231b3444f8674bae298
- CREO Hispanic Council for Reform and Educational Options;
http://www.hcreo.org/content/article/detail/838/
- Milton and Rose Friedman Foundation
http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/friedman/research/ShowResearch.do
MORE MONEY, STAGNANT PERFORMANCE
- Fordham Foundation studies:
http://www.fordhamfoundation.org/foundation/publication/publication.cfm?id=363&pubsubid=1452#1452
- Government statistics:
http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/search.asp?searchcat=subjectindex&L1=116&L2=0
20% OF TEACHERS SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS
- Washington Times article:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040922-122847-5968r.htm
“That argument is patently absurd. At the heart of this problem is the notion that the students exist for the benefit of the schools and the schools exist for the benefit of the faculty.”
Excellent comment!
To be pro-school choice is to be pro-school-children.
It is about centering the education on *what is best for the child* and giving parents that power and control that need and deserve to help make that happen.
Let’s alos debunk the phony “vouchers means private schools will get regulated and socialized”:
1) Pro-vouchers people want *less* regulation in schools, and btw going from a stalinist model to a market model is about the only effective way to reduce over-regulation in any industry.
2) It is very clear in the cases where vouchers have been used for real, that those fears have not materialized. It’s a bogeyman.
3) It’s a bogeyman the pro-socialist-school opponents of vouchers raise up. In effect, they put a gun to the head of private schools - “have vouchers and we will try to ruin these schools” - it hasnt happened, but why would we be craven to such threats? That’s giving in to exactly those forces who are holding our children hostage to a mediocre school system.
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“I would analyze my son’s education and augment its shortcomings with tutor, summer tutoring and reinforcement classes. ... I like to see conservatives create a tutoring service that help strengthen public education students. Parents can tailor the modules (employ the ones needed or they can afford). These tutor services not only strengthen the student’s academic skills but also raise the issue why these subject matters, effective techniques are not employed by the public schools to whom the parent’s are paying property taxes for???”
Speaking to my heart here. Just had our son do his daily “Saxon math” work tonight. Public school is not enough, you make sure they stay on the Right path. My wife is Korean-American btw.
I seriously cannot fathom why blacks are not pushing for vouchers. Per capita, blacks stand to gain from vouchers more than any other ethnic group.
Can a school receiving federal funds choose who they accept and reject, and what they teach against federal mandates?
I see the problem as one of whose choice it will be, the parents receiving the funds or the government that distributes them. The voucher system will no doubt start off the way you describe. . .
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They aren’t “liberal”. They are Marxists and Fascists! It is time to call them what they are.
ALL Marxists and Fascists lie.
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This isn’t “augmentation”. It is **everything** I did as a homeschooling mom! What you are doing is homeschooling after school. Some call this “Afterschooling”.
ALL academically successful children are homeschooled. The only thing a government school is doing is sending home a free curriculum. It is the **parents** who are doing 100% of the hard work of seeing that their kid follows it and completes it.
So...who takes the credit for all of your afterschooling work? Yes! Of course! The government school! They take credit for all your work and then blame the parents when the other child fail. Wow! Talk about win-win for the government teachers!
87 percent of their time at home.
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Ping for later.
In certain political climates (i.e. Conservative), a voucher system would work just fine, because a good Legislature would leave them unrestricted, and would not impose requirements upon any institution accepting them; leaving all choices up to the institutions, regarding what to teach, and the parents, regarding where to send their children; what kind of education they want to give them.
The reality is that in several States, that kind of political climate simply does not exist, nor is there any substantivwe reason to hope that it ever shall. Cosnequently, as I describe, there is no way that any voucher system , once instituted, would have a prayer of remaining unregulated. Even were a voucher system instituted that was completely unrestricted, there would soon be another bill passed through the Legislature to impose requirements upone institutions enrolling students using those vouchers.
In this matter, as in all others we discuss in this forum, every government entity that does not have, at its very core, individuals motivated by robust, Conservative princples, is simply NOT to be trusted. Sadly, in such cases, “the best” is just too much to hope for.
I’m very pleased to learn that conditions in Texas are so conducive to the adoption of a strong voucher system; that simply is NOT the situation here.
In fact, charter schools in California have come under the same unbrella of regulation as the public schools, rendering them all but useless for parents seeking more freedom in the education of their children.
Our only shining star, right now, is that — shockingly — California has nearly the most unregulated legal structure for home education of any State in the Union. Beyond that, conditions are rather bleak.
Go to HSLDA’s website and find their U.S. map indicating the levels of regulation on home education State-by-State. California is among the very few green States on that map. IIRC, only Idaho is more free.
“The reality is that in several States, that kind of political climate simply does not exist, nor is there any substantivwe reason to hope that it ever shall. Cosnequently, as I describe, there is no way that any voucher system , once instituted, would have a prayer of remaining unregulated.”
The same forces that oppose school choice oppose local choice; they also oppose parental control of children and oppose traditional moral values.
All I would suggest to you is to consider that, instead of having a defeating “it will never work right” attitude, support a voucher proposal that WILL work right and caveat your support in those terms. Only those inveted in failure want an unworkable system ...
” Even were a voucher system instituted that was completely unrestricted, there would soon be another bill passed through the Legislature to impose requirements upone institutions enrolling students using those vouchers.”
I said in another post that this is a bogeyman. It really hasn’t worked out that way.
“In this matter, as in all others we discuss in this forum, every government entity that does not have, at its very core, individuals motivated by robust, Conservative princples, is simply NOT to be trusted. Sadly, in such cases, “the best” is just too much to hope for.”
I suggest that those kinds of comments are defeatism. What you SHOULD stand for, I would suggest, is the basic principle of “MORE PARENTAL CHOICE” and “LESS CENTRAL CONTROL” in education.
“I’m very pleased to learn that conditions in Texas are so conducive to the adoption of a strong voucher system; that simply is NOT the situation here.”
Don’t get me wrong. We have had a number of other reforms, but we still dont have a majority for a real voucher system.
It turns out that vouchers are a lot harder politically to sell than these other reforms. Why?
Part of it is that vouchers are the 100% surefire destroy-the-educrat-monopoly and the forces of socialist education mobilize against it, and will stir up anything and say any lie to stop school choice.
Part of the problem alas is the kind of defeatism and cant-do-it attitude that you express, along with various selfish “Ive-got-mine” views from people who think - WRONGLY - that school choice and homeschooling are polarized options or buy the myth that their high-cost public school would get undermined by market competition, or think - WRONGLY - that vouchers and private school support are not the same thing.
All of us parents and believers in decent education and educational freedom need to UNITE around certain principles and advocate that these principles. You might look at these ‘principles of school choice’ and consider which ones we could unit around and support as a united front for school reform:
source: http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=16856
10 Principles of School Choice
1. Allow parents to choose, page 4
2. Funding should follow the child, page 6
3. Schools should compete, page 8
4. Empower school leaders, page 10
5. Empower teachers, page 12
6. Give parents adequate funding with incentives, page
7. Allow schools to succeed or fail, page 16
8. Preserve the autonomy of private schools, page 18
9. Teach democratic values, page 20
10. All parents should be free to choose, page 22
References, page 24
“I see the problem as one of whose choice it will be, the parents receiving the funds or the government that distributes them. “
Any person who calls themselves ‘conservative’ or ‘parent’ knows the right answer to that question: The parent knows best. The Government knows SNAFU, incompetence, corruption, waste, and how to create rules that destroy opportunities for children ... but the parent knows what is best for their child.
“I seriously cannot fathom why blacks are not pushing for vouchers. Per capita, blacks stand to gain from vouchers more than any other ethnic group.”
In polls, school choice gets majority support in the minority community.
This could be an issue that Republicans use to win back in urban areas. It’s lack of imagination that stop Republicans from doing that.
Yes - there, that was easy.
As I said, the issue of how many strings are attached to education funding is itself negotiable. Federal meddling can be addressed on its own terms and can be pared down if there is a will. Micromanagement need not be a given, as people imply, unless they are prone to surrender before the first shot is fired.
The D of E is a monster that would exert far less control over education if the circuit of tax dollars changed from "my pocket to FedGov to my school district to my student" to "my pocket to my school for my student." Hence my argument not to take the money in the first place (a tax deduction for tuition).
But I must reiterate, don't roll over and say "eh, what can we do?" Such hopelessness is one of the NEA's biggest and laziest footsoldiers.
PS - which candiate has come out for eliminating the D of E?
Count on it. The history of this is long and SC decisions many. They may not initially do it, but they will have the power and the right to do it.
Blacks should support school vouchers 100%. Why would a black parent want to send their child to a Harlem public school with a 41% graduation rate, when St. Mary’s down the street graduates 89% of their black kids every year?
SC is interpretting laws made by Congress and etc. One mustn’t give up hope. Got to play the game ot change the tide (to mix metaphors). Why does Rice Play Texas?
It is how the feds have been imposing federal will on the states for decades, and the principle is not limited to political entities.
And who tells the Feds what to say the rules are?
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