Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Abortion's shades of gray (by Michael Medved)
Townhall.com ^ | October 24, 2007 | Michael Medved

Posted on 10/29/2007 5:12:35 PM PDT by EveningStar

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-154 next last
The entire article is compelling, whether you agree with it or not. You can find Townhall reader comments at the bottom of the article.
1 posted on 10/29/2007 5:12:36 PM PDT by EveningStar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: EveningStar
If you do not know the murder of the most innocent is totally wrong, you have no morals.
2 posted on 10/29/2007 5:22:44 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar

There is no way of getting around it, the populist view on abortion is that it should be legal in the first trimester, restricted in the 2nd trimester, and illegal in the 3rd trimester except to save the Life (not the health) of the mother.


3 posted on 10/29/2007 5:22:52 PM PDT by Sadecki ("Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sadecki
"There is no way of getting around it"

Okay, the polls indicate something like what you say. What is your point? Some other facts that there is no getting around include:

- In 1970 the populist view was that all abortion should be illegal.

- Popularity doesn't = good in itself

- A Rudy Presidential nomination = a democrat president

4 posted on 10/29/2007 5:29:15 PM PDT by davidwendell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar; TitansAFC; indylindy; Liz; TommyDale; Extremely Extreme Extremist; Jim Robinson
In other words, it's a major distortion to label Giuliani as "pro-abortion"...

Medved seems to be competing with Deroy Murdock for the biggest spinning Giuliani shill award.

5 posted on 10/29/2007 5:33:12 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: davidwendell
A Rudy Presidential nomination = a democrat president

Medved does a compelling job of disputing that point.

6 posted on 10/29/2007 5:33:42 PM PDT by EveningStar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: calcowgirl

I was puzzled at first, but then I started reading the article. Medved has come up with some interesting arguments.


7 posted on 10/29/2007 5:36:00 PM PDT by EveningStar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar

I hate to tell the author, but the color of abortion is “blood red.”


8 posted on 10/29/2007 5:38:12 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: calcowgirl

All they can do is distort and spin The Rudy record.

Once the other candidates start holding Rooty’s feet to the fire on these issues, the Rooty spin will start going down the drain.

It will take the conservative candidates to take ole Rooty to the woodshed to get truthful results.


9 posted on 10/29/2007 5:38:24 PM PDT by dforest (Duncan Hunter is the best hope we have on both fronts.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar
Pray for an end to abortion and the conversion of America to a mindset of life!

10 posted on 10/29/2007 5:39:09 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar
I was puzzled at first, but then I started reading the article. Medved has come up with some interesting arguments.

Interesting? I didn't think so. He seems to just reiterate the same ridiculous tired arguments, like this one (which is totally unbelievable as it conflicts with many other Giuliani statements, as well as his record):

Most significant of all, Giuliani has specifically cited strict-constructionists Antonin Scalia, Samuel Alito and John Roberts as his models for future justices of the Supreme Court — and all three of those jurists have signaled their support for allowing states more leeway in limiting abortions.

11 posted on 10/29/2007 5:39:36 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Are you familiar with the author?


12 posted on 10/29/2007 5:40:53 PM PDT by EveningStar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: calcowgirl

Rudy Giuliani is Pro-Abortion!


13 posted on 10/29/2007 5:42:16 PM PDT by TommyDale (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: indylindy
Once the other candidates start holding Rooty’s feet to the fire on these issues, the Rooty spin will start going down the drain.

I think they are already going down the drain... most all redeeming qualities have turned out to be myths or lies. The shills just seem to have louder voices and shamelessly repeat debunked assertions as if it was fact.

14 posted on 10/29/2007 5:42:24 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Sadecki

If a majority of people insisted 2 + 2 = 6, you would compromise with them and agree on 5 ?

I’ve never understood where the virtue is in ‘compromise’ when the answer is clear cut.

This is a tactic of brainwashing — make somebody doubt what they know to be true. Then they will accept any absurdity just because a large number of others tell them to.

I equate a pregnant woman with a woman putting a child on her back to cross a raging river. It doesn’t matter whether she is one-third of the way across, two-thirds, or standing on the banks, if she discards the child she is a murderer. Once pregnant, she is OBLIGATED to do everything she can to deliver that child safely.


15 posted on 10/29/2007 5:43:38 PM PDT by Kellis91789 (Liberals aren't atheists. They worship government -- including human sacrifices.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: calcowgirl

Well, he is only shilling for Rudy and Huck because he coddles illegal aliens like they do.


16 posted on 10/29/2007 5:44:40 PM PDT by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar

Giuliani is no longer a viable candidate. It will be Romney/Thompson or Thompson/Romney. Which will be better to defeat Clinton/Obama, Clinton/Richardson or Clinton/Edwards?


17 posted on 10/29/2007 5:46:44 PM PDT by montag813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar
I was puzzled at first, but then I started reading the article. Medved has come up with some interesting arguments.

This one (below) is by far the toughest to answer. It is a very good point that begs an answer.

If abortion really is murder, why not support the death penalty (or at least life in prison) for both mother and abortionist? At least 25% of all women have received abortions, but I've never heard sane advocates for human life suggesting we should execute or imprison these millions of females.

18 posted on 10/29/2007 5:47:13 PM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: calcowgirl

Hey, IT is going to take THE other CANDIDATES to step up and do the job. If they don’t start fighting the good fight, Rooty will win.

He will, only because they are trying to play along with him rather than against him.

The fight against Hillary is coming, but lets choose our candidate first.

They are going to have to demand the attention and make it known why THEY are better for the job than Rooty. It shouldn’t be hard, if they are willing to break the ground. I know nice guys want to avoid this kind of thing...um...Rooty knows that.


19 posted on 10/29/2007 5:49:39 PM PDT by dforest (Duncan Hunter is the best hope we have on both fronts.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

EveningStar didn’t write the article.


20 posted on 10/29/2007 5:52:45 PM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: teenyelliott
When you reply to the person that starts a thread, replies are to the writer not the poster.
24 posted on 10/29/2007 5:58:14 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: LowCountryJoe
If a woman has an abortion now, it is legal. She would not be considered a murderer under current law.

I do not know, however, if women receiving illegal abortions prior to Roe v. Wade would have been charged with a crime.

Interesting point.

Of course, if abortion were illegal, far fewer women would seek them simply because they don't want to do anything criminal.

25 posted on 10/29/2007 5:59:27 PM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: boleslaus sabakovic
Did God say there should not be slavery in the south?

I must have missed that.

26 posted on 10/29/2007 6:01:03 PM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar

Didn’t even look at the article. Just posted my opinions and moved on.


27 posted on 10/29/2007 6:01:45 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: davidwendell
In 1970 the populist view was that all abortion should be illegal.

So what? it is not 1970 anymore. As tragic as it is, the reality is that almost every American alive now either has made the decision to have an abortion or knows someone who has -- if the majority are like me, the women I know who have had an abortion did so only after much soul searching and concluding that they were not in a position to have a baby at that time. All of them that I am still in contact with now have children. Including my own mother, who had a backroom, illegal 1st trimester abortion in the 1950's after she was raped.

My mother's been a Republican for over 60 years, and I've been a republican for over 25 years -- but here on FR, both of us are called "Lefties" because we support keeping abortion legal in the first trimester. So be it. Thankfully most of the voters in this nation have to deal with "life on Life terms" and all the curveballs that entails -- few of us have the luxury of living in the simple Black and white theoretical world of the conservatives here on freerepublic.

And I think that's the main point Medved was making. That it is not a black and white issue anymore if it wver was -- and to just deny that reality -- does the republican party a real disservice because there are still huge distinctions between what most republicans beleive about abortiopn and what most democrats believe.

Popularity doesn't = good in itself

I never said it did.

A Rudy Presidential nomination = a democrat president

As medved has pointed out, and many other right wing pundits as well, to say such a thing is a naive and ridiculous statement
28 posted on 10/29/2007 6:02:44 PM PDT by Sadecki ("Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: montag813

Romney will not be the nominee either.


29 posted on 10/29/2007 6:02:45 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran

Evening Star and I have broken Bread many of times He is a fine and honorable man


30 posted on 10/29/2007 6:02:50 PM PDT by al baby (Hi mom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: boleslaus sabakovic
Execute? That’s stupid and not prolife.

So you are against the death penalty?

Welcome to FreeRepublic.

31 posted on 10/29/2007 6:03:18 PM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: LowCountryJoe
If abortion really is murder, why not support the death penalty (or at least life in prison) for both mother and abortionist? At least 25% of all women have received abortions, but I've never heard sane advocates for human life suggesting we should execute or imprison these millions of females.

This article was posted as another thread a few days ago and I brought up this question...crickets. Everyone wants to use the talking point about murder of innocents and genocide, but when you ask them the above question, they either backtrack or don't respond.

If the belief is that abortion is murder equal to or worse than a traditional murder, it is clearly premeditated by the mother, and the doctor is an accomplice. There should then be NO hesitation in calling for just punishment of the murderer: the death penalty for the mother. The fact there is so much hesitation shows the rhetoric to be mostly for emotional effect and inconsistent at its core.

32 posted on 10/29/2007 6:05:09 PM PDT by Swordfished
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: calcowgirl

This did it for me.

33 posted on 10/29/2007 6:08:23 PM PDT by jwalburg (Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. What does that say about schools?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar

It’s compelling, all right . . . to Rudyshills like Hannity and Medved and to Rudybots like you. Any decent person would reject it at once.


34 posted on 10/29/2007 6:09:15 PM PDT by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: al baby

see 24


35 posted on 10/29/2007 6:10:40 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: madprof98

I’m pro-life. I haven’t made up my mind about the candidates yet but I will support the GOP candidate, no matter who he is. I think Medved likes Romney, BTW.


36 posted on 10/29/2007 6:12:23 PM PDT by EveningStar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: jwalburg

so Rudy dressing up in drag as part of a comedy routine makes him unfit to be president?

It’s comments like yours which is the reason why so-called Conservatives are being increasingly marginalized in the GOP.

It begs the question, “If conservatives can’t even make a distinction between someone dressing in drag as a joke and real transvestite, then why should they be leading our party?”


37 posted on 10/29/2007 6:17:43 PM PDT by Sadecki ("Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Sadecki

The alleged popularity of legal abortion will fade as science increasingly makes it impossible to maintain that abortion isn’t the taking of a human life. That, combined with the eventual passing of the self-indulgent baby boomers, will bring the abortion cult to an end.

In Europe, it will be Islam that brings it to an end, after the Europeans abort themselves into extinction.


38 posted on 10/29/2007 6:17:49 PM PDT by puroresu (Enjoy ASIAN CINEMA? See my Freeper page for recommendations (updated!).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Sadecki

Gravitas


39 posted on 10/29/2007 6:21:39 PM PDT by jwalburg (Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. What does that say about schools?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: LowCountryJoe
At least 25% of all women have received abortions, but I've never heard sane advocates for human life suggesting we should execute or imprison these millions of females.

Stupid argument. The women had these legal (though immoral) procedures performed with the blessing of the legal system. To advocate someone's punishment (on earth) for doing something legal is a dumb argument and a shell game.

If abortion was ruled a state issue and some states subsequently made the procedure illegal and then some women subsequently had illegal abortions, they should be tried for their crime based upon the law of the state. It's not rocket science.

40 posted on 10/29/2007 6:29:50 PM PDT by the808bass
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Swordfished
The fact there is so much hesitation shows the rhetoric to be mostly for emotional effect and inconsistent at its core.

The fact that you think your argument is so logically brilliant does not make it so. A legal procedure (no matter how immoral) is not subject to legal prosecution. But of course you know that. So your argument simply becomes rhetoric for emotional effect and inconsistent at its core. Where have I heard that before?

41 posted on 10/29/2007 6:33:47 PM PDT by the808bass
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: puroresu
The alleged popularity of legal abortion will fade as science increasingly makes it impossible to maintain that abortion isn’t the taking of a human life.

I think that even people who support limited abortion rights believe that it is a taking of a human life. Which is why it is such a horrible and tragic decision to have to make. It is a decison that weighed heavy on the hearts of every woman I now who has had one.

Democrats on the other hand seem incapable of acknowledging that abortion is the taking of a human life -- right up to birth -- Hillary has even voted against bills that would add a criminal charge of assault or murder (if the baby dies) to the assailant of a woman who is pregnant.

I think you are right to the extent that the "abortion on demand, up to birth" crowd will be increasingly out of favor with the populus as video/photographic medical technology increasingly allows the humanity of the fetus to be shown so clearly.

I also think that as the technology increases, the age of viabilty will decrease and laws restricting abortion will get tighter and tighter.
42 posted on 10/29/2007 6:35:27 PM PDT by Sadecki ("Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Sadecki; jwalburg

Sadecki, “so-called” is an apt description. Good post.


43 posted on 10/29/2007 6:38:35 PM PDT by EveningStar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: jwalburg
Gravitas

Nobody's ever accused Rudy of lacking gravitas -- especially in NYC. He was a very commanding presence the entire time he was a mayor.

But FYI: rudy appeared in drag 3x in his 8 years as mayor. Once on saturday night live. And twice at the annual "mayors inner circle" press roasts which is the one event during the year where the mayor is supposed to make fun of himself.

Sometimes he used the press roast as a chance to get a plug in for broadway in some way-- once he was dressed as an animal from the "Lion King" and another time, as you know from the photo you posted, he was a character from the show Victor/Victoria on stage with Julie Andrews and the rest of the cast.


44 posted on 10/29/2007 6:49:25 PM PDT by Sadecki ("Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Sadecki
Which is why it is such a horrible and tragic decision to have to make. It is a decison that weighed heavy on the hearts of every woman I now who has had one.

It is also the perfect example of the cognitive dissonance of post-postmodern society. From what I could find, ~70% of people believed abortion was the taking of a human life. And yet 89% of abortions are performed as contraception. Reasons from "not ready to have a baby" to "concerned about how a baby will change her life" to "can't afford a baby" are pretty much contraception.

So, though ~70% of people agree that abortion takes a human life, the vast majority of abortions are performed for reasons that do not seem to justify the taking of a human life.

45 posted on 10/29/2007 6:53:33 PM PDT by the808bass
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Sadecki
Conservatives are not allowed to have a sense of humor, don't you know that??????????

Stick around, and you will learn that soon enough.

46 posted on 10/29/2007 7:08:15 PM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: EveningStar
Personally, I disagree with Giuliani on abortion. I am unhesitatingly pro-life,

I like Michael Medved, but when you cut away all the BS, he's promoting a pervert here and he doesn't explain why.

If Rudy and Hillary both get nominated, we will elect our first female president . . . no matter which candidate wins.

47 posted on 10/29/2007 7:16:49 PM PDT by tear gas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: the808bass
It is also the perfect example of the cognitive dissonance of post-postmodern society.

it's more complicated then that. It's also about terms like "viability" and "quality of life" and "separation of church and state" as well as the dreaded "right to privacy" argument made in Roe v wade.

My views are very simple. I am a Christian and personally pro-life. My religion informs me that life begins at conception. And I would try my best to talk a woman out of getting an abortion. If they did get one. That is between their God and them . If I failed to talk a woman out of an abortion, that is between me and my God.

I am also an American, and I belive that we are a nation of secular laws. And I believe that there is a disconnect between my religious views on abortion, and what the Constitution and declaration of Independence inform me defines a "life" under those secular laws.

And for me, under those secular laws a life does not begin at conception -- but at viabilty -- because it is at that point the fetus becomes a whole and separate being distinct from the mother and therefore a unique individual deserving of all the protections and rights afforded to every other person living in this great nation.

As a result, I can support a secular policy towards abortion that includes, parental and spousal notification, contraception and first trimester abortions with heavy restrictions after that up to viabilty and after that only to save the life of the mother.

As the technology increases and the point of reasonable viabilty becomes shorter and shorter, then the window for a woman to have a legal abortion will also become shorter and shorter -- theoretically at least -- one day - viabilty and conception could be one and the same.

In this way, I maintain my personal religious views that life begins at conception, while still acknowledging that there are other americans who don't embrace this religious view as I do. But at the same time however, I also realize that Christian, Jew, Budhist, or atheist -- there is a point in the pregnancy in which they have no choice but to agree because the law compels them to -- and that point is viability.
48 posted on 10/29/2007 7:18:07 PM PDT by Sadecki ("Do not mistake for conspiracy and intrigue what can best be explained by stupidity and incompetence)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-154 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson