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Self-defense is, inexplicably, no defense
Chicago Tribune ^ | Oct. 28,2007 | John Kass

Posted on 10/29/2007 9:38:52 PM PDT by garyhope

On Sunday, Bob Mette and his son, Mike, 30, will go to the game at Soldier Field to watch the Bears play the Lions. On Monday, Bob will drive Mike to Iowa, to prison. Mike Mette, until recently a Chicago police officer, is scheduled to begin serving a 5-year prison sentence.

His crime? According to the judge's ruling, Mike threw one punch at an angry drunk who chased Mike down the street and attacked him verbally, physically, repeatedly.

The drunk is fine now, golfing, having attended college in Dubuque. The last time I checked he was adding to his resume with a DUI. And Mette?

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; copconvicted; feelingfat; feelingold; gunssavelives; hogs; leo; ohdear; ohno; oink; onepunch; piggy; police
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1 posted on 10/29/2007 9:38:53 PM PDT by garyhope
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To: garyhope
He was a fascist, filthy pig and to the Left, he deserved what what he got. That's why there's no justice for the Mike Mettes of the world.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

2 posted on 10/29/2007 9:43:12 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Chicago, IL doesn’t recognize the right to self defense either.

Mette is being treated as he demonstrably was willing to treat others.


3 posted on 10/29/2007 10:17:51 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: garyhope

Before anyone gets excited, a little research please. Gotthard, the official victim had bruises on the side of his neck, his arms, his elbow, his shoulders, and his back. Medical experts testified at the trial that his injuries were consistant with someone who had been stomped and kicked.

The officers at the scene arrested Mette because his one punch story and the evidence being loaded into the ambulance didn’t add up. The testimony of physicians was given and a jury reached a verdict.

None of which this particular columnist felt necessary to mention.


4 posted on 10/29/2007 10:25:26 PM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: Melas

If he was attacked, which seems to be proven and accepted, then what’s the long sentence for?


5 posted on 10/29/2007 11:14:48 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

Just because he was attacked, does not justify the use of excessive force. Self-defense is only a defense if the individual defending himself uses “reasonable” force; kicking and stomping on an individual after that individual is already on the ground is not “reasonable” force.

Mette did not lose because he punched the guy once. He lost because the evidence suggested that he did much more than just punch the guy once. Had the judge believed his story (i.e., had the evidence backed him up), he wouldn’t be off to jail.


6 posted on 10/29/2007 11:34:46 PM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Melas
Gothard suffered a broken cheekbone, multiple fractures to his nose and a broken jaw, according to court records. He had multiple hemorrhages on the brain. He had bruising on both buttocks and the sides of his arms and on his ribs, and he had lacerations to his face and head.
7 posted on 10/30/2007 12:58:57 AM PDT by iowamark (FDT: Some think the way to beat the Democrats in November is to be more like them.)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

So when a guy chases you down the street and attacks you, you’re allowed only one punch??


8 posted on 10/30/2007 1:07:24 AM PDT by damondonion
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To: garyhope

what’s the rest of the story here? I feel like being led down the garden path. something doesn’t add up here - why would a cop on the scene of a fight go AGAINST another cop? there is a loto off stuff we’re not being told by this crusading journalist...


9 posted on 10/30/2007 3:35:53 AM PDT by camle (keep an open mind and someone will fill it full of something for you)
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To: iowamark
"Gothard suffered a broken cheekbone, multiple fractures to his nose and a broken jaw, according to court records. He had multiple hemorrhages on the brain. He had bruising on both buttocks and the sides of his arms and on his ribs, and he had lacerations to his face and head."

He was knocked unconscious. He was airlifted to a hospital where he spent four days.

In Iowa, assault causing serious injury carries a mandatory five-year term. Maybe that's harsh, I don't know. But that's what the citizens of Iowa want.

He's a cop. You'd think he would know the law.

10 posted on 10/30/2007 4:42:34 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: garyhope
Sickening. The persecutor [sic] and judge in this case should be disbarred, at the very least. At most, they should be tried for clear viloations of Mettes' civil rights and sent to the pokey (where I'm sure they'd be very popular).
11 posted on 10/30/2007 4:53:09 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: Melas
Reporters should report. For the facts of the case, go here to download the judge's opinion (4 pages, .pdf, 197KB).
12 posted on 10/30/2007 5:10:27 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: iowamark

Is this a quote? From where, please?


13 posted on 10/30/2007 5:38:23 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: LIConFem

Dig deeper. This was not a one punch incident. Gotthard was severely beaten incurring multiple serious injuries requiring that he be airlifted from one hospital to another. This columnist is lying through his his teeth.


14 posted on 10/30/2007 6:27:42 AM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: garyhope

Now where is that picture of the BS Meter pegging out?


15 posted on 10/30/2007 6:42:05 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: damondonion
So when a guy chases you down the street and attacks you, you’re allowed only one punch??

No, not even that. I believe what we have here is a minority "victim" (the drunk at the party) harrassing, intimidating, and assaulting a white person, and when the white person responds, he is treated as "the oppressor".

16 posted on 10/30/2007 6:47:27 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Melas
Forget the columnist. I read the judge’s ruling. I don’t recall any mention of a severe beating. Just a single punch, provoked by physical assault on Mette, after which Mette’s assailant hit the ground and hit his head. There was no testimony (according to the ruling) contradicting that (although, having said that, I'll go back to the ruling and check my facts).

I also read in the ruling that:

a) IL law requires that someone in Mette's situation is required by law to either flee or stand there and take a beating, and...

b) He (Mette) decided against a jury trial.

Mette's only mistake was waiving his right to a jury. He might have benefited from the jurors' innate sense of justice (id est jury nullification).
17 posted on 10/30/2007 6:50:31 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: LIConFem
Even if you read the judges report, which does not detail the medical evidence, you’ll have to dig deeper for that, you’ll see that Gotthard was airlifted from a level two to a level one trauma center because he had multiple hemorrhages in his brain. If you can’t see the significance there, let me know and I’ll explain it more detail.
18 posted on 10/30/2007 6:55:03 AM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: LIConFem; Melas

Yep, checked my facts. No “severe beating”, just a single punch after being pushed three times (assaulted). Mette’s attacker deserved what he got. The fact that he cracked his melon on the pavement is unfortunate, but no one’s fault but his own.


19 posted on 10/30/2007 6:56:35 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: Melas
Mette's attacker his his head on the pavement. Does it surprise you that someone who is intoxicated (BAC .270) would fail to protect his melon in a fall?

And I'm curious as to where you came up with the "severe beating" claim. One would think that the judge would use such a fact (if indeed it was fact) to back his decision.
20 posted on 10/30/2007 6:59:33 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: MrB

A minority? With a name like Jake Gotthard, in Dubuque (heavily settled by Germans) Iowa? I’ve got $10 bucks that says he’s white with an obvious German ancestory. Nice try at making it racial though.


21 posted on 10/30/2007 7:00:25 AM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: LIConFem
Dubuque physicians testified that his injuries were consistant with being stomped and kicked.

Gothard suffered a broken cheekbone, multiple fractures to his nose and a broken jaw, according to court records. He had multiple hemorrhages on the brain. He had bruising on both buttocks and the sides of his arms and on his ribs, and he had lacerations to his face and head.

The emergency-room physician, who was board certified, testified that these injuries would not have resulted from one blow," Dubuque County Attorney Ralph Potter wrote in a pointed defense of the case's prosecution. "The defendant's expert witness disputed that finding, while acknowledging that some of the bruising was consistent with "defensive" injuries

22 posted on 10/30/2007 7:04:46 AM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: LIConFem
Sickening. The persecutor [sic] and judge in this case should be disbarred, at the very least.

I think he was found guilty by a jury - not the judge.

23 posted on 10/30/2007 7:16:24 AM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: damondonion
"So when a guy chases you down the street and attacks you, you’re allowed only one punch??"

Sure one's entitled to strike back, 2-3-4 times or more if they're so moved.

However if an altercation should happen in IA/IL?
As soon as one's sated, feeling safe it'd behoove them to become the guy running down the street ASAP.

I suspect "defending-fleeing" will be exactly the result of this.

...after word spreads.

24 posted on 10/30/2007 7:18:47 AM PDT by Landru (finally made it to the dark side of the moon.)
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To: Melas
"Dubuque physicians testified that his injuries were consistant with being stomped and kicked."

If that's the case, why didn't Jakes buddies testify to that? Is it possible that the emergency room physician was wrong, and/or that some of the bruises to his tush and arms were either sustained in the fall or acquired earlier in the evening? They guy was drunk and belligerent, after all, and the lack of eyewitness testimony to Jake being "stomped and kicked", or to any other scenario than the one proffered by all attendees tells me that the docs got it wrong.
25 posted on 10/30/2007 7:20:30 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: CharacterCounts

According to the judge’s ruling, Mette waived his right to a jury trial.


26 posted on 10/30/2007 7:21:17 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: Melas

The kid was probably stomped. The judge does a disservice to her ruling by ignoring that possibility. In her attempt to rule based solely on the undisputed facts she has created this opportunity for Mette to mount an internet “they-done-me-wrong” defense.

http://www.datafilehost.com/download.php?file=30fd893b


27 posted on 10/30/2007 7:24:17 AM PDT by RGSpincich
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To: LIConFem

You are correct.


28 posted on 10/30/2007 7:25:31 AM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: Melas; robertpaulsen
"Gotthard was severely beaten incurring multiple serious injuries requiring that he be airlifted from one hospital to another."

BS. One punch was thrown and the drunk assailant received a broken nose, fell(probably knocked out), and banged his head on the pavement. The rest of your story doesn't match the judge's findings. The judge's findings presented by Paulsen in post #12 show that. The cop was convicted, because Iowa requires the victim to attempt to escape. It's clear from the judge's comments, that she would allow no self defense whatsoever. She would require the victim to flee until they ran out of breath and get beaten by vicious drunks.

This is a typical case of a person defending himself against an attacker and being charged with a crime for it. They left the house, and the assailants followed after them to confront them. Both the judge and the prosecutor are liberals intolerant of the concept of self defense.

29 posted on 10/30/2007 7:58:30 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: LIConFem
"Is it possible that the emergency room physician was wrong"

It's very likely he was wrong.

30 posted on 10/30/2007 8:03:10 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets
"It's very likely he was wrong."

Given the lack of eyewitness testimony to the contrary, that's the only conclusion I can come to. One would think that Jake's pal would have testified to a severe beating, had one taken place. Even the judge, in her "Finding of Fact" mentions only a single punch to the body.
31 posted on 10/30/2007 8:06:41 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: LIConFem
"IL law requires that someone in Mette's situation is required by law to either flee or stand there and take a beating,"

That's right, but this is IA, which requires the same thing. MN and WI do also.

"He might have benefited from the jurors' innate sense of justice"

No, this happened in Dubuque, IA. htere would have been libs on the jury and both the prosecutor and judge are libs.

32 posted on 10/30/2007 8:06:44 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: LIConFem
"One would think that Jake's pal would have testified to a severe beating, had one taken place."

That's right, and in addition, Jake's buddy would have been beaten too, if the scenario was really as the prosecutor said. That's the way these things go.

33 posted on 10/30/2007 8:09:33 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: garyhope

When applying for my carry permit in Onondaga County NY, a sign above the permit office window actually said “Self-Defense Is Not A Valid Reason”.

(Indeed, only applications noting the reason for the permit request as “sporting purpose” or “collecting” were approved. Later the signing judge who implemented that limitation was driven out of office on cocaine distribution charges. Do the math.)


34 posted on 10/30/2007 8:09:56 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: spunkets
"...Jake's buddy would have been beaten too..."

And/or would likely have jumped in to help Jake. Couple that with the fact that Jake & friend pursued Mette and his pals and started the fight, and this is self-defense and justifiable, plain and simple (IA law be damn'd). Again, notwithstanding the jury pool demographic, Mette's big mistake was having the judge decide his case.
35 posted on 10/30/2007 8:19:32 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: LIConFem
"If that's the case, why didn't Jakes buddies testify to that?"

I thought he only had one friend with him, and that individual was being confronted by someone else. I don't believe his friend saw anything.

36 posted on 10/30/2007 8:25:18 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: LIConFem
"Couple that with the fact that Jake & friend pursued Mette and his pals and started the fight, and this is self-defense and justifiable, plain and simple (IA law be damn'd)."

That's right. This happens quite often, and those attacked who defend themselves successfully get charged and convicted. The only reason this one hit the news is, because it was a Chicago cop that was railroaded.

"Mette's big mistake was having the judge decide his case."

That was his atty's call. I think his defense atty's ability and competence wasn't so great.

37 posted on 10/30/2007 8:33:53 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: robertpaulsen
"I thought he only had one friend with him, and that individual was being confronted by someone else. I don't believe his friend saw anything."

They were all in a group. Even though there were only 2 attackers, the other one would have noticed any overt beating of an unconscious friend.

38 posted on 10/30/2007 8:41:20 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: LIConFem
"Just a single punch"

The judge said, "Mike planted a fist into Jake's face ...". Which was enough to find that an assault took place.

The judge left unsaid whether it was limited to that one punch. It was irrelevant.

The defendant claimed there was only one punch. You believe him. But he lied to the police when they showed up, claiming Jake was drunk and fell.

39 posted on 10/30/2007 8:46:33 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen

Yep, I misspoke. But don’t you think his pal would have noticed him getting “stomped and kicked”, even if he was involved in a non-physical pi$$ing contest with one or more of Mette’s friends? I find it hard to believe such a thing would go unnoticed by any of the attendees.


40 posted on 10/30/2007 8:50:45 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: spunkets
"One punch was thrown"

"A" punch was thrown. The judge never said it was only one. Actually, he left it unsaid.

A punch was sufficient for the judge to find that an assault had occurred. Ten punches would not change that finding.

41 posted on 10/30/2007 8:51:26 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
Again, there was no evidence of anything more than a single punch offered, save for the speculations of the ER doc. And if I believe Mette, it's only because there's no evidence cotradicting his and others' eyewitness testimony, not even in the judge's findings (and yes, I would expect a judge to put all relevant fact in the "Finding of Facts" section of the ruling. There's lots of irrelevant info in there, so why not include a beating?).
42 posted on 10/30/2007 9:03:18 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: spunkets
"They were all in a group"

No, they weren't. I posted the link.

Chris was getting into his car. Mike and Mark were heading to the apartment door. They were separated.

Nick and Jake arrived and Nick went after Chris. Mark broke away and went to help Chris.

That left Mike and Jake alone. Since Jake's friend Nick was busy with two guys, I'm sure his attention was focused on those two.

Maybe Marks's friends saw what happened. But they ain't talkin'.

43 posted on 10/30/2007 9:03:23 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: LIConFem
Again, notwithstanding the jury pool demographic, Mette's big mistake was having the judge decide his case.

IMHO, Mette didn't seek a jury trial because the evidence was heavily against him. He sought a bench trial because he hoped that the judge would be inclined to look the other way because he was a police officer.

44 posted on 10/30/2007 9:03:55 AM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: RGSpincich

Agreed. The list of injuries sure read like he was stomped and kicked.


45 posted on 10/30/2007 9:05:25 AM PDT by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: LIConFem
"But don’t you think his pal would have noticed him getting “stomped and kicked”, even if he was involved in a non-physical pi$$ing contest with one or more of Mette’s friends?"

When you're in a potential physical confrontation with another person, you tend to focus on that other person. Totally.

When it's two against one, I guarantee you're not looking around or thinking of anything or anyone else.

So to answer your question, no. I don't think his pal would have noticed the local high school marching band going by. And I have to go back to the fact that the defendant lied at the scene.

46 posted on 10/30/2007 9:12:55 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
"And I have to go back to the fact that the defendant lied at the scene."

And I have to go back to the evidence (as we know it), rather than speculation.
47 posted on 10/30/2007 9:15:31 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: Melas
"The list of injuries sure read like he was stomped and kicked."

That's what the jury would have concluded also.

But it's a moot point. The extent of the injuries was the important issue in this case, not how many blows it took to inflict those injuries.

48 posted on 10/30/2007 9:19:39 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Melas
That may well be. To me, though, you stand a better chance with 12 than with 1. Mette may well have at least had a hung jury, if the defense could have swayed at least one juror.
49 posted on 10/30/2007 9:20:54 AM PDT by LIConFem (Thompson 2008. Lifetime ACU Rating: 86 -- Hunter 2008 (VP) Lifetime ACU Rating: 92)
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To: robertpaulsen
"The judge never said it was only one."

Assault consists of simple touching in an unwelcomed way. Note the assailent was not Mette. The miscreant began the unwelcomed touching first. He physically attacked Mette 3 times first, before Mette threw his first punch. THe assialant lost all right not to be hit as long as he continued that attack. The judge's finding of fact was consistant with one blow, delivered during an ongoing assault that was purpetrated and being vigorously engaged in by the assailant. That blow broke the assialant's nose, probably knocked him unconscious, whereupon he fell backwards and subsequently hit his head on the ground.

"A punch was sufficient for the judge to find that an assault had occurred. Ten punches would not change that finding."

Mette did not commit assault, regardless of what the judge said. The judge is in fact full of shit. Mette was under no obligation to let the assailant touch him n any way, any more whatsoever. He was also under no oblgation to turn his back to the assailant and flee, which would open and expose him to more danger. This liberal BS of insisting that folks leave themselves open to detached retinas, broken bones, brain damage, and other possible injuries due to the choices and actions of violent assailants, to promote their warped concept of "civility" and "peace" needs to be opposed at every occurance.

Folks can't all be experts at fending off violent nutcases w/o injuring the "precious" little asses. If they need to hit them with a pipe, a claw hammer, garbage can, sewer cap, ect... to stop the attack, so be it. It's the right thing to do.

50 posted on 10/30/2007 9:21:27 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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