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Melting Glacier Reveals Ancient Tree Stumps
Live Science ^ | 10-30-2007

Posted on 11/01/2007 10:28:47 AM PDT by blam

Melting Glacier Reveals Ancient Tree Stumps

LiveScience.com
Tue Oct 30, 2:15 PM ET

Melting glaciers in Western Canada are revealing tree stumps up to 7,000 years old where the region's rivers of ice have retreated to a historic minimum, a geologist said today.

Johannes Koch of The College of Wooster in Ohio found the fresh-looking, intact tree stumps beside retreating glaciers in Garibaldi Provincial Park, about 40 miles (60 kilometers) north of Vancouver, British Columbia.

Radiocarbon dating of the wood from the stumps revealed the wood was far from fresh—some of it dated back to within a few thousand years of the end of the last ice age.

"The stumps were in very good condition sometimes with bark preserved," said Koch, who conducted the work as part of his doctoral thesis at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, British Columbia. Koch will present his results on Oct. 31 at the Geological Society of America annual meeting in Denver.

The pristine condition of the wood, he said, can best be explained by the stumps having spent all of the last seven millennia under tens to hundreds of meters of ice. All stumps were still rooted to their original soil and location.

"Thus they really indicate when the glaciers overrode them, and their kill date gives the age of the glacier advance," Koch said. The age of the newly revealed ancient trees also indicates how long the glaciers have covered this region.

The recently warming climate released the stumps from their icy tombs, Koch said.

Koch compared the kill dates of the trees in the southern and northern Coast Mountains of British Columbia and those in the mid- and southern Rocky Mountains in Canada to similar records from the Yukon Territory, the European Alps, New Zealand and South America. He also looked at the age of Oetzi, the prehistoric mummified alpine "Iceman" found at Niederjoch Glacier, and similarly well-preserved wood from glaciers and snowfields in Scandinavia.

The radiocarbon dates seem to be the same around the world, according to Koch. There have been many advances and retreats of these glaciers over the past 7,000 years, but no retreats that have pushed them back so far upstream as to expose these trees.

The age of the tree stumps gives new emphasis to the well-documented before-and-after photographs of retreating glaciers during the past 100 years.

"It seems like an unprecedented change in a short amount of time," Koch said. "From this work and many other studies looking at forcings of the climate system, one has to turn away from natural ones alone to explain this dramatic change of the past 150 years."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agw; ancient; catastrophism; glacier; globalwarming; godsgravesglyphs; stumps; tree
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1 posted on 11/01/2007 10:28:49 AM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 11/01/2007 10:29:10 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

You mean 7,000 years ago we had global warming too?


3 posted on 11/01/2007 10:29:33 AM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: blam

That’s impossible. We’re constantly told that right now is the warmest we’ve ever been.


4 posted on 11/01/2007 10:31:00 AM PDT by Hoodlum91 (I support global warming.)
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To: 2banana
You mean 7,000 years ago we had global warming too?

Yeah, but that was good global warming.

5 posted on 11/01/2007 10:31:17 AM PDT by Steely Tom
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To: blam

So the trees grew there when it was much warmer in the past then today obviously.

Oh.

It was natural back then for trees to grow there and no ice?

But... not now?

Got it.


6 posted on 11/01/2007 10:31:52 AM PDT by Names Ash Housewares
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To: blam
An inconvenient tree stump?
7 posted on 11/01/2007 10:32:41 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (ah!)
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To: blam

The last paragraph was written by someone worried about future government funding for their chosen field of study.


8 posted on 11/01/2007 10:33:15 AM PDT by bigfootbob
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To: blam

Uhhhh....

If they are finding tree stumps,

that means there were trees at one time,

which means the ice didn’t cover the area,

which means there must have been global warming 7,000 years ago.

==

Those melting glaciers could mess up the current global warming cries.


9 posted on 11/01/2007 10:33:15 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Names Ash Housewares

Hehe!


10 posted on 11/01/2007 10:33:22 AM PDT by TheDon (The DemocRAT party is the party of TREASON! Overthrow the terrorist's congress!)
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To: blam
"one has to turn away from natural ones alone to explain this dramatic change of the past 150 years."

Unbelievable. Clearly, a natural process buried these trees in ice. But the reverse process simply MUST be caused by man.

11 posted on 11/01/2007 10:33:36 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agamemnon dead.)
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To: 2banana
Boy, you would think there was some kind of repeating cycle going on. Nah, can't be.


12 posted on 11/01/2007 10:34:20 AM PDT by Names Ash Housewares
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To: 2banana

No, we had global COOLING. The global warming was for a long period preceding that.


13 posted on 11/01/2007 10:34:59 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: 2banana

That part always seems to get glossed over in these articles.


14 posted on 11/01/2007 10:35:03 AM PDT by SengirV
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To: Names Ash Housewares

The discovery and proliferation of fire by cavemen allowed these trees to grow during the last human-induced globull warming period. Early Man Bear Pig then killed all the cavemen and presto, Ice Age.


15 posted on 11/01/2007 10:35:47 AM PDT by eyedigress
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To: blam

If a glacier destroys a forest, and nobody hears it.......


16 posted on 11/01/2007 10:36:45 AM PDT by G-Bear (Religiously, five times a day, I turn my back on Mecca and fart!)
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To: blam
"It seems like an unprecedented change in a short amount of time," Koch said. "From this work and many other studies looking at forcings of the climate system, one has to turn away from natural ones alone to explain this dramatic change of the past 150 years."

He is a globull warming alarmist to the end. While the globull warming 7,000 years ago HAD to have been a natural occurance, there is NO WAY it is THIS time. </sarc>

17 posted on 11/01/2007 10:37:51 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: blam

The planet is just naturally switching its temperature, as it does from time to time. Al Gore doesn’t have a damn thing to do with it. We’re coming out of the “little ice age”.


18 posted on 11/01/2007 10:38:33 AM PDT by DesScorp
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To: blam
one has to turn away from natural ones alone to explain this dramatic change of the past 150 years

The invention of photography, which coincided with the discovery of socialism explains most of the dramatic change.

19 posted on 11/01/2007 10:38:43 AM PDT by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: blam
It’s interesting that all this occurred during the present interglacial. So, after the last glacial max the glaciers retreated enough for a forest to appear, but then marched back down to cover the forest until now. Curious.
20 posted on 11/01/2007 10:40:37 AM PDT by colorado tanker (I'm unmoderated - just ask Bill O'Reilly)
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To: blam
There have been many advances and retreats of these glaciers over the past 7,000 years,

The inconvenience of truths....but they're still trying to spin it as being part of the scam -

Makes no never mind what the truth is.

But when alls said and done, I'll take a swing towards a bit of warming before another Little Ice Age - any day.

These scum bags of the Great Swindle have to be stopped - they're after more mega-fund money to carry out some pseudo science that could have disastrous consequences...

IT'S THE SUN!

I vote we send Gore to the sun, post haste, to fix the problem. At the very least, to Mars, whose polar ice cap is melting at a faster rate than ours.

And why are they flocking to the Arctic, where there IS a cyclical melt going on while now ignoring the Antarctic, where there's a new freeze underway?

Rhetorical question -

21 posted on 11/01/2007 10:41:51 AM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" LINCOLN)
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To: 2banana

Actually 7000 years ago it was global cooling, because the glaciers were advancing. On the other hand, before they were advancing, that part of Canada was MUCH warmer than it is now, thus allowing the trees to grow. The evidence of forest growth in far northern reaches is proof that temperatures in the not too distant past were warmer than today, and as far as I know, the ice agers around then didn’t drive cars to hunt the mammoth and other game.
........As for being proof of global warming, ask why sea ice in antarctica was at RECORD levels this past summer (the southern hemispheres winter)? One could take that fact as evidence of global cooling.


22 posted on 11/01/2007 10:42:33 AM PDT by milwguy
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To: colorado tanker

Now if we could only get AlGore to sit on it we would have a story


23 posted on 11/01/2007 10:43:10 AM PDT by Cyman
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To: blam
Melting glaciers in Western Canada are revealing tree stumps up to 7,000 years old where the region's rivers of ice have retreated to a historic minimum,

The evidence of tree stumps invalidates the accuracy of recorded history (which for GW supplicants goes back over 150 years!).

24 posted on 11/01/2007 10:44:10 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze
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To: blam
....where the region's rivers of ice have retreated to a historic minimum.....

Obviously not...............

25 posted on 11/01/2007 10:44:53 AM PDT by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: blam

The earth is 6000 years old and before the big flood the atmosphere was much thicker making it like a giant terrarium. So yes, it was much warmer at the poles.


26 posted on 11/01/2007 10:46:46 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Al Gore, the Jessie Jackson of weather.)
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To: DesScorp
Al Gore doesn’t have a damn thing to do with it.

Keep talking like that, and you're going to lose your government research grants!

27 posted on 11/01/2007 10:49:25 AM PDT by SittinYonder (Ic ■Št gehate, ■Št ic heonon nelle fleon fotes trym, ac wille fur­or gan)
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To: blam
...where the region's rivers of ice have retreated to a historic minimum...

Well, obviously NOT a historic minimum, if the ice wasnt there back then to have trees growing!

It really is staggering that they still expect us to buy this crap!

28 posted on 11/01/2007 10:50:08 AM PDT by Tatze (I'm in a state of taglinelessness!)
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To: blam
If this is a glacier and not a ice sheet, why weren’t the tree stumps up rooted & ground up? Glaciers flow.
29 posted on 11/01/2007 10:50:23 AM PDT by Deaf Smith
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To: Cyman
Now if we could only get AlGore to sit on it we would have a story

Well, Al does act like he has a stump up his . . . .

30 posted on 11/01/2007 10:50:33 AM PDT by colorado tanker (I'm unmoderated - just ask Bill O'Reilly)
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To: 2banana

Yes, and it was our fault. Fortunately, Al Gore was there to save us, ushering in the beneficial ice age that killed every living thing in it’s path, and thus preserved for our children and children’s children these wonderful tree stumps.


31 posted on 11/01/2007 10:52:00 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: blam

Now wait a minute. If they are stumps that means someone cut them off, that means it is Bushes fault.


32 posted on 11/01/2007 10:52:03 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: blam

Now wait a minute. If they are stumps that means someone cut them off, that means it is Bushes fault.


33 posted on 11/01/2007 10:53:05 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( Seeking the truth here folks.)
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To: blam
There have been many advances and retreats of these glaciers over the past 7,000 years, but no retreats that have pushed them back so far upstream as to expose these trees.

How is Algore going to explain why trees were growing in that area IF the temperatures were warm enough to have plants growing there?

< moonbat mode on>

Halliburton must have planted those stumps during the night.

< /moonbat mode>

34 posted on 11/01/2007 10:54:35 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (I've been too busy for FR this weekend, because I did the things I refuse to let the invaders do.)
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To: 2banana

Yes, its true. Apparently ancient civilizations from 7,000 years ago also used Metro Bus’s firing up diesel engines.....


35 posted on 11/01/2007 10:54:38 AM PDT by Badeye ('Ron Paul joined 88 Democrats.....")
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To: Badeye

These were rare and endangered Ice trees. Now they are being killed off by global warming. Shame, shame.....


36 posted on 11/01/2007 10:57:03 AM PDT by shankbear (Al-Qaeda grew while Monica blew)
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To: blam

gee, that would mean there wasn’t a glazer on top of it at one time????? Would that mean we had global COOLING????


37 posted on 11/01/2007 10:59:55 AM PDT by Jewels1091
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To: blam

Al Gore’s ancestors????


38 posted on 11/01/2007 11:00:10 AM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: blam

>>”It seems like an unprecedented change in a short amount of time,” Koch said. “From this work and many other studies looking at forcings of the climate system, one has to turn away from natural ones alone to explain this dramatic change of the past 150 years.”<<

I thought it was 7,000 years, not 150.

7,000 is quite a while.


39 posted on 11/01/2007 11:07:52 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in 1938.)
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To: blam

And not just warm enough to grow some grasses on permafrost, warm enough to grow large trees. We are still deep in an ice age.


40 posted on 11/01/2007 11:08:17 AM PDT by Perchant
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To: blam

Hmm. Tree stumps.

Looks like it used to be warmer around those parts. I wonder who was to blame.


41 posted on 11/01/2007 11:08:58 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in 1938.)
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To: 75thOVI; AFPhys; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; ...
Cool find (so to speak), but of course, his political agenda is a load. Thanks Blam.
 
Catastrophism
 
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic ·
 

42 posted on 11/01/2007 11:09:55 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Monday, October 22, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 2banana

historical accident. This time it’s on purpose ;)


43 posted on 11/01/2007 11:10:29 AM PDT by zek157
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To: blam; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; 49th; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


44 posted on 11/01/2007 11:11:20 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Monday, October 22, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam
Melting glaciers in Western Canada are revealing tree stumps up to 7,000 years old where the region's rivers of ice have retreated to a historic minimum

Obviously only if "historic" is defined as within the past 7000 years -- a concept which would fly with Biblical creationists, but they aren't exactly the core of the global warming alarmism movement.

45 posted on 11/01/2007 11:13:07 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Names Ash Housewares

What is the authoritative source of this graph showing temperature swings, dust and CO2 concentrations?


46 posted on 11/01/2007 11:14:03 AM PDT by 4FreeSpeach
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To: Arrowhead1952

“How is Algore going to explain why trees were growing in that area IF the temperatures were warm enough to have plants growing there?”

LOL! Now you’ve done it! That rumble in the Earth you feel is a giant robotic version of Al Gore coming for you!


47 posted on 11/01/2007 11:14:11 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Monday, October 22, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: blam; Killing Time; Beowulf; Mr. Peabody; RW_Whacko; honolulugal; SideoutFred; Ole Okie; ...


FReepmail me to get on or off
Click on POGW graphic for full GW rundown
Dr. John Ray's
GREENIE WATCH


"Cool" er warm... er....
48 posted on 11/01/2007 11:17:24 AM PDT by xcamel (FDT/2008)
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To: RobRoy

Obviously it’s Bush’s fault, er, Haliburton, er, Big Oil, er, mean spirited Republicans...


49 posted on 11/01/2007 11:18:23 AM PDT by oneolcop (Take off the gloves!)
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To: 4FreeSpeach

Vostok ice core data.

Just do a google search. There are tons of graphs for it.


50 posted on 11/01/2007 11:24:34 AM PDT by Names Ash Housewares
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