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Battle Rages in London Over a Mega-Mosque Plan
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/world/europe/04megamosque.html?_r=1&th=&oref=slogin&emc=th&pagewanted=print ^ | 11/04/2007 | Jane Perlez

Posted on 11/04/2007 6:23:39 AM PST by XR7

LONDON — Disputes over mosques have broken out across Europe. Residents from Belgium to France to Germany have expressed unease at minarets competing in the urban landscape with the spires and stones of centuries-old cathedrals.

But the fight raging over an abandoned lot in London’s East End is of an altogether grander scale. A large and secretive Islamic sect proposed building what would have been the largest mosque in Europe, smack at the gateway to the 2012 Olympic Games, and within sight of London’s financial district.

That plan was sent back to the drawing board to be scaled down, but not before raising a furor of equal size and discomforting questions about the right of Britain’s Muslims to take up a public space commensurate with their growing numbers.

This summer on the Web site of Prime Minister Gordon Brown, more than 250,000 critics of the proposed mosque supported a petition initiated...

In Newham, the borough where the mosque would stand, Alan Craig, the leader of the Christian Peoples Alliance Party in the East End, started a one-man campaign against the mosque a year ago that has grown and gained national prominence...But now he focuses on its sponsor, Tablighi Jamaat, a worldwide evangelical Islamic group based in Pakistan with millions of followers that professes to encourage Muslims to be more loyal to their faith.

American and European law enforcement officials say Tablighi Jamaat’s simple message masks a fertile recruiting ground for terrorists. Two of the suicide bombers who attacked the London transit system in July 2005 had attended Tablighi Jamaat gatherings, British security officials said...

Mr. Craig said...“They refer to us as kafir,” a term of contempt, he added. “That’s not what we need. We don’t want this mosque in East London. It will be disastrous.”...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: dajjal; dhimmitude; enemywithin; infiltration; islam; jihad; kafir; london; megamosque; mosque; muhammadsminions; muslims; pedophilemohammed; stopislamization; submission; ukmuslims; waronislamism
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1 posted on 11/04/2007 6:23:41 AM PST by XR7
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To: XR7

As mosques go up, the church comes down.


2 posted on 11/04/2007 6:27:29 AM PST by period end of story (I may be totally wrong, but I'm a dancing fool.)
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To: XR7

I thought about the Mosque of the Americas in Detroit last night.

I was outside checking out comet Holmes when two attack helicopters flew directly over head, very low and headed toward Detroit. The mosque thought was my first. Wishful thinking I guess.


3 posted on 11/04/2007 6:30:14 AM PST by cripplecreek (Greed is NOT a conservative ideal.)
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To: XR7
islam is NOT a religion, it's a political system. Would the Brits allow another country to build a government building in the middle of London and declare that it was not in England? Or allow another country to move in and declare their own form of government? Declare their own laws? Courts? Collect their own taxes? Etc.

islam is designed to take over whatever it touches. Any nation with any sense would not allow mosques period. But if they have to allow them only allow the same number of new ones to be built equal to the number of new Christian churches being built in Saudi Arabia.

4 posted on 11/04/2007 6:35:29 AM PST by isthisnickcool (Judy Ruliani - Could our next president be a drag....queen?)
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To: XR7
Thirty-six years ago Elton John released “Tumbleweed Connection” and on that album, the song “Burn Down the Mission”
5 posted on 11/04/2007 6:37:08 AM PST by BenLurkin
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To: XR7

I passed a Mosque the other week that had a 20 foot wall in front of it. That seemed odd.


6 posted on 11/04/2007 6:40:15 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (ETERNAL SHAME on the Treasonous and Immoral Democrats!)
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7 posted on 11/04/2007 6:40:38 AM PST by XR7
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To: isthisnickcool
Would the Brits allow another country to build a government building in the middle of London and declare that it was not in England?

Well, actually they do. They're called "ambassies", but I get your point. A large mosque has historically been the Muzzies way of saying

"This land is ours, for as far as can be seen from the top of the minaret (or as far as you can shoot a bow from the top of the minaret)".

8 posted on 11/04/2007 6:45:57 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty)
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To: SauronOfMordor

ambassies=embassies


9 posted on 11/04/2007 6:46:48 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty)
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To: XR7

I’ve seen several huge billboatds in the Chicago area that say, in 8-foot high letters: I S L A M. Then, in small script off to the side are “Peace” and a couple other lies, and telephone numbers and, I think, a web address.

The all-out fight is getting closer, my friends.


10 posted on 11/04/2007 6:47:37 AM PST by ought-six ("Give me liberty, or give me death!")
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: XR7

“Would the Brits allow another country to build a government building in the middle of London and declare that it was not in England? Or allow another country to move in and declare their own form of government? Declare their own laws? Courts? Collect their own taxes? Etc.”

That appears exactly what is happening. It seems to have been going on for some years now. Londonistan by Melanie Phillips is a good survey of how and why it has happened.


12 posted on 11/04/2007 6:48:32 AM PST by Maine Mariner
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To: XR7
I propose a deal:

England will allow the building of a mosque on a one-for-one square foot basis with Churches allowed to be built and operated in Saudi Arabia.

13 posted on 11/04/2007 6:50:36 AM PST by null and void (No more Bushes/No more Clintons)
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To: ought-six

Coming closer indeed


14 posted on 11/04/2007 6:51:00 AM PST by wastedyears (One Marine vs. 550 consultants. Sounds like good odds to me.)
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To: isthisnickcool

GMTA...


15 posted on 11/04/2007 6:51:34 AM PST by null and void (No more Bushes/No more Clintons)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

The mosque in Perrysville, OH (just south of Toledo) also has a large wall in front of it. In addition, in the back it also has a large loading dock, which I’m sure is not used to move in the scenery for its annual Christmas pageant.


16 posted on 11/04/2007 6:53:36 AM PST by Socratic (“Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow; it empties today of its strength.” - Corrie Ten Boom)
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To: jp11
You like accept it and like it. You think you can stop it! HAHAHA

You joined TODAY to post this?

17 posted on 11/04/2007 6:55:59 AM PST by Lizavetta ( Politicians: When they're speaking, they're lying - when they're not speaking, they're stealing.)
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To: XR7

Palestinian Researcher: Building Giant Mosques in Europe Is a Provocation that Harms the Muslims
MEMRI
http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD175007

In an article, Palestinian researcher Dr. Khaled Al-Hroub criticized the Muslims in Europe for not condemning terrorist attacks and thereby harming the image of the Muslims. He also argued against building giant mosques in Europe, saying that this provokes the host societies and works to the Muslims’ disadvantage.

The following are the excerpts from the article: [1]

The Silence of Europe’s Muslims Following Terrorist Attacks Has Hurt Their Image
“There has been an ongoing debate in Britain regarding the plans of some Muslims, namely the Tabligh Group, to build a mosque in East London that would be the biggest in Britain, if not in Europe. Reports on the mosque plans indicate that it will hold 40,000 people, with an option for an extension that will increase its capacity to 70,000... Why are the Muslims in Europe insisting on building mosques of such extravagant size? And why is it that the building of such mosques arouses public and political protest in the societies that host the Muslims?

“The climate in Europe changed following the September 11, 2001 attacks, the 2005 bombings in the Madrid subway, and the [2005] bombing in the London underground. The murder of the Dutch director [Theo Van Gogh], who made a film on the oppression of Muslim women, [further contributed to this change]. Next came violent incidents that accompanied the protest against the Danish cartoons and the notorious speech by the pope [that offended Muslims].

“Following all this, [the world] began to regard the Muslims with great suspicion. They came to be seen as a threat and a source of violence. [It was said] that some of their mosques were hothouses of terrorism, and that they undermine [the foundations] of the society in which they live.

“The images of bearded ‘religious’ [Muslims] who assiduously attend mosques in European neighborhoods have severely harmed the Muslim diaspora... These people appear on videos after every terrorist attack, [announcing] proudly that it was they who were behind the terrorist operations. At the same time, the vast Muslim diaspora - [although] its overwhelming majority is peaceful and does not support all this terrorism and violence - bears a great deal of responsibility for not protecting its nonviolent image. Several friends have told me that in Spain, the reputation of the Muslims suffered following the train station bombings, and that the silence and indifference of the diaspora [vis-à-vis the bombings] reinforced the deterioration of their image.

“The Muslim diaspora did not come out forcefully to defend its reputation and proclaim its protest against the extremist group in its midst which had perpetrated the terrorist attack. The Spanish people did not sense that the Muslims in their country felt any special empathy with them. [On the contrary:] The silence of the Muslims was construed as acquiescence to what had occurred.

“The same is true for the Muslims in Britain, most of whom are peaceful individuals - they remained silent and passive in the face of [the extremists] who are sinking the ship along with its passengers...”

Those Who Built Large Mosques in Europe Should be Ashamed that the Relief of the Muslim Poor Worldwide is Mostly Financed by Foreign Organizations

“[Despite] the growing hostility towards them, the Muslims in Europe fail to show the appropriate sensitivity called for by the circumstances. Instead, they act as if they lived on a different planet, planning religious centers and mosques. The problem is that each Muslim group in the diaspora thinks and acts in total isolation from the other groups and their problems.

“The Tabligh group, for example, which is responsible for the giant mosque [project] in East London, is unconnected to politics. It is a quiet, nonviolent group with limited political and social understanding: Its members believe that the building of mosques is incumbent upon them alone, and not upon all the Muslims in Britain. They forget that the British make no distinction between different Muslim groups or between the different strata of the Muslim diaspora; rather, they see [the Muslims] as a homogeneous mass of bearded men in long garments, and veil-clad women. [The behavior of the Muslims] provokes European society and promotes European racism.

“Spending more than half a billion dollars on the construction of the giant mosque in London will not help the Muslims; [rather,] it will harm them. Even if we concede that building mosques is a top priority that warrants such an exorbitant expenditure - which is clearly not the case - this money could be used to build many mosques in different parts of Britain which would not stick out like sore thumbs, annoying the surrounding community.

“At a time when poverty, hunger, ignorance, and disease are ravaging millions around the world, the need to nurture humanity is far more urgent than [the need] to build mosques. Those who donate [money] to build large mosques in Europe, thereby promoting Islamophobia, should feel ashamed that the relief to the Muslim poor worldwide - in Afghanistan, Darfur, Somalia, and Indonesia - is mostly financed by foreign organizations, some of them European.”

Comparing “[European] and Muslim Societies With Regard to Freedom of Worship Brings Disgrace Upon [the Muslims]”

“Some people wonder, what happened to ‘European tolerance?’ Why don’t the Europeans accept strangers? How come they reject the Muslims and oppose the building of mosques? Such questions are in fact evading the real problem. The problem [we are facing] is how to avoid provoking European society, how not to exaggerate in displaying religious [symbols] - such as large mosques and religious establishments - and how to refrain from flaunting them in public...

“Any comparison of [European] and Muslim societies with regard to freedom of worship brings disgrace upon the Muslims. We should be asking ourselves, In which Islamic capital is it permitted to build a church or, say, a Hindu or Sikh temple, bigger than any of the city’s mosques? In which Islamic state is it possible to purchase mosques and convert them into churches or Hindu temples - as is now happening in Europe, where many a mosque minaret still sports a cross that remains from when [the building] used to be a church. Would any of the Islamic groups currently engaged in building mosques [and in other religious activities] in Europe enjoy the same freedom in their countries of origin?

“None of the above comes to argue that every European is pure of heart and free of Islamophobia or xenophobia. Hidden hatred exists, as does the extreme right with its frightening plans. It only comes to say that [in the West,] religion and religious ceremonies are not the center of everyone’s attention. Most people are not [overly] concerned with religion, and the general culture is one of respect for the freedom of individuals and groups to realize their aspirations... [In fact,] the law respects and safeguards the interests of [all] people, including their religious [interests], and requires certain municipal authorities to provide financial assistance for mosque construction. “The biggest question regarding the Muslim diaspora in Europe is, therefore, how prudent it will be in its handling of the [current] historical circumstances, which demand extreme sensitivity. The construction of large mosques in European cities is not essential; it is a provocation that will harm the whole Muslim [community] there.”


[1] Al-Ayyam (Palestinian Authority), September 24, 2007.


18 posted on 11/04/2007 6:56:10 AM PST by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: XR7

Europe is lost.


19 posted on 11/04/2007 7:09:27 AM PST by Axlrose
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: ought-six

The mosque in Plano, Texas (of all places) has a fence, and a sign out front that reads “Humanity First”. What a laugh that was - their stupid rules trample down humanity!


21 posted on 11/04/2007 7:26:13 AM PST by Moonmad27
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To: Socratic
in the back it also has a large loading dock

Whoa bouy - ominous.

Build a warehouse for weapons, call it a mosque - and it's off limits for inspection =- build in strategic locations around the country = and one day, all hell will break loose.

Better armor up before the Socialists take away our guns

22 posted on 11/04/2007 7:34:07 AM PST by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" LINCOLN)
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To: XR7

Beware of people who have a “big building” complex. Hitler was the same way.


23 posted on 11/04/2007 7:52:07 AM PST by popdonnelly (Get Reid. Salazar, and Harkin out of the Senate.)
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To: ought-six
Have you ever read Dan Simmon's - Time Traveler that's been posted on FR several times?

It's fictional piece of work he wrote in '06 I think.

24 posted on 11/04/2007 7:57:05 AM PST by processing please hold (Duncan Hunter '08) (ROP and Open Borders-a terrorist marriage and hell's coming with them)
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: XR7

Multiculturalism and diversity are such wonderful ways to dispel tradition. The Mosque is not a CHURCH they are SCHOOLS...with prayer rooms...mainly TEACHING goes on. They are like colleges or universities.


26 posted on 11/04/2007 8:09:48 AM PST by yoe ( NO THIRD TERM FOR THE CLINTON'S!!!)
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To: period end of story

Time to simply outlaw them. The religion of Islam is not compatible with any W. European or American heritage, culture, trends, language, and religious forebearers. Oh I know, the ACLU will go wild and the Left in Europe, always willing to surrender, will scream. But, time is short for national survival. Americans are wussies and will be afraid to admit this. But, Western Europe and the USA better do it or risk complete destruction from within. Legal Muslim citizens can worship in their homes or warehouses as many churches do, ala Calvary Chapel and or the Vineyard. But, Super Mosques with their fanatical imans, stop them cold.


27 posted on 11/04/2007 8:13:02 AM PST by phillyfanatic
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To: ARE SOLE

Build a Cathedral in Down Town Riyadh,Saudi Arabia or destroy every Mohammed out house in the West, time to stop pretending, the islamic saracens hates your guts.
When will you wake up out of your stupid mode


28 posted on 11/04/2007 8:15:37 AM PST by Mojohemi (urie)
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To: XR7
Send an Send an (E-Mail to Jane Perlez)....author of the article. Mosques are Trojan Horses....not Churches.
29 posted on 11/04/2007 8:20:40 AM PST by yoe ( NO THIRD TERM FOR THE CLINTON'S!!!)
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To: Socratic

Post a picture and an address please.


30 posted on 11/04/2007 8:35:54 AM PST by yoe ( NO THIRD TERM FOR THE CLINTON'S!!!)
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To: phillyfanatic
Time to simply outlaw them.

And how would you like the 1st Amendment reworded?

31 posted on 11/04/2007 8:43:28 AM PST by Doe Eyes
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To: maine-iac7

“Better armor up before the Socialists take away our guns.”

Do not surrender your guns. Once disarmed, one is nothing but a slave in training.


32 posted on 11/04/2007 8:49:11 AM PST by ought-six ("Give me liberty, or give me death!")
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To: XR7

The future?


33 posted on 11/04/2007 8:53:38 AM PST by onedoug
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To: Maine Mariner
The answer to your first question is, yes. They do it all the time. It's called an Embassy.

The rest, I hope not.

34 posted on 11/04/2007 8:59:28 AM PST by purpleraine
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To: Doe Eyes

“And how would you like the 1st Amendment reworded?”

You don’t. You make the hard but necessary choice to kick islam out of America for being overwhelmingly hostile to American national interests. We either do that, or allow the horrific cancer that is islam to take root and metastasize. Really, those are the only two possible outcomes, because islam does not compromise or accommodate, as such considerations are fatal to islam’s survival.


35 posted on 11/04/2007 9:00:19 AM PST by ought-six ("Give me liberty, or give me death!")
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To: ought-six

Keep up the good work

All the best
Osama bin Laden


36 posted on 11/04/2007 9:05:34 AM PST by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: isthisnickcool
Would the Brits allow another country to build a government building in the middle of London and declare that it was not in England?

American Embassy in London

37 posted on 11/04/2007 9:10:13 AM PST by wideminded
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To: yoe

Could this be it?

http://www.icgt.org/images/Main.htm


38 posted on 11/04/2007 9:27:35 AM PST by toldyou
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To: wideminded; yoe; Valin; isthisnickcool; XR7

IMHO, you might be interested in reading this whole article.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/WireStory?id=3744193&page=1

“Feds Recommend Closing Saudi School in Va.
Federal Panel Recommends Closing Saudi School in Va. to Ensure It’s Not Nurturing Radicalism”

[The report also criticizes the school’s administrative structure, saying it is little more than an offshoot of the Saudi Embassy, with the Saudi ambassador to the United States serving as chairman of the school’s board of directors. The structure “raises serious concerns about whether it is in violation of a U.S. law restricting the activities of foreign embassies.”

After the Sept. 11 attacks, critics questioned the nature of the religious education at the Saudi academy. The school again found itself in the spotlight in 2005, when a former class valedictorian, Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, was charged with joining al-Qaida while attending college in Saudi Arabia and plotting to assassinate President Bush.

Abu Ali was convicted in federal court and sentenced to 30 years in prison. He is appealing his conviction.]


39 posted on 11/04/2007 9:39:46 AM PST by khnyny (Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed. Winston Churchill)
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To: yoe
I don't know how to post a image, but use this (the wall is behind the hill adjacent to the main parking lot):

http://www.pluralism.org/research/profiles/images/68979/Ohio56_med.jpg

Directions to the Islamic Center, coming on I-75 from the north Exit at 193 (Perrysburg/Fremont Exit). Go to stop light (Harley-Davidson dealership will be in front of you). Turn right on to Rt 20. Turn left at E. South Boundary (Speedway Gas Station on the left). Proceed to second traffic light, Louisiana Ave., Rt 199 (Key Bank, Radio Shack). Turn left at light. Go past US Post Office on left, over I-75 overpass. Turn right onto Scheider Rd. (at Big Blue Water Tower).

40 posted on 11/04/2007 10:10:48 AM PST by Socratic (“Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow; it empties today of its strength.” - Corrie Ten Boom)
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To: XR7

“Battle Rages in London Over a Mega-Mosque Plan”

Who will say “No” when they know their heads (and those of their family
and friends) will probably get sawed off to the sound of “Alluha Ackbar!!!!!!”


41 posted on 11/04/2007 10:15:42 AM PST by VOA
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To: XR7

btt


42 posted on 11/04/2007 10:37:40 AM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: khnyny
I was involved in that in 1998. At the time I lived in Sterling, Virginia and a handful of us Loudoun County citizens objected to the Saudis building their Islamic Saudi Academy (Madrassa)that was to be the size of two football fields - to include an 800-bed dormitory - and the religious studies were being controlled by the Saudi government, with a mineret that could be seen for miles away - furthermore, I do not doubt that they would be having their call to prayer five times a day (which they are now doing in one town in Michigan) had they been able to build their school for terrorists.

Because of our concerns dealing with security, we were called bigots, racists, un-American, un-Christian, by name in the Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post. The local newspapers were even worse.

I hope that in some small way our efforts are what help the FBI keep the school from being built. There were to be 100 more school buses on the already overcrowded roads.

As I understand it, the Saudis bought cheap (thanks to the Loudoun County Board Members) and sold high.

One American representing the Saudis got up and said, (and I kid you not), "The citizens of Loudoun County do not have the right to tell the Saudi government what they can or can't do in this country," to which my husband got up and said, "George Washington, George Mason and Thomas Jefferson must be rolling in their graves!"

43 posted on 11/04/2007 1:31:28 PM PST by Doctor13
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To: XR7
After seeing this photo, I am reminded that several years ago there was a demonstration in front of British Parliament with signs that read, "Islam. Our religion today, your religion tomorrow."

Another report from Britain read "We will replace the Bible with the Koran." And they aren't kidding. Today, washbasins are being provided at airports and universities for Muslims to be able to wash their feet before praying. Muslim students are provided prayer rooms in schools for the entire month of Ramadan while our children cannot bend their head to say a prayer over their lunches, or a teacher breaks a child's pencil because it is inscribed with "Jesus is Lord." Christmas plays have all but disappeared while even the colors of red and green have been banned. What happened to Separation of Church and state unless it doesn't apply to Islam.

It appears that Mohammed is in and Christ is out.

44 posted on 11/04/2007 1:41:09 PM PST by Doctor13
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To: XR7

accidentally spill some pig blood on the site and then they won’t want to build there anymore.

Pigs are great.


45 posted on 11/04/2007 8:57:00 PM PST by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife
accidentally spill some pig blood on the site...

Heck, why not just use "the whole hog"?
Cut a couple loose to prepare the soil, cultivate and fertilize the construction site.


46 posted on 11/05/2007 3:06:06 AM PST by XR7
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To: XR7

Expel them and you’ll be all right.


47 posted on 11/05/2007 3:22:32 AM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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To: Doe Eyes

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, with the exception of the political entity by the name of Islam or any variant that worships Allah or his false prophet Mohammed; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


48 posted on 11/05/2007 3:32:13 AM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: There is no god named Allah, and Muhammed is a false prophet)
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To: isthisnickcool
Would the Brits allow another country to build a government building in the middle of London and declare that it was not in England? Or allow another country to move in and declare their own form of government? Declare their own laws? Courts? Collect their own taxes? Etc.

Interesting questions.

Isn't this exactly what the British government is already doing now?

49 posted on 11/05/2007 3:35:02 AM PST by airborne (Proud to be a conservative! Proud to support Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: XR7
Coming soon to the country you live in?
50 posted on 11/05/2007 3:43:52 AM PST by Eye of Unk
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