Posted on 11/04/2007 10:21:55 PM PST by george76
The father of an Ontario man killed in a wolf attack in northern Saskatchewan says it's a relief to finally have the truth come out.
A coroner's jury in Prince Albert ruled Thursday that wolves killed Kenton Carnegie in November 2005.
The 22-year-old University of Waterloo engineering student had been on a work-term ...
An expert, who prepared a report for the coroner's office, said it was more likely a bear killed Carnegie. But in the end, the jury dismissed that notion, declaring it a wolf attack.
"Kenton was an honest man," he said. "His life was honest, we didn't want his life to be dishonest. We wanted the truth of his death to be made public."
The jury also came up with a detailed list of ways to prevent similar deaths. One of the items on the list included educating the public and people who work in the wilderness to make them aware of the danger of predators, such as wolves.
The jury also wants the province to issue immediate permits to shoot problem animals.
(Excerpt) Read more at cbc.ca ...
latest
Ya know I saw this hour show on direct tv other night. This german lady wanted to find some wolves in BC. In the end she had wolves walkin up smellin her, no joke.
They must have been conditioned to people cause wolves where we live are super scarce around people. I shot at a blk wolf back during moose season , but it was runnin for brush and I was far off, missed.
WE killed some caribou yesterday. Bou are migrating and this one spot where they cross road, gut piles everywhere from locals subsistence season. Wolves following bou migration are cleaning up gut piles. We saw one early in morn but he took off before we could shoot; still good seein one.
I can’t wait till yukon freezes so I can start setting snares. Those wolves make a fool outta me, smarter than most people but still alot of fun trying to fool them.
Although even then i really questioned it ....a hungry pack of wolves can take down Elk. A human being wouldn't be much trouble. And if they took down a human, in the wildnerness, and they ate him (including a lot of the bones, with the rest being taken care of by scavengers ranging from foxes in the US to badgers in Europe), would any evidence be left? Or if it is snowing? For all intents and purposes the person would be termed as 'lost.' Nowadays it may be much harder, but it would be hard to convince me that in the olden days (e.g. before wolves were killed off in Europe, which I have to say was on the extreme side) no one was ever killed by wolves.
It kind of reminds me of something else i used to hear as a child ....that in Africa Hyenas are scavengers, and that they do not attack people ....until later 'discoveries' showed that hyenas are actually one of the most effective efficient hunters (second only to African WildDogs), and that in some areas do not even need to scavenge (with cases of lions even scavenging from hyena kills). And as for killing people ....well, ranging from faces bitten off to kids snatched away to one case of a hyena biting through a sheet-metal home to get to the occupants inside! Let's say hyenas may not have the tally of man-eating lions, but they are not stupid laughing mangy beasts (an adult femal hyena - the females are larger and have more or less the same genetalia as the males - is quite big, and has jaws that can crack anything that doesn't have 'diamond' or 'titanium' in its name).
“short pants get you killed every time”
So they kill those who want to dress cool in the summer?
There was one other documented case in Canada.
I sincerely doubt that his last words were "Dang, I wish I had a permit to shoot you..."
I have to wonder if the poor man was completely mislead to underestimate the presence of predators and their true danger to himself.
What a horror! Prayers for the family.
The jury also wants the province to issue immediate permits to shoot problem animals.
I sincerely doubt that his last words were “Dang, I wish I had a permit to shoot you...”
I have to wonder if the poor man was completely mislead to underestimate the presence of predators and their true danger to himself.
What a horror!
Those in Government and what they do
They are not of US
They are not by US
They are not for US
W
I’m not completely clear on why it’s so important to the family to have an official finding that their son was killed by a wolf, rather than by a bear. After all, he’s no less dead. Nevertheless, I hope they find comfort and closure in this act.
I would think it would be a short list..
We don’t have grizzly bears in Colorado, either. Until one kills someone. A couple of months back, we were camping in high country (about 11,000 feet) and a grizzly walked right up to the encampment.
Four hours before that, we’d taken pictures of a black bear. I saw the grizzly, grabbed my weapon and camera. Fumbled the camera but kept hold of the gun. :)
We made a LOT of racket and he watched us a few minutes, then moseyed off. He didn’t run like a black bear would have. He slowly walked away.
State wildlife folks have refused to admit it was a grizzly even though I correctly identified the prints, and the outline of the bear. They put it down in the books “as a very large, male black bear”....
One day, someone’s going to get ate by one and they’ll blame it on coyotes.
Wolves are not known to attack folks, unless they're incapacitated, the wolf is rabid, or they're being fed by human's(including garbage dumps). Athough they're not generally dangerous to people, the watermellons won't let folks defend themselves effectively against wolf attacks.
Why do you think that the DOW does not want to admit that there are grizzly bears in Colorado ?
Wolves stay away from people as much as they can, unless they are hungry. We always have young (this years pups) hang around in late august. They have been kicked out and haven’t packed up yet and look for easy pickins around people; cats, snowshoes, small loose dogs ect. I actually like seeing them as they don’t fear people yet. Have had them walk right up our lane and look at our dogteam, who would kill them quick if they could break chains. My son calls them in with quealer at school bus stop. They are nice to see for a couple weeks but soon gone.
Wolves will come in and kill dogs when they can. Every wolf kills 6 moose/year for every moose killed by a hunter and we have 20-30 thou wolves up here in ak.
WE have grizz & blk bear but most grizz stay up above treeline, come down now and then. Grizz take 85% moose calf production every june, moose are hurtin bad, almosr extinct in many areas. wolves get them in deep snow, grizz get the calves come spring. You don’t want grizz where you live, elk pops will quickly drop to 10% of what they were and stagnate, balance of nature thing.
They have started ariel wolf control but its not really all that effective, bounties work better; many areas are so thick, wolves stay in brush. You can’t shoot thru trees with 12 guage. We now can bait grizz in with fish, dripping buckets in trees, ect; but people don’t like eating grizz so no motivation. State needs to allow selling of bear parts, problem would solve itself.
I have had wolves follow my dogteam then when they get close, jump off trail and take off away; something about following smell of dogteam. I know people who have had wolves threaten them until they fired off pistol then they all took off.
People here shoot every bear that comes close and second time they show up around house. Blk & grizz alike. Most blk bear run up here too but I have had 2 blk bear sneak in on me (front quarters down) crouched down like a cat sneaking in on rabbit; ears twittlin back and forth like crazy. First time I waved arms and yelled (no gun) and bear took off. Second time I was along a trail and bear stalked me along trail; shot that one. Blk bear stalking people is quite common actually, at least to rural people.
I just go anywhere without my 460 S&W or a rifle. Bear are looked on as dangerous pests and its everyones patriotic duty to shoot every wolf they see, anyway they are worth 3-4 hundred to tourists. You hear them alot in winter, see alot of tracks, but actually only see wolves maybe once in awhile. Only time I have seen lots of wolves is during caribou migration, cause some packs follow them.
Reality and liberals just don't get along very well.
Hopefully this is true :
they find comfort and closure in this act.
Small family ranchers with small herds can not withstand loses to their life stock.
They need that extra cow to help pay the mortgage and property taxes .
I never camp without a firearm.
Period.
Then again, I never drive anywhere without a firearm.
Period.
That's right. I've seen the wolves watch experts do a survey looking for the presence of wolves of areas in NW Ontario. The experts concluded there were none in the area. After they were done, I pointed out to them where they had urinated on their former campsites, and where they had marked all of the spots they otherwise had been. LOL.
Good luck on the trapping!
That’s actually a pretty obvious thing if you think it through. Grizzlies are considered in some places to be endangered, but not here. Since there aren’t any. The “last grizzly” was killed in 1979.
I’ve heard several stories on the last one, but allegedly the guy that did it, hunted it down and killed it, then claimed he shot it with an arrow from a bow. I haven’t been able to verify the facts in the story at this time. The web site I will give you at the end of this note will tell you what they believe.
Anyway, to the point, grizzlies aren’t supposed to be here, but if they are, and they come into conflict with humans, the bear will lose every time.
If there is a tacit denial that the bears still live here, then there isn’t a reason to “protect it” (which in my opinion is a GOOD thing). This keeps our forests and ranges OPEN for human use. IF for some reason the bear is suddenly found, discovered, or kills someone and it’s proven it’s a grizzly bear, then many wilderness areas will suddenly become “protected territory” in this state.
So, I think this is merely a tactic denial on the part of Fish and Wildlife folks.
I had a good hour conversation with the wildlife biologist responsible for the area where I spotted the bear. He said that basically I had “identified” a grizzly, but he was putting it down in the books as “a very large, male black bear”. No reason, that’s what he said he was doing. I didn’t ask him to elaborate any further on the subject, as I was pressed for time, and so was he at that point.
I will point you to this web site though....I found it in searching for some other information, but it covers the a part of the area I was located in when I saw my bear.
http://www.coloradowilderness.com/wildpages/sanjuan.html
Just for a comparison... I was at 10,500 feet, in the Sangre De Cristo Mountains, about 15 miles from Westcliff Colorado, high up in a basin formed by several peaks. There are several lakes up there, and the road is barely maintained, rocky as hell and requires a four wheel drive, with a high clearance to make it up to the top. I drive an unmodified 2000 Jeep Cherokee, and run the risk of doing undercarriage damage on occasion.
I’ve visited that area multiple times over the past few years, fished there, and stalked game (not for hunting just for pictures). It is high altitude wilderness. I’ve seen several different black bears, packs of coyotes up there, many types of birds, mule and whitetail deer. I have found mountain lion tracks up there, but have never seen one.
The tracks I saw were definitely NOT black bear tracks. They were too big, the claws were too far from the pads and the size was simply too big to have been the black bear we’d seen earlier (he wasn’t much more than a 100 lbs). The bear I saw stood four feet high at the shoulders (compared to the tree branches by the trees he was next too), he had a hump, and when we made noises, he didn’t scamper off. He stood and looked at us for a bit longer before he decided to wander away.
Black bears RUN usually.
Me either, Badeye. I carry multiple weapons when I go into the wilderness. I’ve had people get upset with me for “hunting”, because I’m carrying a rifle but I’m not hunting. They can kiss my rump. The .30-30 goes with me into the bush. Period. And a side arm as back up.
(I COULD start carrying around the AR-15 with a few magazines and let’s see what they say then.... /snicker)
Thanks for the ping. I was just having a discussion last night with someone about there ‘never being a confirmed killing of a human by a wolf’.
I’ll have to forward this.
India Fighting Plague Of Man-Eating Wolves
Since the first killing five months ago, 33 children have been carried off and killed by wolves, according to police figures, and 20 others have been seriously mauled...
Matters are still far from the disaster of 1878, when British officials in this area recorded 624 human killings by wolves. But fear is pervasive. Men stay awake all night, keeping vigil with antique rifles and staves. Mothers keep children from the fields, and infants are kept inside all day.
http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/Wolves_South_Asia_man_eating.htm
I read an article somewhere a couple months ago where several hungry wolves caught a sow black bear coming out of winter hibernation, as she exited her winter den she encountered the wolves and jumped up into a pine tree, but didn’t make it very high. Several wolves bit into her hind legs and pulled her back down. Parts of her were scattered about. Deep claw marks about 8 inches long, where she was pulled down were very evident on the tree.
I do not know the specifics you saw, but a bear may be able to defend itself against a single wolf, however packs may be successful predators.
so what was the “shorts” part about?
An expert, who prepared a report for the coroner’s office, said it was more likely a bear killed Carnegie.
How comforting.
Me either, Badeye. I carry multiple weapons when I go into the wilderness. I’ve had people get upset with me for “hunting”, because I’m carrying a rifle but I’m not hunting. They can kiss my rump. The .30-30 goes with me into the bush. Period. And a side arm as back up.
(I COULD start carrying around the AR-15 with a few magazines and let’s see what they say then.... /snicker)
Funny thing since yesterday. Saw a report that the black bear is making a big come back here in Southern Ohio. 116 confirmed sightings in the last year. Video and pictures of one feeding off of garbage about 20 miles from where I live.
I’m much more concerned with bi peds than bears.
Yeah, like I was saying though, when Bear Meets Human and there is conflict, the bear loses.
Don’t get me wrong here, I think bears have a ‘right’ to live too, but not at the expense of human beings. We do encroach on their habitat, so we have to expect to have occasional conflict.
But being a hunter and being a woodsy sort of fella, I think that conservation is best. That is, let animals live where they live and people visit them. Not be seen, heard or leave anything other than foot prints (if you have to).
On the other hand, humans need to be, and ARE, responsible for their own actions. Thus, keeping garbage OUT of reach of animals certainly will help with such a situation.
As for wolves being “reintroduced” to areas where they used to live, well... I’m a little torn on that one. I think it is cool. At the same time, there’s honestly only room on this planet for one full-time predator. Us. Eventually, we’re going to come into conflict with wolves again.
As to the “facts” about “confirmed” wolf attacks, I’d say that’s a whole load of nonsense. Wolfs HAVE attacked human beings in the past, and certainly they did so on a regular basis when humans were much more privative.
I’m certain it will happen again if wolf packs get large, and are no longer scared of humans (this comes when humans leave their garbage around, and feed animals).
‘As for wolves being “reintroduced” to areas where they used to live, well... I’m a little torn on that one. I think it is cool. At the same time, there’s honestly only room on this planet for one full-time predator. Us. Eventually, we’re going to come into conflict with wolves again.’
Pretty much the same view here. We’re dealing with a huge jump in the coyote population in Southern Ohio, more black bears are appearing, and we have a growing problem with hybrid wolves released less than a year ago (12 - 14 mating pairs released within ten miles of my home) by a dumbass upset with his wife asking for a divorce (unbelieveable true story).
So I keep a close watch on our dogs - behind our split rail fence with ‘dog wire’ these days. And I ALWAYS have a firearm at the ready.
I meant it as an expression meaning that he wasn’t prepared as well as he should have been. If he had been carrying a shotgun or even a handgun he would have had a better chance of survival.
Gosh, I’d love to send you my dear little black-and-white Karelian Bear Dog. The breeder assured me he’d know exactly what to do and not run around stirring up bear trouble and bringing it back with him (main reason for not taking most dogs into bush). I’ve followed their usage over the years out West with problem bears, an option midway between relocating or shooting them.
Course’ my little pooch would probably try to introduce himself to the wolves...
So where exactly to you live in the Great White North? What are the main online local news sources?
And has anyone from Barrow given an authoritative review of “30 Days of Night?”
“As for wolves being “reintroduced” to areas where they used to live, well... I’m a little torn on that one. I think it is cool. “
Being a resident of rural Oregon I don’t think it is quite as cool and most of the folks out here agree with me.
If the big city folks like the wolves so much, let them reintroduce them in their city parks.
We live along upper yukon, 4 miles from canadian border.
Wolves take any loose dogs and often eat sled dogs on chains. We have plott hounds for house dogs and watch dogs. One dog won’t deter a bear, 3 barking dogs will. People here just shoot bear that come around a second time.
Actually, we have slow dial up but look at pretty much same web sites everyone else. More concerned with weather and caribou migration than the world news I guess.
It’s one of the great anthropological mysteries as I understand it. Why so many of the the world’s big carnivores usually prefer to leave us puny humans be. Really only the Lions, Leopards and Tigers have been known to take up people-eating and that only occasionally. Pumas, Jaguars, Bears, etc. outright predation is extremely rare.
I used to read about man-eaters, ivory hunters and such when I was a kid. Author and adventure editor Peter Hathaway Capstick once conjectured that the big toothy critters can’t stand our smell.
I’ve read enough to know that the arguments over Moose, Caribou, Salmon and Wolf populations are eternal bones of contention in the never-ending Subsistence Wars of bush Alaska. I gather the revelations about the scale of Grizzly/Moose Calf predation are a relatively recent discovery and that Moose populations especially seem to work on a boom-and-bust cycle over the decades of Alaska’s brief recorded history.
Course, depending on one’s perspective it would seem that wolves went from being slavering jawed killers to cute ‘n cuddly “charismatic megafauna” almost overnight (sometime after I stopped reading “Ranger Rick Magazine” apparently).
Black bear are multiplying very quickly in Colorado now. ...four overlapping bear ranges in one place here early last month. They run away or sneak around, when they’re not eating. ...no false charges, yet. They’re very stubborn while eating. We see less than one wolf per year, so far, and only when driving. But we hear them at night once in a while. The blacktail deer are multiplying like flies, so wolves probably also will. The lions puma, mountain lions) kill an elk, leaving feet and bones, every time the elk come through. But the lions follow the elk and don’t stay here (no more tracks or other sign after elk leave).
This is on the Rockies in Central Colorado.
Wolves have attacked people in Canada in the recent past. In a Park, a wolf entered a tent, grabbed a child by the face, and dragged him out of the tent.
Fortunately, the parents awakened and drove the wolf away from his dinner.
“When gunpowder speaks, beasts listen” - the lesson of history.
“Why do you think that the DOW does not want to admit that there are grizzly bears in Colorado ?”
Because they are suffering “Boulder Dementia Syndrome”?
PS My friend’s daughter described Boulder as “a bubble of Liberalism, surrounded by reality”. Not bad for a freshman at UC Boulder.
When wolves scent mark human sites, it is safe to say that wolf behavior needs modification.
Bad predator behavior is usually a result of a diet deficient in heavy metals.
An injection of lead cures bad predator behavior, regardless of species.
You better kill with the first shot!
Cuz you’re not getting back on target with the recoil from that light weight/high power combo.
I’ve fired it and the Smith equivalent and it’ll rip your finger off if you don’t have 10” wrists and forearms to match.
“If the big city folks like the wolves so much, let them reintroduce them in their city parks.”
Exactly!
Let the residents of the Big Sh*tty introduce a pack into Central park. Joggers would record record times, the mugger population would soon be “directly reduced”, cops would spend LOTS more time at the range, - yup, many are the indirect benefits of the “urban wolf pack”.
A bear broke into a condo in Aspen. The woman awoke, entered the kitchen, and was slapped in the face by the bear.
BAD BEAR!!
Colorado seems to be suffering from widespread “Boulder Dementia Syndrome” - their game department is busy “relocating” bears instead of allowing the armed Colorado citizen to solve the problem in the historically proven manner developed throughout America.
PS While Colorado does have an open carry law, in many parks (that means hunting areas, predator home range, etc) the “Open Space Rangers” banned open carry.
The nice “Open Space Ranger” thus exposes the public to the predatory behavior of bear, wolves, and cougar. The “Open Space Ranger” does so by simply posting a NO GUNS sign and Colorado residents thus are stripped of their Unalienable Right to self protection.
“Open Space Ranger” does, however, post another sign suggesting that if attacked, “Fight back, with your bare hands, if necessary.”
Bare hands are necessary - ‘cause “Open Space Ranger” disarmed you!
BAD “Open Space Ranger”! ! !
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