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Gore's nightmare: Europe turns to U.S. coal
Reportonbusiness.com ^ | 11/06/07 | CHRISTOPHER MARTIN

Posted on 11/06/2007 10:29:51 AM PST by Abathar

Now that the price of coal is at a historic low relative to oil, there's no stopping consumers and producers alike from embracing Al Gore's nightmare.

A ton of U.S. coal is so cheap at about $47 (U.S.) that European utilities will pay $50 to ship it across the Atlantic, according to Galbraith's Ltd., a 263-year-old London shipbroker. While oil and coal cost the same as recently as 1998, West Texas Intermediate crude is now five times more expensive after climbing to more than $90 a barrel.

Peabody Energy Corp., Consol Energy Inc. and Arch Coal Inc., the three biggest U.S. coal companies, forecast the largest increase in exports in 20 years, degrading the call for a moratorium on coal plants by former U.S. vice-president and this year's Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore. Coal use worldwide has grown 27 per cent since 2002, three times faster than crude, said BP PLC. U.S. East Coast coal has risen 71 per cent, while oil tripled on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

"Coal is by far the cheapest fuel because there's no price on how much damage it causes," said John Holdren, a Harvard University professor of environmental science and director of the Woods Hole Research Center in Falmouth, Mass. "Unless you get policies to put a price on carbon dioxide and other emissions, no other plants can compete."

U.S. coal prices are equal to $1.98 for each million British thermal units of energy, compared with $12.51 for fuel oil and $6.91 for natural gas, data compiled by Bloomberg show. A million British thermal units is the equivalent of eight U.S. gallons (30.3 litres) of gasoline.

"There is a huge advantage with coal, and this will continue indefinitely," said Gianfilippo Mancini, the head of fuel purchasing for Enel SpA, Italy's largest power company, which is spending €4-billion ($5.8-billion U.S.) to convert oil-fed plants to run on coal.

Mr. Gore, 59, said five months ago the U.S. should adopt a "complete moratorium" on new coal-fed power plants unless all of the carbon dioxide from them can be buried underground. Government efforts to subsidize coal as an alternative to oil would be a "serious mistake," he said in a June 1 interview on Conversations with Judy Woodruff on Bloomberg Television.

U.S. coal exports to Europe for the first nine months of this year were 11.4 million tons, up 15 per cent from the same period in 2006, according to the U.S. Energy Department. Coal generates 41 per cent of the world's man-made carbon dioxide emissions, blamed for the warming of the Earth's climate, Gulf of Mexico hurricanes and rising sea levels.

The increased demand for coal boosted Peabody, Arch and Consol 36 per cent from Aug. 3 to Nov. 2 in New York trading, according to Bloomberg's U.S. coal index. Among Wall Street analysts, 76 per cent recommend buying shares of Peabody and 62 per cent recommend Consol, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

More than 1,000 coal-fed power plants will be built in the next five years, mostly in China and India, according to the U.S. Department of Energy. China, the world's biggest coal producer, became a net importer for the first time this year, taking supplies from Indonesia, Australia and South Africa and reducing the amount available for Europe.

"If those 1,000 plants get built without any controls on carbon emissions, we will careen into unmanageable changes in our climate," the 63-year-old Prof. Holdren said in an interview. "We need to motivate carbon capture and storage through policy. We will still be using coal, but in much smarter ways. It doesn't have to be an economy buster."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: coal; energy; globalwarming; gore; pee
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Can't wait to hear him talk about this. Wonder how he can reach around and pull all those knives out of his back...
1 posted on 11/06/2007 10:29:52 AM PST by Abathar
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To: Abathar

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t we (the USA) have enough coal to last until the end of time...and beyond?


2 posted on 11/06/2007 10:32:28 AM PST by ECM (Government is a make-work program for lawyers.)
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To: Abathar
"We need to motivate carbon capture and storage through policy

Sitting at a desk won't solve anything. Policy is horsefeathers.

3 posted on 11/06/2007 10:33:26 AM PST by x_plus_one (The entire Islamic moral universe devolves solely from the life and teachings of Muhammad.)
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To: Abathar

Why are we giving it away to them? Let’s slap a “carbon export tax” on it :-)


4 posted on 11/06/2007 10:34:24 AM PST by WackySam
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To: Abathar

We’ll LITERALLY be carrying Coals to Newcastle!.............


5 posted on 11/06/2007 10:35:20 AM PST by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: Abathar

But AlGore, think of the millions selling carbon offsets you’ll make!!!!


6 posted on 11/06/2007 10:35:44 AM PST by Pistolshot ("All you anti-Freds remind me of Wile E. Coyote trying to fool the sheepdog." - Josh Painter)
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To: Abathar

Silly Brit, we can’t mine coal in America. It’s forbidden.


7 posted on 11/06/2007 10:35:49 AM PST by Tenacious 1 (The earth is getting Warmer! It ain't my fault. Let's boycott Mother Nature!)
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To: Abathar

This will cause the coal price to begin tracking the price of oil. Bye Al!


8 posted on 11/06/2007 10:36:54 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: WackySam

I assume that is the market price. What is with the “slap a tax on it”? Taxes never solve anything.


9 posted on 11/06/2007 10:37:10 AM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: ECM

Yes, it can work in our cars:

http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Debate_Heats_Up_In_US_Over_Coal_Fuel_For_Cars_999.html


10 posted on 11/06/2007 10:38:52 AM PST by rightinthemiddle (Without the Media, the Left and Islamofacists are Nothing.)
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To: ECM

We have the largest known reserves of coal. Much of it does have a high sulfur content (and coincidentally, that’s the stuff with the highest energy yield).

I wonder where the economic break-even is for hydrogenation (like the Germans used) compared with the price of barrel of oil.

But hey, we got it. Let’s use it. Screw Gore. When he gives up his private jet and walks to work (which would be good for his gut) I’ll walk to work too. Hypocrite.


11 posted on 11/06/2007 10:39:57 AM PST by henkster (The dems have reserved your place on the collective farm.)
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To: Abathar
U.S. coal prices are equal to $1.98 for each million British thermal units of energy, compared with $12.51 for fuel oil and $6.91 for natural gas, data compiled by Bloomberg show. A million British thermal units is the equivalent of eight U.S. gallons (30.3 litres) of gasoline.

That does it, at the equivalent of $0.25/gallon I'm converting my car to coal. If you call "shotgun" you better bring a shovel.

More seriously, I wouldn't be surprised that electric cars are now cheaper to run than gasoline, even with all the inefficiencies of making and transmitting electricity.

12 posted on 11/06/2007 10:40:04 AM PST by KarlInOhio (May the heirs of Charles Martel and Jan Sobieski rise up again to defend Europe.)
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To: Abathar

Didn’t Clintoon make a national park or reserve of some kind out of a chunk of Utah or Nevada that was/is a huge coal deposit?? And it was the kind of coal that is in Indonesia, and he did it to help a campaign contributor??


13 posted on 11/06/2007 10:40:26 AM PST by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publici scholae)
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To: Abathar

“...Gulf of Mexico hurricanes and rising sea levels.”

Notice how cleverly the author explains away the ridiculously over-estimated Atlantic hurricane season that’s about to end.

Just watch as the GW freaks dramatize the two CAT 5 hurricanes that hit almost unpopulated parts of Mexico and S.A. this year to where they support the climate change models in a smooth dovetail.


14 posted on 11/06/2007 10:41:03 AM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Abathar
They're serious about coal in Germany. Whole towns have been relocated to allow for mining. They use these.
15 posted on 11/06/2007 10:41:36 AM PST by Disambiguator (Political Correctness is criminal insanity writ large.)
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To: Abathar

At near $100 a barrel, I’d suspect that many alternatives to oil will jump out of the weeds soon - I hope. Coal is a good one. We should be making diesel fuel and burning it in the new clean diesel engines.

Makes a lot more sense than making fuel out of food.


16 posted on 11/06/2007 10:45:01 AM PST by IamConservative (Only two have offered to die for a stranger; Jesus Christ and the American Soldier)
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To: ECM
Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t we (the USA) have enough coal to last until the end of time...and beyond?

Why yes, we have infinite coal.

17 posted on 11/06/2007 10:45:02 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Al Gore, the Jessie Jackson of weather.)
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To: Disambiguator

I saw that on Modern Marvels on THC. An awesome piece of machinery. This is the “disassembled” version when in transit. It has a few more attachments once it is at work.

45,500 tons; equivalent to an Iowa class battleship.


18 posted on 11/06/2007 10:45:46 AM PST by henkster (The dems have reserved your place on the collective farm.)
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To: KarlInOhio
I live right down the road from a coal burning power plant. They own the mine and dig it up, rail it down to the plant and burn it, very efficient. I wonder how much it would cost to put in a coal fired furnace and have them drop off a couple of cars of coal for me. Build a coal chute into the basement like they did 60 years ago and send my kids down to stoke it up every morning. Probably get all your hot water from it too. Worth thinking about with energy costs going up so much lately, and a lot less work than firewood is.
19 posted on 11/06/2007 10:46:02 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: TruthConquers
Didn’t Clintoon make a national park or reserve of some kind out of a chunk of Utah or Nevada that was/is a huge coal deposit?? And it was the kind of coal that is in Indonesia, and he did it to help a campaign contributor??

You're talking about the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument in Utah which was shut down to financially aid the Raidy Family.

20 posted on 11/06/2007 10:46:43 AM PST by KarlInOhio (May the heirs of Charles Martel and Jan Sobieski rise up again to defend Europe.)
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To: xcamel

ping


21 posted on 11/06/2007 10:49:00 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: TruthConquers
Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument.
22 posted on 11/06/2007 10:49:22 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: ECM

Pretty much. Pennsylvania anthracite reserves alone are supposed to last for 200 years at present rates of consumption.


23 posted on 11/06/2007 10:49:42 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Red sky at night, earth cooling fright. Red in the morning, it's global warming.)
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To: Abathar

Isn’t it fun when real world economics turns the table on these blowhards that haven’t a clue what is really going on? If they were really worried about CO2 why don’t the recomend how to exterminate every living creature that exhales CO2?


24 posted on 11/06/2007 10:54:12 AM PST by Sunshine Sister
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To: Disambiguator
Ever see the pictures where they accidentally scoped up a bulldozer?

Monster Machine Picks up Bulldozer
http://nahetsblog.wordpress.com/2007/07/19/the-heaviest-of-heavy-machinery/

25 posted on 11/06/2007 10:54:57 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Abathar

I live in coal country. Big black anthracite hills all around. Most folks here burn coal. Typical expense is $300 for the whole winter. Fuel oil, probably around $2000.


26 posted on 11/06/2007 10:55:04 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Call me a pro-life zealot with a 1-track mind.)
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To: DuncanWaring; KarlInOhio

Thank YOU!!!!


27 posted on 11/06/2007 10:56:34 AM PST by TruthConquers (Delendae sunt publici scholae)
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To: TruthConquers

Your memory is right on! To bad it’s “old news” and will never be reported on ever again!


28 posted on 11/06/2007 10:56:55 AM PST by Sunshine Sister
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To: prairiebreeze

thread marker


29 posted on 11/06/2007 10:58:04 AM PST by prairiebreeze (Fred '08 Because our troops DESERVE BETTER than Mrs. Bill Clinton.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

By the way, here in central PA, most of the coal companies I see (and that’s a LOT of them) are not up and running, or if they are, they’re doing so little you can hardly tell they’re working at all. Govt regulation has killed business.


30 posted on 11/06/2007 10:58:21 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Call me a pro-life zealot with a 1-track mind.)
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To: DuncanWaring
That's some beautiful country.

No wonder Clinton came in third behind Perot in that election.

31 posted on 11/06/2007 10:58:27 AM PST by ErnBatavia (...forward this to your 10 very best friends....)
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To: Abathar

Just think, if it weren’t for all the tree hugging hippies, and wet-pants nancy-boys, we’d have more nuclear power, and refineries. The price of energy would be down where it should be. Don’t forget the nimby folk who have stopped wind farms for power generation.

Ruefully


32 posted on 11/06/2007 11:03:36 AM PST by petro45acp (NO good endeavor survives an excess of "adult supervision" (read bureaucracy)!)
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To: Abathar
... Build a coal chute into the basement like they did 60 years ago and send my kids down to stoke it up every morning. Probably get all your hot water from it too.

We had a coal furnace when I was a kid, and Yes, the hot water was part of the deal. A coil and water storage tank was near the furnace. Convection circulated the water through the tank. There was even a crude thermostat arrangement that switched a damper control, called an "Iron Fireman" that had a hokey lable of a 50's era robot witha shovel. Coal ads on early TV were similar to current gasoline ads, without extravagant claims.

"When you see coal with red dots bright, that's famous Reading anthracite"...a competitor to Blue Coal, another brand.

The coal truck would come once in a while, a chute would be placed in the cellar window, and a ton would slide into the coalbin.

I do not recall that it was that much work, but if people went to bed early, mornings could be a bit cool till someone went downstairs and shovelled.

All in all it was not bad.

33 posted on 11/06/2007 11:04:53 AM PST by Gorzaloon (Food imported from China = "Cesspool + Flavor-Straw")
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To: Abathar

“Gore’s nightmare: Europe turns to U.S. coal “

Well, I hope plenty of Democratic voters are confused and stay home
when they see that Gore and HILLARY! disagree on this topic.


34 posted on 11/06/2007 11:06:07 AM PST by VOA
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To: Abathar

Export that coal and we’ll be the Saudi of coal.

Looks like people better stop shorting the dollar.


35 posted on 11/06/2007 11:06:33 AM PST by NeoCaveman (Every time you’re somewhere, that means you’re not somewhere else, Fred D Thompson 44)
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To: TruthConquers
You are correct - one more thing we can charge to Clinton's legacy.

Carolyn

36 posted on 11/06/2007 11:06:58 AM PST by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: ECM

Not sure about the end of time. Several states, independently, do have more coal than the Saudis have oil. Our big solution is government subsidized ethanol, which I don’t believe is viable for a number of reasons. Ethanol will likely only serve to give us higher inflation as products effected by corn prices start to climb. Many products have already started a steady climb and there are more to come.

Higher inflation means a higher probability of President PantSuit. Does anyone remember ManBearPigs, “everything that should be down is up, and everything that should be up is down”, speech? It will be the “economy stupid” all over again, a different Clinton, one more time with feeling. We need to go diesel from coal and rid ourselves of the oil ticks once and for all.

The new technology for cleaner coal is there and is being used in many instances. The global warming cabal can pound sand. We need to be energy independent and diesel from coal can do that. This will not only be a big positive for the economy but also for our national security and perhaps that of the world. Instead of sending our resources to other nations, dirt cheap, we need to be using our resources to free us from foreign oil. In the interim, the alternative energy resources, hydrogen, solar, nuclear etc. can be worked out.

I was thinking, if America was energy independent, it would go a long way in solving a great deal of our problems. We have an answer. All we need now is for the courage and leadership to stand up against the anthropogenic global warming hoax. A diesel from coal facility is due to go online in my state in the near future, owned by Peabody, I believe, who was mentioned in the article.


37 posted on 11/06/2007 11:07:04 AM PST by WildcatClan (DUNCAN HUNTER- The only choice for true conservatives)
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To: Abathar; tx_eggman

um.. but... um... if they dig up OUR carbon, but burn it over there, is that our credit or theirs?


38 posted on 11/06/2007 11:09:40 AM PST by SpinnerWebb (Islam ... If you can't join them, beat them.)
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To: Sunshine Sister

Now wait just a minute. I ONLY exhale 2.2 lbs of CO2 per day, multiply that by the billions of people and it clear at least 1/2 half need to be killed immediately. As long as I am not in that half, I am down with it. Does the Hildabeast, Saint Al, Breck Boy, or any other moonbat DIMWIT think for a moment that China or India will stop building coal plants? They will be laughing as our economy goes into the tank as their competitive advantage in labor costs gets extended to energy costs as well. These idiots think we live in a world apart from everyone else. Will the Saudi’s pump less oil? Will Venezuela pump less oil. The market will decide, not politicians.


39 posted on 11/06/2007 11:10:08 AM PST by milwguy
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To: Abathar
"Coal is by far the cheapest fuel because there's no price on how much damage it causes," said a Harvard University professor of environmental science and director of the Woods Hole Research Center in Falmouth, Mass.

*Squeeeeeeeeal*

The Working Class, (Whoever they are, and whatever "Work" may be) may not have to PAY ENOUGH for energy!!!

...While *I*, at Harvard, will resume coasting though my life and career, a protected, anointed species.

40 posted on 11/06/2007 11:10:34 AM PST by Gorzaloon (Food imported from China = "Cesspool + Flavor-Straw")
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To: Disambiguator

“Whole towns have been relocated to allow for mining.”

See these two recent threads:

Medieval Church Moves to New Home
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1916406/posts

700-year-old church in Germany moves
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1918968/posts


41 posted on 11/06/2007 11:13:06 AM PST by PAR35
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To: ECM

400 years supply is the estimate. About 100 years for the oil shale at current US use rates — More oil in the shale than most of the world’s reserves combined.

Maybe we will switch to nuclear power by then, the current liberals will be dead, so those obstacles to modern society won’t exist.


42 posted on 11/06/2007 11:15:51 AM PST by Tarpon
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To: Abathar

When you come to grips with the fact that man-made, carbon-induced global warming is total fiction, coal makes more sense than anything else. And the U.S. is the Saudi Arabia of coal.


43 posted on 11/06/2007 11:18:55 AM PST by montag813
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To: Abathar
Unless you get policies to put a price on carbon dioxide and other emissions, no other plants can compete."

44 posted on 11/06/2007 11:21:10 AM PST by steel_resolve (Think pitch forks.)
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To: Tenacious 1
we can’t mine coal in America. It’s forbidden

Doesn't anyone remember that B Klintoon made the only area for low sulfer coal off limits & we then had to get it abroad from the only source available. That source, The Liggett Group, were HUGE donors to the Klintoon machine.

45 posted on 11/06/2007 11:22:36 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: TruthConquers
Didn’t Clintoon make a national park or reserve of some kind out of a chunk of Utah or Nevada that was/is a huge coal deposit?? And it was the kind of coal that is in Indonesia, and he did it to help a campaign contributor??

See post 45

46 posted on 11/06/2007 11:23:32 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: ECM

The answer is a big ol “Hell Yeah” on that one...

If we built combined cycle Nuclear power/Coal to Liquids power plants, we could run our electrical devices and fuel our vehicles with resources that are already here in North America.


47 posted on 11/06/2007 11:25:17 AM PST by MD_Willington_1976
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To: montag813

Absolutely. That’s all we need is leadership with the courage to tell GW shysters to take a hike. I think Kentucky and maybe West Virginia alone, are the Saudi Arabia of coal. That really shines a light on what a tremendous resource we have and are not utilizing as readily as we should.


48 posted on 11/06/2007 11:25:37 AM PST by WildcatClan (DUNCAN HUNTER- The only choice for true conservatives)
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To: Disambiguator

Want.


49 posted on 11/06/2007 11:26:02 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Abathar

Here in San Francisco CCTV (Central Chinese Television out of Bejing) is available. (Any country that wants to market in the US should study it.)

Whenever they place a camera outdoors in a large city, the air pollution almost always prevents seeing blue sky. It is perpetually gray there. I’ve been told by visitors that it is a rare day that you can see across town in Beijing.

They have 600,000,000 peasants who all want washing machines, heat in the winter, cars, hair dryers, et cetera. If the Chinese government wants to exist, it has no choice but to build coal power plants as quickly as it can. Their goal is one new one a week (possibly achieving only one a month).

They don’t have the luxury of caring what Al Gore wants us to believe about greenhouse gases and global warming.


50 posted on 11/06/2007 11:27:00 AM PST by Psychic Dice (ArtOfPsychicDice.com)
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