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Lots of logs, not enough loggers
Vail Daily ^ | February 1, 2005 | Cliff Thompson

Posted on 11/07/2007 1:21:09 PM PST by george76

When the U.S. Forest Service received no bids on two small timber sales in Eagle County earlier this year, the agency's local rangers encountered what is becoming a problem throughout the intermountain West.

The federal agency got a lesson in market economics and the three-way tug of war over lumber in national forests. There were no bidders for the timber "salvage" sales designed to remove trees killed by infesting pine beetles. The Forest Service also wants to sell the dead trees so they won't add extra fuel to wildfires.

The glut of dead trees is occurring at a time when economics, the few Forest Service timber sales and natural trends have left few loggers and lumber mills.

The amount of dead trees available for loggers and mills is at an all-time high and growing as the pine beetle epidemic spreads. The ability to extract them remains a bottleneck.

But in the three-part dance of the Forest Service, loggers and lumber mills...a mixture of all three combined with environmental constraints...

Chris Meyers' Intermountain Resources in Montrose is one of the few mills left in the state...

Part of the problem is the Forest Service hasn't sold enough logs in recent years to support the timber industry...

"It's has caused a shrinking of the industry,"

The closest lumber mill is the one in Montrose, more than 150 miles away and the next nearest is in Price, Utah, approximately 300 miles distant.

"Over the last two decades local mills have been eliminated," ...

"In Colorado there's only one big mill," said timber specialist Bob Garcia...

"The (cost of) the haul there makes some sales uneconomical," ...

But the situation is not isolated to Eagle County or even just to Colorado...

(Excerpt) Read more at vaildaily.com ...


TOPICS: Government; US: Arizona; US: California; US: Colorado; US: Oregon; US: Utah; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: colorado; forestservice; globalwarming; landuse; loggers; logging; lumber; lumbermills; mills; pinebeetles; timber; timbersales; usfs; vail; wildfires; wildlandfires
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I thought that this was already posted, but can not find it.

Apologizes in advance if this is a repeat.

I did several searches.

1 posted on 11/07/2007 1:21:09 PM PST by george76
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To: george76

2 posted on 11/07/2007 1:25:16 PM PST by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: george76

Has anyone seen John Gault?


3 posted on 11/07/2007 1:27:10 PM PST by Dan(9698)
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To: george76
BARBER:
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.
I sleep all night and I work all day.

 

MOUNTIES:
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
BARBER:
I cut down trees. I eat my lunch.
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tea.
MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He eats his lunch.
He goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he goes shoppin'
And has buttered scones for tea.
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

 

BARBER:
I cut down trees. I skip and jump.
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars.
MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He skips and jumps.
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around in bars?!
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
BARBER:
I cut down trees. I wear high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie,
Just like my dear Papa.
MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra?!
[talking]
What's this? Wants to be a girlie?! Oh, My!
And I thought you were so rugged! Poofter!
[singing]
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.
He's a lumberjack, and he's okaaaaay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

4 posted on 11/07/2007 1:28:03 PM PST by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: Dan(9698)

Nope. (shrug)


5 posted on 11/07/2007 1:28:28 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: george76

Thanks, interesting article, and I haven’t seen it.

Yes. Cause and effect. Drive the loggers out of business and you shouldn’t be surprised if they’re gone when you need them.

The two most dangerous professions in the world are deep sea fishing and logging. Add political correctness to the equation, and you may not see many loggers in the future.

By the way, dead trees, especially trees that have been dead for a few years, are commonly called widowmakers. You never know when a big chunk may break off the top and land on you, while you’re making the cuts to drop it. I’m not sure I’d want to work in a whole dead forest that the forest service and the greenies have been arguing over for years, while they sit there and get more rotten.


6 posted on 11/07/2007 1:28:52 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: george76
It is actually a fairly written and balanced article even though I start out thinking "This is going to be another illegal alien promotion piece."

What the enviro-wackos have done to our timber industry (includng the closing of mills) is a disgrace. What they have done to fuel forest fires is even worse.

Meanwhile, lumber imports and prices from Canada are at an all-time high.

WIth few exeptions (National Park type properties), the national forests should be privatized to pay off the national debt or turned over to their respective states. There is no logical reason why the Federal Government should own roughly 70% of the land in Idaho and 95% of the land in Alaska.

7 posted on 11/07/2007 1:31:09 PM PST by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: Cicero; Argus; forester

It takes decades to train real professionals for this dangerous, dirty, hard, honest work.

Plus lots of capital for equipment, trucks...

Many small town have been eliminated by decades of eco-rules from the lefties and their political friends.


8 posted on 11/07/2007 1:32:22 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: No Truce With Kings

I wonder if you can even say the word ‘poofter’ in today’s UK without worrying about getting busted for ‘hate speech’ ... {sigh}


9 posted on 11/07/2007 1:33:47 PM PST by bassmaner (Hey commies: I am a white male, and I am guilty of NOTHING! Sell your 'white guilt' elsewhere.)
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To: Vigilanteman; SunkenCiv; Carry_Okie; tubebender

Some counties are 95 to 99 percent federal lands.

With the old Clinton ‘ no new roads ‘ agenda...many historical existing roads have been closed.


10 posted on 11/07/2007 1:35:03 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: GOPPachyderm
The Forest Service over the years has done everything possible to make it impossible to cut trees. They have not had sales, they have closed off forests, closed logging roads, they have done every thing in their power to bring on this problem. Go go Kalispell Montana, and look at the number of logging trucks sitting idle, in the lots. Let the University of Forestry, grads who implemented this program, let them get out their Buck Knives, and go start cutting.
11 posted on 11/07/2007 1:35:35 PM PST by BooBoo1000 (Some times I wake up grumpy, other times I let her sleep/)
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To: george76

Fires will eventually ease the problem of these dead forests. Mother nature will handle it but I wouldn’t want to be around when it happens.


12 posted on 11/07/2007 1:36:31 PM PST by saganite
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To: saganite

Several issues : Healthy forests generally and second, protecting one’s home and business from the wild fires.

There is also water poluttion later that kills fish, frogs, etc. that need oxygen to breathe...kills the organism in the soil by the high intense heat...and...


13 posted on 11/07/2007 1:40:16 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Dan(9698)

No, but his fingerprints are all over the place.


14 posted on 11/07/2007 1:42:31 PM PST by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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To: george76

None of that will matter. Nature will have it’s way and we’ve made sure, with our forestry policies, that it won’t be pretty.


15 posted on 11/07/2007 1:42:52 PM PST by saganite
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To: bassmaner

Had to look that term up. Wish I hadn’t.


16 posted on 11/07/2007 1:44:56 PM PST by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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To: SierraWasp

Ping


17 posted on 11/07/2007 1:46:37 PM PST by TenthAmendmentChampion (Global warming is to Revelations as the theory of evolution is to Genesis.)
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To: george76
Several issues : Healthy forests generally and second, protecting one’s home and business from the wild fires.

Not to mention increased lumber prices because it will all be imported.

18 posted on 11/07/2007 1:46:48 PM PST by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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To: Vigilanteman

They own 87% of the land in Arizona too. Guess how much they own in Texas? Not much; I’d bet it’s less than 5%.


19 posted on 11/07/2007 1:48:27 PM PST by TenthAmendmentChampion (Global warming is to Revelations as the theory of evolution is to Genesis.)
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To: bassmaner

“I wonder if you can even say the word ‘poofter’ in today’s UK without worrying about getting busted for ‘hate speech’”

Betcha not. That’s why I am glad I am a Texan.


20 posted on 11/07/2007 1:49:25 PM PST by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: george76
The same preservationism that drove out the forestry industry is the cause of the pine beetle infestation. Now that global warming is blamed for everything, the envirowhackos who caused this problem are trying to convince people that global warming is the cause. These forests were too old, and weakened — the infestation was inevitable.

We have a huge problem with pine beetles in BC too. The cause was too vigorous fire suppression — but, global warming is being blamed (with zero evidence to support it).

21 posted on 11/07/2007 1:50:50 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: george76
having grown up in a washington state logging town, I can say there are PLENTY of loggers.

Only they are now desk clerks at the Local Super 8 motel

Thanks, granola heads!

22 posted on 11/07/2007 1:52:00 PM PST by llevrok (Born a ham and never cured.)
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To: Vigilanteman
the national forests should be privatized to pay off the national debt or turned over to their respective states

F#$% that ... just reactivate the Homestead act and give the land back to the citizens.

23 posted on 11/07/2007 2:02:24 PM PST by Centurion2000 (False modesty is as great a sin as false pride.)
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To: george76

Had a local-owned sawmill in my neck of the woods that’s been around longer than my half-century shutdown this summer. Sad to see it not operating. Affected a good number of sawmillers as well as timber haulers. Heard it was Canadian timber driving prices down that led to them closing their operations. I don’t know if that’s a fact though.


24 posted on 11/07/2007 2:05:06 PM PST by OB1kNOb (Support Duncan Hunter for the 2008 GOP presidential nominee. He is THE conservative candidate!!)
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To: george76

“I own a lumber company??? Need some wood??”

</Dubya>


25 posted on 11/07/2007 2:12:27 PM PST by Bush_Democrat (Ex-Dem since 2001 *Folding@Home for the Gipper - Join the FReeper Folders*)
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To: TenthAmendmentChampion; Vigilanteman
Government lands in this country (anything with color) .... this is outrageous.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

26 posted on 11/07/2007 2:14:28 PM PST by Centurion2000 (False modesty is as great a sin as false pride.)
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To: TenthAmendmentChampion

Wow!!! What a magnificent tagline!!! (thanks for da ping)


27 posted on 11/07/2007 2:16:27 PM PST by SierraWasp (If Dems had brains they'd be Repubs. And when they learned to use 'em, they'd be CONSERVATIVES!!!)
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To: george76

Gee the UNION word was never used today.


28 posted on 11/07/2007 2:19:45 PM PST by Domangart (editor and publisher)
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To: Centurion2000; TenthAmendmentChampion

All that government “owned” land makes me want to howl like that dumb wolf on that National Wilderness Institute logo!!! Is this map their creation? If so, are they braggin, or complainin???


29 posted on 11/07/2007 2:21:52 PM PST by SierraWasp (If Dems had brains they'd be Repubs. And when they learned to use 'em, they'd be CONSERVATIVES!!!)
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To: SierraWasp

Wow, thanks SW. Check out the map a few posts up. Sad...


30 posted on 11/07/2007 2:54:47 PM PST by TenthAmendmentChampion (Global warming is to Revelations as the theory of evolution is to Genesis.)
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To: SierraWasp

Oops, never mind, you commented on the map already.


31 posted on 11/07/2007 2:56:44 PM PST by TenthAmendmentChampion (Global warming is to Revelations as the theory of evolution is to Genesis.)
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To: llevrok; Grampa Dave; calcowgirl

Lots of good folks were loggers.

We need them and they want to get back to work.


32 posted on 11/07/2007 4:35:30 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA; jazusamo

After several years / sets of LA fires, this may get some attention.

Fires in the ‘fly over areas’ like Montana, Idaho, Colorado, Utah, Washington...do not get front page breaking news national coverage.


33 posted on 11/07/2007 4:38:27 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: OB1kNOb; crz; HairOfTheDog

With the loonie up and dollar down, Canadian lumber may get more expensive ?


34 posted on 11/07/2007 4:39:47 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Centurion2000; forester; editor-surveyor; marsh2; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp
and don’t you dare ride your dirt bike or 4wd on these lands...
35 posted on 11/07/2007 5:30:57 PM PST by tubebender (My weight is perfect for my height... which varies...)
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To: tubebender; forester; Grampa Dave; george76; dalereed; NormsRevenge; Syncro

I’d like to put hill climbin knobby dirt bike tire prints right on their dumb butts!!! (whilst I’m still young and healthy enough to stand up on the pegs!!!)


36 posted on 11/07/2007 6:34:06 PM PST by SierraWasp (If Dems had brains they'd be Repubs. And when they learned to use 'em, they'd be CONSERVATIVES!!!)
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To: george76

As the second larget timber producing county in California, we had several mills in the 1980s. All the dimensional wood saw mills and the moulding plant have closed. All we have left is two plywood veneer mills that take trees under about 23 inches in diameter.

At a meeting I attended with the US Forest Service Chief, a gentleman from Sierra Pacific pointed out that the region is losing its timber infrastructure:
1. USFS sawlog volume accounts for only 15% of total volume harvested in CA
2. Mills have closed, many mills currently working reduced shifts due to reduction in volume of wood
3. From 06 to 07, there has been a 26% drop in USFS sawlog volume and a 9% drop in non-sawlog volume.
4. The existing infrastructure is at risk and all depends on sawlog volume, not firewood or biomass.
5. There is a disconnect in the USFS in determining what is an economical timber sale.

The Chief said there was a lack of “social license” to harvest trees anymore.


37 posted on 11/07/2007 7:22:57 PM PST by marsh2
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To: george76

environmentalists,, Perfect StormTroopers.. saving dead wood (so it can catch fire and consume forests and wildlife.. oh.. and residents, most of them taxpayers)


38 posted on 11/07/2007 7:46:38 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed ... ICE’s toll-free tip hotline —1-866-DHS-2-ICE ... 9/11 .. Never FoRGeT)
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To: tubebender

Who’s dirt bike should I ride on them if I can’t ride mine?


39 posted on 11/07/2007 7:56:52 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: george76

Standing dead timber isn’t much good for anything but building log houses. It’s too dry, cracked, and twisted for milling.

They should know enough to throw in some good trees to pay the bills if they want any bidders. The trees are growing way faster than we can ever cut them; it’s time to get in gear.


40 posted on 11/07/2007 8:01:59 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: BooBoo1000
The Forest Service over the years has done everything possible to make it impossible to cut trees.

You're just saying that because it's true...

What a bunch of freaking eggheads those government tit-sucks are!

41 posted on 11/07/2007 8:42:11 PM PST by an amused spectator (AGW: If you drag a hundred dollar bill through a research lab, you never know what you'll find)
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To: Vigilanteman

BLM lands are even more extensive than the National Forests. Agreed, the federal govt should turn over all lands except the National Parks and some related National Monuments, etc. to the statesand/or sell off all lands that do not meet a very strict standard for permanent preservation.

It’s ridiculous how vast the BLM lands are and why do the feds still have any role at all with those???

Also, reverse the appalling and stooopid Clintonista decision to create the vast Grand Staircase Escalante Nat’l Monument!!! 1.8 MILLION acres set aside from all useful purposes to satisfy Clintonista political agendas and envirowhackjob idiocy.


42 posted on 11/07/2007 8:55:28 PM PST by Enchante (Democrat terror-fighting motto: "BLEAT - CHEAT - RETREAT - DEFEAT")
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To: marsh2

The forest service motto was ‘land of many uses’ now it is land of no use ?


43 posted on 11/07/2007 9:44:51 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: editor-surveyor

We have millions of acres ready to burn.

For so many reasons, it would be good to get the lumber yards back for the long term.


44 posted on 11/07/2007 9:47:20 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/653287/posts?page=113#113


45 posted on 11/07/2007 10:11:04 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Monday, October 22, 2007. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: george76

The spotted owl in Wa State, was more important than the logging communities. Sounds like about now, there is a great opportunity for some smart business person to get some logging skills, equipment, crew...

See, there are good jobs in America, if you know where to look!


46 posted on 11/07/2007 10:17:02 PM PST by Professional
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To: editor-surveyor

The Klamath NF has a standing inventory of 13.5 billion board feet of timber. It is growing another 654 Million board feet (mmbf) of timber a year. In 1989, the KNF harvested 320 mmbf.; in 2003 – 35 mmbf. Projected annual harvest going forward next year in the Klamath National Forest is somewhere less than 15 mmbf. of timber, which includes salvage and firewood sales. This means a net addition of 639 million board feet a year to contribute to already unhealthy forest conditions.


47 posted on 11/07/2007 10:43:32 PM PST by marsh2
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Evironmentalists don’t have a problem with culling wood to suppress fires per se, they only have a problem with people making money off it.


48 posted on 11/07/2007 10:53:08 PM PST by dsrtsage
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To: Beowulf

~~ AGW™ ping~~


49 posted on 11/08/2007 3:35:13 AM PST by steelyourfaith
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To: tubebender; SierraWasp; george76
and don’t you dare ride your dirt bike or 4wd on these lands...

If you don't own/ride a bicycle or a horse, it is getting damn near impossible to get near a stream, river or lake to fish without very long hikes. More barriers pop up every year and their distances from the water increases.

At the age of 69, I really don't want to hike a mile or more to fish a river, stream of lake that I used to be able drive within a 100 yards or so. These barriers basically eliminates me taking my grand kids in with me to most parks, forests and other so called public places. For their safety, I don't want to be very far away from my vehicle with my firs aid kits or the need to transport them to an ER if they fall and/or injure themselves.

My son, the father of my grandkids is facing this problem now. Both kids like to fish, and the lake where he has been taking them now requires a mile walk in. He has them ride their bikes and he hikes and carries the gear. For Christmas, we will be buying the 6 year old a mountain bike with gears like his sister's and hydration packs for both of them so they can carry water and snacks. Their Dad will carry the fishing poles, gear, tackle, chains and locks for the bikes and other stuff for a couple of hours of fishing or just watching the lake.

I just renewed my yearly Sacramento Park Pass so I won't get a ticket for parking while the bicyclers and horsie people get into the park free. You park your vehicle and walk a mile or more into fish, when you get back your vehicles may have been broken into. A friend had his right front truck window broken into, and the perps stole 4 cans of Coke, he had left on the front floor. Several friends leave their car windows down and doors unlocked.

This past week I discussed this discrimination against those of who drive with a park ranger, a good guy. I asked after 1 October, when the new and higher daily and yearly rates went into effect, if there were less people with vehicles using the park/parks. He said yes and brought up global warming as if lower attendance was a good thing. I asked him how old he was, and he said 40 something. Then, I told him, he would be out of a job soon as drivers like me will stop coming to the park and paying fees and fines and having to walk long distances just to fish. That will leave he and his peers with the free loading bicyclers and horsie people like Freeploaders on this site using the parks and not paying a daily fee or yearly fee. Then he will join the unemployed loggers and other victims of the closing of our outdoors. As he was stammering, I asked if he thought the higher gas prices would cut into driver use of the park/parks. He said probably. I smiled and said, "I hope that you have at least 6 months salary saved in case, you get laid off!"

50 posted on 11/08/2007 8:59:16 AM PST by Grampa Dave (("Ron Paul and his flaming antiwar spam monkeys can Kiss my Ass!!"- Jim Robinson, Sept, 30, 2007))
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