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Libertarians are menace to society, democracy
THE LARIAT ONLINE - BAYLOR UNIVERSITY ^ | 08 NOVEMBER 2007 | BRAD BRIGGS

Posted on 11/08/2007 9:27:47 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist

It seems that calling yourself a libertarian is the chic thing to do in college these days. If students are frustrated with both parties, they often say, "Oh, I'm a libertarian."

On the surface, modern libertarianism does seem enticing -- it's either "the stay out of my bedroom and don't pass laws against what I want to smoke" or the whole "capitalism is god" thing that seems to grab students' attention.

It's understandable. What's more enticing than sexual freedom, reefer madness and lots of money? Hey, throw in unlimited nap time and I'm on board.

I'm not trying to marginalize libertarians, though. They did that to themselves a while ago. But those pesky, politically inept creatures seem to be making a comeback.

Take, for example, the Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul. Paul is an outright libertarian, having run on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1988.

He has generated a bit of buzz on the Internet and managed to pull in $4.2 million in fundraising Monday with his "This November 5th" campaign. It was the largest fundraising record of all the Republicans in the race for one day.

Don't let that fool you, though. Paul is lagging far behind in the polls, and his record speaks more about the poor field of candidates than anything. Paul even had some supporters holding signs Monday out on the corner of Valley Mills and Waco drives. That still doesn't change the fact that Paul is a nutcase, however.

For starters, Paul has gone on record as advocating an end to the federal income tax. Sounds great on paper, but stop and think about all the basic government services you would lose.

No worries for Paul, though, because he is also for abolishing the Department of Education, the Internal Revenue Service, Federal Emergency Management Administration, the Department of Homeland Security and the Interstate Commerce Commission. Basically, if you hate the government, then Paul is your man.

Paul also opposes the Federal Reserve and advocates a return to hard money (gold standard) or authorizing gold and silver as legal tender to compete with our current fiat currency. He also advocates withdrawal from the United Nations and NATO and for workers to opt out of Social Security.

He votes against most spending bills and pretty much anything else not expressly mentioned in the Constitution. This attitude is unproductive at best and downright destructive at worst.

The point is, libertarians are unrealistic people.

They come in all shapes and sizes. Technically, they can lean right or left, but the true libertarian falls within no specific party at all.

But really they are unreasonable people and are usually just lazy closet liberals or conservatives. But I'm just talking about the diehards here -- they can be really annoying.

After all, if you believe in democracy, you have a little libertarian inside of you, too -- we all do.

Modern libertarians are descended from classical liberalism. In the classical definition of the word, most of us are "liberals" -- we believe in limited government, free markets and individual rights among other things.

Both parties today simply put more of an emphasis on either the individual or the economic side of things. But libertarians try to have it both ways, and it doesn't always work. They are just extremist pessimists and should be considered a menace.

You might think I'm picking on Paul. That's because I am.

People like him have no concept of community. They say the "invisible hand" can solve everything, but deep down inside, I think they're just selfish.

If you consider yourself a libertarian or know a libertarian, you should seek immediate professional help.


TOPICS: Philosophy
KEYWORDS: liberaltarians; liberteens
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1 posted on 11/08/2007 9:27:49 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

“What’s more enticing than sexual freedom, reefer madness and lots of money?”

You mean this ISN’T what Libertarians are all about?

:o)


2 posted on 11/08/2007 9:30:35 AM PST by Grunthor (Liberals need to be reminded that The Holy Bible is more than just Godís opinion.)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

4 posted on 11/08/2007 9:33:56 AM PST by Moleman
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
If libertarians were so irrelevant why spend do much time and effort denigrating them?

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

5 posted on 11/08/2007 9:34:20 AM PST by corkoman
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Libertarianism would be more accurately called Libertinism.

Anything goes. Not a good way to run a society.

6 posted on 11/08/2007 9:34:51 AM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Yeah well, if the Republican party was doing even a little bit to cut the size of government and rein in the nanny state, libertarianism would lose a lot of its appeal.


7 posted on 11/08/2007 9:35:04 AM PST by Notary Sojac ("If it ain't broken, fix it 'till it is" - Congress)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

And promising free health care, earned income credits, retirement money for life is also very enticing.


8 posted on 11/08/2007 9:35:45 AM PST by AU72
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
He votes against most spending bills and pretty much anything else not expressly mentioned in the Constitution.

Oh, the HORROR!

9 posted on 11/08/2007 9:35:50 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

I’m a proud libertarian Republican in college.

Note though...the lower case “l”.


10 posted on 11/08/2007 9:36:06 AM PST by TexCon ("Strike while the iron is hot, and make it hotter by striking"-Oliver Cromwell)
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To: Grunthor

‘“What’s more enticing than sexual freedom, reefer madness and lots of money?”

You mean this ISN’T what Libertarians are all about?’

lol. Well, I think if those things make some people happy, they have a Constitutional right to pursue them, do they not? None of those seem to infringe on anyone else’s rights. Just saying...


11 posted on 11/08/2007 9:36:15 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: Texas Eagle

Completely inaccurate. Libertarianism and libertines are as different as night and day.


12 posted on 11/08/2007 9:37:06 AM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: corkoman

I don’t think being a libertarian is all that BAD, but there are some extreme ideas coming from within. Of course, all other political thinking has it’s extremists....

So, someone going to this great extreme has a real problem with them, oh well. Get over it.


13 posted on 11/08/2007 9:37:09 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

It almost makes me want to vote for Paul.


14 posted on 11/08/2007 9:38:26 AM PST by Tribune7 (Dems want to rob from the poor to give to the rich)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
After all, if you believe in democracy, you have a little libertarian inside of you, too -- we all do.

I dont think Brad Briggs does. He's a statist nmumbnutz who wouldnt understand economics if you fed him with a spoon.

15 posted on 11/08/2007 9:39:48 AM PST by Nonstatist
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Now this:

“For starters, Paul has gone on record as advocating an end to the federal income tax. Sounds great on paper, but stop and think about all the basic government services you would lose.”

Is one of the few reasons to vote for Ron Paul.

Those services cost money idiot in Laredo, we are running a huge Debt and Deficit and the cost for those “services” are coming directly out of my pocket, out of my investments and out of my paycheck.

There really isn’t any such bird as a free lunch, and I am far far away from being LP member or booster, they do have a few things correct and that should be acknowledged.


16 posted on 11/08/2007 9:40:00 AM PST by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Isaiah 3.3)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

This has got to be parody.


17 posted on 11/08/2007 9:40:29 AM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Notary Sojac
if the Republican party was doing even a little bit to cut the size of government and rein in the nanny state, libertarianism would lose a lot of its appeal

Well put! Bush has been horrific on spending, and thats why conservatives are going to get spanked big time in the next election.

18 posted on 11/08/2007 9:42:14 AM PST by Nonstatist
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

People like him have no concept of community. They say the "invisible hand" can solve everything, but deep down inside, I think they're just selfish.

Ron Paul has delivered a few thousand children into this world.  What more can you say?  This writer is sadly probably going to go on and get a join in corporate media, his mind has been properly massaged and his polemics are rapid fire.  He has a bright future indeed. 


19 posted on 11/08/2007 9:42:41 AM PST by JerseyHighlander
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

“Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” (Robert Heinlein, science fiction writer)


20 posted on 11/08/2007 9:44:36 AM PST by Wallace T.
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To: Tribune7
It almost makes me want to vote for Paul.

I know. If this article was supposed to be disparaging it didn't do a very good job.

Most of the people on this board including myself are Republicans with what I would call a "libertarian bent."

21 posted on 11/08/2007 9:46:30 AM PST by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: padre35
If the Demopublicans bankrupt the country in the next thirty years, whether or not we win in Iraq will be a minor footnote to our history.

Not that I am against the war. I just think we should have fought it to win rather than using the Mr.Rogers/Care Bears rules of engagement.

22 posted on 11/08/2007 9:46:37 AM PST by Notary Sojac ("If it ain't broken, fix it 'till it is" - Congress)
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To: Texas Eagle
So many fail to see that most Libertarians simply advocate for the same things that the Founders did, namely LIMITED (not non-existent) government. Many others are disillusioned with the two majority parties, and simply want less of them, too. How this gets twisted into "anything goes" is beyond me...

(well, there is the troubling little fact that the national party seems to keep finding the most extreme advocates of the philosophy, but if one realizes that the party is NOT well-represented by those folks, one can stop making improper over-generalizations about the party.)

23 posted on 11/08/2007 9:46:39 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Let's reframe this. Maybe the spelling is what's throwing some people off.

There is a difference between a Libertarian and a libertarian.

24 posted on 11/08/2007 9:48:57 AM PST by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Teacher317
The Founders wouldn’t want people masturbating on their street corners either.
25 posted on 11/08/2007 9:49:08 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (ETERNAL SHAME on the Treasonous and Immoral Democrats!)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
He votes against most spending bills and pretty much anything else not expressly mentioned in the Constitution. This attitude is unproductive at best and downright destructive at worst.

I'm guess I'm a stock-standard 'conservative with libertarian leanings' but this passage from the article is naivete writ large and indicative of the ignorance prevalent (and fostered) on campus.

As usual the Constitution is an inconvenience and a relic to the libbies until they need to 'find' something in it such as abortion or anchor-baby status.

26 posted on 11/08/2007 9:50:24 AM PST by relictele
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To: Notary Sojac

Here Here, I think the situation has turned an important corner in Iraq with Al Quida being on the run and Alliances are being formed with Sunni’s in al Anbar.

WE may go bankrupt in 30 yrs, but if we leave Iraq and the PetroDollar collapses we will be in for some incredibly hard times faster then I can type Stagflation to save the dollar.


27 posted on 11/08/2007 9:52:12 AM PST by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Isaiah 3.3)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
....abolishing the Department of Education, the Internal Revenue Service, Federal Emergency Management Administration, the Department of Homeland Security and the Interstate Commerce Commission

Nothing wrong with that.

28 posted on 11/08/2007 9:53:05 AM PST by stratboy
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
For starters, Paul has gone on record as advocating an end to the federal income tax. Sounds great on paper, but stop and think about all the basic government services you would lose.

No worries for Paul, though, because he is also for abolishing the Department of Education, the Internal Revenue Service, Federal Emergency Management Administration, the Department of Homeland Security and the Interstate Commerce Commission. Basically, if you hate the government, then Paul is your man.

Paul also opposes the Federal Reserve and advocates a return to hard money (gold standard) or authorizing gold and silver as legal tender to compete with our current fiat currency. He also advocates withdrawal from the United Nations and NATO and for workers to opt out of Social Security.

He votes against most spending bills and pretty much anything else not expressly mentioned in the Constitution. This attitude is unproductive at best and downright destructive at worst.

The point is, libertarians are unrealistic people.

So...Ron Paul is pretty much the only candidate who actually supports a return to the government which our Founding Fathers implemented? Works for me!

Ya know, I was kinda waffling about who to vote for this primary. This article has clinched it - RP it is!

29 posted on 11/08/2007 9:54:02 AM PST by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: Teacher317
No one here has yet posted the official FR line on Libertarians, so here goes..

"You're all smelly, atheistic, sexually depraved potheads. No one cares what you think, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Oh, and if our side loses the next election, it'll be your fault for not voting for us."

30 posted on 11/08/2007 9:54:49 AM PST by Notary Sojac ("If it ain't broken, fix it 'till it is" - Congress)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Ridiculous assertion by the author.

Libertarians can’t get out of their own way, let alone become a ‘menace’ to anyone....(chuckle)


31 posted on 11/08/2007 9:56:12 AM PST by Badeye (Ron Paul joined 88 Democrats.....)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Ya know, I’m not a Libertarian by any means, but I’m not big on “democracy” either. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner. Or, these days, its the Democrats deciding that we need to tax "the rich" even more to provide "universal health care" and other goodies.

We have too much “democracy” right now, and, unfortunately, we’re bound and determined to get more.

32 posted on 11/08/2007 9:56:52 AM PST by Little Ray (Rudy Guiliani: If his wives can't trust him, why should we?)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Apparently the state of university education is as bad as I suspect. This could be okay for a sixth grader, but a university newspaper?.

Don't let that fool you, though. Paul is lagging far behind in the polls, and his record speaks more about the poor field of candidates than anything

Why does the fact that Paul (called a nutcase in the next paragraph) is lagging in the polls imply that the other candidated constitute a poor field?

People like him have no concept of community. They say the "invisible hand" can solve everything, but deep down inside, I think they're just selfish.

Who cares what you think? After all the article isn't very thoughtful.

Good arguments can be made against some of the Libertarian posistions. But you made none. For example, the gold standard: you could read Milton Freidman's analysis in his book "Free to Choose." Or you could make arguments about the Libertarians position on abortion from the inalienable rights clause of the Declaration of Independence. Further you could make arguments against free sex on the basis of Blackstone's "Commentaries on the Laws of England." Abraham Lincoln made many arguments against popular sovereingty in his debates with Douglass.

You say he's an unrealistic selfish nutcase whose ideas sound good on paper but are unproductive, annoying, or destructive; and he's just an extremist pessimist and should be considered a menace. At least his ideas sound good on paper.

33 posted on 11/08/2007 9:57:12 AM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: Berlin_Freeper
And where was that in the national Libertarian platform?

(Never mind, don't tell me... it just might be there, LOL. It ain't in MY Libertarian platform!!!)

34 posted on 11/08/2007 9:57:33 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

The needle should be pegged on the BS meter.

This author is an idiot.


35 posted on 11/08/2007 9:58:02 AM PST by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Strawman. Neither would libertarians. PUBLIC behaviors may rightly be regulated. Unlike PRIVATE, consensual behaviors.


36 posted on 11/08/2007 10:00:56 AM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: ctdonath2
A GOP candidate does not have to be -nearly- as "extremist" as Ron Paul to be guaranteed my vote.

It's not necessary to support abolishing Department of Education, the Internal Revenue Service, Federal Emergency Management Administration, the Department of Homeland Security and the Interstate Commerce Commission.

I'd settle for just the DOE and the IRS.

It's not necessary to advocate a return to hard money (gold standard) or withdrawal from the United Nations and NATO and for workers to opt out of Social Security.

Getting out of the UN and the Social Security opt-out would more than satisfy me as a good first step.

I am sure there are a lot of others who are similarly not as "extremist" as Dr. Paul!

37 posted on 11/08/2007 10:02:14 AM PST by Notary Sojac ("If it ain't broken, fix it 'till it is" - Congress)
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To: padre35
“For starters, Paul has gone on record as advocating an end to the federal income tax. Sounds great on paper, but stop and think about all the basic government services you would lose.”

What services? Roads are paid for through the gas tax, license plates, and other fees. Police and fire department are paid for through local taxes. The only "services" the Feds provide that I give a rat's ass about are those proscribed by the Constitution, which are a miniscule part of the budget and could be paid for through tariffs or a 5% national sales tax.

38 posted on 11/08/2007 10:02:16 AM PST by lesser_satan (READ MY LIPS: NO NEW RINOS | FRED THOMPSON/ DUNCAN HUNTER '08)
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To: Little Ray

This nation was never intended to be a pure democracy. It was intended to be a constitutional republic with a democratically elected legislature and executive.


39 posted on 11/08/2007 10:05:48 AM PST by lesser_satan (READ MY LIPS: NO NEW RINOS | FRED THOMPSON/ DUNCAN HUNTER '08)
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To: stratboy

I’m all for abolishing the dept of education but abolishing all taxes completely? That’s nutty.

Also, what is wrong with protecting national security

btw the ICC was abolished


40 posted on 11/08/2007 10:07:39 AM PST by ari-freedom (I am for traditional moral values, a strong national defense, and free markets.)
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To: lesser_satan

That hasn’t stopped Congress.


41 posted on 11/08/2007 10:07:43 AM PST by Little Ray (Rudy Guiliani: If his wives can't trust him, why should we?)
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To: lesser_satan

You may have your quotations mixed up, I never posted that, said Padre to Satan...lol!

Seriously, Govt Services are not very servicable,I have a great disdain for all of the money that is wasted on them.


42 posted on 11/08/2007 10:07:58 AM PST by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Isaiah 3.3)
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To: dcwusmc

“PUBLIC behaviors may rightly be regulated.”

“MAY” but once you open the door you can’t stop it.


43 posted on 11/08/2007 10:08:35 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper (ETERNAL SHAME on the Treasonous and Immoral Democrats!)
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To: padre35

I know, I was just trying to help affirm your post.


44 posted on 11/08/2007 10:10:33 AM PST by lesser_satan (READ MY LIPS: NO NEW RINOS | FRED THOMPSON/ DUNCAN HUNTER '08)
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To: Notary Sojac

Name one candidate that seriously intends to abolish the DOE, IRS, UN membership, and Social Security lock-in.
(And I mean seriously, has a viable plan to, and won’t just reshuffle letters and bureaucrats.)

It’s gonna take someone as nuts as RP to do it.


45 posted on 11/08/2007 10:11:17 AM PST by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: ari-freedom

Originally, US citizens weren’t taxed. Import tarrifs were enough. Heck, it took a Constitutional amendment to allow taxing citizens.


46 posted on 11/08/2007 10:13:08 AM PST by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: padre35
Services! Services! Services!

47 posted on 11/08/2007 10:13:22 AM PST by ari-freedom (I am for traditional moral values, a strong national defense, and free markets.)
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To: ari-freedom
what is wrong with protecting national security

Nothing. That's what the 2nd Amendment is for. If security needs protecting, citizens are called up to do the job - and when that job is done, they go back to work.

48 posted on 11/08/2007 10:14:13 AM PST by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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To: ctdonath2

either way someone has to collect the money. And I’m in favor of zero tariffs, sales tax and capital gains tax as they get in the way of trade


49 posted on 11/08/2007 10:15:55 AM PST by ari-freedom (I am for traditional moral values, a strong national defense, and free markets.)
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To: stratboy

Ron Paul is right on so many domestic issues, and is the only Republican candidate who takes the 10th Amendment seriously. What’s sad is that the man seems to be showing signs of age-related mental deterioration, and is bringing discredit on good ideas by bundling them with a loony foreign policy virtually identical to that of the “antiwar” Left.


50 posted on 11/08/2007 10:18:02 AM PST by hellbender
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