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Border Fence Could Cut Through Backyards
AP, via Breitbart.com ^ | 11-08-2007 | ALICIA A. CALDWELL

Posted on 11/09/2007 3:31:11 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner

GRANJENO, Texas (AP) - Founded 240 years ago, this sleepy Texas town along the Rio Grande has outlasted the Spanish, then the Mexicans and then the short-lived independent Republic of Texas. But it may not survive the U.S. government's effort to secure the Mexican border with a steel fence.

A map obtained by The Associated Press shows that the double- or triple-layer fence may be built as much as two miles from the river on the U.S. side of the Rio Grande, leaving parts of Granjeno and other nearby communities in a potential no-man's-land between the barrier and the water's edge.

Based on the map and what the residents have been told, the fence could run straight through houses and backyards. Some fear it could also cut farmers off from prime farmland close to the water.

(snip)

"We want to be safe, but it's just that this is not a good plan," said Cecilia Benavides, whose riverfront land in Roma, about 50 miles upriver from Granjeno, was granted to the family by the Spanish in "It gives Mexico the river and everything that's behind that wall. It doesn't make any sense to me."

(snip)

"Are we going to lose prime farmland because they are going to build a structure that's not going to work?" Salinas asked. "You're moving the border, basically two miles. You're giving it up to Mexico, and the U.S.-Mexico treaties say you are not supposed to do that."

Homeland Security documents on a department Web site say that "in some cases, secure gates will be constructed to allow land owners access to their private property near the Rio Grande." But the documents offer few details.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; borderfence; domain; eminent; immigrantlist; immigration; texas
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Border security fence vs. eminent domain...an irresistible force hitting an immovable object?
1 posted on 11/09/2007 3:31:13 AM PST by Virginia Ridgerunner
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Too bad. Keep building.


2 posted on 11/09/2007 3:38:09 AM PST by weeder
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Since there is no question about the Government being able to take over land from landowners, I would rather it be condemned to build a border wall instead of a highway or lake.


3 posted on 11/09/2007 3:43:24 AM PST by seemoAR
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

I don’t care if it cuts through whatever, build the damn fence.


4 posted on 11/09/2007 3:43:48 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: weeder
Too bad. Keep building.

As long as it's not your backyard or farm being f'ed up, right?

Ceding 2 miles of territory and the Rio Grande to Mexico is criminal. Build the wall, yes, but build it on the freakin border.

5 posted on 11/09/2007 3:46:07 AM PST by tx_eggman ("Believing without loving turns the best of creeds into a weapon of oppression" Eugene Peterson)
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To: tx_eggman
Ceding 2 miles of territory and the Rio Grande to Mexico is criminal. Build the wall, yes, but build it on the freakin border.

But isn't the border the middle of the river?

6 posted on 11/09/2007 3:47:53 AM PST by jalisco555 ("The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history." Winston Churchill)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

“Homeland Security documents on a department Web site say that “in some cases, secure gates will be constructed to allow land owners access to their private property near the Rio Grande.” But the documents offer few details.”

Some people will be leaving the gates open you know. Why the buffer zone?


7 posted on 11/09/2007 3:48:36 AM PST by Sybeck1 (Join me for the Million Minutemen March --- Summer 2008!!)
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To: Sybeck1
Why the buffer zone?Presumably it can't be built right on the river bank. You need the proper soil to anchor it, you need to build access roads for construction, proper landscaping, etc. I'm not a civil engineer but I assume this was an engineering decision.
8 posted on 11/09/2007 3:56:45 AM PST by jalisco555 ("The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history." Winston Churchill)
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To: jalisco555

“But officials say that putting the fence right up against the river could interfere with its flow during a flood and change its course, illegally altering the border”

Looks like environmentalists at work to me, getting a two-fer here by destroying public property and discrediting border control efforts.


9 posted on 11/09/2007 3:56:59 AM PST by Iconoclast2 (Two wings of the same bird of prey . . .)
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To: jalisco555

“They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate countless worlds, and we fall back. Not again. Not this time. The line must be drawn here! This far, no farther! And I will make them pay for what they have done!” — Picard, to Lily


10 posted on 11/09/2007 3:59:26 AM PST by Sybeck1 (Join me for the Million Minutemen March --- Summer 2008!!)
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To: Iconoclast2
Looks like environmentalists at work to me, getting a two-fer here by destroying public property and discrediting border control efforts.

Maybe, but I don't see how a fence right along a river bank would work from purely engineering perspective. You need to be able to access it easily for repairs, maintenance, etc, and that requires access roads on both sides of the fence.

11 posted on 11/09/2007 4:00:52 AM PST by jalisco555 ("The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history." Winston Churchill)
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To: tx_eggman

Your point is well taken. Giving up excess land makes no sense, and the line should be “hugged” as much as possible. But wherever the line is drawn, you’re always going to have a number of parties pissin’ and moanin’ about the unfairness of it all. Tough tamales. It happens all the time where highways or other public works projects cause forfeitures. But the politically charged nature of this project is going to amplify the caterwauling to the degree that one will think we are beheading their children or something. We must persevere and get this done. End of story.


12 posted on 11/09/2007 4:08:50 AM PST by weeder
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Sarcastically its a shame the Berlin Wall couldn’t have been saved and reused at our southern border.

There must be a buffer zone or else it would be way too easy to have concealed tunnels in houses.


13 posted on 11/09/2007 4:17:01 AM PST by Eye of Unk
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To: Eye of Unk
There must be a buffer zone or else it would be way too easy to have concealed tunnels in houses.

Good point.

14 posted on 11/09/2007 4:19:04 AM PST by jalisco555 ("The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history." Winston Churchill)
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To: seemoAR
Since there is no question about the Government being able to take over land from landowners, I would rather it be condemned to build a border wall instead of a highway or lake.

...Or a shopping mall, marina, and business park in New London, CT that primarily benefits private developers rather than the public good.

15 posted on 11/09/2007 4:22:42 AM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: Sybeck1
Why the buffer zone?

A mine field would be nice.
16 posted on 11/09/2007 4:24:01 AM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: There is no god named Allah, and Muhammed is a false prophet)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Here’s a better idea: declare war on Mexico, take two miles of their river edge land, and build a wall THERE.


17 posted on 11/09/2007 4:26:39 AM PST by King of Florida (A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them.)
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To: King of Florida

Thinking about it, declaring war on Mexico has great possibilities. Every illegal alien from Mexico could be declared an enemy combatant or an illegal combatant or an illegal enemy combatant.


18 posted on 11/09/2007 4:29:13 AM PST by King of Florida (A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them.)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
"It gives Mexico the river and everything that's behind that wall. It doesn't make any sense to me."[Cecilia Benavides]

No, it doesn't change ownership. You still own all the land on the other side of your fence. And it protects 98% of your land from the migrations onto your 2%.

19 posted on 11/09/2007 4:29:35 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: jalisco555
I think it might and I stress might that history may repeat itself and we see another "Berlin Wall" go up at our southern borders. Sadly its all too necessary even though we are the land of democracy and we are being invaded by immigrants, as I recall East Germany did NOT want its citizens to move West toward democracy while now we wish to defend it from being weakened from freedom seeking immigrants, maybe history will repeat itself. While I am proud at times to be an American lately with the possibility of a Marxist president on the horizon I have been thinking, what is America turning into? Another East Germany?
20 posted on 11/09/2007 4:31:39 AM PST by Eye of Unk
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To: Eye of Unk
I think it might and I stress might that history may repeat itself and we see another "Berlin Wall" go up at our southern borders.

The Berlin Wall was built to keep people in, from escaping a communist prison.

A better analogy would be Israel's West Bank wall. We really need a wall, not a fence.

21 posted on 11/09/2007 4:42:00 AM PST by Spirochete
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To: Eye of Unk
I think it might and I stress might that history may repeat itself and we see another "Berlin Wall" go up at our southern borders.

It's really too bad that we even need the fence. If Mexico's economy was operating at its potential and there was less political corruption, and if we enforced our immigration and employment laws, maybe we wouldn't need a fence. Lot's of "ifs". Under the circumstances, however, we need it.

22 posted on 11/09/2007 4:55:44 AM PST by foxfield
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To: Spirochete

Looks like a reversal of history? Either way about who wants a wall, fence, moat or “barrier” its either we build it and be dammed or ratify a reason to NOT build it like invading Mexico, making illegals “combatants” etc. to make an ultimatum that this is OUR border and those that wish to live in OUR borders MUST adhere to our laws and policies, sadly I think the latter will never work.


23 posted on 11/09/2007 4:56:29 AM PST by Eye of Unk
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To: Joe Boucher

Yep, compensate and or move them


24 posted on 11/09/2007 4:57:04 AM PST by colonialhk (Harry and Nancy are our best moron allies)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Getting desperate with their excuses.

Build the fence!


25 posted on 11/09/2007 4:58:01 AM PST by airborne (Proud to be a conservative! Proud to support Duncan Hunter for President!)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Take a look at the satellite view of Granjeno, TX and you can see how the Rio Grande meanders and has changed it's path many times.

The Rio Grande doesn't appear to be the most cooperative of international borders.

I'm sure the flood plain and places where the river formerly flowed are fertile farmland, and it can be challenging for residents who use the river as a water supply for drinking or irrigation.

However, there really isn't an easy or simple solution, and the fence needs to be built.

26 posted on 11/09/2007 5:00:41 AM PST by untrained skeptic
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

The fence should be built on the Border. Not two miles inside the Border.


27 posted on 11/09/2007 5:06:45 AM PST by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Heck, I have had the Mexican/US border as a boundary fence for a ranch. Every night, pull all the batteries from every vehicle. Otherwise, either the rig or the battery will be gone in the morning.


28 posted on 11/09/2007 5:07:21 AM PST by pointsal (q)
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To: jalisco555

Sure it can. We build bridge pylons in the middle of rivers and bays.


29 posted on 11/09/2007 5:08:09 AM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: weeder
But the politically charged nature of this project is going to amplify the caterwauling...

Who is designing this fence and deciding on it's location? Is this a case of "malicious compliance" on the part of disgruntled HSD bureaucrats? Seems to me that a little creative thinking and ingenuity could solve this problem. It doesn't need to be a physical fence or wall with a wide buffer zone, it just needs to keep illegals out.

30 posted on 11/09/2007 5:09:29 AM PST by foxfield
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To: tx_eggman; All
Build the wall, yes, but build it on the freakin border.

The fence through this area will mostly be built atop of existing levees, which is the logical place to put it. The river meanders wildly through this area and to put the fence directly on the river would increase the fence's length at least three fold. Also if the fence were built along the river you have to figure in the additional cost that building it across every creek, arroyo and gully would add.

31 posted on 11/09/2007 5:20:45 AM PST by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations.)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Border Fence Could Cut Through Backyards

Better than illegals cutting through backyards.

Compensate the landowners and keep building.

32 posted on 11/09/2007 5:23:27 AM PST by Larry Lucido (Hunter 2008)
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To: Kozak; Sybeck1
Why the buffer zone?

A mine field would be nice.

A free fire zone?

33 posted on 11/09/2007 5:25:02 AM PST by CPOSharky (Energy plan: Build refineries and nuke plants, drill for our oil, mine our coal.)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

Border security fence vs. eminent domain...an irresistible force hitting an immovable object?

I am on the side of the homeowner. They were there first. I feel the same way about the idiots who complain about the noise coming from an air base because they moved in AFTER the base was there for eighty years. I say too bad. Government find a way to go around the area.


34 posted on 11/09/2007 5:26:56 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: weeder

Too bad. Keep building.

They were there first!!! Stop being rude. These people probably saved their entire lives. The government should have built the fence years and years ago before people were living there. Governments problem to fix not the homeowners.


35 posted on 11/09/2007 5:28:22 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: foxfield

Anything short of a physical fence will allow subjective policies and political leanings to rule the day. This process has been toyed with for far too long. Concrete measures are called for, both literally and figuratively.


36 posted on 11/09/2007 5:29:01 AM PST by weeder
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To: napscoordinator
I am on the side of the homeowner. They were there first.

You might find this article interesting then.

Border residents hope to block fence with Spanish law

37 posted on 11/09/2007 5:32:15 AM PST by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations.)
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To: napscoordinator
The government should have built the fence years and years ago before people were living there.

See my post #37

38 posted on 11/09/2007 5:33:44 AM PST by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations.)
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To: colonialhk

Yep, compensate and or move them

I think whoever is effected should get 1 million dollars. They are being inconvienced so they should be paid. Plus the fussing will stop. lol.


39 posted on 11/09/2007 5:33:52 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: cinives
Sure it can. We build bridge pylons in the middle of rivers and bays.

Rivers change their course. I can visualize a part of the fence ending up in Mexico. Or being dependent on access to Mexico to do repairs and maintenance. Wouldn't that be a mess.

I understand why it seems distasteful but to me building the fence just slightly north of the border makes sense.

40 posted on 11/09/2007 5:33:52 AM PST by jalisco555 ("The only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history." Winston Churchill)
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To: napscoordinator

So no roads, schools, or other services can ever be built because “ someone got there first”? Good thing the founders where more reasonable than you.


41 posted on 11/09/2007 5:35:01 AM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: There is no god named Allah, and Muhammed is a false prophet)
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To: Between the Lines

Sorry, the Constitution is the law of the land, and it provides for eminent domain.


42 posted on 11/09/2007 5:37:00 AM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: There is no god named Allah, and Muhammed is a false prophet)
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To: weeder
The border is not a made up entity. If you’ve run your backyard up against a sovereign border then it seems to me the problem lies with YOU.

Please step aside and allow the construction crews to continue.

43 posted on 11/09/2007 5:38:41 AM PST by servantboy777
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

It doesn’t really matter if the fence is built exactly on the border, a mile on the US side, or 500 yards from the river’s high water mark - the net intent is to stop unchecked entries into the US and controlled, secure gates at entry checkpoints to allow landowners back onto their unsecured land is the best method to check the flow of illegals.

It might “inconvenience” the landowner, but you could call it just another cost of doing business along the border. Better their inconvenience than the whole nation’s.


44 posted on 11/09/2007 5:39:09 AM PST by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: napscoordinator

So, because these people were there first, our country forfeits its right to protect its borders? That’s ludicrous. If there were another terrorist attack (God forbid), by people who slipped across our Southern border, I’d love to hear you explain to the survivors’ families, “We tried to stop them, but we didn’t want to be rude!”


45 posted on 11/09/2007 5:39:09 AM PST by weeder
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To: Between the Lines

Oh see now that pisses me off. I was sticking up for these loons and they go and try to play games. I was even being liberal in my views for the sake of these families and I NEVER normally do that. See they just changed the way I believe the situation should go. Put up the fence and no more games.


46 posted on 11/09/2007 5:39:37 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: weeder

lol. That does sound funny now that you explained it that way.


47 posted on 11/09/2007 5:41:04 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: Eye of Unk
I think it might and I stress might that history may repeat itself and we see another "Berlin Wall" go up at our southern borders.

No comparison, the Berlin Wall was meant to keep people in. This wall is meant to keep people out. I lived four years in Berlin while the wall was still in place, I know the difference. So did JFK:

"Freedom has many difficulties and democracy is not perfect, but we have never had to put a wall up to keep our people in, to prevent them from leaving us."

"While the wall is the most obvious and vivid demonstration of the failures of the Communist system, for all the world to see, we take no satisfaction in it, for it is, as your mayor has said, an offence not only against history but an offense against humanity, separating families, dividing husbands and wives and brothers and sisters, and dividing a people who wish to be joined together.

as I recall East Germany did NOT want its citizens to move West toward democracy while now we wish to defend it from being weakened from freedom seeking immigrants, maybe history will repeat itself.

These aren't "freedom seeking immigrants." They have come here for jobs and are sending back to Mexico over $20 billion a year. Some of them are also coming here to reclaim what they consider to be part of Mexico. If you can't see the difference between a divided country wanting unification [Germany] and an invasion from Mexico, I feel sorry for you.

48 posted on 11/09/2007 5:41:14 AM PST by kabar
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To: foxfield

That wouldn’t stop drug mules and potential terrorists from just popping in anytime they choose.


49 posted on 11/09/2007 5:41:32 AM PST by WildcatClan (DUNCAN HUNTER- The only choice for true conservatives)
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To: servantboy777

Damned right!
A reasonable accommodation is always made when property owners are aggrieved by such policies. It’s not like they’ll be exiled to Minnesota!


50 posted on 11/09/2007 5:43:18 AM PST by weeder
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