$3B border security fund gets the axe

Washington Technology ^ | November 12, 2007 | Alice Lipowicz

[Danette]

DO NOT TRUST LINDSEY GRAHAM

[Brad’s Gramma]

Pecans or walnuts?

Yes! :)

[untrained skeptic]

Such a plan encourages legal immigrants to leave temporarily.

However, we have limits on legal immigration that are far less in number than those who want to come here.

This does absolutely nothing to discourage illegal immigration.

Since we also don't stop people on the way out of the country, we would have to ask Mexico if they returned there, and their government is unreliable with such things. Someone who chooses to overstay their VISA is likely to be able to simply have the refund check sent home to family without ever leaving the country.

Such a program would be 99% worthless in addressing illegal immigration.

If you apply the program to illegal immigrants already here and working, then it would encourage such people to leave once or falsify their return the their home countries once. That is unless you're going to just keep paying them to return home every year even though the keep coming back.

- ‘Opt out’ of future Social Security benefits and receive withheld Payroll tax including employer match as a rebate.

They are already ineligible to receive Social Security benefits, so this is just giving them something Americans can't even get. You're just encouraging more to come by offering them more money. They effectively take home more than American workers, which means they will be willing to work for even less and undercut Americans. This is an incredibly bad idea.

- Don’t use Medicare/Medicaid services and get a rebate.

Great, so we are going to pay them not to use government services. Can I get that deal too? Of course if they need serious medical care they are going to forgo the relatively small rebate, and we still get stuck with the bill.

Once again, it rewards immigrants above what Americans receive. It will make American workers less competitive because they don't get these rebates and need higher wages to have the same take home pay. Another really, really bad idea.

- At $7.50/hr for 40 weeks close to $1800 in rebate is a powerful carrot waiting at home.

Which they may or may not have to return home to collect, but it does absolutely nothing to discourage them from returning.

- Back home, their village benefits from the influx of capital for commerce creating new jobs.

Billions are already sent from illegal immigrants to family back in their home nations. It hasn't generated a lot of economic development in Mexico because a few rich families exert tremendous control over the economy there, and it is hard to be prosperous if those in control refuse to do business with you or actively work against you.

- The ability to cross legally (after a background check) dries up the black market for coyotes who sometimes put people at risk of death..

Only if you allow unlimited legal immigration which would reduce the barrier for many and flood our labor market with even more immigrants willing to work for a far lower standard of living and quickly lower our standard of living closer to Mexico's.

If you still limit immigration, then your plan does nothing to discourage illegal immigration.

- Funds go further based on a lower cost of living. For instance, a child’s braces which cost thousands in the USA are only hundreds at home.

If health care is so great in Mexico, why aren't American's crossing the border in droves for the cheaper health care there?

- Easy access for emergencies and the requirement to live at home a few months each year means your kids are not abandoned with grandparents for years at a time.

Once again we are only talking about legal immigrants, and unless you are going to flood the country with even more immigrants, that is still going to be a relatively small portion.

- Since only qualified foreign workers receive a rebate, workers with nothing to hide gladly pay for health and criminal background checks at the border.

You do realize that we already have legal immigration, and temporary worker visas, don't you?

- A Mexican roofer in Michigan returns home each winter, collects the rebate, and may cross for funerals or births, so is less likely to start a new family in Michigan.

They are going to start a new family in the US because we grant citizenship to anyone born in the US, and we giver immigration preferences to their family members, even their parents that came here illegally to have their children.

- When more Spanish speaking children stay home, the strain on our public schools is reduced.

There is no real incentive not to have children in the US and a very large on to do so. The incentives to not bring their families are also relatively small to non-existent, especially when we are required to educate them here for free, and provide medical care if it is needed.

You must be incredibly naive or willfully ignoring the fact that the only way you are going to have people not immigrating illegally is to let everyone who wants to come here do so legally, and that would push our own citizens' standard of living down toward that of Mexico. Our middle class would be much less effected in competition for their jobs, but would have to bear the tax burden of tens of millions of more people that pay far less in taxes then they receive in benefits.

This would destroy our economy.

However, the unions would love it because Americans would be desperate to do anything they can to stop the downward slide of wages, and you'd have a massive influx of uneducated laborers for them to exploit for their own gain.

Incredibly bad ideas.

[yorkie]

You ladies need a proper meal before dessert. I've got the charcoal white hot, and a pot full of chicken to BBQ. Home-made noodles and corn on the cob to finish it. Plenty for all! AuntB - don't forget to bring the brownies!

[paul51]

“The amendment that I offered, supported by all my colleagues here, passed 95-1. Only in Washington would that be a mixed signal,” Graham said at a Nov. 7 press conference.

Mixed signal BS. Only in DC can the sleaze get away with such behavior. We will vote in favor of it to cover our asses and then have the opportunity later to vote in favor of legislation with it removed.

[processing please hold]

sonofabitch. pardon my french. I knew we were being strung along all the time. NAU will be our future. They’ll all make sure of that.

[yorkie]

We still have to get through the Land of the Sea Treaty.....we can’t give up, yet.

[Sun]

“trust me...”

I do. :)

I’ve done everything that comes into my head - donate to his campaign, call talk shows, write editor’s letters, contact MSM and tell them to have him on his show, etc.

American needs Duncan Hunter!

[VOA]

bump

[processing please hold]

I'm so mad I could spit. They will not stop until our country is a thing of the past. I'm not ready to give up just yet but I can't deny what is happening right before my eyes.

If LOST is ratified.....................

[pissant]

It should not be in the defense bill anyway. But damn it, they need to be moving on this. there is no lack of funds, only lack of will.

[TheLion]

Bttt!

[Travis McGee]

Same old one-note Dane. But thanks for bumping the thread, to help reveal the perfidy of our Quisling congress critters.

Every bump means 15 more will read about those treasonous ba$tards.

U.S. Constitution, Article 4 Section 4:

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,

and shall protect each of them against Invasion;"

---

Invasion: \In*va"sion\, n. [L. invasio: cf. F. invasion. See Invade.] [1913 Webster]

1. The act of invading; the act of encroaching upon the rights or possessions of another; encroachment; trespass.

QUISLING: a synonym for traitor, someone who collaborates with the invaders of his country.

[raybbr]

Now where and when did I EVER say that all hispanics are like the *_____* of most illegals? I have not. I have two families near & dear to me who will vouch for that. Sheesh.

Remember, Dane can't keep an argument straight.

[Brad’s Gramma]

I stole the picture. Thank you!

[ovrtaxt]

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1064.xml

Read it and weep.

Apparently, the main event was a pissing match about Iraq. The border wasn’t even an issue, as far as I can tell.

[Vaquero]

this link does not work for me. It could be the firewall at work, or it could be the link.

[Man50D]

Conservatives need to do better research, and throw the RINOs out in the primaries.

Unfortunately Conservatives have become the minority RINOs since the GOP has incrementally aligned itself with the socialist Democrats for the sake of appeasement and compromise. Having Duncan Hunter as the GOP nominee will send a strong signal the party is returning to what once was its Conservative base.

[Man50D]

Make each candidate for any office fill out a pledge of allegiance to the Constitution

That won't work. They take a pledge to the Constitution when they are sworn in but still ignore to uphold the Constitution. It will be best to keep the pressure on them with your suggestion of cards, letters, emails and faxes. I also add phone calls.

[wolfcreek]

Read it but, Thanks for the ping!

At least Border Security *WAS* tied to National Defense.
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