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Advice to young men: Do not marry, do not have children
ENTERSTAGERIGHT ^ | 11/12/2007 | Stephen Baskerville

Posted on 11/13/2007 7:08:30 AM PST by Responsibility2nd

Marriage is a foundation of civilized life. No advanced civilization has ever existed without the married, two-parent family. Those who argue that our civilization needs healthy marriages to survive are not exaggerating.

And yet I cannot, in good conscience, urge young men to marry today. For many men (and some women), marriage has become nothing less than a one-way ticket to jail. Even the New York Times has reported on how easily "the divorce court leads to a jail cell," mostly for men. In fact, if I have one urgent piece of practical advice for young men today it is this: Do not marry and do not have children.

Spreading this message may also, in the long run, be the most effective method of saving marriage as an institution. For until we understand that the principal threat to marriage today is not cultural but political, and that it comes not from homosexuals but from heterosexuals, we will never reverse the decline of marriage. The main destroyer of marriage, it should be obvious, is divorce. Michael McManus of Marriage Savers points out that "divorce is a far more grievous blow to marriage than today's challenge by gays." The central problem is the divorce laws.

It is well known that half of all marriages end in divorce. But widespread misconceptions lead many to believe it cannot happen to them. Many conscientious people think they will never be divorced because they do not believe in it. In fact, it is likely to happen to you whether you wish it or not.

First, you do not have to agree to the divorce or commit any legal transgression. Under "no-fault" divorce laws, your spouse can divorce you unilaterally without giving any reasons. The judge will then grant the divorce automatically without any questions.

But further, not only does your spouse incur no penalty for breaking faith; she can actually profit enormously. Simply by filing for divorce, your spouse can take everything you have, also without giving any reasons. First, she will almost certainly get automatic and sole custody of your children and exclude you from them, without having to show that you have done anything wrong. Then any unauthorized contact with your children is a crime. Yes, for seeing your own children you will be subject to arrest.

There is no burden of proof on the court to justify why they are seizing control of your children and allowing your spouse to forcibly keep you from them. The burden of proof (and the financial burden) is on you to show why you should be allowed to see your children.

The divorce industry thus makes it very attractive for your spouse to divorce you and take your children. (All this earns money for lawyers whose bar associations control the careers of judges.) While property divisions and spousal support certainly favor women, the largest windfall comes through the children. With custody, she can then demand "child support" that may amount to half, two-thirds, or more of your income. (The amount is set by committees consisting of feminists, lawyers, and enforcement agents – all of whom have a vested interest in setting the payments as high as possible.) She may spend it however she wishes. You pay the taxes on it, but she gets the tax deduction.

You could easily be left with monthly income of a few hundreds dollars and be forced to move in with relatives or sleep in your car. Once you have sold everything you own, borrowed from relatives, and maximized your credit cards, they then call you a "deadbeat dad" and take you away in handcuffs. You are told you have "abandoned" your children and incarcerated without trial.

Evidence indicates that, as men discover all this, they have already begun an impromptu marriage "strike": refusing to marry or start families, knowing they can be criminalized if their wife files for divorce. "Have anti-father family court policies led to a men's marriage strike?" ask Glenn Sacks and Dianna Thompson in the Philadelphia Enquirer. In Britain, fathers tour university campuses warning young men not to start families. In his book, From Courtship to Courtroom, Attorney Jed Abraham concludes that the only protection for men to avoid losing their children and everything else is not to start families in the first place.

Is it wise to disseminate such advice? If people stop marrying, what will become of the family and our civilization?

Marriage is already all but dead, legally speaking, and divorce is the principal reason. The fall in the Western birth rate is directly connected with divorce law.

It is also likely that same-sex marriage is being demanded only because of how heterosexuals have already debased marriage through divorce law. "The world of no-strings heterosexual hookups and 50% divorce rates preceded gay marriage," advocate Andrew Sullivan points out. "All homosexuals are saying...is that, under the current definition, there's no reason to exclude us. If you want to return straight marriage to the 1950s, go ahead. But until you do, the exclusion of gays is simply an anomaly – and a denial of basic civil equality."

We will not restore marriage by burying our heads in the sand; nor simply by preaching to young people to marry, as the Bush administration's government therapy programs now do. The way to restore marriage as an institution in which young people can place their trust, their children, and their lives is to make it an enforceable contract. We urgently need a national debate about divorce, child custody, and the terms under which the government can forcibly sunder the bonds between parents and their children. We owe it to future generations, if there are to be any.

Stephen Baskerville, Ph.D., is assistant professor of government at Patrick Henry College and President of the American Coalition for Fathers and Children. His book, Taken Into Custody: The War Against Fathers, Marriage, and the Family, has just been published by Cumberland House Publishing.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deadculture; divorce; divorcecourts; familylaw; fathersrights; game; hedonism; liberalfascism; marriage; obama; profamily; pua; single
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I know a few men like Dr. Baskerville. They belong to what I call the 'Bitter Bachelor's Club'.

Divorced men who have been royally ripped off by so called "family courts".

1 posted on 11/13/2007 7:08:32 AM PST by Responsibility2nd
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To: Responsibility2nd

Yeah, but to go bitter against marriage and either wind up living in mommy’s basement when they are 40 or decide to go gay is not the answer.


2 posted on 11/13/2007 7:10:20 AM PST by Bushwacker777
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To: Responsibility2nd

marry a traditional woman if you want a family

don’t be a mouse-man


3 posted on 11/13/2007 7:11:26 AM PST by wardaddy (This country is being destroyed by folks who could have never created it.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I greatly hate to say this: Much in this article is very accurate, and worth serious consideration.


4 posted on 11/13/2007 7:12:04 AM PST by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: Responsibility2nd
And yet I cannot, in good conscience, urge young men to marry today. For many men (and some women), marriage has become nothing less than a one-way ticket to jail. Even the New York Times has reported on how easily "the divorce court leads to a jail cell," mostly for men. In fact, if I have one urgent piece of practical advice for young men today it is this: Do not marry and do not have children.

My advice to young men: spit on Miss Baskerville every time you walk by his prissy little self.

5 posted on 11/13/2007 7:13:28 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Responsibility2nd

There are worse outcomes than not being married. The debris-field of ruined lives is evident all around us. If you have a good marriage and good children, you should thank God every day.


6 posted on 11/13/2007 7:15:07 AM PST by kittymyrib
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To: Responsibility2nd

Communist party goal #40, as read into the US Congressional record in 1963:

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.


7 posted on 11/13/2007 7:15:50 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agamemnon dead.)
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To: Bushwacker777

These “Fathers Rights” types really need to take a long hard look at how they screwed up. They need to look in the mirror to see why the marriage failed.

I’m not saying that all marriages fail because the husband was a no good bum.

But still... if he married a “bride-zilla” type of girl; a girl he met in a bar; a girl.... well you know what I mean.... then she leaves him, takes the kids and takes him to the cleaners in divorce court..... then I still feel zero sympathy for him.

Men need to take responsibility 1st.


8 posted on 11/13/2007 7:15:52 AM PST by Responsibility2nd
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To: Responsibility2nd

marriage = bad. doesn’t sound like good odds at all. 50% of marriages end in divorce.

the rest end in death.


9 posted on 11/13/2007 7:17:25 AM PST by absolootezer0 (Only two products have come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. Coincidence? I think not.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I wouldn’t give up my family for anything. If my wife divorced me tommorrow I would get joint custody since that is the norm as I understand it in Florida, and she could take as much money as the law would give her, and I wouldn’t for a moment even consider wanting my child not to exist.

In other words, living a half life, alone, without family, is not the solution to the risk of divorce. My solution . . . look for a believing Christian wife. Stats say it doesn’t much matter, but that is why I say “believing,” not a woman just going through the motions.


10 posted on 11/13/2007 7:17:42 AM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I wouldn’t give up my family for anything. If my wife divorced me tommorrow I would get joint custody since that is the norm as I understand it in Florida, and she could take as much money as the law would give her, and I wouldn’t for a moment even consider wanting my child not to exist.

In other words, living a half life, alone, without family, is not the solution to the risk of divorce. My solution . . . look for a believing Christian wife. Stats say it doesn’t much matter, but that is why I say “believing,” not a woman just going through the motions.


11 posted on 11/13/2007 7:17:42 AM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: AFPhys

This piece is spot-on. Described my world to perfection (with a few deviations - I don’t live in Mom’s basement). In addition, my ex had all the fault (joined the rodeo if you know what I mean). Now, the system extorts money from me and she is free to alienate my children at her whim.

It is a very broken system.


12 posted on 11/13/2007 7:17:46 AM PST by nesnah
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To: Responsibility2nd

Wow, talk about cynical.
I’m in the group that believes many modern American women are difficult for men to have relationships with, but this guy has gone off the deep end.
Not all women are so cold and calculating.


13 posted on 11/13/2007 7:19:13 AM PST by brownsfan (America has "jumped the shark")
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To: Greg F

I understand where you are coming from and I was you many years ago. If you have to go through it, and I pray that you never do, you’re eyes will be forced open by a system that you obviously (and I say that respectfully) have little understanding of.


14 posted on 11/13/2007 7:19:40 AM PST by nesnah
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To: Responsibility2nd
“divorce is a far more grievous blow to marriage than today’s challenge by gays.” Complete Nonsense

“It is well known that half of all marriages end in divorce.” Complete nonsense and completely untrue. It may be well known but what is known is false. The REAL numbers are less than ONE THIRD. The fact is the majority of marriages stay together. This alone should be an argument for marriage not against it.

This story by spewing false information is a threat to marriage and society.

The homosexual agenda is very interested to spewing much the same nonsense about marriage in an effort to redefine it to the extent that it will include them.

There are plenty of good girls our there who don’t believe this kind of trash. Boys, go get them and have 10 children and may you live long enough to see your children's children.

Legally speaking marriage is being challenged by homosexuality every single day.

15 posted on 11/13/2007 7:20:57 AM PST by SQUID
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To: Responsibility2nd

Men do get the raw end of the deal quite often but abandoing marriage and family is no answer as it would merely destroy our civilization and also hand the feminists the victory they crave.

As stated earlier, if you marry a traditional woman your chances of this happening to you are decreased significantly. Also, courts are beginning to turn around so enough of the rubbish of showing your anger through abandoning marriage — besides, if you sleep around and get a gal pregnant you then leave yourself even more vulnerable to the courts without any benefits of family whatsoever. Yes the system needs changing badely, but unless guys want to get their jollies with their computers or buy choose on of the Village People as their fashion guru and hang out at the local gay bar then you just have to make the best of it.


16 posted on 11/13/2007 7:21:07 AM PST by Bushwacker777
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To: Responsibility2nd
We just finished a trial here in Nevada of a guy named Daren Mack. A very successful family, he was a millionaire. He was so enraged that he brutally murdered his ex wife and took a pot shot at the judge in his divorce case (who BTW is a fully acknowledged a%%hole). Hi life was ruined by divorce. Many who know him say he was not the most stable guy to start with but the judge cleaned him out on the divorce.
17 posted on 11/13/2007 7:21:10 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Illegal Immigration, a Clear and Present Danger.)
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To: wardaddy

I agree.


18 posted on 11/13/2007 7:21:10 AM PST by ConservativeMind
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To: wardaddy

“marry a traditional woman if you want a family”

Of course, that goes without saying, the problem is, that kind of woman is getting harder to find, and the wrong kind have figured out how to reel men in.


19 posted on 11/13/2007 7:21:38 AM PST by ByDesign
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To: nesnah

Keep in mind that I do not agree with the writer’s advice to avoid marriage and family. BUT, in doing it all over again I would BE VERY CHOOSY about the woman.


20 posted on 11/13/2007 7:22:07 AM PST by nesnah
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To: Responsibility2nd

Sounds like someone has the “red eye” left over from an unfavorable family court proceeding...


21 posted on 11/13/2007 7:22:26 AM PST by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

My wife of 6 years decided she no longer wanted to be married. I thank GOD we didn’t have children. That was 14 years ago and I have not remarried and I have no regrets whatsoever.


22 posted on 11/13/2007 7:22:42 AM PST by bigcat32
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To: Responsibility2nd

Exactly. They need to quit acting like a bunch of victims. It takes two to end a marriage.

Marriages last because both partners are investing in it. If one stops investing in a marriage the other reacts to that and a marriage collapses. I’m no marriage expert but my husband invests in our marriage all the time. And when he invests in our marriage I invest right back. And it keeps us both in love with each other, faithful, and best of friends.


23 posted on 11/13/2007 7:22:46 AM PST by Halls (I hate illegals, I hate socialism, I hate liberals! What else can I say?)
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To: AFPhys
We have a relative going threw divorce..and there certainly is a pattern. False domestic violence accusation, arrest, restraining order, etc.
It is enough to scare a young man..and should. So you need to avoid some women at all costs. A woman who has come from a welfare history family is more likely to be a problem. One who’s mother has had a similar history.
They learn what they observe as children.
Many mail order brides also get briefed on their new “rights”.
If you have money..protect it with a premarital agreement.
As a parent you can help. Don’t reward a stupid marriage.
Buy them a house...keep the title in your name.
24 posted on 11/13/2007 7:22:55 AM PST by Oldexpat
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To: ClearCase_guy
I believe ir should take $50,000 to get married in fees and $50 to get divorced. That would help the “oh I knocked her up” crowd.
25 posted on 11/13/2007 7:23:29 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Illegal Immigration, a Clear and Present Danger.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I think the NOW Hags have had a LARGE hand in this. Let’s place the blame where it belongs. The Democrats and the NOW Hags.

Not that anyone could’ve kept me pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen, but they sold millions of women a “Bill of Goods” that did nothing to advance a womans role in society other than set us up as workhorses and second-income earners at the expense of our kids. It did nothing but remove our spines and we’ve ended up with two generations now of fatherless kids and screwed up families.

I speak from experience. Mom left us when she was 40, to “find herself.” Yep. She “found herself” in the arms of another man.

Add me to the “Bitter Daughter’s Club,” and in my generation (1960-present), we are legion.


26 posted on 11/13/2007 7:23:36 AM PST by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
I know a few men like Dr. Baskerville. They belong to what I call the 'Bitter Bachelor's Club'.

Divorced men who have been royally ripped off by so called "family courts".

I've been there, and looking back on it, I was lucky to get off as lightly as I did. Nowadays, I advise my young nephews (and nieces) not to think of marriage until they are in their late twenties/early thirties.

27 posted on 11/13/2007 7:23:58 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Feminism destroyed marriage and the family, as many conservatives predicted.


28 posted on 11/13/2007 7:24:08 AM PST by Hacklehead (Proud graduate of the Klingon School of Interpersonal Communication.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
I'm sure each of us knows at least one man to whom this has happened, and that we also know many to whom it has not.

I have a friend in her late 50s who ended up with an income of $20,000/year, while her millionaire husband owns several homes, flies around the world on luxury business trips, and buys cars for his less-well-off relatives. I also know my brother, whose wife repeatedly cheated on him. He took parenting classes, and was able to demonstrate to court mediators that he was the one who got the kids up and off to school, cooked their meals, helped them with their homework, and put them to bed. He got primary custody--and this was in California.

Divorce is terrible for most people, I think, and for nearly all children.

29 posted on 11/13/2007 7:24:14 AM PST by American Quilter (The urge to save humanity is nearly always a cover for the urge to rule. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I went through all this and it’s very accurate. Lucky for my kids they were all teens. I don’t know what happens to people that can make them turn on the ones they love but it happens all the time. My Ex did everything she could to ruin me and although my world was falling apart around me, I still had the love of my kids. I still demanded them show respect to their mother. They knew what was happening and through their love of me it made it bearable. I told my kids that because I had them, I would do it all over again.


30 posted on 11/13/2007 7:24:20 AM PST by Haddit (Hunter is still the Best)
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To: Responsibility2nd
IMHO, it is all just a manifestation of the general feminization of society.
31 posted on 11/13/2007 7:24:29 AM PST by Prokopton
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To: Responsibility2nd

Funny, I came to the same conclusion as Dr. Baskerville except I’m still married to my first wife of twenty years, and am in the process of adopting our first child.

I believe what you’re doing is called “blaming the victim.”


32 posted on 11/13/2007 7:24:39 AM PST by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: brownsfan

Cynical?

Sure. But look at the replies on this thread from those “bitter bachelors”.

I have 3 brothers who are members. And the stories they tell!

When one goes to court to complain they are being denied visitation, what does the judge do?

Why, she tells the mom to cooperate, but then - on a motion filed by the ex wife - she promptly raises his monthly child support payment.

Moral: Men are screwed each and every time they step into “family court”.


33 posted on 11/13/2007 7:26:24 AM PST by Responsibility2nd
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To: SQUID
Adult, heterosexual men, are not in danger of going “gay” because of divorce fears, in my opinion.

No more so than they are in danger of turning to bestiality.

34 posted on 11/13/2007 7:26:25 AM PST by ConservativeMind
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To: brownsfan

” Not all women are so cold and calculating. “

Enough are to make marriage a risky endeavor — and those that aren’t can get lawyers that most emphatically are...

There’s the old joke about the fellow who finally got that marriage thing figured out — every five years he finds a woman he can’t stand and buys her a house.....


35 posted on 11/13/2007 7:26:54 AM PST by Uncle Ike (We has met the enemy, and he is us........)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I have a better idea: marry women of character. If one remains paranoid, then make sure to stash away several tens of thousands of dollars in cash somewhere unbeknown to your spouse “in case”.


36 posted on 11/13/2007 7:27:22 AM PST by montag813
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To: Responsibility2nd
Under "no-fault" divorce laws, your spouse can divorce you unilaterally without giving any reasons. The judge will then grant the divorce automatically without any questions.

Sharria Law for Estrogen-Americans.

I agree with all he says. I advise my young troops: don't do it, you'll regret it to your dying day.

37 posted on 11/13/2007 7:27:30 AM PST by Old Sarge (This tagline in memory of FReeper 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub)
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To: wardaddy

You posted my thoughts-

get involved in a good, TRADITIONAL Christian church, preferably a large one.

Be a good, traditional MAN. And find a good, traditional WOMAN.

Have no doubt, the secular socialists, acting as Satan’s direct tools, know that marriage is the basis of civilization, and they DO seek to destroy marriage AND traditional civilization.


38 posted on 11/13/2007 7:27:41 AM PST by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Responsibility2nd

People marry for all the wrong reasons. When I was a youngster, there was societal pressure to marry. I remember my mother telling me how lonely I was going to be if I didn’t marry. And that was pretty much the common theme back then. Marriage is a good thing, of course, but there are some people who simply should not marry. I’m one of them. I’m happy that I didn’t marry or have children. It’s just that I know I would not make a good wife or mother. A good marriage and successfully raising a family takes hard work, commitment and sacrifice. I know I don’t have what it takes, so why add to the statistics?


39 posted on 11/13/2007 7:28:10 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: kittymyrib
If you have a good marriage and good children, you should thank God every day.

I've got half of that - the good children - and I do Thank God every day!

40 posted on 11/13/2007 7:28:12 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Except for what the gays said, I agree 100% with everything Doctor Baskerville said. It’s all true and I went through it and, yes, I slept in the car.

Today I’m happily married and will stay that way, but when my first marriage blew up, the only way I found out of the mess Dr. Baskerville describes was to help another lawyer make payments on his (fill in the blank: Porsche or whatever).

Divorce is an industry all right, and a profitable one.


41 posted on 11/13/2007 7:28:16 AM PST by RoadTest ("The Lord bringeth the council of the heathen to naught" - Psalm 33, verse 10)
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To: papertyger

Ah! My wife and I adopted from China nine years ago, our first child, after twenty years of marriage. Just so happens the twentieth wedding present is “CHINA”....;-)


42 posted on 11/13/2007 7:28:17 AM PST by azhenfud (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: nesnah

I’m sorry about your divorce and that your wife is saying bad things about you to the kids. If it is any consolation, I’m a child of divorce, and my mother said bad things about my Dad (nothing too horrible, but she was bitter and inappropriate in the way she talked to us about him). But we stayed loyal to our Dad as well, and every year got smarter and could judge what was what for ourselves.


43 posted on 11/13/2007 7:29:11 AM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: Hacklehead
Feminism destroyed marriage and the family, as many conservatives predicted.

That was the goal.

44 posted on 11/13/2007 7:29:30 AM PST by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Halls
It takes two to end a marriage.

No it doesn't---it only takes one. If your husband decided tomorrow he no longer wanted to be married to you, there's not a damn thing you can do about it. It took me about a year and a half to figure out that you cannot push rope, no matter how hard you try.

45 posted on 11/13/2007 7:29:53 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Well, if A, then certainly B.


46 posted on 11/13/2007 7:29:58 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: Bushwacker777
Whoa man. Those aren't the only two options, especially with todays women who are more than happy to give the milk away for free.

If the wife is truly bad, tape your phone calls with her if its legal in your state and then present her a copy letting her know you will be taking her back to court. Make a real effort to get your kids and don't give up.

I have a good friend who did just this and he now has custody and gets child support.

Men just need to fight with good lawyers and stay cool.

47 posted on 11/13/2007 7:30:06 AM PST by normy (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.)
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To: kittymyrib
If you have a good marriage and good children, you should thank God every day.

+1 to that.

48 posted on 11/13/2007 7:30:09 AM PST by Ramcat (Thank You American Veterans)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Communist party goal #40, as read into the US Congressional record in 1963: 40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

I remember reading about this. The communists also strongly supported government-run schools. Lenin said, "Give me your children for five years in a a government school, and you'll never get them back again."

49 posted on 11/13/2007 7:30:18 AM PST by American Quilter (The urge to save humanity is nearly always a cover for the urge to rule. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Sounds like he ruined his own life, certainly the life of his ex wife. I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail where he belongs.


50 posted on 11/13/2007 7:30:31 AM PST by twigs
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