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Minutemen's high-tech border barrier called 'a cow fence' (Simcox-Minuteman)
CNN ^ | November 7, 2007 | Abbie Boudreau and Ken Shiffman

Posted on 11/15/2007 1:28:04 PM PST by gophergas

It was supposed to be 14 feet high and topped with razor wire. It was also supposed to send a message to Washington that if the government wouldn't seal off the southern border, volunteers could. Almost two years later, the reality is a five-strand barbed-wire barrier that ranchers dismiss as a mere cattle fence.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alien; aliens; border; illegal; illegalaliens; illegals; immigrantlist; immigration; minuteman; minutemen; simcox
This is what CNN is saying, so naturally I'm a little skeptical. I've seen some images of Minuteman fencing that was clearly above and beyond what CNN was showing (it came from National Geographic). I'd like to hear an unbiased report of what's really happening with this.
1 posted on 11/15/2007 1:28:06 PM PST by gophergas
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To: gophergas

Someone needs to ping Duncan Hunter!! If true, this is appalling! What happened to the millions of $$$ Congress set aside for the fence?!?!


2 posted on 11/15/2007 1:29:16 PM PST by pillut48 (CJ in TX --Soccer Mom and proud RUSH REPUBLICAN! WIN, FRED, WIN!!!)
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To: gophergas

So would I.


3 posted on 11/15/2007 1:29:16 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: gophergas

Here are photos. CNN is lying.

http://www.minutemanborderfence.com/


4 posted on 11/15/2007 1:31:07 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Fred Thompson)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Good job.


5 posted on 11/15/2007 1:34:24 PM PST by normy (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.)
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To: MeanWestTexan

I wish I could just take that at face value. Sure, that’s one image of a Minuteman fence, but CNN shows other images of something that’s allegedly electrical conduit stuck in the ground, and others that are little more than sticks standing haphazardly. And yet others that are nothing more than barbed-wire fencing (of which I’ve installed more than my fair share during my life).

I’d like to see something from a reasonably unbiased source on this.


6 posted on 11/15/2007 1:35:03 PM PST by gophergas
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To: MeanWestTexan
CNN is lying? Thank you, Mr. Obvious, for pointing out this unusual fact.
7 posted on 11/15/2007 1:35:39 PM PST by gathersnomoss (General George Patton had it right.)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; 7.62 x 51mm; ..

ping


8 posted on 11/15/2007 1:42:55 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: MeanWestTexan

The fence shown at your link has some design flaws that make it easy to defeat. It would be easy to go through this fence with a set of wire cutters or a shovel.


9 posted on 11/15/2007 1:52:28 PM PST by jonrick46
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To: gophergas
CNN's meaning is clear --the fence needs to be longer, more robust.

GREAT GOING, CNN..!

"CNN advocates robust border enforcement...!"

Let's spread the word!

10 posted on 11/15/2007 1:56:41 PM PST by gaijin
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To: MeanWestTexan
Here are photos. CNN is lying.

Looks like a cow fence to me. From your link:

It should be built like this.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

We can rebuild Afghanistan and Irq, and we can't protect our own borders?

11 posted on 11/15/2007 1:58:59 PM PST by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: gophergas
My head is spinning. Lemme get this straight...

1. First they say it's IMPOSSIBLE

2. Now they say it's NOT ENOUGH

3. Tomorrow...? It's TOO MUCH...!!!

Basically they'll hate ANYTHING we do.

12 posted on 11/15/2007 1:59:42 PM PST by gaijin
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To: MeanWestTexan

Great post. It’s not the Berlin Wall but it certainly looks difficult to get over.


13 posted on 11/15/2007 2:01:13 PM PST by Slapshot68
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To: gaijin
My style is kinda the "mines and gatling guns" kind of vibe...


14 posted on 11/15/2007 2:01:47 PM PST by gaijin
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To: gaijin

15 posted on 11/15/2007 2:03:14 PM PST by gaijin
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To: MeanWestTexan

“Here are photos. CNN is lying”

I want to think they are but look about 1/4 of the way down the page (your link).


16 posted on 11/15/2007 2:07:32 PM PST by ryan71
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To: gophergas
"Minutemen's high-tech border barrier called 'a cow fence'"

.

Federal Govt's high-tech border barrier called 'a: no-fence'"

.

17 posted on 11/15/2007 2:09:08 PM PST by R_Kangel ("Please insert witty tag-line here")
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To: MeanWestTexan
"Almost two years later, the reality is a five-strand barbed-wire barrier that ranchers dismiss as a mere cattle fence......

Picture from the site you provided looks like the above statement in the article to me.

width>

The Minutemen have been working since 2006 on the construction of a reliable, practical and affordable demonstration border fence built with donations from people just like you. These generous patriots have paved the way to a secure and safe America. You can make a difference you can show the U.S. government that fences do work! You can help get the job done right by donating to the Minutemen Border Fence.

18 posted on 11/15/2007 2:09:44 PM PST by Spunky ("Everyone has a freedom of choice, but not of consequences.")
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To: gaijin

Ah yes, the JDAM fence. One of my favorites.


19 posted on 11/15/2007 2:11:10 PM PST by ryan71
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To: MeanWestTexan
I went to the link. You are joking, right? That fence in the photo gallery looks pretty easy to climb. What is it, 10 ft. tall? A mass of hand/foot holes? I don't see any "barbed wire".

Maybe I clicked the wrong "Photo Gallery" link.

20 posted on 11/15/2007 2:14:04 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (Don't trust anyone who canít take a joke. [Congressman BillyBob])
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To: gophergas
Too bad they can't see their way to being this snarky and critical of the taxpayer funded government-built fence that isn't being built.


21 posted on 11/15/2007 2:14:37 PM PST by Iron Munro ( (Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.))
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To: gaijin

You know, that’s a good way of looking at it. Welcome to the party, CNN! Glad to hear you guys want a really top-of-the-line border fence.


22 posted on 11/15/2007 2:28:59 PM PST by gophergas
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To: jonrick46

Any fixed barrier has flaws — all must be actively monitored and patroled.


23 posted on 11/15/2007 2:30:50 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Fred Thompson)
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To: ryan71

That’s just one section. Here:

http://www.minutemanhq.com/~video/BF/PDF/borderfence9.pdf


24 posted on 11/15/2007 2:31:36 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Fred Thompson)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Again, we need something objective — not something that comes straight from the Minuteman website, especially since they’re the ones being accused of wrongdoing here. And the fact that they’re touting their “cow fence” on their site as something worth bragging about is rather troubling to me.

I’ve personally built plenty of 5-strand barbed-wire fences (although mine were electric), and I can tell you that they’re extremely easy to put up — and they do next to nothing when it comes to stopping humans from crossing. Someone might get a slight scratch, or they could tear their clothes... but that’s about the extent of it.


25 posted on 11/15/2007 2:37:32 PM PST by gophergas
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To: pillut48

Re-read the article...not the same fence.


26 posted on 11/15/2007 2:40:47 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: MeanWestTexan; All

One thing missing from all the references: How much “real” security fence has the organization actually put up? If we knew that and how much money the organization has raised, it would be meaningful. Best I can tell of all the photos and videos, not more than a couple hundred feet, but that may just be because of poor photo angles, etc.


27 posted on 11/15/2007 2:48:53 PM PST by JewishRighter
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To: Iron Munro
You mean the one Duncan Hunter wrote the bill for and got passed through congress!?!?!?
28 posted on 11/15/2007 2:58:30 PM PST by logic (Support Duncan Hunter for the 2008 GOP presidential nominee. He is THE conservative candidate!!)
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To: Cobra64
This just what I was implying in post #6. This Minuteman fence is a show fence that has little practical application. Also, the construction methods (square posts instead of tubular steel and lateral support (good for foot holds and ladder supports) make for lots of unnecessary welding that is not a good thing in remote areas.
29 posted on 11/15/2007 3:05:48 PM PST by jonrick46
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To: gophergas

The minutemen are using the wrong strategy. They could make money by solving this problem.

Here’s my standard post. We can do something about this.

RICO —Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, and can include nonprofit associations.

Here’s what I’ve been pushing: it’s time to file Racketeering, Influencing, and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) lawsuits.

RICO lawyers could turn it around in a few years and MAKE MONEY at the same time. I’m surprised they haven’t done it already.

In the absence of enforcement, we can get the word out in the meantime that there is money to be made in filing RICO lawsuits against employers who hire illegal aliens.

Employers would have no trouble shutting down the border if they could get sued by someone under the RICO statutes for hiring these people in the first place. The next time an illegal alien kills someone in a drunk driving accident or somesuch thing, I’m going to point out that the victim’s family might be able to seek compensation from the employer under these statutes in the hopes that it would catch on. If this did catch on, would see such a swift backlash against illegal immigration that no employer would go near these people and they’ll all simply want to go back home.

Today’s thread:
Why the smart money is on Duncan Hunter
Self ^ | 11/11/07 | Kevmo

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926032/posts
Posted on 11/15/2007 3:43:17 AM PST by Kevmo


30 posted on 11/15/2007 4:54:06 PM PST by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq ó via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: Republican Wildcat

My bad! Still—the durn GOVT. fence oughta have been built by now!! >:-(


31 posted on 11/15/2007 11:14:55 PM PST by pillut48 (CJ in TX --Soccer Mom and proud RUSH REPUBLICAN! WIN, FRED, WIN!!!)
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To: jonrick46

At least THEY ARE TRYING.

More than I can say for President Bush. :*(


32 posted on 11/15/2007 11:15:29 PM PST by pillut48 (CJ in TX --Soccer Mom and proud RUSH REPUBLICAN! WIN, FRED, WIN!!!)
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To: pillut48
We must see the complexity of assembling the contractors necessary to successfully implement a boarder fence. This fence will have high tech components, which to those with limited technical understanding, will have difficulty following. I am certain that the Minutman effort falls short of the practical elements to make it a viable solution. For a window into what is involved in a successful high tech fence, check this link:

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=14552

33 posted on 11/16/2007 9:48:13 AM PST by jonrick46
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To: pillut48

Agree wholeheartedly. We’re being invaded by a hostile nation, and hardly anyone’s doing anything about it. It’s shameful.


34 posted on 11/16/2007 12:03:26 PM PST by gophergas
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To: Spunky; All

Simcox, all this money for a ‘cow fence’? I should know.
Where did the donated money go, for only this ??!!!?
Something’s very fishy.
I am a supporter of CLOSED REGULATED US borders. It’s past time to have this current outlaw condition to continue as it is. Our society, infrastructure and cities can’t handle illegal immigration ANYMORE. I have been in the frontlines, public protests, call-in campaignes, and in several ‘secure the borders’ groups for many years now.
Something’s very fishy.
Friend’s of the Border Patrol group has had it’s political problems with it’s leader and it’s disappearing donated funds.
Something’s very fishy.
Mr. Glilchrist (MM) supporting Huckabee.
Something’s very fishy.
Joe Turner’s, (Save Our State) another failed run for political office and all his failed intitiatives in the past. Falling out with Jim Gilchrist and other ‘secure the borders’ groups like No More Invasion and such. Chelene Nightengale and Don Silva scary aversion to new ideas and street activist actions comming from general members.
Something’s very fishy.
Dennis Slater, (No More Invasion) with his wholesale forum censorship and close personal retention of a ring of unthinking ‘yes-men’ in that mindless fifedom with gleeful hatchetman of general ‘unrulely’ members, Don Silva.
Something’s very fishy.
I am very confused.

I read this somewhere, and I agree with this ‘Op Ed’ piece. It bears re-posting...
QUOTE “Presently, I am truly beginning to believe the groups fighting the illegal alien menace is one big ego club for it’s leaders and that if you disagree or question anything about it; you are immediately attacked, ostracized and made an outcast. Often several ‘secure the borders’ groups staff’s well-known Internet public forum banning rules are corrupted/adapted and not followed by staff. No forum staff warnings are given to some ‘special hard-case’ active ‘secure the borders’ members that the staff personally doesn’t like. One simple initial ‘one week’ bans are secretly and unethically converted into ‘BANNED FOR LIFE’. All the while, the oblivious general member learns of the new LIFE BAN later. It is clearly an excuse for corrupt egotisitc staff to get rid of ‘too’ different thinking general members. If this keeps up the ‘secure the borders’ groups will lose beneficial new ideas & new activists. The irony is currently that several ‘secure the borders’ group’s staff is now crying out to general members to get more involved with posting more ideas and more people participating more public activities.
Why?
When active idea-driven members speak out (too) much, the ego driven staff will quickly ban you from getting too much of the public forum ‘spotlight’. These ‘secure the borders’ groups staff are making this a petty popularity contest and proving it with their immature words and actions against consistantly beneficial long-time members, who are routinely banned off the forums for silly personality conflicts. This is just a sample of the staff unethical dealings. There are even MORE problems in these groups. If general members contact staffers for assistance or for help with other abusive club members, general members get very little assistance or get several conflicting advice on their problems. Or general members are told that the ‘secure the borders’ groups don’t have ‘a staff’ to straighten out these problems. That’s strange because the very people who says there is no staff are routinely quoted and identified in the new’s articles as ‘staff media spokesperson or public event co-odinator’. Of in another instance, the group’s leaders (who says there is no staff) then order other general members around in accomplishing club activities. Clearly, the mythical ‘staff’ are accomplishing group responsibilites and events for the betterment of club. There are even MORE problems. A general member could only hope that most members do NOT believe this saying, “Go along to get along and the end justifies ANY means”, philosophy. People are beginning to believe that illegal immigration movement leaders(like this) want and need general supporters who don’t rock the boat. That is NOT what the mission needs or what ethical people seeking an end to the illegal alien problem want.”
UNQUOTE

Something’s very fishy.
I am a supporter of CLOSED REGULATED US borders. It’s past time to have this current outlaw condition to continue as it is. Our society, infrastructure and cities can’t handle illegal immigration ANYMORE. I have been in the frontlines, public protests, call-in campaignes, and in several ‘secure the borders’ groups for many years now. They should clean up their act and stay extremely ethical on these matters. To NOT do so, only corrupts us and what we are fighting for.


35 posted on 12/14/2007 1:19:00 PM PST by cowboy_code (Note for visitors at Arafat's grave - first dance, THEN pee.)
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To: cowboy_code

Go to the link in #4 and click on the video link.

I’m thinking the barbed wire fence was set up to keep animals from wandering into the area where the 14 ft fence is being built. Maybe that will be replaced by another 14 ft fence after they finish the one they building now.


36 posted on 12/14/2007 1:35:06 PM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: savedbygrace

Got a still photo or SOMETHING?
Were’s the fence?
All this money and not even a PHOTO of the fence preparations or anything?
It doesn’t figure when the MM folks do so much over promotion on the least little progress of their movement.
Till I see or it is independantly proven, I’m very confused and very skeptical.
Too many people are in this matter for their own selfish reasons and to make a buck off politically active folks.
Such corruption is just making people more cynical about getting involved in any group to correct the present broken system.


37 posted on 12/15/2007 11:37:10 AM PST by cowboy_code (Note for visitors at Arafat's grave - first dance, THEN pee.)
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To: jonrick46

Why do the cameras sweep 360 degrees? If there is a barrier, they should be able to accomplish their mission with a smaller sweep.


38 posted on 12/15/2007 11:52:59 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: cowboy_code

So clicking on the video didn’t work for you? All kinds of video of them building the fence, and the video production wasn’t done by the MM.

Or is your mind already made up and you’d rather not look at the video?


39 posted on 12/15/2007 12:33:46 PM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: Smokin' Joe
The cameras operators would have the capability of tracking the cameras 360 degrees by remote control to watch anyone in proximity to the fence.
40 posted on 12/15/2007 11:10:49 PM PST by jonrick46
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To: cowboy_code
Something’s very fishy.

"Bogus arguments are a tip-off that you wouldn't buy the real reasons for what someone is doing."
--Thomas Sowell

41 posted on 12/16/2007 6:35:03 PM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: savedbygrace

Very skeptical.
Too many people are in this matter for their own selfish reasons and to make a buck off politically active folks.
Such overt corruption is just making people more cynical about getting involved in any group to correct the present broken system.


42 posted on 12/17/2007 12:05:51 PM PST by cowboy_code (Note for visitors at Arafat's grave - first dance, THEN pee.)
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To: Don Joe

You can fool some of the people all of the time
And you can fool all of the people some of the time
But most of the time they’ll just make fools of themselves,
and save you the trouble.


43 posted on 12/17/2007 12:13:15 PM PST by cowboy_code (Note for visitors at Arafat's grave - first dance, THEN pee.)
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To: cowboy_code

You seem to be saying, “Who ya gonna believe, me or your lyin’ eyes?”

The evidence is right there in the Nat Geo video, but you refuse to acknowledge it.

Buh bye.


44 posted on 12/17/2007 12:19:10 PM PST by savedbygrace (SECURE THE BORDERS FIRST (I'M YELLING ON PURPOSE))
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To: All
This is supposed to be just one section. Here: http://www.minutemanhq.com/~video/BF/PDF/borderfence9.pdf

And here is the National Geo Minuteman fence section Image hosted by National Geographic

Where's the razor wire, ditches, and all? I still looks not as formitable as the old Federal airfield welded steel cargo section fence. It certainly looks as 'passible' as the old federal fence. And we already know that old welded cargo section international boundry fence has it's major problems. I see little upgrade in materials or design as promised.

45 posted on 12/18/2007 5:23:56 PM PST by cowboy_code (Note for visitors at Arafat's grave - first dance, THEN pee.)
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