Dramatic 911 call from right before shooting released (Audio at link)

KTRK ^ | 11/15/07 | KTRK

[tlb]

PASADENA, TX) - A dramatic 911 call from the Pasadena man who allegedly shot and killed two men accused of burglarizing his neighbor has been released. The dispatcher tried to talk him out of it.

At about 2pm Wednesday, Joe Horn called 911 from inside his Pasadena home. He says he saw two men break into his neighbor's house. Horn tells police that he is armed with a shotgun.

"Hurry up, man. Catch these guys, will ya? I ain't gonna let them go, I'm gonna be honest with ya," said Horn on the 911 call. "I'm not gonna let them go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this (expletive)."

Horn and the dispatcher spent more than seven minutes on the phone, much of that with the dispatcher trying to convince Horn not to go outside.

"I'm gonna shoot, I'm gonna shoot," said Horn.

"Stay inside the house and don't go out there, OK?" responded the dispatcher. "It's not worth shooting someone over this."

"I don't want to, but if I go out there to see what the hell is going on, what choice do I have?" said Horn.

"I don't want you to go out there. I asked if you could see anything out there," said the dispatcher.

Horn tells the dispatcher that he understands his rights and even makes reference to the September 1 expansion that gives homeowners greater protection from prosecution should they choose to confront someone breaking into their home.

Before he can be convinced otherwise, Horn tells police he sees the burglars coming out of his house.

"He's coming out of the window right now," said Horn to the 911 dispatcher. "I gotta go, buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window."

"Don't, don't , don't go out the door. Mr. Horn? Mr. Horn?" said the dispatcher.

"(Expletive), they just stole something," said Horn to the dispatcher. "I'm sorry. I ain't gonna let them get away with this. They got a bag of something. I'm doing it."

The dispatcher can't stop Horn, who takes the phone with him as he goes outside.

"Move, you're dead," Horn, who took the phone outside with him, could be heard saying to the suspects.

Then three gunshots could be heard.

Horn admits later on the 911 call that he did, in fact, fire those shots. The names of the two men shot have not yet been released pending identification and notification of their next of kin. Horn has not been arrested or charged with any crime. A police investigation is still underway. This case likely will end up in the hands of a Harris County grand jury.

[tlb]

Not the run of the mill homeowner kills burglar story. He went outside after them when 911 had told him to stay put. No life was threatened when he acted, but on the positive side that town has two fewer burglars. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Moral, don't take a television set to a gunfight.

[supercat]

“There are four kinds of Homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy.” — Ambrose Gwinett Bierce

[phrogphlyer]

Does it have to be justifiable to be praiseworthy?

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Over seven minutes didn’t give the police time enough to get there?

Pasadena police used to be faster and meaner.

[beaversmom]

Oh well, the hazards of home invasion in the U.S. I will say this—Mr. Horn has got some big, brass ones. I wouldn’t want to mess with him.

[FreedomCalls]

He went outside after them when 911 had told him to stay put. No life was threatened when he acted

It doesn't matter that his life was not threatened. In Texas you are fully justified in the use of deadly force to protect your property from theft in the night and you can also use deadly force to protect someone else's proptery from theft in the night.

From the Texas Penal Code concerning the use of deadly force to protect property:

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property

[beaversmom]

Mr. Horn mentions that they were doing this in the “broad daylight”. Do you know how this affects it?

[chuckles]

I’m about as second amendment as you can get, but this could be bad because it was daylight and the cop told him not to go outside. You can do almost anything you want if it’s dark in Texas. The homeowner wants to say the guy came in his yard so he had to do it, but the cop will say he shouldn’t have confronted him in the first place. I would acquit if I was on the jury, but I can’t be on all of them. These days, he could be in big trouble.( even in Texas)

[Thumper1960]

Mr. Horn did the right thing. Any burglar who’d be brazen enough to act in his criminal manner in “broad daylight” is one who hasn’t any fear of repercussions.

[beaversmom]

I’m just asking as far as legality goes. I’d hate to see Mr. Horn have to do time over this.

[Thumper1960]

I refer you to post #6.

[beaversmom]

Well the poster specifically mentioned it applying to night time so that’s why I was a little confused.

[Proud_texan]

The article says 2pm but it'll depend almost entirely on the DA. Regardless of the time of day/night if the DA is a Ronnie Earle type he could be in for a legal grind even if the jury eventually lets him off (as many juries do in Texas).

Or if the DA understands the world it'll go before the grand jury and no further.

[RhoTheta]

Ping

[SWAMPSNIPER]

Well, he told them not to move!

[austrian]

Well, he told them not to move!

---

Correct but he fired instantly so i suggest that he wanted
to kill those burglars anyway.

[SWAMPSNIPER]

Wasn’t there, can’t say, but they probably moved.

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

He did the wrong thing: discussing the shooting with the 911 operator beforehand. Almost certainly every syllable admissible in court. Laws don’t count like they used to, it will be up to a prosecutor, a judge, and a jury. He’ll be made to suffer.
Right thing would have been to clam up. (And go hunting.)

[raybbr]

Gale: All right, ya hayseeds, it's a stick-up. Everybody freeze. Everybody down on the ground.
Feisty Hayseed: Well, which is it, young feller? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? Mean to say, if'n I freeze, I can't rightly drop. And if'n I drop, I'm a-gonna be in motion. You see...
Gale: Shut up!
Feisty Hayseed: Okay then.
Gale: Everybody down on the ground!
Evelle: Y'all can just forget that part about freezin' now.

[austrian]

you are right. it´s difficult to tell what exactly happened if not an eyewitness, but it would be interessting how they moved. did they run away or did they just move their head in his dirrection? (which would be normal if someone shouts at you all at once). but at all i would not want to be his neighbor. that´s for shure!
excuse my english

[from occupied ga]

but this could be bad because it was daylight and the cop told him not to go outside

911 operators are not police.

[from occupied ga]

Any burglar who’d be brazen enough to act in his criminal manner in “broad daylight”

More burgularies occur during the day than at night. (people away at work/school/etc.)

[SWAMPSNIPER]

I am happy when my neighbors watch out for my property, and I do the same for them. All the fault is on the burglars, they got what they asked for.

[LonePalm]

I wish we could import that bit of law to NJ.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[Syllojism]

I think you’re incorrect about being legally able to use deadly force to protect another’s property. The law you quoted requires that 9.41 be satisfied first, and 9.41 specifically states that you must either be in lawful possession of the property or you’ve just been unlawfully dispossessed of it. Either way, the biggest legal problem is going to be the fact that you’re only justified in using necessary force, and he’s on tape saying he’s going to go shoot first and ask questions later, and the guys were unarmed.

[WL-law]

“It will be interesting to see how this plays out.”

I think you can safely assume that its not going to turn out well for Mr, Horn.

He did NOT have the rights of a homeowner in this case — it wasn’t his home.

You can argue that he DOES have the right to make a citizen’s arrest, based on general common law principles, but he has to stay carefully within the authority that the police have, otherwise he would be liable for false imprisonment and, here, for much worse.

[WL-law]

Ah! This happened in Texas — I saw Pasadena and assumed California. Well, Horn’s chances just improved dramatically!!

[Flintlock]

I would LOVE to have this guy as a neighbor.
I’d buy him a CASE of double-ought buckshot, too!
Mebbie two cases.

[chuckles]

....."911 operators are not police.".....

They wear the uniform in many Texas cities. I don't personally know about Pasadena. I worked on the 911 equipment (Mars)for the phone company in many small towns in East Texas before I retired.

[P8riot]

Looks to me like he was desperately trying to get the cops to come out, at least to prevent him from shooting the guys, otherwise he'd have called them after the fact.

It's kinda like the story of the guy that calls the cops to report someone is burglarizing his workshop, and 15 minutes later (cops still not there) call and tells them "nevermind, just come pick up the bodies." They are there within a minute after that.

[from occupied ga]

They wear the uniform in many Texas cities

That may be true in Texas. Not true here. Don't go to the police academy, aren't sworn etc.

[from occupied ga]

He did NOT have the rights of a homeowner in this case

did you read post #6?

[af_vet_rr]

Any burglar who’d be brazen enough to act in his criminal manner in “broad daylight” is one who hasn’t any fear of repercussions.

Actually a lot of theft/burglary is committed in the daytime when people aren't home. A lot of burglars do not like breaking in to homes at night, for fear of confrontation, unless they are 100% absolutely sure that the homeowners are not there (as in they have knowledge that they've left on vacation or something).

There was an interesting study done on burglars a while back, and the reason why many chose burglary over other forms of theft such as holding up people or stores is that they wanted to avoid confrontation.

[Q_in_Kansas]

This line of the law doesnt say it must be after dark -

(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or

[SwinneySwitch]

Police have not found the families of the dead men, who both are in their 30s. One had identification indicating he was from Puerto Rico, the other had documentation indicating he may have been from Puerto Rico, Colombia or the Dominican Republic, Capt. Corbett said.

Documented illegals?

[FreedomCalls]

Mr. Horn mentions that they were doing this in the “broad daylight”. Do you know how this affects it?

The statute says "theft in the night" and lets "burglary" stand without qualifying it as being required to be at night. So perhaps, and IANAL, use of deadly force against burglary in the day could be defended under the statute.

[FreedomCalls]

I think you’re incorrect about being legally able to use deadly force to protect another’s property. The law you quoted requires that 9.41 be satisfied first, and 9.41 specifically states that you must either be in lawful possession of the property or you’ve just been unlawfully dispossessed of it.

You don't think the neighbor was in lawful possession of the property in his house?

Either way, the biggest legal problem is going to be the fact that you’re only justified in using necessary force, and he’s on tape saying he’s going to go shoot first and ask questions later, and the guys were unarmed.

The statute allows deadly force "to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property."

[SwinneySwitch]

Posted today, Dave.

[chuckles]

From the looks of some of the 300 pounders, I don’t think they went to the academy either.

[af_vet_rr]

Documented illegals?

You are aware that Puerto Rico is a part of the USA, right? I'm not sure where you went to school and would not want to judge you, but trust me, Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States of America.

Now if you are implying that their documents were forged, then that's another story and I see what you are saying.

[Thumper1960]

I guess their desire to avoid confrontation was foiled.

You win some, you lose some. Sometimes, the loss is very valuable.

[Lancey Howard]

Okay, finally listened to the audio. Joe Horn sounded more irate that burglars were getting away than anything else. He sounded nervous to me, but not scared. So he went out and killed the scum. Fine by me. The guy’s a good neighbor.

[Lancey Howard]

Police have not found the families of the dead men, who both are in their 30s.

Wow. You would think that after 22+ years of stealing, these guys would be more careful.

[kcvl]

In portraying Joe Horn as a victim of circumstances, lawyer and longtime friend Tom Lambright called the 61-year-old computer consultant “a good family man” who has been devastated by the Wednesday afternoon burglary and shooting.

Killed in the incident in the 7400 block of Timberline were Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston.

Each had a minor previous brush with the law. Records show DeJesus was charged with failure to identify himself to a police officer in July 2004. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 20 days in jail. Ortiz was charged with possession of marijuana in July 2005, but it was later dismissed.

[Arrowhead1952]

I looked for this yesterday but missed it. Someone had posted the link on the Texas message board.

[Sudetenland]

I would love to live next-door to him. If all neighbors were as responsible and protective as this guy, crime would cease to occur.

Here in Texas, we understand that simple fact. Our Founding Fathers believed that the right to own property was the fundamental right and thus the right to protect that property is fundamental.

Criminals prey on the weak and those unable to defend themselves. That is why the crime-rate drops everywhere a right to concealed carry law passes. If a criminal thinks his victim might be armed, he is much less likely to commit the criminal act.

This man is my nominee for "Neighbor of the Year." He is a hero.

[Smokin' Joe]

It was not 30 seconds after the shots were fired that the dispatcher was telling the guy that he 'has several officers out there, some not in uniform and did not want any of his officers to get shot'

Where were these guys when the shooting went down, and why did the dispatcher not inform the property owner that they were on the scene, if they in fact were?

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

The only time I saw was the 911 call where the dispatcher kept him on the phone for over 7 seconds.

Pasadena police used to be a lot faster and meaner.

[Smokin' Joe]

Seven Minutes!

I listened to the audio, and in the feed it was less than a minute after the shooting the dispatcher was going on about his officers outside and not to shoot them.

If that was real time and unedited, there was little time between there being 'a number of officers outside on the scene, some not in uniform'.

If he really wanted to prevent the shooting, all he had to do was identify an unmarked unit and tell the guy they were going to follow the thieves to break up a ring of thieves, or tell the guy he had people on the scene--he did neither.

[from occupied ga]

Sometimes, the loss is very valuable.

At least to the rest of the community ;-) Just hard working hispanic immigrants trying to chase the American dream.