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In Paul They Trust (The Feds May Differ)
Washington Post ^ | 11/17/07 | Alec MacGillis

Posted on 11/17/2007 3:23:45 AM PST by xtinct

The ardent supporters of Rep. Ron Paul, the iconoclastic Texas libertarian whose campaign for the presidency is threatening to upend the battle for the Republican nomination, got word yesterday of a new source of outrage and motivation: reports of a federal raid on a company that was selling thousands of coins marked with the craggy visage of their hero.

Federal agents on Thursday raided the Evansville, Ind., headquarters of the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and Internal Revenue Code (Norfed), an organization of "sound money" advocates that for the past decade has been selling a private currency it calls "Liberty Dollars." The company says it has put into circulation more than $20 million in Liberty Dollars, coins and paper certificates it contends are backed by silver and gold stored in Idaho, are far more reliable than a U.S. dollar and are accepted for use by a nationwide underground economy.

snip...................................... In the affidavit, an FBI special agent states that he is investigating Norfed for federal violations including "uttering coins of gold, silver, or other metal," "making or possessing likeness of coins," mail fraud, wire fraud, money laundering and conspiracy. "The goal of Norfed is to undermine the United States government's financial systems by the issuance of a non-governmental competing currency for the purpose of repealing the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code," he states. snip....

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 911truthers; birkenstockers; bogusbucks; coins; counterfeit; cutandrun; davidduke; fbi; fiatmoney; iraq; johnbirchsociety; kkkooks4paul; moonies; mrspaulsshrimp; nazis; paul; paulbearers; paulestinians; paulsheehan2008; paultards; peacecreeps; ronpaul; rontards; scampi

An Indiana group was sending out its "Ron Paul Dollars" when federal agents stepped in.

Ron Paul gets the award for being one of the more fascinating and colorful people who've run for president since Ross Perot's bid in the 90s.

1 posted on 11/17/2007 3:23:47 AM PST by xtinct
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To: xtinct

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I suspect Libertarians are for open borders. No?


2 posted on 11/17/2007 3:39:55 AM PST by kjo
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To: xtinct
Actually the only award Ron Paul gets is the one for being the most intellectually incoherent reckless demagogue who has ever run for US President.

Simple question for you Paulbots.

HOW and WHAT would Ron Paul do as President?

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/

Here is his “issues” page. Not a word on what or how he would do anything. Just a bunch of slogans screaming bile at everything and everyone. No idea, no plans, just a bunch of slogans designed stictly to push the emotions of the political fringes run together and called an agenda.

For people who scream so loudly about the US Constitution, the Paulbots demonstrate pretty much a total lack of any understanding of how our Constitutional Republic works.

3 posted on 11/17/2007 3:50:24 AM PST by MNJohnnie (FUND THE WAR! DEFUND THE PORK!)
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To: kjo
clueless...I'm conservative... America (nation), Pledge, Constitution, etc.

I'm mostly referring to the fact that his followers have minted his own coin, his campaign collected $4 million dollars on the Internet yesterday, and he apparently has a very large young group of supporters (like Howard Dean).

4 posted on 11/17/2007 3:50:44 AM PST by xtinct (I was the next door neighbor kid's imaginary friend.)
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To: xtinct
"he apparently has a very large young group of supporters (like Howard Dean)."

I was musing over the same thing. What's the point of touring high schools and rallying young students who can't even vote, and haven't a clue how our constitutional republic works?

Like Howard Dean, come election day his ballot box will be empty.

5 posted on 11/17/2007 4:01:05 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: kjo

Nope. They are just as divided on that as the GOP is. Same with Life. Same with the War. Peter Swartz of the Ayn Rand Foundation has several articles on War and Morality, the Just Cause for War and why America IS the World’s only Policeman. Yet Paul disagrees with that one on Globalism theory. So, no not even Big L Libertarians agree on the big three issues in 2008.


6 posted on 11/17/2007 4:02:24 AM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: Nathan Zachary
agree Nathan... his ballot box will be empty... if he doesn't drop out first..

But I think it's amusing when quirky people run for president

7 posted on 11/17/2007 4:14:40 AM PST by xtinct (I was the next door neighbor kid's imaginary friend.)
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To: RachelFaith

Seems as if L has become a sink for all sorts of recalcitrance. Lack of respect for any authority is their credo.
Haiti is, by choice, the only functioning anarchy in the West. When Aristide abolished the military he severed the final thread of respect for authority. Haitians prefer no government to any government.
Would Libertarians prefer that we model ourselves on that sinkhole?


8 posted on 11/17/2007 4:17:03 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (here come I, gravitas in tow.)
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To: xtinct

Does anybody remember the name of the independent candidate for governor in Nevada back in the ‘70s who advocated Nevada having it’s own currency?


9 posted on 11/17/2007 4:20:12 AM PST by samtheman (Fred Thompson '08)
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To: MNJohnnie

slogans?

You mean like “fuzzy math”....”bring it on”.....”comprehensive immigration reform”...”evildoers”.....oh...and “compassionate conservatism”?

You’re too funny.


10 posted on 11/17/2007 4:26:32 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: SJackson; Allegra; mnehrling; ejonesie22; drpix; lormand; Petronski; darkwing104; Army Air Corps; ..
"A-[blank]-and-his-[blank]-are-soon-[blank]" PING! ;)
11 posted on 11/17/2007 4:26:48 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("Ron Paul and his flaming antiwar spam monkeys can Kiss my Ass!!" -- Jim Robinson, 09/30/07)
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To: xtinct
The company says it has put into circulation more than $20 million in Liberty Dollars, coins and paper certificates it contends are backed by silver and gold stored in Idaho, are far more reliable than a U.S. dollar and are accepted for use by a nationwide underground economy.

This needs to be stopped if this is true.

12 posted on 11/17/2007 4:30:23 AM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: xtinct

You might know the guy’s name would be Nuthaus...Oh! Sorry Not...Nothaus.


13 posted on 11/17/2007 4:31:59 AM PST by Sudetenland (Liberals love "McCarthyism," they just believe he was targeting the wrong side.)
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To: xtinct
And we all remember the result of that candidacy, don’t we?? (Can we really afford Clinton’s return to the white house???)
14 posted on 11/17/2007 4:38:38 AM PST by MCCRon58 (A man unwilling to fight for freedom and liberty, deserve neither. (Ain't much of a man, either))
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To: xtinct
The official Ron Paul coin


15 posted on 11/17/2007 4:39:46 AM PST by april15Bendovr
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To: MNJohnnie
Ron Paul is the living embodiment of the phrase “Those who can, do. Those who can’t do, teach. And those who don’t do either, criticize!”
16 posted on 11/17/2007 4:41:42 AM PST by MCCRon58 (A man unwilling to fight for freedom and liberty, deserve neither. (Ain't much of a man, either))
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To: xtinct

That’s one ugly coin. They should have gotten JSG Boggs to design it.


17 posted on 11/17/2007 4:43:22 AM PST by publiusF27
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To: april15Bendovr

Ron Paul: "D'OHHH! Why are my slavishly fawning and servile camp followers all such complete and utter tools -- ?!?"

18 posted on 11/17/2007 4:44:37 AM PST by KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle ("Ron Paul and his flaming antiwar spam monkeys can Kiss my Ass!!" -- Jim Robinson, 09/30/07)
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To: xtinct

As I stated in the other thread about the same issue: I guess they use “Ron Paul Dollar” because Canadians already have “The Loonie”?

Oh, and if by “fascinating and colorful” you mean “insane, with moonie-like followers,” you are correct about Ron Paul.


19 posted on 11/17/2007 4:49:39 AM PST by Salo
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To: MNJohnnie

MNJohnnie wrote: “Here is his “issues” page. Not a word on what or how he would do anything.”


http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/

Each issue has a drill-down link to a discussion of proposed solutions. Here’s one:

Border Security and Immigration Reform

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.

Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.

No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.

No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.

End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.


So yes, he does propose either solution or approaches (the FedGov can’t outright solve everything, nor should it, but can sometimes change its approach to things.


20 posted on 11/17/2007 4:52:59 AM PST by Puddleglum
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To: Salo
What is insane is bankrupting our country by overspending and spreading ourselves too thin around the world, having to borrow from China, continuing to elect corrupt, status-quo globalist RINOs, just to keep out the other corrupt, status-quo globalist Dem, not caring that our sovereignty is eroding away, or that the constitution is being trampled, and not caring about the direction this country is heading in.

I think the ones who have no problem with continuing the status-quo are the ones who are insane. Or worse.

21 posted on 11/17/2007 5:09:21 AM PST by incindiary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJDqneN4weE)
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To: xtinct

It should be no surprise that the Fed’s would stop anyone attempting to offer a more secure alternative to the Dollar. If this group has done nothing illegal, a new crime will be made up for them.


22 posted on 11/17/2007 5:52:01 AM PST by live+let_live
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To: xtinct
The ardent supporters of Rep. Ron Paul ... got word yesterday of a new source of outrage and motivation

They got that part right. Notice the article is a little sloppy though. They failed to identify Ron Paul as a Republican, for instance. I'm not sure if they're trying to help/hurt him with that or just being sloppy.

This is a rehash of WaPo's blog entry. Apparently, they have learned that proper articles on Ron Paul magically draw the Paulian Horde, driving up their traffic and ad revenue. LOL. In Ron Paul Coins, Federal Agents Don't Trust (WP)
23 posted on 11/17/2007 5:57:16 AM PST by George W. Bush (Apres moi, le deluge.)
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To: Nathan Zachary
Lately I cannot stop being amused at the number of my fellow Freepers who claim to know Ron Paul's platform and recent activities, while then proceeding to display their utter ignorance of the same. One would think Freepers would be quite pleased that someone is out there motivating large groups of Internet-savvy young people towards the Republican Party, while understanding that what motivates young people is often quite different from what motivates older people; alas, it seems too many "conservative" Freepers would rather have a smaller, older, less electable Republican Party.

As a businessman, at a minimum I'm astonished more people from the so-called "capitalist" faction of our country aren't familiar with the concept of loss-leader marketing during an election year... even Ron Paul has expressed his utter surprised to have done this well! How unfortunate that some of us have found a new reason to hold our own in emotional contempt, without bothering to use a little reasonable analysis.
24 posted on 11/17/2007 6:20:07 AM PST by Mudcat (What would Reagan do?)
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To: Puddleglum; MNJohnnie
Thank you Puddleglum, you just proved MNJohnnie's point, there are now specifics as to how. This, for example, is no a how: Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals
that, is a concept. A how would include specific steps such as complete funding of border fence, move xx troops to xx area of the border (oops, Paul doesn't believe in moving troops on the border and said a border fence wasn't that important.. next).. specifics would include steps as to how you would control entry, what ID do you verify and ensure it isn't fake, how do you work with other countries to check backgrounds, how do you track people once they are in (oops, I think that goes against Paul's privacy concerns.. but that's for later.)How about funding this? What specific path would you take for funding the fence, troops, ids and background checks? Would we use private or public contractors for the work?

Everything you posted in the 'discussion page' is exactly what MNJohnnie said, nothing more than slogans with no specific step by step approach for anything. There are no details, just rhetoric.

25 posted on 11/17/2007 7:13:08 AM PST by mnehring (I am free not to support Ron Paul... Wow, I feel special...)
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Correction: there are now specifics as to how
26 posted on 11/17/2007 7:15:41 AM PST by mnehring (I am free not to support Ron Paul... Wow, I feel special...)
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To: mnehrling; Puddleglum; MCCRon58; taxed2death
And in addition to what you pointed out Mnehrling, Paul has offered no indications at all of HOW he intends to accomplish any of the things he is promising his followers.

See to answer “how” Paul would have to be saying something like this below. The whole problem with him is his whole campaign is based on misdirection and emotional hysteria, not a serious rational discussion of the issues of the day.

Paul might be taken seriously by thinking people if he said something like this instead of merely spewing slogans.

On Federal Spending. Federal Spending is out of control. To put our fiscal house in order my Administration will work with the Congress to pass a Balanced Budget Amendment to the US Constitution. I will work with Congress to abolish base line budgeting, eliminate earmarks, impose strict pay as you go rules for new spending. In my 1st term, I will reduce the federal deficit to zero and return our Govt budget to surplus. To achieve that goal, I will impose a mandatory 2 increase% cap on all executive agencies budgets, require a top to bottom review of all agency functions and reduce or eliminate departments x-y-z.

That is just the 1st step. Serious budget reform can only take place when we reform both the tax code and the systems of entitlements we have created. There has been no serious Social Security or Medicare reform since the systems were created! Obvious a system that is 75 years old in one case, and 40 years old in the other are way over due for an overhaul.

To overhaul these systems I will introduce legislation to the Congress that will privatize the following parts of both the Medicare and Social Security systems...

That is an example of answers that tell us HOW a politician plans to do something. Nothing in Paul’s campaign does any of this. All he does is spew reckless demagoguery based on Talk Radio culled slogans designed to push the emotional hot buttons of a certain fringe segments of the US population Too bad for them we don't elect a President simply for spewing the best sounding rhetoric on this emotional hot button issue or that one. We elect a President on the base of his whole agenda.

27 posted on 11/17/2007 7:47:44 AM PST by MNJohnnie (FUND THE WAR! DEFUND THE PORK!)
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To: MNJohnnie
There you go again, injecting reason. How unconstitutional... ;_)


28 posted on 11/17/2007 8:43:10 AM PST by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: mnehrling

Aw, all candidates talk more about what than how. Paul cites a few bills he had introduced on different issue topics. The question on how he would secure the borders, though, is a good, one a commander-in-chief could actually address rather directly. I will look to see what he has said on it.

As to the thornier issues, resolving all of them depends on building a will to act in Congress, and RP does tap into a will to change ther status quo.

There are many frogs being boiled by the incrementalism of growing government who tell themselves, “it’s just a pleasant hot tub.” But you know, it’s more than hot enough for me right now. That is my impetus for watching this election and sounding out the various candidates (though really, the prez can only do so much). I am tired of safe choice/status quo candidates. With Ron Paul and the others, I ask myself “what’s the best that could happen?/what’s the worst that could happen?” Folks have been pretty vocal here on FR about outlining the worst. I try to dig into the other side.

Ps - Free Pissant!


29 posted on 11/17/2007 9:54:40 AM PST by Puddleglum
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To: All

Printing your own money isn’t as illegal as some think. After all, just what are those “coupons” we get in the mail every day but privately printed (and backed) money? Sure, the value of each of them is minuscule but they add up. Otherwise the companies wouldn’t bother.

Now, we hear that privately minted and backed coins and paper currency are “illegal.” Why? Is it because they are more valuable than the junk distributed by the government-subsidised Federal Reserve?

As usual, after the trumped-up charges against the principals are dropped, the valuables seized by our ever-benificent government will be held until doomsday “for safekeeping.”


30 posted on 11/17/2007 10:34:01 AM PST by oldfart (The most dangerous man is the one who has nothing left to lose.)
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