Posted on 11/18/2007 11:48:44 AM PST by P-40
The Pasadena man who killed two suspected burglars as they left his next-door neighbor's home did not intend to kill them when he stepped outside with his 12-gauge shotgun, his lawyer said Friday.
In portraying Joe Horn as a victim of circumstances, lawyer and longtime friend Tom Lambright called the 61-year-old computer consultant "a good family man" who has been devastated by the Wednesday afternoon burglary and shooting.
Killed in the incident in the 7400 block of Timberline were Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston.
Each had a minor previous brush with the law. Records show DeJesus was charged with failure to identify himself to a police officer in July 2004. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 20 days in jail. Ortiz was charged with possession of marijuana in July 2005, but it was later dismissed.
"He (Horn) was just doing what everyone is supposed to do," Lambright said at a news conference in front of the Houston police memorial near downtown. "He called the police. He was cooperating with them as best he could, trying to give the police the direction of the burglars. He knew there was danger going outside."
Horn ignored repeated instructions from a 911 dispatcher to remain in his home. He told the dispatcher, "I'm not going to let them get away with it. I can't take a chance in getting killed over this. OK? I'm gonna shoot. I'm gonna shoot."
While lawyers and legal experts across the city continued to debate the legality of Horn's actions, he has left town with his family, Lambright said.
"Hopefully he will see a doctor and maybe get a sedative," he said. "He is not well mentally. This has devastated him. Not in his wildest dreams could he fathom this event."
Lambright said Horn, whom he has considered a friend for 41 years, wept inconsolably during their conversations.
"Joe is the absolute opposite of what everyone thinks he is," Lambright said. "He is not a cowboy. He is not physical. He's 61 years old and overweight. He's not confrontational. He's just a good guy."
Lambright read a written statement in which Horn said the killings would "weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased."
Lambright said Horn was a hunter, but kept the shotgun in his pickup "for security."
No firearms in house Horn lives with his daughter and granddaughter and does not keep firearms in the house, his lawyer said.
Lambright said Horn was upstairs working at a computer about 2 p.m. when he heard the sound of breaking glass next door. Horn called 911, engaging in a protracted conversation with the dispatcher, who repeatedly advised him to wait inside until police arrived.
"Mr. Horn, do not go outside the house. You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun," the dispatcher told Horn at one point.
"You wanna make a bet," Horn responded. "I'm gonna kill them. They're gonna get away."
Legal opinions conflict Lambright contended that Horn was startled to find the burglars just 15 feet from his front door when he stepped onto his porch. "He was petrified at that point," the lawyer said. "You hear him say, 'I'll shoot. Stop!' They jumped. Joe thought they were coming for him. It's a self-defense issue."
Attorneys and legal experts said Horn's defense probably will be based on state law that allows people to use deadly force to protect neighbors' property.
"If you see someone stealing your neighbor's property, you can get involved and help to stop it," said Sandra Guerra Thompson, a law professor at the University of Houston Law Center.
Others disagreed.
The statutes that allow people to use deadly force to stop a burglary appear to require that the incident be occurring at night, said Craig Jett, a Dallas criminal defense attorney and president of the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyer's Association.
"It can't be during the day," Jett said.
Experts said that a grand jury may sympathize with Horn. Some people believe that you should be able to protect your neighborhood, said Anthony Osso, a Houston criminal defense attorney.
Osso said that Horn's defense might be that he wanted to prevent the robbers from leaving until police arrived, but they tried to flee and he shot them.
"His best scenario is that he went out to use the threat of deadly force," Osso said. "But they came at him on his own property."
Osso said Horn's 911 call does not tell the whole story about the shooting. Investigators will need information about where the suspects were shot and if they had stopped when Horn ordered them not to move.
"Some people on the grand jury will sympathize with him," said Adam Gershowitz, a law professor at South Texas College of Law. "Maybe he shouldn't have done this, but he was acting in a way a lot of people feel."
But that does not mean he won't be charged, Gershowitz added.
"There's a reason we don't let people take the law into their own hands," he said. "We have a police force for that. As an established society, we believe we are better off with an authorized police force that has standards and training rather than untrained vigilantes."
A transcript of the 911 call suggests Horn intended to do what he felt necessary to stop the burglars. Despite a concerted effort by the dispatcher to persuade him to let police deal with the break-in, Horn was insistent on trying keep them from getting away.
"I don't want you going outside, Mr. Horn," the dispatcher said.
"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn said. "You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."
Seconds later three shotgun blasts are heard.
Praise for dispatcher Experts who reviewed a recording of the call at the Chronicle's request said the dispatcher handled the call professionally and did all he could to defuse the situation until police arrived.
"He was doing everything he could to 'normalize' the conversation and not agitate the caller any further," said Sue Pivetta, a training consultant from Sumner, Wash. "Trust me when I say that he was indeed showing professional control at the highest level."
Charles Carter, a former police executive in Atlanta who has trained dispatchers for two decades, said the officer who handled Horn's call used proven techniques to dissuade him from leaving his home.
"We teach a technique called repetitive persistence," Carter said. "It needs to be at a level lower than the person calling to try to get him to calm down and listen to you. ... He did an outstanding job and needs to be commended."
Send Mr. Horn his medal and let him get on with his life. Oh, and make sure all the Spanish-language newspapers and media in Harris County and surrounds get a press release on this, so it gets good coverage.
Already posted twice!
What’s he whining about? The gun did it.
I guess it would help had I spelled Pasadena correctly while doing a search. :)
The victim/homeowner in any car-jacking, robbery or burglary (unless a criminal themselves) has risked numerous “occupational hazards” in getting to work, earning a paycheck and their personal version of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Consequently, they have a right, even duty, to defend property honestly acquired.
So, IMHO, it is not an argument over the value of human life over property, as some local Houstonians have proclaimed. It is simply protecting myself, or others, from the predations of worthless people.
Never point a gun at someone unless you intend to kill him.
This gentleman was apparently a victim of the "hold 'em at gunpoint" fantasies of television.
Once you bring a gun into the equation, you had better be prepared to kill the other guy, if only to prevent him from taking it from you and using it on you.
If you can't handle the idea of killing another human being, don't escalate the situation by bringing a gun into it.
That sounds about right. I think the original call was about that long but it was edited for profanity. Sadly, I can see it taking that long to get an officer on the scene.
In CA Mr. Horn would be charged with murder. In TX, he may not be charged at all. Hope he gets off of this.
Right or wrong, criminals need to recognize the danger of their occupation.
Well, if this were up to George Bush, we know where Mr. Horn would be going...
So, they're both "of Houston", huh?
Maybe.
...
"There's a reason we don't let people take the law into their own hands," he said. "We have a police force for that. As an established society, we believe we are better off with an authorized police force that has standards and training rather than untrained vigilantes. "
Defending property against criminals during a burglary is vigilantism?
I think folks are sick to death of having their own and their friend’s property stolen and very little being done about it. Once they get out of your house with your stuff it is very unlikely that anything will be done, and even less likely that you will get your stuff back.
Right or wrong, I think we are going to see more and more of this as people have less and less confidence in the system’s ability to protect them and their property. I don’t feel very sorry for the perps. They knew what they were doing was wrong. And I doubt this was a first offense. The fact that they didn’t have any prior record probably means they hadn’t been caught yet.
susie
“In CA Mr. Horn would be charged with murder.”
Yes. It’s very sad but true that in the Peope’s Republic of California (PRC) the criminals and illegal aliens (same thing) have more rights than anybody else.
Man I’ve got to get myself out of the PRC. Or maybe we can get the PRC out of California.
Anyway, let’s give Mr. Horn a medal and send him on his way. It used to be that people that looked out for their neighbors were appreciated by all.
and since the police department is NOT doing their job we have EVERY right to resort back to vigilante justice.
To shoot someone is hard, but i’d done the same thing. I tell my wife if somebody breaks in, let the dogs give the warning, call 911 if time permits get on the other side of the bed and shoot until the gun goes, click, ckick. I suppose wome whimpy D.A. will try to hang him out to dry.
“I guess it would help had I spelled Pasadena correctly while doing a search”
S t i n k a d e n a
Sorry, used to live near by...
Here in Europe too. he would be in prison an charged with murder.he would get 15-20 years i guess. luck for him this happened in texas.
I wish the best for this guy (I think he’s gonna need it)...
This guy's a jack-ass. The police force takes the law into their own hands? Vigilantes? Untained. Most cops can't even field strip a handgun. They "qualify" once a year?
“The statutes that allow people to use deadly force to stop a burglary appear to require that the incident be occurring at night, said Craig Jett, a Dallas criminal defense attorney and president of the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyer’s Association.
“It can’t be during the day,” Jett said. “
Huh? I have a hard time believing that a law would be written that only covers certain times of the day.
This isn’t fish and game rules for duck hunting!
“The statutes that allow people to use deadly force to stop a burglary appear to require that the incident be occurring at night, said Craig Jett, a Dallas criminal defense attorney and president of the Texas Criminal Defense Lawyer’s Association.”
“”It can’t be during the day,” Jett said.”
That makes good sense, hey looters, no ones allowed to shoot during the day.
I just thank god no one was tasered.
Under sec. 9.43 of the Texas Penal Code, he’s fully and unambiguously justified in defending a neighbor’s property with deadly force.
This jackass got his law degree from a crackerjack box.
"Nightime" justification refers to theft and vandalism. Burlary, rape, murder, robbery, arson, and kidnapping are killing offenses in Texas, day or night.
Caps used to drive home the point. Even a criminal's first killing changes his life forever. Same thing with a soldier's first killing.
Whereas that might have been true at a distant time and in a different place, it is an asinine statement to make today.
That level of "civilization" is a luxury only possible in a small town where everyone knows everyone else, and the "law" can respond in a couple of minutes instead of hours.
The law is not an end in itself, it is a means to an end: the protection of the innocent citizen, and the capture and punishment of criminals. If the "law" can't, or won't, do that I think the oldest and most common law is for the citizen to protect himself and his neighborhood.
A peaceful, non-criminal citizen's home should be inviolate, without qualifications. A snake killed while burglarizing a home deserves killing. For violating the safety of a man's home, not for the TV he's hauling away.
Have you ever seen the book title, Call 911 -- and Die?
There was a reason for that title.
It doesn't matter what he's charged with. If I'm on that jury, he would never be convicted.
I believe absolutely in Jury nullification where necessary.
There. Fixed it for you.
(It ain't vigilante justice.)
I think folks are sick to death of having their own and their friend’s property stolen and very little being done about it.”
____________________________
I think you’re right, Susie.
I don’t know anyone who has had stuff stolen who has gotten any of it back, or had the perps caught, or in fact had the police indicate to them that they had any hope of either outcome.
susie
Agreed
I just wonder about the daytime vs. nighttime issue. That may hurt him but it will be hard to find a jury to convict him.
Not necessarily. Long story short...
My dad, at the time a little older than this guy, seen two crooks break into my brothers farmhouse from his farm. Cornered them with a rifle, shot at their feet to force them to walk out into a field which had a couple of feet of snow on it. When they were in the middle of nowhere, dad called for help. Received a letter of commendation from Sheriff for the capture and solving 7 other cases.
Of course, this was in the Reagan eighties. Dad would have probably been arrested for this now.
Every situation is different is all I'm sayin'.
I called 911 once, due to a domestic disturbance. I live in a rural area and it took the police 1.5 hours to respond. You are responsible for your own safety.
I’m sure your Dad was willing to kill them if necessary.
The gentleman in the story seemed to think that he could confront two men with a gun and not necessarily need to kill them. IMHO, a gun should not be brought into the equation unless the situation is serious enough to justify taking the life of the other person. It should not be waved around as if it were a magic wand that makes other people obey you.
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